Where's (Captain) Waldo?
When I first glanced at this picture on the official Navy website, I thought at first that something very important was missing. First check out the caption:
Cmdr. Thad Nisbett, left, commanding officer of the Los-angeles-class attack submarine USS Albany (SSN 753), discusses the capabilities of the boat's fire control system with U.S. Congressman Glenn Nye, III.Then, look at the picture:
At first, I said to myself, "Wow, that's embarassing; the person on the left is clearly an FT2(SS)." Then, I realized that caption writer was correct; I hadn't seen the CO at first, since he was so expertly camouflaged! I'm just wondering if the CO of the Albany is wearing the official Navy Working Uniform, or if it's something else; his doesn't seem quite as blue as the ones sported by the crew of USS Scranton earlier this year. Maybe he's wearing the "woodland"-camouflage option with "dominant grey" color scheme. Or maybe the uniform color changes when it's not in direct sunlight. In any event, it looks like supervisors wearing the new NWU will be much more stealthy when it comes to sneaking up on crewmen! On the other hand, it'll probably make it much harder to find a roving watchstander who really doesn't want to be found when it's time to review his logs.
posted by Bubblehead at 2:46 AM
71 Comments:
I'm guessing they're not underway as they're not in poopy suits. They still wear those, right?
4/09/2009 4:07 AM
I hate the new NWU. Our CO/XO/COB have been wearing them recently, and they are just hideous.
As for the poopy suits, their use after the new uniform roll out day is up to each individual command. Thank the stars my DH's command is keeping them!
4/09/2009 5:35 AM
It dawns on me from looking at the picture that perhaps a better cammy uniform for submarine sailors might be one patterned with a jumble of pipes, valves, dial faces, and spanner wrenches...
The skipper looks like an idiot in the new uniform.
4/09/2009 5:46 AM
Of course, the argument goes that the new working uniform is designed to "hide stains"...so maybe a lube oil and fresh deck paint cammo pattern would be ideal.
Can't you just imagine the new motto: "Hiding stains with pride since 2009."
4/09/2009 7:21 AM
Stains? What stains? When I was a sailor in SS-244, I always had a clean uniform underway.
I used the pigboat plan: no matter what the time at sea was to be, always go to sea with two sets of dungarees. Wear one and stow the second set inside the flash cover under your mattress. When the set you're wearing gets scuzzy, swap it with the set you've stowed in your rack. The set you put on will be cleaner than the set you took off. Then later when the new set has gotten scuzzy, swap them again ... and again, the new set is cleaner. You can do this for a really long time and you always have a cleaner set of clothes available.
4/09/2009 8:08 AM
When the XO or CMC wore their NWU around the site, I was always surprised at how dark the uniform appeared. Not quite as blue as I expected from the original pictures.
4/09/2009 8:38 AM
Rubber Mallard: once again hating on the new uniforms.... Don't hate the playa hate the game. I like them, I think they build moral. change is good sometimes, recognize
4/09/2009 9:27 AM
Build moral? No. Morale, maybe.
I just think the navy needs to start treating its people like people. My big issue isn't with the uniforms. It is with the draconian rules that accompany them.
4/09/2009 9:35 AM
Yep, the new rules regarding the NWU are the apex of stupidity. I will never understand the mentality of punishing all for the actions (in this case, potential actions) of a few. Lay out the guidelines, trust adults to be adults, and hammer those who can't comply. Seems simple to me.
BTW, I served with Thad Nisbett on ATLANTA. He was a good ENG, I'm sure he'll be a good Captain.
4/09/2009 10:22 AM
As I've said in previous posts, this uni was designed by some poseur POG REMF who wants to pretend that they are playing SPECWAR. Given the locales in which it will be worn, it is ridiculous in its design and appearance. Appears to me as jarhead envy.
4/09/2009 11:30 AM
Since when have SSN sailors worn poopy suits? USS Albany (SSN 753) is not a boomer. - Rex
4/09/2009 12:11 PM
Thanks for the clarification. I thought that disembodied head was pretty creepy.
