Keeping the blogosphere posted on the goings on of the world of submarines since late 2004... and mocking and belittling general foolishness wherever it may be found. Idaho's first and foremost submarine blog. (If you don't like something on this blog, please E-mail me; don't call me at home.)

Thursday, November 21, 2013

Do "Ultra-Heavy" Iranian Submarines Get PUCs? I Think Not.

I was intrigued by the news from Iran that they were deploying an "ultra-heavy" submarine (the old Kilo-class boat Younus) along with a "destroyer" (actually a 1500 ton frigate) and "helicopter carrier" (actually a 4700 ton supply ship) to India and Sri Lanka. The surface ships are both 40 years old, and the submarine is about half that age. I'll admit that I'll be impressed if all three ships actually make it to their destinations and get back home without having to get towed at some point.

It says something about our potential adversaries when when refer to an old Kilo as "ultra-heavy" -- which it kind of is compared to their tiny toy mini-subs -- but real navies recognize that "ultra-heavy" boats are more along the lines of my old boat USS Jimmy Carter (SSN 23), which -- oh by the way -- just had a Presidential Unit Citation posted on the Navy Awards page for operations for the 356 days ending 19 Nov 2012.

Take that, Carter-disparagers!

Completely off topic, this story of the snooping wife, despite a senior officer losing his career, is funny in a way that only Navy people can fully appreciate.

Update 0853 22 Nov: Adding a couple of additional unrelated stories to make this even more of a "compilation" entry. Here's a story about morale issues among the Air Force nuclear weapons forces. I'm thinking the Navy hasn't seen the same kind of issues because the "running a submarine" mission takes much more of the average SSBN Sailor's time than the "nuclear weapons" aspect of the job. Or is the Navy seeing the same issues that we're just better at keeping under wraps?

Every month, the Navy webpage posts a summary of Special and General Courts Martial held in the previous month. The compilation for October had one from Great Lakes that kind of jumped out at me:
At a Special Court-Martial in Great Lakes, Illinois, GMSN [doesn't matter what his name is], USN pleaded guilty to indecent language. On 17 October 2013, the military judge sentenced him to be discharged with a Bad Conduct Discharge, forfeit 2/3 pay per month for 3 months, reduction in rank to paygrade E-1, and confinement for 3 months.
A Big Chicken Dinner and three months in the brig for "indecent language"? Now, I don't know the specifics behind the kind of indecent language used, but I'm assuming it was for really really indecent language of a sexual or racial nature directed at a person who would reasonably be offended by such language. On the other hand, if the Navy is prosecuting Sailors for saying bad words in general, I know a lot of people -- including myself -- would wouldn't have lasted very long in the service.

What's the most ridiculous charge you've ever seen someone brought up on under the UCMJ?


Anonymous Anonymous said...

A Navy Chief I worked with at CSS7 Pearl, was running around with an E-2 female in the same command. It got found out, he had his LDO package removed and transferred to a different command. She was sent to the Willamette and the Commodore held a muster stating the next transgression would be met with Court Martial.

11/22/2013 6:07 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

It was a pleasant surprise to see this finally came through after waiting so long. A pretty good feeling.

11/22/2013 7:25 AM

Anonymous SparkyWT said...

So IT2 brings home a FOUO NIPR laptop (at least I hope it was only NIPR) and his wife gets access. Options are:
* He logged in and left the screen unlocked or his spouse got his CAC and PIN. This doesn't explain how the CAG's e-mail account was on the laptop, therefore
* Did he take the CAG's gov't laptop home?
* Did he specifically access the CAG's pst mailbox and copy it to the laptop from the command server?
* If he copied the CAG's mail, how many other pst mailboxes were moved?
* What other Sailor PKI data was compromised?
* Has IT2 sent his resume to the NSA?

CAG screwed up so he'll pay for his mistake but IT2 and spouse are in a world of trouble if the CAG decides to lawyer up and file punative damages against them for ID/PKI theft.

Also the command should hold IT2 accountable for the unauthorized removal and misuse of gov't property.

11/22/2013 8:04 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is even worse than that.

The IT2 brought home a "portable HDD", with copies of emails from other individuals on it, that weren't addressed to him.

What possible reason would he have to go copy emails out of someone else's account onto his personal (probably unauthorized) HDD?

His wife was able to get at this PPI probably because his HDD was completely unprotected. I mean, do you password protect your thumb drives?

