USS Hartford Heading Home
USS Hartford (SSN 768) is doing a surface transit home following her collision with USS New Orleans (LPD 18) last month. Here's a Navy Times story about the new post-collision updates, and here's an official Navy story that says the Hartford's COB was relieved prior to the boat getting underway by a temporary relief -- you can read into that what you want. You can also look at this picture of the submarine underway to see the reinforcement they made to the sail -- it's best seen by downloading the hi-res version. (I'll post a close-up of the sail later; I'd do it this morning, but I have an early meeting at work.)
What stories do you have about ridiculously long surface transits?
Update 0643 30 Apr 2009: Sorry for not posting the picture; our main computer that has my photo editing software died, so I'm stuck trying to figure out how to use the laptop with all the kids programs on it. You'll have to just click on the hi-res version linked above and see for yourself.
Off topic, if you just ignore the troll, it makes it easier for me to delete his posts when I get home from work. I hesitate to do so when it would make normal commenter's comments look dumb when they aren't relating to comments that exist anymore. Also, for those who were wondering, since I'm on Blogger, I can't ban any particular people or IP addresses.
Update 1152 30 Apr: A reader sent in a close-up photo of the sail:
posted by Bubblehead at 5:48 AM
113 Comments:
Those poor guys! I hope they packed lots of sun tan lotion and Dramamine!
4/28/2009 6:08 AM
No broom for you.
Rackburn
4/28/2009 6:50 AM
Was there severe Navy budget issues that caused this....the surface transit?
4/28/2009 7:41 AM
Hmmm....problem with watchstanding formality and professionalism and they appoint the EDMC MMCM as COB. Go Master Chief!
4/28/2009 7:44 AM
Why would budget have anything to do with the decision to repair the Hartford at a U.S. shipyard? Seems to me that the decision is based on extent of damage and appropriate repair facilities for that damage.
Carl
4/28/2009 7:45 AM
What the hell is the netting rigged on the bridge? A sunscreen/shade?
They look like something from Gilligan's Island!
Those poor bastards! I hope they stocked up on sunscreen and puke bags.
The only good news is they will be the only boat on the waterfront to return from deployment with tans and not be pastey white!
4/28/2009 7:55 AM
WestPac 79, We were moored at Sattahip Thailand snorkeling 18 hours a day so the nucs could have some time off. After a few days, we noticed smoke coming from the lagging of the outboard diesel exhaust valve. We kept an eye on it but thought it was just getting broken in. I came down the ladder and the other Aganger, WT Housley, pointed around the engine and my jaw dropped. The OOD had sent a Sonar Tech down with a bucket of water and a coffee cup to “cool down” the lagging. The ST was dousing the exhaust valve with cold water. I stopped him sent him on his way.
I contacted all the powers to be that we really needed to look into this but shutting down the diesel meant the nucs would have to start up so we were told to continue snorkeling. Four hours later, I looked around the engine and saw flames coming from the lagging. We called away fire in the diesel and shut down. So here I am, in an EAB, wearing a foul weather jacket for protection, in a space that is 118 degrees, outboard a workbench with a crowbar digging through lagging to put out this fire.
It seems that the shipyard had removed the exhaust valves and put a plywood blank over the opening. When they put the valve back in, they wedged the plywood blank between the exhaust pipe and the hull and lagged over it. When it finally got hot enough, flames.
After the fact, we couldn’t shut the inboard diesel exhaust valve and had to do a surface transit to Subic Bay for repairs. All-in-all, it wasn’t a bad transit and we got to stay in Subic for three weeks.
That Damn Good Looking Aganger From Iowa
4/28/2009 7:57 AM
How would a surface transit have anything to do with the Navys budget? Lets think about this.... it was in a collision and the sail was partially ripped off the hull. Now we'll take into account the effects of sea pressure. Now lets ask the question again..... Why would the ship be conducting a surface transit? HHHMMMMMM....... I don't know.
4/28/2009 8:30 AM
Surface transit all the time on smokeboats with one exception. No big deal. Trim dive every couple of days.
WesPac 70/71 on SS-580. Then skipper loved to snorkel. Standard on three on the pipe. 13 knots, 1.5 inch vacuum in the boat. You dunk the head valve you got about 30 seconds until high vacuum shutdown. Dive team is wrung out after 4 hours. Reality was really didn't help our SOA. We still had to slow down to 1/3 every watch in order to trim-up, and a long slow down period to shoot GDU. Experience taught we did a lot better surfaced that running on the pipe.
Keep a zero bubble..........
DBFTMC(SS)USNRET
4/28/2009 8:34 AM
Watch out for Somali pirates...
4/28/2009 8:39 AM
Any ideas on the three extra appendages on the sail? I'll assume the two forward are trainable hi-res cameras, and I'm GUESSING the one aft is an ARGOS beacon, or something like that?
Things that make ya go "Hmmmmmm".
4/28/2009 9:11 AM
How much would it cost it if they FedEx’d it ....transported it by drydock ship?
If I was the Navy, I would be trying to think of how this would look if somebody else did something stupid on the way home.
4/28/2009 9:47 AM
ret anav
I see what looks like an L band antenna, periscope, radar, NAV ID, and a radio direction finding antenna, but maybe some of the other bubbleheads here can provide more accurate accounts. I'm just a surface warrior that had to learn that stuff for my surface warfare pin.
