Keeping the blogosphere posted on the goings on of the world of submarines since late 2004... and mocking and belittling general foolishness wherever it may be found. Idaho's first and foremost submarine blog. (If you don't like something on this blog, please E-mail me; don't call me at home.)

Thursday, January 21, 2010

Busy Week At SUBASE NLON (Not!)

A while back, I posted about confusion regarding when Sailors can wear the Navy Working Uniform off base. They decided you can make "brief stops" while wearing the NWU; at SUBASE New London, they seem to be having some "problems", so they issued a clarification on Facebook (not sure if you'll be able to see the link if you're not logged into Facebook). Excerpts (capitalization as posted by the original source):
There is still some confusion regarding the wear of the NWU (Navy Working Uniform) and some of its components.

Authorized Stops
Routine short-term stops while transiting between work and place of residence via pov or public transportation in the NWU are authorized. Examples of short-term stops include drop off/pick up for child care, dry cleaners, gas stations, banks, and convenience stores. Several Sailors have been observed shopping at local malls such as the crystal mall and department stores such as walmart. Shopping at non-military installation retail store outlets or malls or attending off-base entertainment venues are considered extended stops and are therefore not authorized in the NWU. Wearing the NWU is generally not authorized at formal off-base official navy or government functions, for example: Sailor of the year events, navy league functions, award banquets. Off base working parties, including community relations (comrel) projects may be authorized by commanders to wear the NWU. Wear of the NWU is not authorized for off base personal appointments (examples: court, dmv, civilian medical visits, off-base education). During the prescribed workday routine short-term stops and off installation dining in the nwu/cuu are authorized.
Sailors in working uniforms at the Crystal Mall -- shocking! I know that we've never been allowed to go to the mall in our working uniforms, but I continue to be amazed that the Navy decided to replace our old working uniforms that were too ugly to be seen by the general public with... another working uniform that they're still to embarrassed of to allow Sailors to be seen at the Mall while wearing it.

The post goes on to explain the authorized style and wear of boots with the NWU, then adds this kicker:
As of 1 march 2010, on subase the blue foul weather jacket is no longer authorized for use with any working uniform. all waterfront units should turn in foul weather jackets to NSSC and shore commands to the base. NSSF will provide guidance to those sailors that have to work in heavy industrial areas where outer garments are necessary.
So... Sailors are no longer allowed to wear the blue foul weather jacket, but no replacement is mentioned. I hope that Sailors who have to work outside in Groton, CT, in early March will be able to use NSSF's "guidance" to stay warm. Hopefully "guidance" is a euphemism for "a sturdy warm jacket provided by the Navy for people working outside in cold weather".


Blogger SJV said...

And yet...still...the Army continues to have folks wearing working uniforms in public without restriction.

1/21/2010 10:42 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

OK. I just checked out pictures of the NWU for the first time. It's the ugliest, most unnautical thing I've ever seen. Are they saving money buying from the same contractor as the other services?

OBTW, how is a man overboard wearing the NWU ever going to be spotted from deck/helo. No kidding, this is worse than the dungarees, which I hated.

Joe Alferio

1/21/2010 11:23 AM

Blogger Bill said...

Sailors are expected to purchase the $225 Gore Tex Parka and fleece liner combo that they received a uniform allowance for - they won't go buy it if they have a foul weather jacket to wear (that isn't authorized with NWU anyway).

1/21/2010 11:36 AM

Blogger Bubblehead said...

Hopefully the work they're doing won't be dirty work that would damage their $225 parka.

1/21/2010 12:07 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"OBTW, how is a man overboard wearing the NWU ever going to be spotted from deck/helo. No kidding, this is worse than the dungarees, which I hated."

I asked my husband the same thing, and he just shrugged. My mother was staying with us when my husband got his NWU back from the uniform shop, and her response was,

"I didn't realize you guys were so visible underwater, that the Navy felt compelled to switch to a camouflage uniform..."

1/21/2010 12:16 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why is the Navy so ashamed of its working uniform?