4/09/2009 12:21 PM
The NWU constitutes fraud, waste, and abuse. The people who claimed to be defending the country while at work at TF Uniform have defrauded the taxpayers. The NWU itself constitutes waste. And senior officers and master chiefs making JOs and sailors wear it gives us abuse.
4/09/2009 12:25 PM
The referenced Wiki article says "Coveralls are certified to be fire resistant." Is that true? I don't remember that to be the case.
4/09/2009 12:35 PM
harry buckles.... You have got to be kidding me? Abuse? time to up the meds my friend.
Sinc G Roughead.
P.S.The uniforms are a good idea. I think they will stick around.
P.S.S. Quack Quack DO I smell a Rubber Ducky
4/09/2009 12:53 PM
Blame the army and the marines - we started the race to the bottom as soon as cammies off-base became the norm.
Looks like we've arrived!
4/09/2009 1:42 PM
Clearly, it was a failed attempt to hide from the politician.
4/09/2009 3:26 PM
We wore poopie suits underway on the Houston (SSN 713)...all the time. We were known to wear them inport, too, if we were doing "dirty" work.
4/09/2009 3:38 PM
We still wear poopie suits while underway. Not that NWU shit. Please don't make me have to buy the new cammie crap next year. It's an utter joke.
You Gents will find that the latest generation is very happy with the new black & tans. But please kill this NWU idea. We can't wear them anywhere in port. If one of my guys stops anywhere off base while sporting the NWUs I have to investigate (play 20 ?s) and possibly write him up for it. WTF?? Even our COB has no definitive answer. We're hoping MCPON and everyone else will let us off the leash and give us some slack, provided our guys wear the damn thing properly.
MT2 WidgetHead
4/09/2009 3:57 PM
Rick West inherited the current NWU policy from Joe Campa. I think we'll all see a policy modification a little while after the roll-out is finished.
If you look over his published remarks on the subject, MCPON West is rather evasive about expressing his personal opinion on the NWU wear policy. I'd bet money it is going to change. In the meantime, it sucks for the guys wearing it.
WRT the Black & Tan's, I personally hate them. I keep calling PS2's Chief at PSD when I see the khaki shirt & they are behind a desk.
The guys do like them though and the poly-wool material is alot more durable than the utility shirt.
I can't see submarines every completely getting rid of poopie suits. They'll just go back to being underway organizational clothing, just like the brown wool sweaters are now.
STSC(SS)
4/09/2009 6:13 PM
"The referenced Wiki article says "Coveralls are certified to be fire resistant." Is that true?"
FIRE RESISTANT is like SHRINK RESISTANT
They burn, but they don't WANT to.
4/09/2009 6:43 PM
Navy Times article out on wear policy for NWU in Pentagon, public transportation, and NDW in general. Nope, not going to happen. No mention in the article that Army folk wear theirs everywhere in D.C. area, apparently without issue. Perhaps big Navy afraid that Army folks would point and snicker.
4/09/2009 7:05 PM
But if we were to wear them off base, the rest of the country would be more convinced that we're warriors.
Anonymous two after my last post,
I was being somewhat facetious, but the nature of facetious remarks is that within them there is a grain of truth.
4/09/2009 7:29 PM
630-738: Nisbett was a pretty decent XO, too. (Providence, '03.)
Anon: I arrived aboard my first SSN in '83, retired off my third one in '03. Poopy suits were always the underway uniform on all three boats.
4/09/2009 7:48 PM
Glad to hear that. I only had a very few ENG's I truly respected, and he was one of them. It's a damn shame that our CO on ATLANTA was such an ass. At least CDR Nisbett learned what NOT to do.
4/09/2009 8:10 PM
Real "Poopie suits" were actually Polaris suits and worn on the Polaris boats back in the day.
On R E Lee in 1976 I was issued two real Poopie suits for patrol.