As for those guys, glad they made it out alive and no one was killed. Hopefully there will be some positives learned from this.
4/28/2009 9:52 AM
Gee Mike, it could've been worse, like one of those unreported reactor incidents we used to hear all the time about from sub sailors who got busted and ended up on our ships.
4/28/2009 9:54 AM
Southbound through the Suez Canal, then up the Gulf of Aqaba to Aqaba, Jordan, so the King of Jordan could have a submarine ride. Pretty non-eventful, but still a couple of days on the surface, with a modified piloting party stationed all the time (me and the ANAV, port & stbd). Then back out to the Red Sea where we could finally submerge...
Yeah, those guys are going to suck it up. Fortunately, I guess you could call this the "calm" season in the North Atlantic. The winter storms are done, and we are still a month away from hurricane season.
4/28/2009 10:02 AM
Was on USS Dallas for her 1,200 nm trip from Autec to New London after the grounding. It was roughest around Cape Hatteras...pretty much everyone who was off-watch was in the rack. I didn't gack, but was plenty messed up.
DBFTMC(SS): Not quite a fair comparison between diesel boats and nukes when it comes to surface-handling. Most diesel boats were designed for primarily being on the surface in terms of hull design and best speed. Round SSN hulls make for a very strong 'sea legs' experience.
4/28/2009 10:31 AM
A huge 9.0 earthquake just occurred, huge, huge, huge!
4/28/2009 10:48 AM
"DBFTMC(SS): Not quite a fair comparison between diesel boats and nukes when it comes to surface-handling. Most diesel boats were designed for primarily being on the surface in terms of hull design and best speed. Round SSN hulls make for a very strong 'sea legs' experience."
The 3 B-girls - what the chief is talking about - have figure-of-rotation hulls just like modern SSNs (and like the original, the diesel powered ALBACORE).
BARBEL was reminded the hard way of the big prob running surfaced in a B-girl: if you don't trim heavy (really heavy) aft, you tend to porpoise down when you hit a big wave. BARBEL went to 140', swept the bridge watch overboard, and killed one guy.
4/28/2009 10:48 AM
Though not a "long" surface transit, I took Sculpin from Groton to Norfolk in late '89 to decom. Weather got sloppy just south of Montauk and never really improved. Worst of it was off of Cape May...not blowing real hard, but really gnarley (North-Wall-ish)seas. On the surface. In a teardrop hull. Yuck!
Oh, and then there was the annual (Foal Eagle '96-'99) surface transit from the "99 Islands" to Yoko, going over the top of AnnualEx. We were never players in THAT game, so over the top we went. Again, WX was usually crummy, but at least it was on a big SlowAttack.
Bay of Biscay, Oct '06...same storm that smacked the Vendee Globe sailboat racers around a bit was cause for lots of sick kids on my boat, not to mention lots of green-water down the hatch.
English Channel, Dec '06. 'Nuff said.
4/28/2009 11:13 AM
Mike,
Instead of second guessing navy decisions, you'd be better served if you would shut your face and focus on minimizing the possibility of "YOU" doing something stupid on the way home.
Ooops. It slipped my mind for a second...the Webster Dictionary definition of the verb Mike Mulligan; To do something stupid..
Mike, you present yourself as the essence of stupidity
4/28/2009 11:22 AM
I see that the COB on the Hartford that got relieved was also the COB on the City of Corpus Christi in 2003, and they got the Battle "E" that year too (along with 2004 and 2005. I guess he didn't have any problems there?
I get what Joel says about reading whatever you want into the COB relief announcement, and I wonder if his departure from the Hartford was not related to the collision...but on the other hand, it's probably not a coincidence, right? Then again, if there is a CPO leadership issue, wouldn't you replace the senior enlisted crew member with an outsider?
http://www.navy.mil/navydata/cno/n87/usw/issue_21/e_winners.htm
4/28/2009 11:52 AM
oops!
Link
4/28/2009 11:55 AM
“Instead of second guessing navy decisions, you'd be better served if you would shut your face and focus on minimizing the possibility of "YOU" doing something stupid on the way home.”
We are in the greatest democracy on this planet, I just think the Navy should explain themselves better. I happen to think transparency is a enormous component of national security.
4/28/2009 12:18 PM
Mikey,
We have all voted you off the island. Time for you to go away.
4/28/2009 12:27 PM
Mulligan,
First, is the your bio:
http://www.houghtonmifflinbooks.com/features/mike_mulligan/
Next, think about how much it would cost to make a seaworthy and more importantly nuclear certified heavy lift shipment across the Atlantic, expecially when it comes to hiring a foreign carrier to do so?
So, the most cost efficient model is to simply shore up her surface seaworthiness and rely on the already paid for and completely undamaged reactor to push her along for the ride.
Oh yeah, on top of everything politically sensitive about nuclear power (which you claim to be so versed in) we also don't want to give away al sorts of secrets to foreign nationals by tossing a nuclear submarine above the waterline for the crew and world to see. In order to mitigate that, we'd have to essentially rent the ship and staff it with US citizens only, who would have to have been vetted for a security clearance... also on the tax payers dime.
So, truth be told, when you factor in intangible costs against national security, the most economic model for correcting this screw up is to have her drive herself home.