1/21/2010 12:18 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

The uniform, which replaced both utilities for both officer and enlisted is slightly less limiting than wearing utilities off-base for routine stops also replaces poopy suits, which at SUBASE NLON was not allowed off the pier and in most bases was not allowed off lower base (save PH). The uniform is just puts everyone E1-O10 (theoretically) in the same thing. The uniform actually makes sailors look like they belong in the US military, as opposed to a civilian mechanic or a plumber. As for the fall overboard argument (liken to the no trees in the sky argument for the Air Force), let's get real people. Could you see someone wearing a poopy suit or the coveted blue foul weather jacket if they fell overboard any better than in NWUs? The answer is no. The uniform isn't meant to "hide from bad guys underwater," but rather to hide dirt/oil/grit stains that sailors accumulate on their uni's while working. The uniform isn't going away, so stop complaining about making everybody a little more unified both in the service and across branches. Instead of whining about how the Army gets to do this, that and the other thing, why doesn't the Navy (read: Chief's Mess and/or wardroom) show that they are proud of wearing the new uniforms, demonstrate they know how to wear it properly and enforce proper wear, and come up with solutions about relaxing the rule.

1/21/2010 12:50 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

ANON 1250:

Instead of whining about how the Army gets to do this, that and the other thing, why doesn't the Navy (read: Chief's Mess and/or wardroom) show that they are proud of wearing the new uniforms, demonstrate they know how to wear it properly and enforce proper wear, and come up with solutions about relaxing the rule.

So, we have to somehow prove that we should be treated as adults (or trusted members of the nations armed forces) before we can be treated as such. I guess the screening process to make chief, enlist, or get a commission isn't enough proof. I guess successfully operating warships isn't enough proof.

Do I have to prove that I'm not a sex offender before the Navy will let me go out on a date with a member of the opposite sex? Do I have to prove that I'm not an alcoholic before the Navy will let me get a beer?

Yet somehow, I have to prove that I can wear a uniform before the Navy will let me wear it off base?

Your statement is BS. Were you on task force uniform. It sure sounds like it.

why doesn't the Navy (read: Chief's Mess and/or wardroom) show that they are proud of wearing the new uniforms

I'm proud of the uniform and of the traditions and sacrifices made by those who came before us. I am, however, not very proud of the ass clowns that pretend to be leading us today.

1/21/2010 1:08 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just like anything in the navy there is a trial period when it comes to new policies, procedures, equipment. The same applies for uniform wear and application. No plan survives first contact, hence the "proving yourself" that Anon at 1250 was probably referring to.

Anon at 1308, your arguments regarding sex, alcohol, and ship handling (three things that should never be combined, ironically) while more extreme examples than wearing a new uniform are relevant arguments; however, they are not areas that the Navy and sub force seem to be excelling at lately. Obviously you are such a mature individual and untouchable by the Navy's policies, because you are so far above them.

Leadership begins on the deckplates and if LPOs, CPOs, and the wardroom can't figure out how to tell the people in Washington who provide the over-arching guidance on issues like this, that they aren't wearing any clothes, then nothing will ever change.

1/21/2010 1:51 PM

Blogger SonarMan said...

Once again, the Navy takes care of its own and prescribes a uniform item that would break the bank account of the average Sailor - and then expect the Sailor to work in it so it gets trashed.

I agree with Joe Alferio - the NWU is the ugliest, most unnautical, non-traditional uniform the navy has put out to date.

To anon at 1/21/2010 12:50 PM, the uniform is not only to distinguish yourself from the general public as member of the military, but also represent your branch of service. If everyone is wearing camos, who the hell can tell who the hell is who? Members of the public will not be able to distinguish the Navy from the (ch)Air Force.

They got rid of the Johnny Cash's only to replace it with something truly puke-worthy - the khaki shirt with black trousers. Now, sailors just look like K-mart Marines. It makes me sick.

I never had a problem with the dungarees. They were a uniform that everyone recognized as a "Sailor". I think they could have been kept in the sea bag, and a durable alternative material found. At least they were relatively cheap and easily replaceable. I could replace three or four sets at once and not have my bride complain too loudly. Or just switch entirely to poopy suits if they're trying to make the sea bag smaller.

My sister was visiting a while back, and saw a young sailor in his Johnny Cash's (an E-1 - nothing on his sleeve), and remarked "What a funny outfit that young man has on!". She couldn't tell he was in the military and didn't believe me when I told her he was a Sailor ("That's not a sailor's uniform!"). See my point?

I would have liked to see Big Navy bring back the Undress blues. Its a traditional uniform that everyone would recognize.

1/21/2010 2:04 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I dunno, I think blue cammies are ostensibly Navy uniforms. The black and tans are a bastardized uniform and only truly eliminated one uniform while combining whites and Johnny cash's.

1/21/2010 2:13 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree with the concept of proving yourself. ANON 1:08 used women and booze as examples but I think he missed the trifecta. He should compare it to women, booze, and guns.

