The Soul Of A Submarine
Check out this photo from last month's arrival of USS Hawaii (SSN 776) to her new homeport of Pearl Harbor, in which a Kahuna bestows a blessing on the boat:
I think any ceremony seeking favor for a ship is a good thing. As all mariners know (but might not want to admit), all major ships do have "souls" -- made up of the toil, blood, sweat, and yes, even tears, of everyone who has ever worked and sailed on her. Ceremonies from the times of antiquity to now have emphasized the important role religion plays in protection from the perils of the sea. I hope that we always remember this part of our heritage.
posted by Bubblehead at 8:00 AM
85 Comments:
Bless them all
8/18/2009 9:38 AM
"I think any ceremony seeking favor for a ship is a good thing."
Favor from whom or what? I think any ceremony that involves chanting to an imaginary, mystical being is monumental waste of time. I look at that assclown blowing into a seashell and I only think one thing: "You're holding up my liberty.".
"the important role religion plays in protection from the perils of the sea."
Really? Care to provide proof? Skilled shipbuilding and skilled crews provide protection from the perils of the sea. Religion never has and never will provide protection from anything. Ever.
8/18/2009 10:28 AM
To anon @ 10:28AM
Ease up. If religion does not play an important role on our ships, then should we get rid of the chaplins? Everyone has their own beliefs and I respect yours even if they are not my own.
I can also identify with anything that holds up liberty. I see sailors on deck at attention and officers on the sail lounging against the rails during this.
Whatever beliefs that individual on the pier has (I won't call him an a$$ clown), I respect them. Those beliefs play a big part in Hawaii and good relations with the locals are important.
Have you ever saw the 'mother of all waves" bearing down on your ship and though Oh God, here it comes.
8/18/2009 10:58 AM
Well at least the officers are wearing a harness.
8/18/2009 10:59 AM
There are some interesting tales about the Kahunas and the building of Pearl Harbor, especially Dry Dock 1 at the shipyard. The Navy in Hawaii has always respected the Hawaiian traditions and this welcome is no exception. I wonder is this is the same Kahuna that blew the Conch Shell at the Hawaii Commissioning in Groton. That added a special difference to the commissioning ceremony
8/18/2009 11:00 AM
anon 1028, a majority of sailors, skimmer or boat sailors, hold some kind of talisman in their hearts. They may not have a formal one, IE a crucifix in their pocket, but on the boats I rode, when things got scarier than they should, I saw more than a few nuckle draggin', liberty port sinnin', blasphemy spewin' submarine sailors pass a whisper or a loud request, toward one of those "imaginary, mystical beings" to augment the training and experience they had, to "please" let us get outta this one.
I've had liberty fucked up for a lot less than than this stuff.
Go have a beer, relax, after the COB says so. There were many more things that the NAV could come up with, to screw up libs, many much more trivial.
8/18/2009 11:09 AM
Anonymous@1028
So how do you know it does not any good? What about your shipmates? Perhaps they feel differently than you do.
Think about this. Skills are important, but chance is important too. If you find yourself in a situation that is "hopeless", the ability to have faith in something beyond your skills may keep hope alive, and help you find a way to survive.
8/18/2009 11:10 AM
Anon 1028
While we all are endowed by our Creator with Free Will to believe in him or not, we always do well to use care in how voice our opinions with respect to him. A handy rule of thumb that I have always used is “if you believe in Him or not, it’s a good idea not to piss God off too much.”
As for proof, as with all matters of Faith, it requires a faith that you apparently don’t have, meaning that any proof that you would believe doesn’t exist. As for me, I will continue to remember you, and all of my submarine brothers, each time that I “chant” to the “mystical being.”
Joel,
I believe that things would go much better on all of the Navy’s vessels if they were Blessed in a manner similar to the east coast tradition of the annual “Blessing of the Fleet.”
8/18/2009 11:14 AM
Anon 1028
Lighten up Francis.
I’ve been through three of these and he blows the Conch as the lines are going over. He’s not holding anybody up.