Poopie suits were extremely well made had some stretch material uner the arms and were much thicker and more durable than the ultra thin faux poopie suits that were really just blue coveralls.
But because real poopie suits were blue and the coveralls sort of looked like them the cheap blue coveralls became "poopie suits"
Real poopie suits were better made than most flight suits IMO.
4/09/2009 8:13 PM
Just blow off on the 'real' poopie suit talk. Those 'expando' vents on the side were flat out gross looking and (regrettably) not just on the boomers.
We had an overweight Nav that hung onto his 'expando' suit (he got it on a 637, by the way) for his tour on our newcon 688.
The man looked like a walking hydro test.
4/09/2009 8:40 PM
The skipper looks like a smurf. Smurf suits for all my sailors!! Smurf of the quarter, smurf of the year. Stupid!!
DBFTMC(SS)USNRET
4/09/2009 9:19 PM
When I saw working uniforms made with polyester, I knew that good sense was not a part of the process. Unless it has been mandated that flash will not happen henceforth.
-3383
4/09/2009 10:10 PM
The only thing that sucks about poopie soots is dropping a sleave in the crapper, but only nubs do that once or twice. After that, they can get signed off as qualified to wear the uniform.
Rackburn
4/10/2009 6:53 AM
"Designed to hide stains," so I'm assuming for inspections they'll be having to take a magnifying glass to them to see if there's anything they can hit you for.
4/10/2009 9:11 AM
I like the NWU and the new service uniform. I think the NWU wear policy is severely retarded.
Sailors should always be encouraged to wear uniforms out in public. I think its a shame that we encourage or demand the wearing of civilian clothing - what are we ashamed of? Its the opposite of pride. Chiefs should be standing up and letting themselves be heard on this.
One thing that disturbed me about this picture - why is the CO wearing the NWU, but not the rest of the crew? So much for unit cohesion, I guess.
4/10/2009 1:17 PM
When MCPON West came down to Kings Bay he told us that the rule about the cammies off base are going to be what the navy times told us. It's up to the goat locker to decide when we can ware them off base. So some surface chief is going to say we can't ware them right so I don't think we will ever ware them off base.
EM3 (SU)
4/10/2009 1:25 PM
Nub,
Check your spelling. It's "wear", not "ware".
4/10/2009 2:42 PM
Cammies on subs....there you go.
Thank whatever mental giant came up with that wonderful idea.
The people who man the navy uniform board should all be crucified immediately to the tree of woe.
4/10/2009 2:57 PM
Once the NWUs are being issued Navy wide, we will have to allow sailors to wear them off base. Not to a nudy bar or a sports bar, but we will have too many E-1s thru E6s getting written up for uniform violations. MCPON West will have to allow and trust us to wear the uniform properly or you'll see 3/4 of the combined fleet standing mast for stopping for gas, the grocery store and the day-care center to pick up the kids at the end of the duty day.
None of the other services are provided with this conflict/problem. Why must the Navy be tasked with dealing with such a jackass albotross?
Oh' and MCPON West does read this board too. I've actually seen the main page of this site on his PC when laying the morning report on his desk.
4/10/2009 4:50 PM
Another thing that bothers me about the NWU is that it is another instance where the Navy is slowly losing its identity as a Naval service. Along with the new service uniform Navy personnel are starting to look like members of other services. These days John and Jane Q can barely identify the service of an officer or chief in service khaki.
4/10/2009 6:08 PM
You youngsters probably don't realize it, but the Navy has been screwing around with uniforms since 1971 when we got the Zumwalt bus driver suits. '79-'82 I pushed six companies thru RTC Orlando. None of them got issued the same seabag. We were going from bus drivers back to cracker jacks. I guess uniforms are more important these days than dealing with pirates. The NWU is horrible. We were supposed to be sailors, not ground pounders...
4/10/2009 8:28 PM
"I like them, I think they build moral. "
How? By making sailors look like wannabe Rambos? Is that how we "build morale" now, like the Army? By issuing berets to everyone, where they previously had to be earned?