In the wake of the fallout from Edward Snowden, where a contractor roamed freely in others accounts, copying data at will, I suspect that this IT2 is going to get hammered hard. He will get fired. His LPO and Chief will get fired. This sort of activity is not supposed to happen.

11/22/2013 8:23 AM

Blogger submandave said...

Ahhh, the first of probably many "you did good stuff" awards for the projects boat. In a similar vein, I remember an LDO LT at DEVGRU whose record I was reviewing prior to a board who had two LOMs, both basically saying "you did good stuff in 198X."

IIRC you commissioned the Carter, but did you get to deploy with her?

11/22/2013 9:08 AM

Blogger Bubblehead said...

Actually, I didn't commission the Carter, I was her initial manning Eng as my 2nd Eng tour for a couple of years. I was initial manning and commissioning Eng on Connecticut, and was on her through the first ORSE.

11/22/2013 9:23 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

A fellow nuke was standing AMR2LL watch when an A-Ganger wandered into the space. The nuke sprayed the A-ganger using a bottle of water. The A-Ganger took a swing at the nuke, but ended up getting his ass beat. The CO & XO really hated the nuke and took him to mast, but did nothing to the A-ganger. They pretty much lost all respect from me at that point.

11/22/2013 12:28 PM

Anonymous SparkyWT said...

Anon @ 0823: i hope every Sailor who was compromised by IT2's soon to be ex, sues her conniving ass. The Navy will take care of "soon to be ITSR"

11/22/2013 1:57 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hooyah 2-3.

11/22/2013 3:51 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"What's the most ridiculous charge you've ever seen someone brought up on under the UCMJ?"

Adultery. Every time someone gets charged with it. Fucking ridiculous.

11/22/2013 5:12 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

In the aviation community, it is my understanding that senior Officers routinely have IT back up their PST's to a disk for transfer to/from the office and whichever carrier they're tagging along on. Wouldn't surprise me if the kid simply had it on a thumb drive or small portable HDD (although I thought the USB was disabled on all DoD computers? Or is that just SIPR?). The wife is an idiot, and so is the flyboy, and so is the flight surgeon.

Funniest charge I saw was an instance of MM1 (A-Ganger) punching a door and breaking his hand. Destruction of Gov't property (himself). Had to be Med-Evac'ed off from deployment.

11/22/2013 5:43 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was in the boomer community in the late 1980's and early 1990's....still time enough for the Cold War but still time for the Air Force to commission a study about the "morality" of nuclear war for their prospective nuke silo officers...

It was a hoot to watch...air force men and women bravely wondering what they would do if ever given the order to launch...

Coincidentally I had a college classmate who went through Air Force nuke silo training at the same time. He asked me one time if the Navy every did the same thing to us that the Air Force did to him?

After much laughter I pointed out that the Navy assumed we were pretty much good with the whole nuclear annihilation thing by the fact that we were still doing our job and that besides, in my opinion anyone who graduated from AWEPS school and did not realize high high the rubble would bounce following a 16 missile ripple launch was not paying attention!

The boomer community made nuclear war a side job to being a competent submariner...

11/22/2013 7:34 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Favorite mast was for adultery as well - guy from my crew AND his wife were having sex with the wife of a guy on the other crew.

Story came out when other crew guy gets home and finds out what is happening. He gets pissed off and gets a DUI while trying to drive on base to kick our guy's a$$.

If I remember correctly the penalty was a suspended bust and a suspended fine - aka nothing.

11/22/2013 8:09 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

A trio of sailors and their wives on the Bremerton had a 3 way which went bad and the resulting sailors and wives divorced their other half, married the other respective sailors in the trio. Got so bad they had to send the three different sailors to other commands. But not masted. Probably would have been too sordid in the minutes.

11/23/2013 5:02 AM

Anonymous SparkyWT said...

Had two guys in Norfolk late1980s who linked up with two "single moms", each mom with 1 kid. Our intrepid submariners rent a nice 3Br house and proceed to get busy. We are diong the weekly ops thing and over several months each of our heroes had the opportunity to remain inport for school. Of course they both claimed to be carrying on threesomes with the gals. Well, a few months go by and we head out for some work yps. Upon our return our heroes go home and find the house occupied by two skimmer guys claiming to be the husbands. Police and shore patrol are called, yelling, screaming, and the skipper of the CGN (the skimmers were nukes) summond our CO &COB for a pow wow. No mast but our heroes lost their lease down payment and the $$ the gals stripped from the joint bank account.