8/18/2009 11:56 AM
If there's one thing our Navy needs to hold onto, it's tradition. Once a tradition is gone, it's gone forever. I value all of our traditions and feel a kinship with all the Sailors that have come before me whenever we engage in a time-honored tradition.
Anon @ 1028, If you want a service that has a minimum of tradition to impede your liberty, I suggest you join the Chair Force.
8/18/2009 12:08 PM
anon:10:28,
Your pretty angry about something. It's pretty clear your focus is soley on yourself and f**k the rest.
Where do you stand on seamans tradition of crossing the equator and the transition from pollywog to shell back? The realm of the Golden Dragon, being a Bluenose? Davy Jones, a pig and a chicken tattooed on your feet, and other traditions of seagoing men and women?? How about ceremonies of keel laying? Commissioning ceremonies?
Just glad I'm not sailing aboard ship with you Jonah.
My two cents and keep a zero bubble............
DBFTMC(SS)USNRET
8/18/2009 12:25 PM
ANON 1028 Somebody got up on the wrong side of the rack. ease up there Beavis. Laugh, Live and just enjoy what tradition is left in the Navy. By any chance are you related to Mr Mulligan.
8/18/2009 12:48 PM
um, why all the anon 10:28 bashing? He (or she) has an opinion. How about EVERYONE lighten up?
8/18/2009 12:57 PM
Man, are you guys still getting those fungal infections on you bodies for staying under water for to long. What are those square and grey looking fungi spots on the sail? You got a billion dollar boat, you don’t care what the athletes foot sail looks like to the public? You don’t care what it represents to the world in general? Where is the Navy pride of taking care of their equipment and making it presentable to the public?
A guy like me would wonder what it represents on a broader scale?
8/18/2009 1:01 PM
There is little room in Anon1028
s heart for anyone but Anon1028.
8/18/2009 1:17 PM
Mike Mulligan is an idiot.
8/18/2009 1:42 PM
Sorry for insulting you, that is a 2 billion dollar new boat.
8/18/2009 1:46 PM
Well I knew that if I posted something out of sync here in the echo chamber it would not be well received. You girls don't disappoint. I don't have time to address specific points right now but a couple quick comments. I am neither angry nor cold hearted. I admit my post was confrontational but anger played no part in it.
FTC(SS)ret.
8/18/2009 1:51 PM
I think you and Mike Homogin should go do some Rabbit farming in Montana and leave all of us alone. Seacrest Out
8/18/2009 2:00 PM
FTC(SS),
So you claim you're a retired FTC and you're advocating that we do away with a tradition that goes back as long as Sailors have gone to sea? Sure you're not an E-7?
Chief B
8/18/2009 2:34 PM
I look at that assclown blowing into a seashell and I only think one thing: "You're holding up my liberty."
Said by anon at the top of the comments, I had to agree with THAT statement, for I would be thinking the same thing...but then again, wouldn't we all???
8/18/2009 2:59 PM
Sorry for insulting you, that is a 2 billion dollar new boat.
Mike does make a good point. The sail looks like crap.
8/18/2009 3:00 PM
nah, that sail doesn't look like crap. you should see the Hartford's.
8/18/2009 3:18 PM
FTC (Ret),
Your post may not have stemmed from anger, but it sure contained an awful lot. I have to agree with the Chief B. No true Chief Petty Officer would incite the type of anger that you spewed all over this blog. I'm reminded of what my first Chief, an avowed athiest, told us in regards to prayers: If you believe, pray. If you don't, take a nap standing up. Try not to fall on someone. He never complained about others beliefs, and we never complained about his lack of belief.
Obviously you learned absolutely nothing the day you pinned those anchors on. The most important thing I learned was this: Everyone has value, and that includes their beliefs and passions. I may not agree with them, but I honor them just the same.
Sorry pal, you're no Chief to me.
8/18/2009 3:38 PM
Why did they let it get that bad?
8/18/2009 3:54 PM
I have to agree with 630-738. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. It's pointless and rude as hell to stomp on everyone else because their beliefs don't exactly tally with yours. Plus, the two COBs I've served under want their liberty just as bad as we do. Both did their best to get us off the boat ASAFP. So, no-one is holding up anything. Blaming a potential holdup on a quaint ceremony, is a BS excuse.