This just confirms my suspicions that this silly uniform has nothing to do with "hiding stains", and everything to do with looking good on a recruiting poster. Now you too can wear elite cammies, only now you don't have to go through nasty stuff like Marine or Seal training.
I'll raise a glass and celebrate when the Navy comes to its senses and decides that sailors should look like sailors again.
4/10/2009 9:04 PM
I'm a 19 year bubblehead. Worn the nwu two weeks.
Little ironing required, the shirt is not tucked in, and they are comfy.
The are better than the prison garb and janitor wear that i grew up with.
The jacket has flaps called handwarmers (not pockets).
I figure they will buy me 5 minutes of life if attacked. (shoot the hard green targets first)
Whats not to like?
4/10/2009 9:13 PM
What the Navy is trying to do is get everyone on the same page regarding uniforms when not at sea or on the boat...ETC. This is mainly based on E1s to first class sailors.
They want us to have only 3 uniforms in our sea bag. The black & tans, the PT tops and bottoms and the new "beloved" NWU. That's the whole line of thought really. These bullshit regs on not wearing the NWU in town need to go away however. Next year, something will have to change within these requirements...and it probably will.
4/10/2009 10:25 PM
The 3 uniform in a seabag is a great concept...if we could actually go to that.
The guys will still need to bring their dress uniforms, which means keeping dress whites/blues mashed under the mattresses for them. And now they also have to bring blue t-shirts underway for wear w/ the NWU for when we're tied up to a pier.
At least the topside watches will look better in a not as visibly dirty NWU or NSU than in dirty utilities or whites.
btw, where in the heck are we going to stow the 8 point covers for the NWU without them all getting squashed on the boat? I'm going to miss wash khakis & ball caps for in-port wear...
The upcoming service dress khaki is alright, if a little bulky. Not looking forward to going back to wearing the tie.
STSC(SS)
4/11/2009 1:17 AM
Not a fan of the NWU. If I wanted to be a Soldier or Marine, I wouldn't have joined the Navy.
But, it is alot better than the current Utility (aka Prisoner Uniform) we are currently cursed with.
I will miss my ballcaps, but I'll get over it. Just like when we went from Dungaree to the Utility.
However, my biggest complaint is the lack of Rank Recognition. You cannot tell the rank of people until you are about 5 ft from them...then the whole belated Salute occurs.
and I have 20/15 vision
btw, the Coveralls have been worn on every single SSN and SSBN I've ever seen. I've been down onboard at least 20 of them by now, and I'd lay down an entire paycheck that SSN crews wear the Coveralls...not just SSBN's
4/11/2009 2:12 AM
oh yeah, and thanks to the moronic surface khaki who thought up the current NWU wear policy.
He may not be in office anymore, but his touch is still being felt. luckily, we have more desk jocky khaki looking to preserve the Navy image...they seem more than happy to follow in the prior illustrious leaders footsteps (ex-MCPON)
just thought of something else as well.
The NWU is expensive as hell. The new seabag loadout is gonna cost alot of money. It's hard for me to justify the cost of this uniform vs. it's practicality.
and yes, I know the uniform allowance is supposed to offset the cost to purchase. But from what I've seen of the purchase price lists...the Uniform allowance isn't even close to covering the cost of initial purchase.
upkeep/replace worn NWU on a case by case basis...yes
4/11/2009 2:19 AM
Tons of comments to catch up on here
a) 630-738: Nisbett was a pretty decent XO, too. (Providence, '03.) He is a good skipper too. Personal experience on that one.
b) MM1: don't worry, you can't see the other services' ranks until your up close either. I routinely walk up on general's and get flustered because I couldn't tell. Usually I go with the, hmm.. you look a bit older... probably going to outrank me.
c) I think the MCPON will relax the rules once we get the rolled out. Remember, it's politics. You can't come in and start changing things without being somewhat disingenuous to the outgoing guy. give it time.
d) I've worn poopy suits since middy cruises back in the 90's on Fast Attacks.
e) A lot of guys have commented on the "loss of identity" that wearing fatigues gives to the naval service, and I think there's some merit to that. One guy I was talking with brought up that we are "the elegant service. We don't crawl in the mud, we don't sit in holes in the ground. We do elegant things, so we should keep our different, slightly more elegant, look." I don't know that elegant is the right word for it, but there's some merit in what he's saying.
f) HAPPY BIRTHDAY SUB FORCE!!!!!
submarines once....