The "Proving Yourself" policy is not really appropriate for uniform wear. You "prove" your ability to wear a uniform at bootcamp. It's a pretty basic concept.

Now, if we were going to issue sidearms to every sailor to walk around town with then I might agree with a "proving yourself" policy.

A stupid sailor with a gun = dead person.

A stupid sailor with a uniform = stupid sailor that looks sloppy

Not really on the same level.

I think it is telling that the Navy will even micro-manage where the uniform can be worn.

After all that is cornerstone of the Navy's motto for the new millenium: "Micromanagement is Leadership" (For awhile it was "trust but verify" - they decided to remove the trust part and "but verify" didn't sound right)

1/21/2010 2:51 PM

Blogger J said...

The cause of these dumb-shit standards isn't the guys in charge of Subase. It's the perfumed ass-clown skimmer wardrooms who can't stand the idea that a change in one of the Navy's more pointless rules may actually occur, or that Sailors might be the beneficiaries of a convenient policy instead of the victims of a dumb-shit pointless one.

The guys on subase are actually being more lenient and common-sense with their interpretation of big navy's rules here than every other region in the nation. For example, in the DC area, this uniform cannot be worn on public transportation - while sitting right next to Army guys on the metro who are wearing their new velcro-studded potato sacks. Really? Have you ever tried to drive in DC?

Where's Hrabe when you need him?

1/21/2010 3:19 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm not a big fan of Task Force Uniform. They've gotten way too much stuff wrong to still be in business. But they are, imagine that!

The latest snafu is that the 50/50 poly/cotton blue T-shirts the NEX has been selling aren't authorized because they're 50% polyester, you know flammable. So why were they selling them in the first place?

Heads should roll. Maybe we need a Task Force to find new leadership for Task Force Uniform.

1/21/2010 3:56 PM

Anonymous STSC said...

The off-base wear policy is ludicrous.

You CAN go to Applebee's for lunch in the NWU, but you cannot go to the Doctor's office off-base mid-morning for an appointment in them.

You CAN go pump your gas in public in the NWU, but you cannot go witness someone re-enlisting out in town in them during the work day.

You CAN wear them to the local 7-11 to buy beer or a Slurpee but you can't go to DMV (generally open only during working hours) to get your paperwork squared away required (registration, etc) for base access stickers.

You CAN go to the dry cleaners in them but have to get permission from your regional commander if you are helping out in the community (highway clean-up, etc) & plan to wear the NWU.

This is just stupid.
The Army & Marine working uniforms (except in color) are extremely similar and are seen in public all the time. Why is our standard different?

How is being seen shopping at Walmart any different than being seen at the bank?

The price for replacement is extremely prohibitive for junior Sailors. Granted the uniform allowance covers initial issue, but getting replacement stuff for the real working blueshirts is going to hurt their wallets.

1/21/2010 4:09 PM

Blogger Rubber Ducky said...

T'were ever thus...

Late '50s/early '60s at SubBase NLON a TM-1 named Smith had a squad of base cops (shore duty pukes ghost riding to get subpay) patrolling the upper base, gedunk, etc., for any violation of uniform regs. They'd write you up with a speeding ticket that went to your command - which usually tore them up. SubScol thought these guys served a useful function but the boats hated them.

Of note in this blog: these guys wore helmet liners painted white. They were universally and derisively known as 'bubbleheads' - that is the derivation of the phrase, later transmuted into meaning any submariner and no longer perjorative.

1/21/2010 4:10 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

$225 for a working uniform article? What happens when a sailor is told the parka is too unsat from use and has to replace it?

I never liked being in the only branch (well, except for the khakis) forbidden from wearing the working uniform in public.

My solution to relaxing the rules? How about relaxing the bullshit rules!


1/21/2010 4:12 PM

Blogger Patty Wayne said...

After reading this post I started surfing around looking at the uniforms and found myself at the MCPON's website. In the picture on the front of website is the MCPON sitting with two staffers at a medical center. What is the badge/insignia in the middle of the left breast pocket under the MCPON badge?

I can almost hear Neidermeyer yelling at Kent, "A pledge pin! On your uniform?"

1/21/2010 4:21 PM

Anonymous Punkindrublic said...

I'm NOT shocked at Navy leadership on the issue; 24 years taught me that there are apparently far too many nit-pickers, starting with MCPONs (past and present) on up to CNOs that miss the point of "a sailor is a sailor". Army figured it out long ago; Navy is way behind the curve on this one.

p.s. I would NOT want to fall overboard in that ugly piece of crap.