As for the soul of the boat, yeah, it's a big deal regarding tradition.
My favorite tradition is watching a couple of ex-NUBS trying to down a full pitcher of beer in 60 seconds while trying to catch their dolphins in their teeth. Most of the beer ends up down their chin and on their chest, but it's still a traditional and great way to welcome the newbies into the brotherhood.
Ya don't fuck with tradition. It's that simple.
8/18/2009 4:07 PM
Nice BONDO putty smeared all over the brandee-new $2B submarine's sail.
I'd say it looks like a french whore, but that would be a disservice to french ho's.
Got Black Paint?
8/18/2009 4:46 PM
I like the local support.
I wish we had good SHT paint.
It's nice that god watches out for the subs. Too bad god hated the Scorpion and the Thresher...
Can't have it both ways. If god makes the good, he brought you the bad as well. It's funny that god never takes the blame but he always gets the credit.
I'll go stow my soapbox now.
8/18/2009 5:02 PM
On KAM, it seemed like a Kahuna was always nearby. Between them and the Buddah statues we had in various places (10K and LiBr come to mind), it's the only explanation we could come up with sometimes that a 35 year old submarine was still performing as well as it was!
My wife being Hawaiian, I'm kind of partial to their ways and customs and would always pay respects where due.
Off-topic...one of my cats is named Kahuna.
8/18/2009 5:21 PM
Yeah, I'm thinkin' some NUB went to the paint shed and asked for black paint, where the NUB manning the shed didn't know there were different types of black paint and handed him the water-based stuff.
/we sent our NUB to the PSNS paint shed to get non-skid. Didn't think to tell him to get black non-skid. Unfortunately Haze-Gray looks pretty black when wet...
//only boat on the waterfront with a racing stripe.
-LT L
8/18/2009 5:26 PM
Yeah, I'm thinkin' some NUB went to the paint shed and asked for black paint, where the NUB manning the shed didn't know there were different types of black paint and handed him the water-based stuff.
Never was a deck-div bubba, so forgive me if this question sounds rhetorical: Other than aesthetics, what value is added by painting the SHT? It's black already. Again, forgive my ignorance, but I'm also an old-school boat owner who still refuses to apply any finish whatsoever to exterior teak. Steel wool once in a while works just fine, thanks.
8/18/2009 5:32 PM
I went to a catholic high school. We played sports against other catholic high schools. All catholic high schools pray for victory.
Our football prayers were terrible - lost all games one season.
But our basketball prayers were wonderful and one year they were so good that we even went to the state tournament (where, alas, we ran into even more powerful prayers from some really tall kids from a much bigger school).
Amazing the power of prayer. On any given undertaking with a 50/50 chance of success ... prayers work about half the time. Training and leadership will up those odds.
srvd_ssn_co: again in violent agreement.
8/18/2009 6:07 PM
Keep those thoughts, Rubber Ducky -on your death bed.
LOL, - Rex
8/18/2009 6:52 PM
"...the important role religion plays in protection from the perils of the sea."
I agree. I remember on my 3rd week of liberty in Subic as the girl is getting undressed "Oh God, not again!".
8/18/2009 7:03 PM
Ducky, SSN_CO;
Funny thing about prayer: If you believe it works, often it does. That's not really the point, is it? The point is it's just plain stupid and narrow-minded to shit on someone else's belief system just because you don't.
8/18/2009 7:12 PM
Yep, 630-733, speaks for what America has been about. Could not agree more.
And SSN_CO, you have finally provided your number - 666. Rex
8/18/2009 7:27 PM
Hey YNC, thanks for insulting every atheist to ever serve. We appreciate it. You know, we respectfully sit through your benedictions and invocations, the least you could do is ditch the entering argument that says we're either cowards or liars.
8/18/2009 7:57 PM
New camo scheme, like the new uniforms. Ya gotta love a force that puts its officers in new style dungarees and then paints the sail to match.