4/11/2009 10:18 AM
I'm going to develop and market a NWU pattern face mask so guys can disappear into the bilges and outboards like turkey hunters.
Hah Chief Howard and screw your 8 "D" cell mag light (saber)!
4/11/2009 11:21 AM
He might have very well meant 'moral' as in, "the new uniforms instill morals the same way these glasses do."
4/11/2009 2:33 PM
Holy Hell! Nice BCGs (Birth Control Glasses) I had to wear those fucking things for basic and Security Police school. No contacts were allowed until you got to your permanent duty station.
It doesn't matter how skilled you are at talking a girl into bed, or how drunk you get her before the night is over...Lol. Wearing a pair of BCGs is a sure fire way of never ever getting laid. Just as solid a concept as death and taxes.
Thanks, J.
4/11/2009 3:00 PM
"Oh' and MCPON West does read this board too. I've actually seen the main page of this site on his PC when laying the morning report on his desk."
If he is reading this at work, NMCI is going to be all over like white on rice!
The again, maybe he doesn't have to follow the rules of the average Sailor?
4/11/2009 7:41 PM
Geee ya think?? The MCPON has a little more latitude than the average sailor. He's the one who makes up the damn rules. Shut the hell up and wait. You're in line just like the rest of us.
4/11/2009 7:53 PM
Half* the sub force reads this blog on NMCI machines.
*based on an unscientific poll of submarine staffs I have worked on.
4/11/2009 11:05 PM
As far as I'm aware, there is no reason this site or any of the content within it would give the NMCI auto-censor reason to block it.
On shore duty (granted that ended late in '04), we were allowed to freely surf the Internet on NMCI machines, as long as we followed the User Agreement (no porn, not to interfere w/ work, on breaks or lunch, blah blah blah).
I spent alot of time on sites alot less relevant than this one w/ no repercussions while using an NMCI machine on shore duty. My boss and our OIC didn't mind (both would frequently forward links unrelated to work) and we always had our mission taskings accomplished ahead or on schedule.
While surfing the auto-block came up many, many times (NRNE), & I never received so much as a phone call or e-mail from the IT weenies.
The only guys I've seen get in trouble were doing things they shouldn't have (porn or porn-lite, or surfing instead of standing watch).
I think it is completely appropriate that the MCPON would view a blog like this to get the pulse from part of the fleet. It gets harder to get HONEST feedback out of the guys you really want it from the higher you get up the food chain. Not many folks would be as critical (constructively or otherwise) in most of the big forums the MCPON has available to obtain fleet input.
STSC(SS)
4/12/2009 12:13 AM
Yannow, we had a chop who preferred the Coastie version of the poopie suit: same color, similar fabric, but shirt and pants rather than a one piece. It made a lot of sense: if you rip the seat of the pants you still have a shirt, and most importantly you didn't drop your sleeve on the deck or in the bowl when in the head.
4/12/2009 6:42 AM
Maybe he's here trying to put some names with some handles. I know it just irritates the bejezus out of the higher ups if any of us peons speak our minds. The Army has shut plenty of blogs lately. It's a good thing Joel is retired.
4/12/2009 7:22 AM
I tried to access the blog last week on NMCI...no joy. They (Big Navy and DOD) is dropping the hammer on computer usage due to Chinese attacks.
4/12/2009 9:36 AM
a) NMCI is horrible
b) they havent had a problem with me reading it for the last year or so......
4/12/2009 9:38 AM
As far as NMCI and this blog - just like the Naval Institute blogs, this can reasonably be seen as professional military education. Almost all of the "anti-navy" comments here are really constructive criticism from people who hold the Navy in some affection.