1/21/2010 4:22 PM

Blogger carbs said...

@patty wayne:

That emblem is part of the NWU itself, regardless of rank. It even has its own abbreviation - "ACE".

TSSBP, 17 Dec 08

1/21/2010 4:37 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hides dirt/oil/grit stains? Yeah right. After doing shore power in those things you can definitely tell where you were working. The pants seem to make the brown dirt/dust pop out. Also the dust from the cables stick out on the blouse. Is there a better reason why we switched other than it hides dirt/oil/grit stains?

1/21/2010 5:06 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why should I have to pay more to replace a parka - one that looks and feels like a tent, no less - than I would have to pay to replace an entire dinner dress uniform?

Thank God I'm in GA.

1/21/2010 6:10 PM

Blogger ret.cob said...

Lost count of the uniform changes since 1976. All the arguments above (pro and con) are all the same arguments we've heard after every single change. Seems to me that the biggest change this time is the E1-O10 nature of this one. I'm surprised we haven't heard more out of the Chiefs Quarters about the loss of khakis for Chiefs. We would have raised holy hell back in the day at the mere mention of wearing the same uniform as everybody else. Or do the Chiefs still have an option to wear them?

1/21/2010 7:56 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

wash khakis are going away just like dungarees. no option. everyone by DEC 2010 needs to own this uniform. The Anchor, Constitution, Eagle sewn in insignia on the left breast pocket is cartoony and a sad attempt at mimicking the EGA on Marine Corps digi camies. The uniform really isn't terribly unpleasant to wear. It hurts the wallet at first, but is reasonably durable and once the boots get broken in are decently comfortable. They are HELL the first 2 weeks though

1/21/2010 9:07 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

The NWU was conceived and developed by former ship driving desk jockeys who wanted to live vicariously through those dodging bullets in sand boxes around the globe. There is no logical justification for this atrocity.

"Hides dirt?" "Good to work in?" Funny, I remember always removing a shirt to work in. Now you've got to "unblouse." Puhleeeeeze!

1/21/2010 9:27 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think the reason we switched to the digital camo style was because congress or the top brass or whoever wanted all branches of the military to be in similar uniforms. They are still personalized to each branch, but still similar. I read it somewhere awhile ago, but I can't cite the reference. They say that the colors of the uniform are similar to the most used paint on warships, but sea foam green stands out like a sore thumb. The material doesn't breathe well. The other branches can make them from other material but ours have to be fire resistant, for obvious reasons. They are also way too bulky/loose. As a nuke, this makes it a real pain in the ass when I have to frisk because I am always touching my uniform to the probe. And those god damn buttons on the sleeve catch on everything when I have the sleeves rolled up! They do look a lot sharper, but I think the old uniforms were much more practical.

1/22/2010 1:08 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

What cold weather style jacket will be authorized for wear with the coveralls? The utility jacket definitely isn't warm enough for getting underway in a groton winter. Will they even keep selling it? Will they allow the parkas to be worn instead of the foul weather jacket? I am sure some commands will make a decision on their own, but there are some way to by the books chief's quarters that will continue to say that the uniform regs don't authorize it, so it isn't allowed. I hope this issue is already being addressed.

1/22/2010 1:13 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

The NWU is without a doubt the most comfortable uniform the navy has made me wear in the past 15 years. Sure this was some resistance in the beginning, but every submariner I have talked to has not complained about the uniform (except for the shabby button-fixed, and the E-7 & above cap/collar device - not fixed). I have yet to see a dirty uniform, maybe the guys are finally getting the hint that they should put on the green coverralls before they go bilge diving.
That $225 Parka is without a doubt the warmest jacket I have ever worn. I was still sweating when it was in the teens.


1/22/2010 4:31 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

There was once a day when there was a cheap working uniform that although it wa ugly, you could actually work in it and get it dirty. It didn't cost $150 to replace it when you screwed it up (therefore you didn't feel the need to keep wearing a crappy unifrom that should be retired). You could get an entire set for $20 (and stencil your name on with a marker not pay $40 for all the sewing).

A working uniform is exactly that a working uniform. As such it has no place being worn off base. The snipes shower near the Squadron building in Pearl was exactly for the purpose of showering and changing out of your grubbies at teh end of the day.

Yes, it may be comfortable becuase it's a bag of rags that allows you to hold your extra jelly donut weight comfortably.