The pucker factor is probably high enough now that something stupid will likely not occur.
So, in the words of the duck, pack sand.
4/28/2009 12:31 PM
Actually this is Mikey Mulligan's true BIO:
http://wal-quitting.blogspot.com/
Mikey, how many times do we have to tell you get that rediculous trailer trash picture off of the internet. Granted, it is your true BIO and it's nothing at all to be proud of. But why do you insist on flaunting it?
Mikey, you should be charged with indecent exposure and wrecking havoc on everyone elses psyche who have the misfortune of seeing that God-awful picture of you.
Your misconduct on this board only causes disorder and simple minded subterfuge. It's un-acceptable.
Now go away Mulligan!!!!!!!!!
4/28/2009 1:17 PM
There was the time we- oh, right, surfaced implies aboard a submarine.
I rode the Louisville from SF to SD which included 12 hours or so surfaced. Tigers were invited to the bridge for 5 minute periods, which included Polaroids. I showed the pic to a Seadragon ex-nuc the next week, his response was "in all my years aboard, I was never up there!"
-3383
4/28/2009 1:28 PM
That sounds like big bucks.
4/28/2009 1:52 PM
Big Bucks???
Just exactly who are you bullshitting here Mulligan??
Just get your fat bloated ass off the internet and stop posting on this blog.
Your jackass trailer trash ways in life are not appreciated.
Now get the fuck out Mulligan!!
Take a hint would ya, you rediculous dude.
4/28/2009 1:56 PM
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4/28/2009 3:16 PM
I consider that crew as being traumatize by a number of issues!
4/28/2009 3:17 PM
Mulligan,
I imaging you'd be suprised by the resiliency of the men who volunteer for the submarine force in the wake of catastrophe.
In fact, the only PTSD-like cases from the last few years we when a crew member actually died, such as SAN FRANCISCO grounding and MSP's men overboard. Even then, the crews of both those ships made arduous trips, SFO especially, without incident.
Get over yourself, as the men of the submarine force obviously had alot more to offer their society than you have so far.
4/28/2009 3:20 PM
Bubbles, why have you accepted a coblogger?
Bullnav: I remember that u/w: remember the shipwrecks on the sandbar, and the *different* wrecks on the way back. That and the cliff face *right up against us*...nav was all "eep!" afterward.
Remember that week or two off Indonesia? Great place to be surfaced OOD.
Not a great place to be OOD was *every*year* on the way back from Chinhae during bad WX season and distressingly high traffic level. I do not like green water over the scope when I'm standing OOD...
4/28/2009 3:33 PM
So let me get this straight, the accident is still under investigation, officers on that sub could be implicated...and you are going to let them float across the pond?
You guys lack so much courage, you won't even allow the media to interview any of the sailors and officers? That is right, they can't talk because a investigation is pending. But wait, they are driving across the ocean.
I happen to think most the interviews would make heroes out of the Sub crews!
4/28/2009 3:42 PM
My understanding is that the COB is not making the transient for reasons not related to the collision. The acting COB, MMCM(SS) Jon Wells, is a top-notch guy. I am surprised that a temp, served COB didn't ride along.
4/28/2009 4:34 PM
I showed the pic to a Seadragon ex-nuc the next week, his response was "in all my years aboard, I was never up there!"Yeah, it sucks being a nuke in that regard. When I was MPA I tried to get my guys up for a visit whenever I had surface OOD (under the pretense of bringing coffee). It was my LCPO's first time on the bridge underway; sad. IMHO it should be part of ship's quals under the "history and traditions" section: "consume one cigar on the bridge. Extra points if you make the OOD provide said cigar."
-LT L
4/28/2009 4:35 PM
On the USS Seawolf in 98 or 99. We were going to do some northern ops before PSA. We were doing a fire drill simulated while we're under the ice so we did the vertical surfacing for the drill. Well, when we were going to dive the vent valve stuck shut and it couldn't be fixed. Therefore we couldn't dive. We were about halfway across the North Atlantic when was determined that we had to turn around and go back to Groton. It took a week and a half to get back to Groton. I was ERUL on this run and by the fifth day I was able to anticipate the rolls enough to do my logs without messing them up too bad. It took a while to get used to the ground being stationary when we did finally arrive home.
4/28/2009 4:55 PM
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4/28/2009 4:59 PM
I showed the pic to a Seadragon ex-nuc the next week, his response was "in all my years aboard, I was never up there!"When I was on the 645, I tried to get up there at least once an underway. However, when we were on the surface in the Irish Sea in January, I decided to pass :)
For one deployment, I was lucky enough to be the Bridge JA Red pt for middie ops...
A former 3384
4/28/2009 5:01 PM
For those of us that worked with Prevot at NAVSUBSCOL, this news comes as no surprise.
Another thing about Prevot few people know, his COB tour on City of Corpus Christi was not successful. He was relieved early (quietly fired). Ask around.
4/28/2009 6:26 PM
First, the sail. Looks like the HDR is clamped, probably extracted it and put it there. I'd say a bolted-on radar and two photonics masts for when the eyeballs cannot be on the bridge.
Second, This Prevot guy, when did he leave the 705? And if he was COB there and then he was retreaded...hmmm. Master Chief mafia strikes again.