8/18/2009 8:53 PM
srvd_ssn_co
The point of God is hope. What good is God if He takes the blame for both the good and the bad?
8/18/2009 8:54 PM
Wow, what a hen-party/bitch-fest this has turned into.
Why is it so difficult to comprehend that you simply don't trample on another man's beliefs. I don't give a damn if a guy is a Catholic, a Jew, a Southern Baptist or a Satin Worshiper.
To each their own and leave it at that.
8/18/2009 10:19 PM
Satin? Who would worship satin when there is a choice of cotton and polyester?
You are free to believe as you will, but truth can take questioning. It is a long standing problem for most world religions to deal with the bad in the world. Not to surprisingly, they have yet to put forth solid answers.
8/19/2009 4:33 AM
Satin? Who would worship satin when there is a choice of cotton and polyester?
Down here (S FLA), too many folks who shouldn't seem to worship Spandex.
You gotta love this blog. You just never know where these comments are going to go next. I'm anxiously awaiting the time when we start a vigorous debate on whether or not to keep cats in the house. LOL
8/19/2009 5:59 AM
yep, same guy who did the ceremony for keel laying, christening, and commissioning. Retired Master Sgt. Raymond Ganotise of the Hawaii National Guard.
The sail needs some TLC, but it is hard to get SHT paint to stick to the sail. The boat is not new (2 years 10 months since sea trials), and left Groton on May 22. Submarine sails only look pretty for a few days after drydock.
8/19/2009 6:26 AM
Who would worship satin when there is a choice of cotton and polyester?
I guess someone could even worship naugahide, but the animal groups would protest the killing of all the Naugas.
8/19/2009 6:30 AM
What Guardie wouldn't want to put on a dress then blow raspberries at a squid crew?
8/19/2009 6:42 AM
And BTW, San Diego's Cake Lady can kick the Big Kahuna's ass.
8/19/2009 8:33 AM
I lived in San Diego for 15 years and never heard of the cake lady. Is she some lesbo from the Nob Hill area? I'd like some of that cake....
Also, you twits keep referring to God as He or Him as if God is a male. I'm a man haten lesbo and I think God is a She. So can't we refer to Her as a Goddess once in a while?
8/19/2009 11:34 AM
The FT CHIEF speaks for many, but most of the rest of us are smart enough not to open our mouths around self-important dickwads like a poster to be referenced below. I stand with chin up, eyes open during public prayers - particularly those that are forced onto me by presumably secular government organizations like the Navy. I don't make fun of the prayers - or the prayers - but I resent being forced to participate in silly extracurricular nonsense just because my homeport changes, I get a new boss, or my boss retires.
"Not a Chief?" For having an opinion? Wow, glad I don't serve with buttslurpers like the guy who made that asinine statement. Opinionated Chiefs are a mainstay of the Navy, and vital to our operational health. Admit it: You got your panties in a wad because someone dares to publicly disbelieve in your invisible friend. Grow a skin!
If you want to have your silly ceremonies, fine. Don't get offended when I disagree, though - even publicly. My opinion is no less valid - or worthy of expression - than yours, and neither was FTCs. You guys jump on a guy for expressing an opinion that hurt your feelings, and then have the chutzpah to say HE "sounds angry." Wonder why? Experience, perhaps?
8/19/2009 11:50 AM
J:
Since you chose to call me out directly, I'll respond. First off, nice job hiding your profile. So much for "publicly" standing up for your beliefs.
Secondly, I'm not interested in engaging in a discussion about FT(E-7)'s beliefs or lack thereof. Frankly, I don't care. The problem I have with his comments, are they are not in keeping with the charter that CHIEFS are given when they pin on their anchors: That of respect and understanding for all. You obviously are not a Chief, even if you happened to advance to paygrade E-7. Don't confuse the religious connotations with respect for others. Calling a person an "Assclown" because he holds a particular belief is, as I said before, stupid and narrow-minded. If you can't see that, that's your problem, not mine. I personally couldn't care less if your opinion differs from mine, or the FTC's. Where I draw the line is when you resort to name calling and ridicule over a belief.