It's not a matter of trust, it's a matter of looking around. When it first came out, a sailor on one submarine (can't remember which) was in a featured picture in All Hands which was picked up by the Navy Enquirer (I mean Navy Times) and was horrendous. Blouse was the wrong size, pants were not bloused, boots looked like hell, was wearing a ball cap under a kevlar helmet (one of the stupidist looking things we do). So, no, I don't want that sailor representing our Navy. You may say it is one person, but take a look around.

As for a jacket with coveralls, coveralls are now once again relegated to strictly shipborne wear underway (the new uniform officially hides dirt and paint as the last MCPON said so no reason to wear in port) so the jacket argument is moot.

After my responding support for the new uniform, I will fully agree with the uniform supporters who think the man overboard argument is dumb. It is. Many foreign submariners wear a coverall with reflective tape on it. That's your only hope. Aquaflage, dungarees, utilities, coveralls, doesn't matter, none can be seen. Wear your float coat, make sure your dye maker and strobe light and chem light work.

Customs and traditions are an important part of having a sense of belonging. These are just appealing to wannabe tough guys who play too much Halo or Tour of Duty.

1/22/2010 5:18 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nice to see the Faces Have changed but THE ANAL reamin in Control. One must wonder how do they do it? Must be in the DNA or the training. Never think outside the Box and you'll rise through the ranks in the Nav. When is all said and done, the one making these hard choices on Uniforms must still go home and the take out the trash!! L.I.F.E.R............

1/22/2010 6:07 AM

Blogger 630-738 said...

I agree that the man overboard argument is lame, considering it's basically the same colors, albeit a different pattern, than the uniform it replaces. Blue is blue is blue, and all are hard to see in the drink.

For the record, I don't like the uniform. Having said that, I'm not wearing it. If the sailors like it, and TFU recommended it, and Navy Brass approves, well, there you go. It's the uniform. The real issue, at least to me, is when is the Navy going to start treating sailors like the adult warriors they portray them as? You cannot propose a new uniform, build it up, tell sailors they're gonna be proud of it and be able to wear it off-base, release it and then tell them "Well, you can't wear it off base until you prove you can wear it properly". Congratulations Navy Brass, you just figured out the fastest, more certain way to ensure sailors who are disgruntled stay that way, and those who aren't become so. Set some reasonable, understandable ground rules, and stick to them!!! What's so hard about that?

For example: You can wear it to and from work. You may stop at grocery stores, gas stations, ATM's and drive throughs are ok. Department Stores, Malls, inside banks are out. No wearing it to church, the DMV, etc.. etc.. Whatever you decide, make it clear and concise, and stop qualifying it with "when you prove you can wear it properly". Hold the offenders accountable, and make the leap of faith that those who will follow the rules, WILL!

1/22/2010 9:17 AM

Blogger 630-738 said...

Another thing. The next time the Navy wants a Task Force Uniform, make them find the funds to support the next big uniform change. It's asinine to make $225.00 jackets (excuuuse me, parkas) for a working uniform. There was not one damn thing wrong with blue foul weather jackets, provided we don't do stupid things like stencil the ship's hull number on the back. I doubt they cost 225 bucks!

1/22/2010 9:20 AM

Blogger Rubber Ducky said...

"Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes." Henry David Thoreau

1/22/2010 11:33 AM

Anonymous bullnav said...

...not only that, but they are tearing down the old O'Kane hall next week. I'll send you and email...

1/22/2010 1:14 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

The NWU was conceived and developed by former ship driving desk jockeys who wanted to live vicariously through those dodging bullets in sand boxes around the globe. There is no logical justification for this atrocity.

This reminds me of the flap when the Navy did away with crackerjacks in the early `70s because all of the fat-kiestered PO1s in DC hated it.

Dunno, but I was one of the khaki-clad. I bought my wash khakis at an off-base store- the Dickie's brand, for cheaply enough that I could have some spares for when they either became trashed with grease or destroyed by the supply pukes in the laundry.

The rules of "no working uniform off-base" go back decades. The only times I saw them ignored were when ships were in ROH far away from Navy bases, where there was nobody ashore who knew or cared of the chickenshit rules.

NWU seems like a solution to an imaginary problem, but I'm not a blue-suiter anymore, so I really don't give a rat's ass.

1/22/2010 1:51 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm an E6 in the Reserve now. Tan/Black uniform is okay in that it isn't white. I usually where my rain coat over it to hide my shame. Here's the kicker about the NWU; the Navy is the only service that will not authorize wearing our "cammies" at the Pentagon. Who are we hiding it from?