11/23/2013 9:13 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

In the Air Force, there is a huge gulf between rated pilots/navs and everyone else (and the only really cool kids are FIGHTER pilots). Their anointed minority is very comfortable treating everyone else as sub-human. There was a time when Curt LeMay carved out a little respect for the strategic community, but those days are long past.

The only Navy community I can think of that is like the ICBM folks is IUSS (back in the day, you'd see a GURL and wonder what that was above her ribbons). I think that, over time, we got a little better about recognizing the contribution of IUSS. I'd be surprised if life for Missile Control folks has gotten anything but worse and if their job gets anything but harder.

As much flack as the Navy gives boomer fags like me, I was still a submariner. And, despite a short career, I had quite a few opportunities to embarrass skimmers and even a few SSNs from the conn of a 726 or 734 boat.

Missile Control folks never get that rush, nor the thrill that comes from (successfully) going to sea and going in harm's way (if you don't think boomers do that, there is at least one summer during the Cold War that you missed).

I am not surprised that RAND is hinting to the USAF that doing something to make the equation work out might be in order.

11/23/2013 2:36 PM

Anonymous 3383 said...

Amid the D&Os from near Horton laza was one poor soul who dug a pair of olive drab batteries out of the trash for his music device. Got a nonsupended bust + the rest for misappropriating gov't property.

11/23/2013 5:41 PM

Anonymous Ex ANav said...

I went to Mast (as a QM1) for "Improper wearing of the uniform during an offical ships picture". The crew was all decked out in Salt & Peppers, hull numbers stuck to the sail, crew in ranks and I put on a Halloween mask just as the photgrapher was snapping the picture from the tender. Went to mast with 19 statements against me. All 19 were threatend with NJP if they didn't spill the beans. $50/month for 2 months. 2 years later mast again for a fight. The real story to be told, I was in advanced to Chief in 8.5 years w/2 NJPs as an E-6. Ultamately retired as a CWO4. BTW, only guy at the SEA wearing red stripes!

11/25/2013 5:57 AM

Anonymous Cupojoe said...

It can't be that hard to serve on the Jimmy Carter. It's almost a boomer.

11/25/2013 1:26 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I went to mast for "sleeping on watch".

Was sitting in SRO chair and had the drooping eyelids when the Eng came walking into manuevering at 2:30AM

This had come two weeks after our CO had put out ultimatum saying, "next guy caught sleeping" will pay price. And I was that next guy.....

Now, the guy who got away with one was in the enginee room actually laying down and hiding to catch some Zs. Not exactly the same as sitting in manu. by yourself during the overnight with the nodsies.

Loss of 1/2 months pay and went from EM2 to EM3. Had just gotten married so the loss of pay was significant. And from that point on I did everyting I could to fuck the Navy back as much as possible.

11/25/2013 7:26 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"almost a boomer" hahahaha

11/26/2013 10:28 AM

Blogger a_former_elt_2jv said...

Lol. Sleeping on watch.

Reminds me of the time that I was in ERF taking pump leadoff measurement. I put my head forward against the feed piping, it was warm, and I fell asleep for maybe 30 seconds. The CO, who never really walked around the ER ever, walks up, and asks what I'm doing. Without skipping a beat, I pulled the poly bottle with hose rig out, and told him pump gland leadoff. Turns out, it was right in the middle of not too much, and not enough. CO moved on.

Quite the close call. Never happened to nod off on watch again.

11/26/2013 12:06 PM

Blogger a_former_elt_2jv said...

*leakoff. Stupid autocorrect.

11/26/2013 12:07 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Speaking of PUCs, didn't they just give all the boomer fags a ribbon for doing their job too?

11/26/2013 9:32 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yeah the SSBN force got a blanket MUC back in 2012, but the Academy gets one regularly, so.....

I suppose I'll raise an eyebrow when one earns a NUC.

Oh, and, the 23 boat is NOTHING like a boomer

11/27/2013 5:57 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

A guy got ticketed for a DUI, went to mast (typical), then the CO got the bright idea to witch-hunt the guys he was out with that night for letting him do it.

Ultimately went nowhere, thankfully, but that was great for morale let me tell you.

11/27/2013 9:52 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I went to mast for "sleeping on watch".

Was sitting in SRO chair and had the drooping eyelids when the Eng came walking into manuevering at 2:30AM

This had come two weeks after our CO had put out ultimatum saying, "next guy caught sleeping" will pay price. And I was that next guy.....