I have no issue with you standing eyes open, chin up during prayers. If it isn't your belief, I agree, you shouldn't be forced to pretend as such. Good on you for not ridculing others for theirs.
He's still no Chief to me. Buttslurper? Self-Important Dickwad? You show that you are completely incapable of engaging in an adult argument without resorting to self-indulgent name-calling. Notice I used no childish names in any of my postings. Grow up.
8/19/2009 12:12 PM
"I lived in San Diego for 15 years and never heard of the cake lady."
Get some time in the boat, sailor.
8/19/2009 12:23 PM
"Satin? Who would worship satin when there is a choice of cotton and polyester?"
Ouch! I walked right into that one didn't I? Just don't ask me to try and win a spelling contest, LOL.
Since Satan and Santa contain the same letters, did you know that's where the SNL Church Bitch (Dana Carvey came up with the term "Satan Twister?"
Sorry guys, I couldn't resist that one.
8/19/2009 12:58 PM
newcom_hawaii_eng said...
Yea, but that ain’t normal wear and tear, it ain’t because the paint isn’t sticky...they have been going in and out of those panels a bunch of times.
Is there something broken in there?
Back in my day they only had money to build new ships...they didn't have enough money to maintain them?
8/19/2009 1:03 PM
What Guardie wouldn't want to put on a dress then blow raspberries at a squid crew?
Classic!
8/19/2009 1:12 PM
630-738 - You've at least twice now made the statement that I am not a Chief but an E-7 because you feel I disrespected someone because I called them an assclown. I can assure you that your opinion means nothing to me ( I was at CSS-20 when you were on 738. You've got no room to be criticizing anyone) however I will tell you that my remarks were purposely antagonistic in an attempt to generate discussion and make a point. Your quick labeling of me as "not a Chief" is proof positive that it is you, not I, that lost the most important lessons of the initiation. Respond if you like, I'm done talking with you in this thread.
All - In my opinion it is well past time we quit doing things based on tradition or just because we've always done them. Religion falls squarely into that. I am so sick of our supposed leaders, both civilian and military, saying that they are praying for guidance or help from God or with God's help they're going to do X amd Y. I want one that says " I have this education, I have this life/work experience, I've surrounded myself with a staff (crew, team, whatever) who are,smart,well trained and willing to tell me no. We will do this "job" the best we can based on that and won't be asking any imaginary being for help, guidance or protection". That's what I want and what I think this country and the world needs. Just think where we might be if the last POTUS had been that. Instead we had W the born again idiot and his merry band of retards. As a result tens of thousands of lives and billions of dollars were unecessarily lost.
It is way past time that we quit using religion as a replacement for critical thinking skills, common sense and as an excuse not to evolve. The faster that happens the better off we'll be.
8/19/2009 1:14 PM
To anon 1028 and those that don't beleive,
If you truly must have proof of what can happen to one's life with a little faith, I can show you 3 million cases. With nothing more than having faith in something bigger than you they have all recovered from a hopeless state of mind and body. Where they should be dead, in prison, or in a mental hospital they are now productive members of society. I am one of those and when I was riding my first 637, I truly believed as you do. Today my life is filled with many blessings.
And isn't it grand that we are all allowed to voice these opinions in a country we humbly served, founded on a concept of faith in the almighty. A country that allows us the freedom to believe as we want to believe.
CWO3 (ret)
8/19/2009 1:17 PM
I am still laughing at ButtSlurpers.
8/19/2009 2:19 PM
CWO3 (ret) says: "I can show you 3 million cases. With nothing more than having faith in something bigger than you they have all recovered from a hopeless state of mind and body. Where they should be dead, in prison, or in a mental hospital they are now productive members of society."
Yeah, and I can show you 6 millon Jews who were Gods chosen people and it turned out just the opposite.
You can't have it both ways.
I hate discussions about religion. Nobody wins, and wars (flame or otherwise) always get started over it.
Geez, I long for the simple days when we all just got along, had one common goal, and it was hunting Commies for Christ. ;)
8/19/2009 2:36 PM
Not much happening on the mid-watch and want to get things lively to keep awake? Simple...
Talk politics or religion.