1/22/2010 2:46 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

P.S. Don't mess with my blue crackerjacks; that's the only uniform that makes me feel like, "Hell yeah, I'm a f-n' Sailor, got a problem with it?"


1/22/2010 2:51 PM

Blogger Randall said...

just today, on Subase NLON, i saw a sailor changing out of their NWU in the back seat of their automobile.

that's what i always did when i was active duty. no way in hell would i want to wear any Navy uniform out and about. i wore one enough at work. changed into 'regular clothes' any chance i got.

1/22/2010 3:01 PM

Anonymous Average Sailor said...

"Customs and traditions are an important part of having a sense of belonging."

It is true that customs and traditions are indeed a huge part of our Navy and the Navy has many fine traditions indeed. However, more often than not we used the "Customs and Tradition" not because it is a sign of pride, but because it is a convienent excuse for avoiding change.

I was initially critical of the new uniform because, yes, it did seem that the Navy was going for something that looked like a retarded version of the Marines. After getting the new uniform myself and paying well over 600 bucks for everything my opinion has changed somewhat. Indeed, there is nothing "traditional" about this uniform. A Marine friend of mine was making fun of the new uniforms because they made us look "special," as did another friend in the Army. The new uniform is quite comfortable. It does hide dirt and grease to an extent. It can be worn more places than the "Futilities" could. The damned expensive jacket is rather nice as well. It beats the utility jacket and raincoat hands down. The Bellville boots suck though, as I destroyed two sets in less than one week. The eyelets fell out after less than 6 hours of wear on one pair, and the sides blew out on another pair in less than 2 hours. They also rubbed the skin off my feet in multiple places. I was dissapointed that the Navy couldn't select a better boot. At 72 bucks a pair I would expect some quality.
All in all this uniform is slightly better than the utilities, but not much. I do like the fact it looks somewhat millitary. I no longer feel like an escaped convict from Georgia, or a Janitor. At the same time it sucks because I know the new uniform is the laughing stock of the other services.
As to the wear standards, this uniform is a piece of cake to wear compared to some of the others. You have to be stupid, lazy, or misinformed to mess this one up. I agree that the Navy standards for wearing this uniform out in town should be the same as the other services, that is, if we are truly proud of it. I think wearing the uniform off base is a matter of pride. It is telling when our "leadership" is embarassed for us to be seen by people in our new unifrom that we should wear with pride. Is this new unifrom an embarassment to them? I can see not wearing utilities in town as they did look like a janitor or a mechanic's uniform. The NWU is definately neither of those. As for sailors not knowing how to wear this uniform, this is total BS. It is true that one jacked up sailor reflects badly on all of us, but this should be an incentive for us to correct the messed up sailor, not the responsible ones who wear the unifrom right. The current rules are indeed a mistake by Big Navy, but Big Navy never makes mistakes, does it? The rules will be revised in a year or two when the ones in charge can change them and make it out to be part of the "plan" and not a screwup on their part.

1/22/2010 4:51 PM

Blogger 630-738 said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

1/22/2010 4:54 PM

Blogger Ret ANAV said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

1/22/2010 5:57 PM

Blogger Roy said...

Don't you guys get it? The new uniform is part of a rivalry between the Army and Navy that has been going on for a long time.

You see, years ago, the Army and Navy had a contest to see which service could come up with the stupidest looking hat for their enlisted personnel to wear. Well, the Navy has had that goofy looking Dixie-cup for a very long time, so they thought they could rest on their laurels and it would beat anything the Army could come up with hands down. But the Navy brass didn't figure on...

The Beret.

I mean, have you ever seen anything as silly looking as that. Any soldier wearing it looks like he's wearing a plate of shit-on-a-shingle that has started to run down the side of his head. It is so goofy looking that soldiers wearing it all over the world are now starting to be *proud* of it - just like sailors and their white hat.

Way back in the mists of time, when I was in, we had a perfectly good, stupid looking but proud uniform, which looked just like the one Donald Duck wore, ( except we had pants.) In the sixties and seventies, it had even become popular. Well, we couldn't have that, so the high morale level alarm went off, and the Navy replaced it with a coat-and-tie. And it was not just any coat-and-tie, it was a polyester monstrosity that was guaranteed to not fit right and would wrinkle at the first hint of locker stowage. And it made sailors look like the milkman. There was also an undress version that consisted of a black shirt, black trousers, black tie, black shoes, white crow with red stripes, and the combination cap with white cover. All we needed was a swastika armband and we could have passed for extras in "Das Boot".