I'd be more concerned about viewing CDR Salamander, which is openly hostile to certain (dumb) aspects of naval personal policies.
4/12/2009 11:08 AM
1) RE: Anon @ 9:36..... I call bullshit.
2) RE: The NWU..... it amuses me that so many people say they hate the new uniform, especially since they aren't wearing it. It seems that the ones complaining are the ones who would complain about anything. I was in Norfolk last week (I'm based in Groton) and talked with many fellow sailors who where wearing it and heard nothing bad about it at all. I have mine now.
-STS2
4/12/2009 5:33 PM
If we could just ease up on the off base restriction regarding the NWU. Everything will work out fine. Hopefully this time next year, that will happen.
MT2 WidgetHead
4/12/2009 5:59 PM
Well, I am retired. So I really have no room to whine about the uniform. If it is comfortable, and makes the guys in the fleet happy...then GREAT!
But given what I have read regarding the policy on off base wear....I can't go with that.
If I was still in, I'd be very upset. I didn't like being treated like a second class citizen then, and I doubt my outlook would have improved enough to go along with this.
Civvies to work, poopies at work, civvies home. I was not ashamed of my uniforms, but apparently the "higher ups" were. And, since they are generally the ones that made us wear the uniforms in question....
4/12/2009 7:49 PM
I was in Norfolk last week and they have changed over to the new uniforms. The guys I met with had nothing but good comments about the uniform. I am stationed on the West coast and was tempted to buy the new stuff and ship it home. I probably should have since the exchange at NORVA is much bigger than Bangor or PSNS. When the time comes, I will get the uniform and wear it with pride. I will still wear coveralls in the plant.
The new jacket will be nice here in the PNW.
4/12/2009 8:35 PM
The comments from folks who have worn the NWU, on this forum and off, have been overwhelmingly positive. As such, I suggest we limit our collective disdain for the wear policy.
I've also heard good things about the new service uniform. Just saw an HM wearing one to work in Bethesda the other day. My only suggest would be to put crows on the sleeve rather than those idiotic looking pins.
4/12/2009 9:57 PM
Maybe the new uniforms would make it easier for me to pull my favorite gag. Start a salute, wait for the eager JO to snap a full salute, then complete my salute and say "carry on". - Ex-nuc who didn't always salute.
4/13/2009 6:29 AM
anon @0629:
and we wonder why enlisted get painted with a broad brush of disdain. It's because of guys like you.
4/13/2009 7:22 AM
On NMCI right now
apparently they aren't filtering a damn thing
4/13/2009 10:21 AM
Bubblehead - FYI, if I remember correctly, Thad Nisbett is originally from the Boise area (Nampa, I think).
4/13/2009 11:21 AM
I spent my time as an enlisted man and then completed a BSEE at a major university. Had my circumstances prior to high school graduation been different, I may very well have joined as an officer. In my experience, only the weak officers (who had to "command" respect rather than earn it)treated enlisted men with disdain. I don't know your personal story, and you clearly don't understand mine. I was merely attempting to add some humor to the uniform conversation.
I hope that your views are not shared by the majority of readers here.
All the best.
4/13/2009 3:02 PM
I've been in the navy for just over 20 years, and for the first time since I joined, I'm actually embarassed to wear my uniform...
4/17/2009 8:27 AM
When I first heard they were considering this uniform I thought, "Gee, blue and grey camoflage, just what I want to be wearing when I fall overboard." Should have gone with hunter blaze orange.
On a personal note, when you add in the boots and jacket it's a damned expensive uniform for your average reservist JO to buy for a dozen weekends. My personal intentions are to try to stay in Service Khaki unless ordered otherwise.
4/17/2009 3:49 PM
Bubblehead and anonymous, Nisbett is from Idaho - Boise, actually.
7/11/2009 12:55 AM
The writer is totally fair, and there is no question.
3/30/2012 2:46 PM
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