Regardless, both subjects were banned as discussion topics in my shack, as the conversations that started out friendly would typically get personal and unprofessional in a hurry. Name calling, be it calling someone an a$$hat or an E7, doesn't make you look any better.
It is like wrestling with a pig. Win or lose you end up soiled - and the pig likes it.
8/19/2009 2:47 PM
Robbie has a good point.
Every time we discuss politics or religion on this blog, it turns in to a bitter disaster like this one.
Maybe we should talk about sex instead. I'm sure plenty of guys here have a story or two about sneaking a girl into the wardroom, stateroom or Goatlocker.
Maybe this subject of choice would fare a bit better than politics and religion.
SK1(SS)
8/19/2009 2:50 PM
FTC,
You may be done talking to me in this thread, but I hope you'll at least read this response.
First off, you say you were at CSS-20 when I was on 738. I knew some really good people there. I don't remember you. Perhaps if you had gotten out of the building and down to the boats more, you might ring a bell. I'm secure in my reputation during that time, my record speaks for itself.
For the record, I have no issue with the gist of your comments. Tradition can certainly be a hindrance to progress, on that there is no question. The issue I take with your comments is clear, and I'm pretty sure you picked up on it too: Namecalling and denigrating other's beliefs. Why was it necessary to refer to the guy as an assclown? Is it not possible to have a healthy disagreement without resorting to insulting names in a feeble attempt to make that person seem somehow less than yourself? That's not what I was taught when I was being developed as a leader, I was taught to lead from the front. Standing at the side hurling insults results in no progress at all.
Your "deliberately antagonistic" comment didn't result in thoughtful debate, it resulted in a bunch of angry comments from people with strong beliefs. I'm big enough to admit that I too was caught up in that. As I said, I don't know you. I'm not really in a position to determine whether or not you are a good Chief or not, so I'll retract that statement. I'll replace it with this statement: Disrespecting others for a belief contrary to your own is not a character trait indicative of a true Chief Petty Officer.
I'm done with this thread as well. I also hate religion threads, they always end up pissing off all concerned.
8/19/2009 2:54 PM
To Mr. Anon 10:28 "assclown" commenter,
I understood from your very first comment that you were attempting to stir things up and get some discussion going around a fairly weak topic. I congratulate your success. I too do the "stir things up" thing from time to time, but admittedly without as much success.
We either have to make due and make better with what Joel dishes up, or go back to reading "Blind Man's Bluff" for the fifteenth time.
8/19/2009 2:59 PM
Things Pop (an ex-SeaBee from the big one in the Pacific) told me before I went of to RTC GLakes in '77:
1) Don't piss of the Yeoman, he'll screw up your leave count and your pay records.
2) Don't piss off the Doc....the SOB will lose your shot record.
3) Don't piss off the cooks....those bastards can make you sick as Hell and wish you were dead and not just dying.
4) Never gamble. You'll lose every cent in your pocket and then some.
5) Never, ever let yourself get goat roped into discussions about politics, religion and women.
8/19/2009 3:33 PM
"I lived in San Diego for 15 years and never heard of the cake lady."
Get some time in the boat, sailor.
Rubber Ducky,
Please enlighten a poor LANT Boat sailor :)
8/19/2009 3:51 PM
#2 & #5 are definitely still true in today's Navy. No getting around either of those.
Fortunately, #1 can and will be tracked at all times for accuracy.
That protects me and the Yeoman.
#3 can be proven or disproven in sickbay depending on the contents of your stomach and digestive system. If you're allergic to a spice or some kind of food additive that's one thing.
If it's proven that a cook purposely tried to poison you, then that cock-knocker is going to to answer for it and then some. Investigations in the galley are nothing new.
#4 Always quit when you're ahead. Don't ask for an extended line of credit either. That's just enough rope to hang yourself by the balls.
8/19/2009 3:58 PM
Robbie,
Merely stating my experience and humble opinion.
CWO3 (ret)
8/19/2009 3:58 PM
I'm all for freedom of religion. We took an oath to uphold the Constitution, right? So whatever someone wants to believe is alright with me.