So, this new uniform change is merely big Navy's effort to make up for lost ground in the "who-has-the-dumbest-uniform" quest.

They're getting closer, but I don't know, that Beret is gonna be really hard to beat.


All kidding aside. I haven't had a dog in this fight for over 30 years. So I really don't care except for the entertainment value of listening to all the old-pharts ranting about it. I can definitely see where the new pattern would hide a lot of sins and make the whole outfit look to be in better shape than it really is. Besides, if today's sailors are okay with it, then who am I to say otherwise. So I'm okay with it.

Besides - "khaki-pants" - that is just too damn funny.

1/22/2010 10:07 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Well, the Navy has had that goofy looking Dixie-cup for a very long time, so they thought they could rest on their laurels and it would beat anything the Army could come up with hands down. But the Navy brass didn't figure on...

The Beret."

The Navy's white head gear doesn't look bad at all. It looks fine on a squared away sailor.

Now, let's talk about the Army's Bullshit Beret.
There was no excuse in the world to have the entire USA switch over to berets. Most Soldiers trying to wear this damn thing look like Chef Boyardee. Plus it takes two hands to put the damn thing on. That's right, if you come upon a group of bad guys in your midst, and you don't have your beret on...then you'll have to say "Excuse me Mr. badguy as I put my weapon down to put on my beret since it would be completely improper to engage you in a fire fight without me being properly covered."

The beret is a joke, most soldiers feel that way. Did you know when you first receive it, you actually have to take the damn thing in the shower with you and shave all the excess wool from it in order to form the damn thing around your head. Yes, it's true.

You guys go out and ask any Soldier who's served recently as October 2001 and they'll tell you the same.

Atleast you Navy guys have your head gear squared away, and your NWUs, don't really look that bad. Gortex parkas are a piece of gear you'll learn to appreciate in due time.

Just an Army guy looking to see what's up with the Navy.

1/23/2010 12:09 AM

Anonymous LT L said...

Just an Army guy looking to see what's up with the Navy.

This is not the place to be poking around. We're only about 7% of the Navy, and each one of us was thoroughly screened by multiple mental-health professionals who unanimously certified that we are crazy enough to serve on a submarine. Not to mention the whole nuclear thing, which comprises only about a third of the submariners, but about three-quarters of the crazy. Stick with Neptunus Lex for general Navy babbling.


1/23/2010 7:27 AM

Anonymous Sonartech said...

The Navy brass is always gung ho on customs & traditions when its one they like; when the perfumed princes no longer like it (e.g. beards), suddenly custom/tradition is no longer so important and you get lifer dogs making statements about change.

This uniform is more proof that the perfumed princes dont ever expect to have to conduct naval warfare where ships take hits and some sink. What happens if some skimmmer has to abandon ship quick and doesn't have flotation (not a prob on boats - no survivors)? In boot camp they used to teach how to use the bell bottom pants as flotation. Are they teaching how to use the NWU pants as flotation? (or the coveralls, ha!) How are you going to get them off without taking off the boots? Again, the PC skimmer pukes in charge are no longer even thinking about naval battles.

Submariners should have their own unique uniform. When I was in the nav only submariners wore poopy suits, now I see that even the puddle pirates wear them. Everyone wants to talk the bubblehead talk without walking the bubblehead walk. Back when I was a hard core fast attack sailor I would have told anyone what I thought about the NWU and wouldn't care if they liked it or not. What could they do to me, send me to sea on a fast attack?!

1/23/2010 11:25 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ha ha. They can send me to sea on fast attack all they want. Just give me the due respect that I have earned. The worst thing they could do to me is send me to sea on a carrier. Sure, they have everything they could want and call home every day, but nothing in the navy is more satisfying than knowing that you are ultimately better than all of the surface guys.

1/23/2010 11:50 AM

Anonymous LT L said...

When I was in the nav only submariners wore poopy suits, now I see that even the puddle pirates wear them.

Even worse: they wrote regulations around them. No more embroidered dolphins (with no "U.S. Navy" below them), no names embroidered on like "Navigator", "Engineer", "Chief Knuckle-Dragger" and "Peter Machinist". If I remember correctly they even had a ALLNAV out prohibiting an American flag being sewn on.