4/28/2009 6:32 PM
I'm really uncomfortable with trashing a chief on this board, no facts, no justification. The truth will out. Let's knock it off.
4/28/2009 6:51 PM
I forget what boat it was but back in the 82 83 timeframe one of the older SSNs hit a destroyer coming to PD. Basically wrecked the sail. This was near the PI and they had to surface transit to Puget Sound for the workup by the yard.
CSP and co made it a rule that either the CO or the XO had to be present and aware in Control during all PD evolutions. I wonder if that rule still stands.
4/28/2009 7:27 PM
Went through Huricane Bob on surface, passed through eye before able to submerge. Neat to see high and low hotwell alarms at the same time. I took a meclazine, and was on duty the day prior to getting underway. Went to rack after MV Watch, slept a while and got up to relieve. Couldn't get to a shi..toilet or sink - all were in use by seasick fools.
What's all the nonsense about nukes not being on the bridge? We always had a nuke EM up there as JA phone talker. I contemplated doing a lookout card so I could go up and have a purpose on transits. Never had time, though....always something to fix.
4/28/2009 7:57 PM
Chief of Hartford sacked after collision:
By Andrew Scutro - Staff writer
Posted : Tuesday Apr 28, 2009 19:28:07 EDT
"The top enlisted sailor aboard the attack submarine Hartford was fired last week"......
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2009/04/navy_hartfordCOB_042809w/
Navy Times claim that he was fired....
As far as the CoCC, obviously I can't prove it, but if you really want to know the truth.....ask around.
Srvd_SSN_CO hit the nail on the head....he should have NEVER been retreaded. Raised a lot of eyebrows in Groton.
4/28/2009 8:05 PM
Spot on about not trashing the chief. For sure the posts with his name ought to come down.
4/28/2009 8:06 PM
Mike,
Real heroes don't talk much, which sheds some light on why your posts are so long.
4/28/2009 8:15 PM
I forget what boat it was but back in the 82 83 timeframe one of the older SSNs hit a destroyer coming to PD. Basically wrecked the sail. This was near the PI and they had to surface transit to Puget Sound for the workup by the yard.
CSP and co made it a rule that either the CO or the XO had to be present and aware in Control during all PD evolutions. I wonder if that rule still stands.Wasn't that Nautilus and some bird farm? I remember reading some indecent report as part of training.
The rule is still somewhat in effect until you prove yourself otherwise. For me it went from CO/XO was on the CON from the end of baffle clear to PD in early qualification, CO/XO would show up on the CON immediately after safety sweeps when I sort of knew what I was doing, to CO/XO asking if I saw anything interesting during relief reports once I was PNEO qualified (not that Nuke stuff matters forward, just a datum on my progression) and had a grip on things.
-LT L
4/28/2009 8:15 PM
"The posts with his name ought to come down"???
WTF is up with that? Are we going to ask navy.mil to redact it from the news story covering the transit as well?
We can speculate about whoever we want, however we want. It matters not that he's a Chief Petty Officer. In fact, the name should stay up there because he's a Chief Petty Officer. They should be held to a higher standard than the rest of the poor enlisted pukes.
And WTF is up with this "Spot On" nonsense? It sounds stupid, so stop it.
4/28/2009 8:31 PM
The Navy Times wrote a story about his firing, and *gasp* his name is listed.
4/28/2009 8:34 PM
I guess this answers my question about why the COB went bye-bye:
“[Prevot] was relieved in conjunction with the incident that occurred aboard Hartford,” said Lt. Nate Christensen, 5th Fleet spokesman. He said no other changes in personnel have taken place since then.
4/28/2009 8:40 PM
If you're uncomfortable, then go find another blog where everyone holds hands, no one sticks their neck out, and no one questions those above them. Besides, I'm sure the ex-COB is scouring the internet to find out what people are saying about him. He can post his self defense any time he wishes.
4/28/2009 10:04 PM
And because I need to put the Chief’s Hat on:
Mike,
Die of syphilis and rot in hell. If this is stern enough, let me know. Jackass!
You have zero knowledge of the Submarine Force and therefore you have zero say. Do all of us a favor a die a quiet death.
Rat Bastard
p.s. I have inside knowledge of what is going on, and I will not say (Silent Service (and my job)).
4/28/2009 10:05 PM
Why this sacred approach to not "trashing achief"? We had no problem trashing the CO? Since when do chief petty officers acquire some special protection?
I think that is part of our problem in the sub force. We're afraid of holding Chiefs accountable. Don't believe me? Look what is required for the CO to take any discipline action. Been there, done that!
4/28/2009 10:32 PM
If Prevot was the DOOW or in Control during any of the alleged shenanigans leading up to the collision, he deserved to be DFC'd.
No question about it.
If he wasn't, but it was found that it was his leadership that led to the climate on Hartford - Specifically that BS'ing on the mid-watch while geographically constrained to heck & gone from home waters (heck, anywhere) in a high contact density environment at PD is okay...off he goes.
The crew feeds off the attitude of the COB, for better or worse.
As far as trashing him here, we normally save that stuff for inside the goatlocker, away from occifer or crew ears. In this kind of case (name in the paper & all that), public discussion is bound to occur & I don't have a problem w/ it except when the character snipers don't even leave a handle. That's just cowardice.