Now, the guy who got away with one was in the enginee room actually laying down and hiding to catch some Zs. Not exactly the same as sitting in manu. by yourself during the overnight with the nodsies.

Loss of 1/2 months pay and went from EM2 to EM3. Had just gotten married so the loss of pay was significant. And from that point on I did everyting I could to fuck the Navy back as much as possible.

Your ENG should have read the 9210. It addresses the difference between being 'inattentive on watch' and 'sleeping on watch.'

You were 'inattentive on watch' based on what you described, and your eng was a douche for not kicking your chair, making you stand up, getting you a cup of coffee, maybe getting you relieved if he felt you absolutely couldn't stay awake.

11/27/2013 9:55 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

9:55AM, trust me the whole thing was a boondoggle. This came on the heels of a bunch of issues on our boat in the yards. CO was sick of dealing with DUIs, bar fights, improper tag outs, etc so this became a lightening rod.

Eng was a douchebag and I got lulled into thinking it would end at the XO screening. Boy did I guess that wrong. Even my chief was pissed it went anywhere.

We'd been cycling from port and stupid duty days in between shift work for evolutions so everyone was wiped out. This was on a Saturday morning after having been on to work at 3AM on Friday morning with no sleep. Made no difference as an example had to be made. I did not think I'd get knocked down in rank either. I was ready to walk off the boat that day and not come back.

Obviously crew morale and sleep was secondary to the needs of a douche CO to get the boat out on schedule.

11/27/2013 1:26 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...


"Obviously crew morale and sleep was secondary to the needs of a douche CO to get the boat out on schedule." -Anon

You know what? In submarines crew morale and sleep must be secondary to the mission of any CO, and they are rarely, if ever, "douches".

Art Apollo

11/27/2013 5:55 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree with Apollo. Poor followers cannot be good leaders.

11/27/2013 7:02 PM

Blogger DDM said...

Funny I never caught a guy sleeping on watch. I must of made too much noise when I was walking up to them.

11/28/2013 8:38 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

For an somewhat related story; It was about 0400 and we were doing some calibrations that required unique conditions. I was near the air-conditioning units making their normal drone with my clipboard for data taking. The next thing I hear on the sound powered phones is "data takers stand by for data set 5". I look down and my data sheet is empty. Notified the EWS and was cleaning the PLO bay for the rest of the patrol.

11/28/2013 7:22 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

5:55, my whole deal showed a glaring issue with too much discretion of CO's at mast. I should never have lost a stripe and the case should have died at the XOI.

About 12 years ago I reached out to my old CO. He remembered the case and he said, in essence, that I was a "victim of cirucumstance" as to the punishment I received. I don't recall the exact words but he did think in retrospect the punishment didn't fit the "crime".

He didn't call himself a douche but his words did indicate that a rewind of the case would get a different response. So that says something about how it was handled back "in the day". This was in 1991.

The loss of pay created some real issues for me, elminated my ability to get a GCM, and gave me the worst attitude of any sailor in the fleet. Nothing good game out of it for me or the Navy. A masting is a near death sentence for promotion and sadly it seems blue shirt careers are considered throw away.

I could go into a lot more detail but the "example" made of a nuc who nodded off while in the chair did nothing. Our boat still had the typical unplanned losses seen in the yards by many other commands.

Never in a million years did I think I'd be the one standing on the carpet at mast. And yet there I was...

11/28/2013 8:00 PM

Anonymous NHSparky said...

IIRC, it was at Great Mistakes when the CO's Mast results came out in one of the POD's where a GM student was charged with, "Improper Urination on a Desk."

You mean to tell me there's a proper way to do it?

11/28/2013 8:21 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Whenever I knew I would be attempting to catch a few Zs as the midwatch SRO, I always made sure I had an early warning system. And yes, I did intentionally sleep . . . without a damn bit of regret. Three section duty, P&S on the watch bill with zero sleep on duty days as routine will very quickly develop that attitude. I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

11/28/2013 10:40 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Friend charged for carving a cock-and-balls on the EDO's hardhat, friend charged for underage drinking for being present in a DUI vehicle (thrown out by commodore), students charged for dereliction for world of warcraft addiction...but the best was a non-charge: zero let off with a wrist slap for choking his wife on his front lawn.
Silliest investigation: NCIS poser dusting a DTS PLO pump switch for fingerprints after someone started it. I told the guy you are going to find every rover's fingerprints on it. Needless to say, the culprit was never found.

1/10/2014 12:49 PM


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