1/23/2010 12:58 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

The current MCPON is a submariner, I wonder why he doesn't just get rid of the gay ass rules on the uniform. Does the CNO REALLY care? Shouldn't he have better stuff to worry about, like wasting money trying to figure out how to staff subs with women?

The NWU looks stupid, and the rules surrounding it are stupid. Though I will say at least we finally have a working cold weather item that's worth a shit, too bad they couldn't make it part of a uniform that looks like it belongs on sailors.

1/23/2010 10:25 PM

Anonymous Sonartech said...

Though I will say at least we finally have a working cold weather item that's worth a shit

The fast attack sailors at Pearl where I was stationed and in Guam will be happy to hear that!

1/24/2010 11:00 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Even worse: they wrote regulations around them. No more embroidered dolphins (with no "U.S. Navy" below them), no names embroidered on like "Navigator", "Engineer", "Chief Knuckle-Dragger" and "Peter Machinist". If I remember correctly they even had a ALLNAV out prohibiting an American flag being sewn on.

Seriously? I had no idea how gay the Navy had become.

1/24/2010 11:45 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

From my dad, I heard stories about guys having their nicknames just stencilled onto their poopies and wore metal insignia and metal dolphins and that was it.

I wish it was still like that, it sounds a lot more fun :-/

1/24/2010 12:54 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I had a chief back in the day who went by "McPig." I used to adorn my poopies with flags, boat patches and other patches they sold at the NEX personal services store. We had fun with them. We had patrol hats. Beards. We had a blast going to sea. Just don't tell anybody.

1/25/2010 1:20 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, for those that blame the skimmer sailors for this uniform..think again.

The senior enlisted of Task Force Uniform was a Master Chief with the last name Rocky Carroll (sp?). He was a submariner..and to A-Gang submariner. I remember him screaming and yelling at Sailors on the old "Illegitimi Non Carborundum"!

He has since retired and works for..

wait for it....

wait for it....

TASK FORCE UNIFORM as a civilian(but not the same job he had when he was active duty)!! There has got to be some conflict of interest there!!!!!


1/25/2010 1:38 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I had a chief back in the day who went by "McPig." I used to adorn my poopies with flags, boat patches and other patches they sold at the NEX personal services store. We had fun with them. We had patrol hats. Beards. We had a blast going to sea. Just don't tell anybody."

This is the navy I meant to join, too bad I found out that I joined the one ran by humourless pricks...

1/25/2010 5:04 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Do I have to prove that I'm not a sex offender before the Navy will let me go out on a date with a member of the opposite sex? Do I have to prove that I'm not an alcoholic before the Navy will let me get a beer?

Please don't give the Navy ideas.

1/26/2010 5:22 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Please don't give the Navy ideas."

If the Navy requires me to prove I can hold my liquor before I have a beer...the only thing some tight- assed top brass is going to find out is where I'll put my bottle when I am done. They won't be so tight-assed after that!

1/27/2010 4:20 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

First off the NWU is the absolute best uniform that the Navy has produced! It is the most comfortable, it is awesome to work in. It hides oil stains, carbon dust, minor paint run ins. The Parka is actually meant to be worn in the cold and rain. Those that don't like it must be desk jockies and not the working Navy. There is not a single enlisted sailor on my boat that dislikes it. From my Cob down to the newest guy showing up.

Sure there are things that we would like to see changed, I would like to run into the store and pick up more than milk and bread on my way home, but me and my guys can go out and have lunch in this uniform. We don't like the 8 point cover, and we all miss our ball cap, but that is a small sacrifice to pay for a uniform that works. As for the comment about the small fortune, I got a little over a grand for this uniform, and I spent around 600 bucks for 2 full sets, the parka, boots, and sewing.

As for the color, you don't wear this one at sea! Thats what "poopy suits" are for. Read the uniform regulations.

If the guys are wearing them out in town, that's because no one around them is upholding a standard. No one is showing them how to wear the uniform. I personally think this uniform looks military, and not like a gas station attendant. That's just my 2 cents worth though..

1/31/2010 12:11 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yet despite the complaining of new sub schoolers doing this frequently. I see a LT walking through the supermarket casually shopping. Hmmm But lets all point fingers at junior guys!

4/27/2010 8:15 PM

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6/03/2011 9:27 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

To everyone who continues to make the man overboard comments, get a clue, most sailors where dark blue coveralls while at sea, how does new NWU's make it any harder to spot someone? This joke was old when the first person said it.

8/15/2012 12:03 PM

Anonymous Jean said...

Here, I don't really believe this will work.

9/08/2012 12:30 PM


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