As to CPO's going to Captain's Mast, it is just as possible (though not as probable by any means) to happen as any other blue shirt, the only difference is the CO doesn't have the authority to reduce in rate.
Generally what happens instead though is the underperformer will get a P13 or LOI and a downgrade on BLK 43 of their FITREP, which essentially kills his career.
STSC
4/29/2009 1:13 AM
When the incident occurred there might have been no trashing of the CO directly, but lets face it, his name was 'Hartford.' Still, no trash talk..you dork it, you lose.
As to the COB, no trash talk--you dork it you lose it. I have always found it amusing when people say the COB has the same level of responsibility as the CO because it is very rare for the enlisted leadership to be held accountable for these types of things; primarily because ship driving is not something to hold anyone but officers accountable for.
However, I withdraw my comment about the E9 mafia. If Prevot left the 705 when I think he did, then his relief was probably not justified and giving him another shot most likely was a good call. That option would have been decided before he left the squadron.
4/29/2009 4:15 AM
Rat bastard is kinda harsh.
4/29/2009 5:21 AM
This comment has been removed by the author.
4/29/2009 6:21 AM
All right, chief Prevot now has got the best defense team in the nation on his side.
The chief has been watching and fighting this disorder on submarines for a very long time. On the USS Hartford he’d seen the disorder, knew where it would lead, his enlisted shipmates kept him abreast of the command disorder....talked to the CO often about their complaints of the command. To him it was just another disorganized and tyrannical command. But he’s seen the accident coming.
After the accident, he couldn’t get over that he knew the accident was coming and couldn’t stop it. The navy couldn’t tolerate his opinion and he was considered disruptive to the crew on the way home. The Navy wanted to discredit his side of the story, so they put him at ground zero with the firing a month after it occured...in order to send a message to the enlisted fleet to keep their mouths shut about the reliability of the submarine fleet. The chief was emotionally traumatized by the accident and couldn’t attend to his duties. He couldn’t find a closing to these events.
You can perceive a emotionally traumatic accident in two ways:
1) A huge accident comes out of nowhere and nobody seen it coming. These are the easy ones to get over.
2) A accident is known to be coming, you tried to stop it, and a accident beyond your wildest imagination occurred. A accident of this perception framework always rocks you core of your soul!
4/29/2009 6:25 AM
"A accident of this perception framework always rocks you to core of your soul!"
You are saying he advised the Navy that the crew was unsafe to take the USS Harford across the ocean, he refused to go with the ship on principle...that's when the Navy blamed him for the collision in Strait of Hormuz and brought up all the dirt on his past commands.
4/29/2009 6:36 AM
@the mysterious "anonymous"
I'll leave the DOOW comment alone.
If he was IN the Control Room he deserves to be DFC'd? What if he was on the LL crapper? Your sort of comments are the reason it's not good to trash anyone on a board. Things tend to flame/burn.
I would hope that since most of us here have some real experience with high performance/high demand work situations, we can keep things respectful.
Most of us who have been there have screwed up from time to time, and we recognize that save for the grace of God, we could have been in the same position.
Sorry you don't like my euphemism for "damn straight".
I'm open to feedback, and I'm sure Bubblehead will give me some if he thinks it's needed.
@Mike
Why don't you just put your speculation on your own board and post some kind of short reference to it here?
4/29/2009 6:46 AM
It's funny that you think things aren't being kept "respectful". The things said here about the COB are pretty tame, if you ask me...some discussion of fact, some speculation..but nobody has come out and said "This guy is a shitbag."
Oh, wait a minute...
4/29/2009 6:59 AM
Srvd_ssn_co,
As my COB so eloquently told the XO one time “There are only two people on this boat with a Command Pin and you’re not one of them”. He also said one time that “You can’t fire the crew” and he expected to be held accountable for not only his actions but the crews actions. That COB was great and I was honored to serve and learn from him.
I’ll wait to hear the whole story. There are too many holes now to see the big picture.
That Damn Good Looking Aganger From Iowa
4/29/2009 7:45 AM
Anon, only ONE man on the sub has a command pin. One 'badge' is for the "command master chief". The other is for "Command at Sea." One is Commanding. One only.
4/29/2009 7:57 AM
Cause that is how wars or conflicts are won, including political battles. You speculate better or you speculate more accurately than your enemies or competitors can!
I suppose we could come up with a “speculation intelligence” as in “Machiavellian intelligence”
But who says this is speculation?
4/29/2009 8:05 AM
Mike, You should really go somewhere where your audience isn't 100x more knowledgeable than you. It's like if I started lecturing brain surgeons on proper OR technique. You're just looking like a clown to everyone except yourself.
I was staff at SUBRON 15 when the COB in question was relieved from CoCC. I'm very surprised to see him in a COB position again, and I'm sure anyone else that was there is also surprised. Read in to that what you will.
MMCS
4/29/2009 8:28 AM
If you feed a troll, he'll keep coming back.
4/29/2009 9:32 AM
The first thing I thought of when I read the COB was busted was that the Navy was going to start doing things Air Force style.
Blame all accidents/incidents on enlisted whenever you can, when that won't fly go after a non-pilot low ranking officer.
What folks here think happened is just as bad, though.
4/29/2009 9:40 AM
Yea, but he really cared about his crew and fights for them to the best of his ability...against these cowboy CO’s and XO’s?
