Bangor TTF CO Fired
Story at Navy Times. I'll update with the link in the morning.
Update 0827 15 Sep: Here's the link to the Navy Times story. Excerpt:
The commanding officer of the Trident Training Facility in Bangor, Wash., was fired Tuesday because of “inappropriate personal behavior,” according to a Navy spokesman.Here's a story from September 2009 when CAPT Solms assumed command. The Navy Times article also has the list of the previous 13 COs fired this year. This blog grabbed CAPT Solms' bio before it got taken down from the TTF Bangor website; it looks like CAPT Solms did his JO tour on USS Helena (SSN 725), Eng tour on USS West Virginia (SSBN 736)(Gold), XO tour on USS Ohio (SSBN 726)(Blue) and command tours on USS Alaska (SSBN 732)(Blue) and USS Hawaii (SSN 776), where he was the plankowner CO.
Capt. David Solms, the 14th CO fired in 2010, was relieved Tuesday by Capt. Kenneth Swan, commanding officer of Submarine Learning Center in Groton, Conn., said William Kenny, a spokesman for the learning center.
Kenny said the relief stemmed from “inappropriate personal behavior” that led to a loss of confidence in Solms’ ability to command. Kenny said he could not characterize the nature of the behavior.
For those who have been E-mailing me, yes, I've heard that there's more "news" coming out of Bangor other than this story, but I generally don't publish anything until it gets into the public domain.
For my standard "question" at the end of a post, let's give this one a shot: Have you ever been a CO who didn't realize that if you did something stupid someone was going to find out, and that people can't get away with the same crap that they could even a few years ago?
posted by Bubblehead at 11:26 PM
71 Comments:
Word is there is another yet to come.....
9/15/2010 5:04 AM
Here's the link
9/15/2010 5:06 AM
Making room at the top!
I heard he got caught bubbling the plennum.
Rackburn
9/15/2010 6:18 AM
Im stunned. This guy was my XO on the Ohio and had two successful Command at sea tours on USS Alaska and PCU/USS Hawaii... I know people can change over time but this is a RFC that I wouldnt have guessed in a lifetime. What a real tragedy, this was (at one time anyway) a real Naval Leader that could take you in harms way, get the mission done and bring you back home... and he took care of his people.
Now the CO of SWFPAC that was RFC'd last year that is another story completely! That guy while having some good ideas was single handedly destroying an entire command... When you think that all the people at your command are wrong and you are the only one that's right AND you accuse your ISIC of being equally clueless and publicly profess that you are going to "fix" them too... well you get the idea.
D@mn...
9/15/2010 6:41 AM
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2010/09/navy-David-Solms-relieved-091410/
Once again... Never get your honey where you get your money!
9/15/2010 6:47 AM
What a shame. He was the best CO I ever served under.
9/15/2010 7:58 AM
So what's the "news?" Anyone? Bueller?
9/15/2010 8:54 AM
Two immediate thoughts:
Am I the only one who's troubled by the fact that the Nav goes to the trouble (and risk) of publicly describing the reason why they've fired a guy like this? All it does is harm the guy's reputation. I'm not perceiving any right of the public to know even this level of detail.
On the other hand, there's something very fundamentally not right with this all-too-familiar situation that we're neither talking about nor addressing as a society. It seems to either lie beyond our grasp, or it's too against the established grain (non PC) to have an intelligent and more-to-the-point honest conversation about it.
9/15/2010 9:09 AM
Not being PC at all by nature, I'll take a stab at my second point above. Let's try just being factual, without judgment (for as long as we can stand it).
Facts:
(1) The age of most of "these guys" is roughly 40-45. Past 45, they tend to be ex-Navy at that point, but 'it' does still happen to admirals and very senior captains.
(2) By and large, that means that their wives are nears the same age within 2-3 yrs as is avg in the U.S.
(3) We live in a sex-drenched society from a media & entertainment standpoint. Porn - anti-love, actually, but nonetheless strongly sexual button-pushing - is just a button click away.
(4) Ladies 'of a certain age' start to lose interest in sex, even though menopause may be a few years off.
(5) Men are sexually viable - and driven - for *decades* after women no longer are.
(6) During nearly all of our evolutionary existence, men had the option of multiple wives. Without any/much evolution distance-covered since then, this was common as recently as Biblical time-frames.
(7) Society now denies the previously existing right to have more than one wife in a marriage...it's all-with-one, or nothing at any point in time.