My comment is more about insulting tradition. MCPON Joe Campa released the Chiefeval with "Sense of Heritage" as Block 39 for a reason. To receive a mediocre 3.0 mark, a Chief should have a:
- Good understanding of naval customs and
traditions.
- Integrates naval traditions, customs, and
practices into decision making processes,
training and daily leadership.
- Occasionally uses naval history to
demonstrate who we are as a service
I'm guessing if FTC was still in, he would rate about a 2.0 or less on this block.
8/19/2009 4:42 PM
In defense of FTC, I completely agree with him IRT traditons. Not all of them are worth keeping, many things we hold as "traditional" are keeping the Navy and society as a whole from progressing.
MCPON Campa's words would ring truer to me if he hadn't left so suddenly. I'm still wondering why.
8/19/2009 4:51 PM
I'm thinking it has to do with the Continuation Boards and that he wasn't able to stop them from being implemented.
8/19/2009 4:56 PM
True, But you're basically sitting through another Chief's board. They are looking for people who have medical problems, or bad PT scores or drinking problems or sub-standard performance.
That's all it is. Almost 70 rates are top heavy on the Khaki side and so it's time to trim the dead branches. These boards will go away in the next couple of years once our manning levels in are back to normal.
8/19/2009 5:19 PM
"I'm thinking it has to do with the Continuation Boards and that he wasn't able to stop them from being implemented."
I fail to see how weeding out ROAD program folks is a bad thing. There's a lot of dead weight in the Navy, even in the CPO ranks. Time for a purge. Continuation Boards aren't necessarily a bad idea.
I'm sure that' an unpopular position, but so be it.
8/19/2009 6:17 PM
I'm surprised that there isn't more Christian outrage over this pagan ritual.
SWEET GAIA!!!!! What's next.....the ESM mast on the USS Alaska (SSBN 732)being replaced by a fricking Totem Pole and it being raised every time they leave and enter port?????????
Brothers, we gotta stop this madness before it spreads!!!!!
8/19/2009 6:55 PM
Speaking of the Alaska, here's something new for Missile boats.
They've instituted a question & answer board on their URL. It's geared towards family members and high school kids thinking of joining our ranks.
https://www.alaska.navy.mil/html/submarine_bob.asp
8/19/2009 7:22 PM
All,
Sorry to hijack this post, but I'd like to interject something. From a Judeo-Christian standpoint, it seems to me that trusting that a ship has a soul, however comforting the notion may be, is borderline idolatry. The Navy has many fine traditions, but does anyone else feel (or not feel) that some Naval practices contradict commonly held religious beliefs? I should note that my longest underway time was a two week underway on SSN-720, so take my comments with a grain of salt.
-Ultra Nub ENS
8/19/2009 8:12 PM
Ultra Nub,
Grab an RPM and be gone. The ENG needs some copies made and he is looking for you.
Your friend,
Mike Mulligan
8/19/2009 8:40 PM
You gotta be Bullshitting me.
So, we now have Mulligan and his brother the Ultra NUB? How in the hell did this happen.
How did you two get in the Navy?
How did you get on our side?
l realize in war time they have to scrape the bottom of the barrel...but where'd they ever scrape you two up?
8/20/2009 2:23 AM
To Ultra Nub,
I think the "soul" of the ship that people speak of is more of a personality of the crew or the command, if you will.
Something you can't always put your finger on, but it there never the less. We all know that some ships seem to have more than their share of "bad luck" and some others seem to have lots of "good luck" over the lifetime of the ship. I believe this is imparted by the "command climate" and attitude of the crew. The Navy seems to recognize some of this. More than one CO has been relieved because of a bad command climate.
BTW I would not compare you with Mulligan. At least you are forthright in you lack of experience on a sub. Also, that is a catchy handle - Ultra Nub.
8/20/2009 6:00 AM
I had typed a long post, but trashed it. Instead I will say, see #27 on this page:
http://www.mooviees.com/1391/quotes
I am not in the 95%, sorry.