Wouldn’t you like to hear his side of the story, isn’t there always two sides of a story?
Again they fired him just a few days ago...the firing is unrelated the collision on the Gulf of Hormuz? They fired him because he refused to go sea with that sub? How would that have look to the Navy Time, a highly senior enlisted submariner refused to go to sea with his ship!
4/29/2009 9:54 AM
Hi Mike,
I know that you like to think that everyone who has gotten fired lost their jobs because they were trying to blow the whistle. You like to think that this is why you lost your job. Really you lost your job because own peers wanted you fired. Why? Because you couldn't stay awake,and you showed for work on the wrong days.
4/29/2009 10:26 AM
Hey Mulligan,
since you were fired from your last job, maybe you could apply to Burger King. I understand they start off around $8.00 an hour. If you work really hard and keep your mouth shut, maybe you can make asst. manager for around $9.50 by this time next year. Maybe that would give you a better sense of self worth.
Just make certain you take your http://wal-quitting.blogspot.com/
off the net first. Burger King might be checking with Wal-Mart regarding your work history.
Now stop posting here and find a job Mulligan.
4/29/2009 10:39 AM
SUBRON 15 MMCS validates my earlier CoCC claim. As I mentioned before, just ask around.....
MMCS(weps?), if so, I know you. Last time we spoke was on the plane leaving Guam.
FTC
4/29/2009 10:39 AM
"The chief has been watching and fighting this disorder on submarines for a very long time. On the USS Hartford he’d seen the disorder, knew where it would lead, his enlisted shipmates kept him abreast of the command disorder....talked to the CO often about their complaints of the command."Umm, is there any citation to back up these statements of fact? They're certainly not stated as personal conjecture.
Or is it Make Shit Up Day and I missed it?
Carl
4/29/2009 10:45 AM
You know, as long as you keep dignifying Fraulein Mulligan's comments with your responses, he'll keep posting.
What's the fun of being a Troll if everybody ignores you?
4/29/2009 10:46 AM
"Mike Mulligan said...
Rat bastard is kinda harsh."
My brothers of the fin, troll is right. I propose one (or all) of the following appelations be used ...
No talent ass-clown
Dumb ass
Fuck stick
Stupid Mo Fo
NUB wanna be
FUBAR boy
Waste case
"Whistle" blower (or something else)
Check valve Mikey
San One Full
4/29/2009 10:46 AM
I mean, they probably promised the chief a cherry end of career job if he would just go along with the ruse of his bogus firing for the Gulf of Hormuz accident.
4/29/2009 10:57 AM
"I forget what boat it was but back in the 82 83 timeframe one of the older SSNs hit a destroyer coming to PD. Basically wrecked the sail. This was near the PI and they had to surface transit to Puget Sound for the workup by the yard."
That would be my old boat The Thomas A Edison after her conversion to "slow attack"
You can see a picture of the aftermath of the collision here:
http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/6153/610pics3.htm
4/29/2009 10:58 AM
Oh I don't think Mikey cares about anyone responding to him. I think he just wants someone to read his posts. And I have found a very clever way of screening his posts (even when he doesn't post under his name). All I see under my browser is his name... I am sure you guys can find it.
4/29/2009 11:19 AM
I mean, the context of this is everything. They just invented the instrument of deregulation...all the utilities were thinking pandemic wise, of a collapse of electric prices, or to reduce electric prices such that new players wouldn’t be introduced into the market. With these budget cuts nuke plant were dropping like Mexican’s with a new influenza strain in country. I kept hammering them cost cutting is going to create a terrible accident and it will damage the nuclear industry.
As I got fired the parent’s company stock price was screaming to unbelievable heights. Within less than two years the stock price had collapse to inconceivable historic lows. The banged around bankruptcy for the next decade and debt rating is still impaired to this day. This wasn’t at all unrelated to the cost of electric prices on the grid.
As it sits now deregulation is a completely discredited philosophy. It reminds me of corporatizing and businessatizing the Navy.
Everyone ask, if I didn’t terrorized them...what would have happened?
You ought to read this one and ask who is pushing WHO.
http://www.topix.net/forum/source/brattleboro-reformer/T3AQH7NEDNK51QD4H
4/29/2009 11:26 AM
Aren't there some hairy stories of NR-1 surface transits?
4/29/2009 11:53 AM
I got these guys on so many technical issues it was pathetic. They called in high level Boston corporate protection legal team. They were the best corporate lawyers in the nation...they had many hundreds of good lawyers in the business. They were the best in the nation...a whole freaking team of legal experts. These guys didn’t often go into a court room. There court room was their interconnections to the political system...who could put the strings in the deep background. Their intent was to structure a less damaging outcome. There best lawyer took my deposition. He had the sharpest mind and tongue that I ever seen. He had my guts already dangling on the floor...as I though this old man is going to be a pushover. As far as the skills, he is one my most admired people I ever met. He was prepared and he had a impeccable memory of the details...unlike my lawyers. He made my lawyers absolutely look stupid.
But he was organizing the troops, I had friends telling me this was occurring as it was happening. They had meetings behind my back orchestrating the employee’s response to me. All I can say, that was a pretty neat trick them saying the employees had mistrusted me...they got me fired.