(8) In many of today's illegal but real multiple-wife marriages, those inside the marriage and living that life like it just fine...or they wouldn't be there. The senior wives counsel the younger ones, are able to share workload, and bring their wisdom to bear in a respected way. The younger wives take on child bearing and rearing with support that goes beyond the husband alone.
Am I missing something, or isn't this really the fundamental issue at hand?
Moreover, where and how did we jump the tracks on our own, God-given nature by creating the current societal mess of multiple, serial marriages with the kids left twisting in the wind?
Non-PC-ly yours,
Rabid Anti-Dentite
9/15/2010 9:30 AM
As we await inevitable skuttlebutt, here are facts to remember:
"...people can't get away with the same crap that they could even a few years ago?" -BH
This CO was but the latest non-academy example of loss of confidence issues in COs. In the future, expect more female COs as the environment is being prepared for their success despite what had been perceived in yesteryears as significantly prohibitive shortcomings.
ACCORDING TO THE NAVY PUBLIC AFFAIRS OFFICE, THE NAVY HAS MORE THAN 1000 COMMANDING OFFICERS WHO SERVE WITH HONOR, COURAGE AND COMMITMENT THROUGHOUT THEIR TOURS AS COMMANDING OFFICER. THESE FEW COs WHO ARE FIRED REPRESENT A VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE OF THE CO POPULATION. THE CNO HAS SAID THAT THESE "BEHAVIOR" FIRINGS ARE PARTICULARLY TROUBLING.
Irontown sailor
9/15/2010 9:41 AM
Rabid anti-dentite
"(4) Ladies 'of a certain age' start to lose interest in sex, even though menopause may be a few years off."
Wrong, dude. The cougar phenomenon is not a hoax and never was.
9/15/2010 9:45 AM
These aren't "behavior" firings.
They're "getting caught" firings.
I'd wager that every single CO would be fired on the spot if every single action of theirs was known publicly.
So...what's FUBAR, the skippers, or the so-called standard?
9/15/2010 9:50 AM
As much as I agree that society today is sex-saturated, I don't think that polygamy is the solution, or that the outlawing of it is the cause. I think the problem stems from a lack of self-control being taught or enforced in our society, everybody thnks they have to have it now, you're way, and in shool your taught that if it feels good, do it. Maybe if people stop being selfish and thinking of themselves, and what they want, and satisfying every urge immediatly, regardless of how it effects others, or it's long term affects, then maybe these incidents would hapen with at least a little less frequency.
A difficult concept I know, given our naturaly selfish nature, but give the centuries of monogamous relationships, some of whose members are some of the greatest people in history, I really doubt you can point to aging, libido-lacking, only-wives as a mitigating factor in this or any other case.
9/15/2010 9:53 AM
As a civilian (Navy dad - I met CAPT Solms. Seemed like a stand-up guy to me) I don't understand 'loss of confidence'. Well, I understand the words, but clearly they are a euphemism for 'you disgraced us.'
In this day and age, society places far less value on the so-called morals of people than the Navy seems to. A Captain gets canned for behaviour that most Americans see as slightly worse than picking one's nose in public, but the system as a whole encourages immoral behaviours like back stabbing competition, politicking instead of performing and faking the log to get that extra mandatory safety training done. Are we paying lip service to 'conduct unbecoming' and ignoring the rot at the centre?
Crazy. Joel I think you're absolutely right that people can't get away with things that used to slip under the radar.
Navy Dad
9/15/2010 9:54 AM
@ 9:45 Anon:
Thank you for your almost-accurate observation.
My earlier factual comment specifically said "Ladies..."
But, for clarity's sake, an amendment:
"Married ladies 'of a certain age' start to lose interest in sex, even though menopause may be a few years off."
9/15/2010 9:56 AM
I really doubt you can point to aging, libido-lacking, only-wives as a mitigating factor in this or any other case.
The libido-lacking wives are not at fault at all. It's actually somewhat misogynous to think that, and certainly not what I said. They're simply being true to their nature.
What's at fault is a society that condones a man having as many children as he likes out of wedlock, without limitation, yet would say that multiple-wife marriages wherein the participants publicly declare their life-long love for one another are a federal offense.
*That's* what's at fault: a hijacked, God-given right to marry whomever wishes to do so.
9/15/2010 10:06 AM
One more fact:
Over the past decade, the Navy has averaged 13 skippers prematurely relieved of command for cause each year, with most years wavering in the midteens. That’s roughly 1 percent of all COs, he said. “It’s pretty small.”