8/20/2009 7:24 PM
Ultra Nub:
No, Idolatry is worshiping the peasant son of a carpenter as a god. Believing a ship has a soul is Animism. Playing on the internet and talking about the soul of a ship when you're not qualified rig for dive, that's... a cuss word I cannot spell.
8/21/2009 10:56 AM
To answer the subject of the post, there is no soul of a submarine.
It's time for the Submarine Service to cease these superstitious traditions.
And, yes, that means doing away with the Chaplains.
ultra-nub's brother.
8/21/2009 10:46 PM
And did either of you last two dumbfucks even make it through BESS??
8/22/2009 1:40 AM
My original comment wasn't meant to advocate a complete withdrawl of these types of rituals, but rather to question their accordance with Abrahamic tradition. Personally, I think its real cool that the community gets out there and does stuff like this, and I have no problem with it. Not to expose my flank, but I speak from a Jewish perspective.
On a different note, while I can see how some may think that Chaplains are a violation of church and state, one must approach the situation from a realist's standpoint. Yes, the military exists to protect and defend the Constitution of the U.S. However in this noble process, many rights are given up (who ever heard of freedom of speech in the silent service?). Additionally, in order to protect and defend the Constitution, combat effectiveness must be taken into consideration. Religious sailors (likely, the majority of the fleet) are well served by a "man of the cloth" who can serve to help them in religious endeavors, and thusly improve combat effectiveness.
Take it with a grain and call me in the morning,
Ultra Nub ENS
8/22/2009 1:53 PM
Oh really guys, come on. That's the great thing about our country. Believe what you want, don't harass others for their beliefs. I'm an a Deist, and I serve aboard the boat featured in the article. I'm ashamed that people would resort to this. Sure, I think the soul of the USS Hawaii is more the blood( a lot of my own), sweat and tears of it's crew make her what she is. God doesn't have a place in my idea of a ship, or boat. But the USA is so great that we let everyone believe what they believe, and we all respect that. How about you discuss this elsewhere, where my boat is not involved. Sure, my command blows hard, but she is still my boat. I work my ass off to keep her running, and as a mechanic type, I've done plenty. No one on our boat(as far as I know) judges anyone else because of religion, because it's a non-issue. Let's be men and realize that we all differ, and come from all walks of life, to be the best in the Navy, and do one of the most demanding jobs in the force. Oh, and we did paint the sail before we got to hawaii, but we couldn't do as much as we wanted. Navy supply blows.
8/25/2009 2:29 AM
Eric,
Thanks for coming on and commenting about your sail. I suspected you guys painted, there's only so much you can do about SHT coated material. Keep working hard to keep YOUR boat looking great.
I'm a little non-plussed about you categorizing your command as "Blows hard." I've always believed that internal command problems should stay just that. No need to go on public forums and air your dirty laundry, there's enough folks to do that for you. I tried to never hinder a sailor's ability to air his complaints internally (read: I never stopped one from bitchin' on the boat), but I did encourage my guys to keep it on the ship or at home, not out in public. Just my .02, I don't expect everyone to agree.
As far as personal beliefs, I completely agree. They are personal, and should be respected as such. It doesn't matter if you disagree with them, they are personal. Disrespecting another for their beliefs, I believe, is narrow minded and plain wrong. If you believe or don't believe in a God, that's between you and your God (or not). I got carried away here blasting a fellow sailor for his comments and for that I am remorseful, but the core belief I had remains as stated above.
I'm glad you had a safe voyage to Hawaii, and wish you and your shipmates much success in future endeavors.
8/25/2009 12:24 PM
From here: Link
”I've spent nearly three decades driving submarines to ruin,” Green joked. “Now is the time to fix them, supply them, load them and send them back out to do God's work in the seas defending our great nation.”
Doing God's work? Really? I don't think so. This is exactly the type of idiocy we need to get away from. To paraphrase a great line from a so-so movie: Captain to Helmsman, " Pray quietly son. Some of us are trying to think."
8/25/2009 1:41 PM
630-738,
I'll keep your comments about me saying my command "blows hard." It isn't really the right thing to say and should be kept on that level.
8/28/2009 11:16 PM
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