I mean, I had a gaggle of senior managers wanting to get even with their bosses by ratting to me constantly. That why they had to get rid of me at all cost and think up a good rationalization if I went full public. They were terrified with what knowledge I had. But you get what I am saying, these experienced senior old sharks, they know the system so well and they are so in the political system...they can orchestrate the outcome creating a mirage.
4/29/2009 11:59 AM
Got news for you Mikey... Lawyers who defend fools always look stupid.
4/29/2009 12:57 PM
Mikey,
When will you realize that you're nothing more than a dreamer. Maybe you tried to get through BESS, but it's clear you didn't make it.
I suspect your ASVAB scores got you in. However, you were clearly unable to make it to graduation.
You're not even a (Has Been) or a NUB wanna be. You are what we classify as a (Never Could Be/Never Should Be).
All you're doing Mikey, is fouling up this board. This is where Real & Actual Submariners of all generations come to read, argue/debate with one another.
Let me place additional emphasis on that last one again...This Sanctuary is where REAL SUBMARINERS enjoy a few moments of each others thoughts & experiences on catching up with an old shipmate or arguing with each other on history and current events.
You Mikey, have no place here. You never have and you never will. It really is that simple if you stop and think about it. Mikey your Jackass antics which you post, are 90% of the time completely beside the point and off topic by 180degrees.
You're nothing more than a wanna be loser Mikey. Step up to reality and realize that fine point in life. What you do here is appalling in nature and it's shameful
4/29/2009 2:00 PM
Chief Torpedoman:
I watched EDISON pull into Puget Sound (actually Bangor). What devastation! And...that was a WINTER surface transit. Fellow JO on there said it was hell on the high seas!
My worst transit was as XO into Holy Loch in January. NR surfaced us about 500 miles out due to DG OOC. We spent days in dead winter transitting...and had about 80% sea sick. CO told OOD not to puke on his conn...so OOD leaned off the conn and puked on CO's leg!
4/29/2009 2:16 PM
Srvd_SSN_CO.
I stand corrected.
That Damn Good Looking Aganger From Iowa
4/29/2009 4:54 PM
Interesting thread. Doesn't surprise me that CO was relieved; sorry friend. Expect OOD will need to requalify at best. Been retired too long to know COB; no idea what happened there. Was on one boat where two COB's went out under less than happy circumstances. First I was sad about, the other I wasn't surprised.
YNC(SS), USN, Retired
4/29/2009 9:02 PM
Oh, yeah, the only long surface transit I made was before entering Submarine Force. USS FRANK KNOX (DDR 742), USS ORISKANY (CVA 34), USS NEOSHO (AO 143). My first three ships. All during 1960's.
4/29/2009 9:08 PM
D**N Chief Scribe!! Your getting back to my time!! Pearl Harbor USS Cusk SS-348 early 60's. I Remember all those old 2100's in DesRon 25. Nicholas, Obannon, Phillip, Renshaw, Taylor, Sproston, Jenkins. newest ones of the bunch were the 2250's Epperson and Carpenter. Good ships, good crews, turn too, f**k you as was said "in the day"
Keep a zero bubble..........
DBFTMC(SS)USNRET
4/29/2009 9:59 PM
Yup, been there, heard that. This too OooGhaaaa.
4/30/2009 7:51 AM
The posted photo is very ironic, is it not?
Had an invisible LIDAR sweep been made prior to the collision, none of this travesty would have resulted. Rex
4/30/2009 12:38 PM
I think that is part of our problem in the sub force. We're afraid of holding Chiefs accountable.Amen to that, shipmate. I see that the good ol' boy system is also alive and well in the silent service.
One the chief's name becomes public, guess what, he becomes a public figure, and no one should really give a rat's ass if he is a chief or not. He fucked up, plain and simple.
4/30/2009 6:47 PM
Photo shows signs of enthusiastic welding; straightening the sail? Not so much.
4/30/2009 8:27 PM
I think that until the investigation is done, and the whole story is out, we shouldn't say that he fucked up. We can say it looks like he did, and shipmates who know him can say he's an ass-hat or whatever they want. Those things we can take as opinion. But I think we ought to leave direct charges out. Once the investigation is over, whoever needs to take the lumps should take 'em. Part of life. Motivation to everyone else not to screw up.
4/30/2009 8:43 PM
I asked around. Prevot was indeed fired by his CO when acting as COB on the CoCC. How he got another shot is beyond me.
More details are coming out slowly, albeit w/ 'privileged info' attached to them so I can't go into details here.
The specific acts of negligence and bad watchstanding on Hartford I've heard about more recently are a complete travesty. I do not see the full report ever going public. Too damaging to the already tarnished Navy image. Think Tailhook underwater & that's the level of unprofessionalism displayed (w/o the booze & grabby hands).
I will say that I think the corrective actions message prequel that came out last week is right on target, and it will likely get more comprehensive after the report is published.
STSC
5/01/2009 2:47 AM
FOIA.
It'll go public.
5/01/2009 4:54 AM
“All you're doing Mikey, is fouling up this board.”
Man, are you giving me a lot of power.
The truth is stranger than the fiction you made up. I came from a low income housing project, skipped-hooky most of the last year of my high school but graduated. The recruiters just about falsified every test I took including my physical. It was the summer of 1974...they were shit canning Nixon and everyone mistrusted the government. Nobody was enlisting at the time except me. I was actually fleeing for my life because of my involvement with the Irish mob.
I had the audacity to demand to the recruiters, I am going nuclear or I am going army. They tried to talk me out of it...they knew I wasn’t kidding.
A kid like me makes the best warrior!
5/01/2009 6:04 AM
You know that submariner qualification tank with a stanky hood that every one is supposed to go through in order to get on submarines...that is another test the Navy blew off for me?
5/01/2009 6:20 AM
Joel writes:
Off topic, if you just ignore the troll, it makes it easier for me to delete his posts when I get home from work. I hesitate to do so when it would make normal commenter's comments look dumb when they aren't relating to comments that exist anymore. Also, for those who were wondering, since I'm on Blogger, I can't ban any particular people or IP addresses.
Maybe it's time to switch to another blogging system then...
5/01/2009 6:45 AM
haha "stanky hood"
5/01/2009 6:50 AM
I thought Mike Mulligan was working in deh basement in Boston. Butn't no! Dang he's fleering from deh Irish Mob! And Ima think I had it bad. I'm on deh lamb from F.A.N. which is an acroname for Federation of Armed Nations - very bad JuJu ifn you catch mai drift. I hides under my futon most days and keeps a cat in each window to scare off the FAN boys. I suggest you do the same. It gets all peaceful and warm after awhile.
Srsly, you should try eet.
5/01/2009 7:55 AM
Assuming the data makes it in the report, FOIA applies. Not everything makes it in the final report.
5/01/2009 11:44 AM
The New London Area Navy League had a briefing by CSG2 last night and his comments on HARTFORD were that the CO took responsibility for the incident and, unofficially, it appeared that an inexperienced OOD did not recognize the dangerous situation developing and then froze at "in extremis". I was surprised that he said that much.
5/01/2009 12:02 PM
See the ratio of available COB billets against the number of applicants, and some of you may be less surprised.
5/01/2009 3:57 PM
an inexperienced OOD did not recognize the dangerous situation developing and then froze at "in extremis".
So, this OOD couldn't react in a stressful environment and this is the guy who the CO let drive the boat back into port after the collision??? What's up with that......
5/01/2009 6:14 PM
Mike,
NOBODY CARES.
That is all.
5/01/2009 7:17 PM
halfempty-
Don't worry, the Special High Impact Teams will soon hit the Federation of Armed Nations.
5/02/2009 2:57 PM
Rumor has it the COB had two alcohol incidents during said deployment that the boat attempted to "handle". One may have even resulted in delaying an underway because he was not on board. Food for thought. Kinda leads into poor standards and watchstanding practices.
5/03/2009 4:31 PM
Based on the snippets of info in this thread the Hartford incident is starting to remind me of the Atlanta running into Spain/Gibraltar.
They had no modified piloting party stationed for transit of the Straits. Inexperienced/weak OOD. No CDO.
Not sure if Hartford mixed in all those but running in SoH submerged at near PD it would seem a no-brainer to have only experienced OODs, modified piloting party and a CDO and contact coordinator.
Atlanta mixed in totally screwing up DMINS, ignoring the sonar picture that was screaming "Danger Will Robinson"
5/04/2009 9:56 AM
A good FTOW would have saved the day ;)
FTC
5/04/2009 1:01 PM
The 21st century Navy is full of pussies. Dive that boat, you big homos!
5/15/2009 8:27 AM
Well, after reading all of the posts above I have a few comments..
1. Mulligan
I take $hit$ that make more sense than you. Shut up!
2. The COB.
I don't know him, but obviously some of you do, so I take your opinion with a grain of salt.
I do, however, know the CO who relieved for the transit (CDR Harkins). If he didn't feel comfortable with Prevot being the COB, then the guy wasn't worth a damn.
3. I completely agree that it's the CO's responsibility to ensure that he has his best people in the right places. Unfortunately, too many of us have seen what happens on board a ship.
Guy gets qualified, and manages to pull the wool over the old man's eyes. Next thing you know, he's God's gift to watchstanding, and he is touted as the next great thing.
Usually, something slightly less dramatic occurs, and the truth comes out, but in this case the guy got bit by something nobody would have ever wished upon a ship.
4. For CDR Harkins to name the EDMC as the acting COB instead of some Forward Area Guy, speaks volumes for the quality of the cone vs. the quality of the ER.
(And yes, I was a nuke!)
5/20/2009 8:02 PM
"For CDR Harkins to name the EDMC as the acting COB instead of some Forward Area Guy, speaks volumes for the quality of the cone vs. the quality of the ER"......
Don't be so sure. He has a way of demoralizing a mess/locker.
I can only think of a few people that I have truly disliked over my 24 year career, he would rank #2.
I cringed when hearing he was headed to the Hartford as the cob. Seriously considered calling their locker for a heads-up.
5/23/2009 12:04 PM
As a former sailor on the USS COCC in 2003 and 2004, I must add that competition did not exists, if any very little. In 2003, there was only the San Fran. We all know what happened to that boat early 2005, which leave only 2 boats in Guam most of 2005 I reckon.
I knew Stefon and was a better improvement from previous COB, but not a Battle E COB.
6/23/2009 10:20 AM
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