Irontown sailor
9/15/2010 10:15 AM
This is such a tragedy... The good guys, CAPT Solms is one, get into a situation that demands his relief yet the Holly Graf's of the world who shouldnt ever be allowed to manage a recycling program much less two Command at sea tours manage to work the system MUCH longer than they should. I just hope my skeletons never see the light of day.
This is a really sad day...
I know the fact that this situation came out required his relief but what a real loss...
Rabid you are closer to the facts than you may or may not realize...
9/15/2010 10:19 AM
Anonymous at 9/15/2010 9:53 AM -
Wholeheartedly agree. The key is that as a society we have become too reluctant to restrain ourselves from inappropriate behavior, and by that I mean everything from aggressive driving to sexual saturation to the worst possible things. There are times I am so mad at people that I wish I could strangle someone - but I don't. But if there are people who can't resist the urge to kill someone (see this example) then you know there are many more who can't resist the urge to engage in "inappropriate personal behavior". I feel sorry for CAPT Solms, but he seems to have been unable to resist what he undoubtably knew was a firing offense. And just because much of society may be doing it doesn't mean the title of this blog no longer applies...
9/15/2010 10:55 AM
Is Mr Rabid really making a leap that CO firings would diminish if polygamy was legal in the US? Holy deep gorge Batman, Evil Knevil could make that leap!
9/15/2010 10:59 AM
@Irontown sailor: We heard you twice the first time. The Navy is only catching 1% of the "offenders." Got it...thanks.
@10:19 Anon: "Rabid you are closer to the facts than you may or may not realize..." I have no doubt, but thanks for your honesty...*that's* what's deserving of respect, and the only truly "appropriate" conduct.
@10:55 Anon: "Appropriate" by what standard? Single-wife marriages are certainly not Biblical in nature. Marriage for life? Yes, absolutely so. Divorce? Way not.
9/15/2010 11:01 AM
@10:59 Anon: I'm saying exactly what I said, not at all what you said...but thanks for at least trying to read my words.
But, on the subject of CO firings, to repeat:
"I'd wager that every single CO would be fired on the spot if every single action of theirs was known publicly."
9/15/2010 11:04 AM
One notes with interest that the head shots and bios of both the CO just fired and also of the TTF XO are no longer posted on the TTF website: https://www.netc.navy.mil/centers/slc/ttfbangor/CommandInfo.aspx?ID=2
The plot thickens?
9/15/2010 12:11 PM
conroco@10:19 Anon: "Rabid you are closer to the facts than you may or may not realize..." I have no doubt, but thanks for your honesty...*that's* what's deserving of respect, and the only truly "appropriate" conduct.
Rabid, he's truly a great leader that allowed himself to get caught up in behavior that isnt correct, moral or allowed...
I'd still follow him to hell if he were going on a mission to fight the devil!
Thanks for the comment regarding honesty! being in charge, leading folks into harms way and carrying the burden of command is a terrible and wonderful thing as long as you can compartmentalize the fight, the reality and the struggles...
Great man that let his guard down in a moment of weakness...
9/15/2010 12:32 PM
I could tell you all so much more about him, but I don't want to burst your bubble. Let's just say this was a long time coming.
9/15/2010 12:58 PM
"Great man that let his guard down in a moment of weakness..."
That...or a great man whose basic life needs weren't being met, and whose 150MW unconscious mind insisted over the objections of his 2mW pre-frontal cortex that LIFE be served.
I'm not judging either way...but IMHO the too-common story of the otherwise-good, middle-aged man blowing his 'life-fuse' must have societal roots to it.
I am pointing out - factually - that in the American society we're not living in harmony with love with a capital "L", nor our true natures (if there's any difference between the two).
Just look at the divorce rates. Obviously, modern marital expectations are hugely mis-matched with the reality of who we really are by nature (with a capital "N").
Not all societies buy into the fallacy of single-wife marriage = happiness, by the way. Not by a long shot.
9/15/2010 1:06 PM
Look at the recent history of senior submarine officers who have been fired for inappropriate behavior. A common thread is an over-inflated ego that is suscetible to the temptations of a little female attention.
9/15/2010 2:16 PM
@rabid
Divorce rates are high because people are inherintly selfish and lack self control, as I eluded to earlier at 9:53 AM.
Just like anon at 10:55 AM I too have felt the urge to beat the crap out of someone to the point of incapacitation, but I didn't 1) because of the obvious judicical consequences 2) because I was raised by my parents and society to know that it's wrong. Therefore if you do something that you know is wrong by socities standards (whether you agree with those standards or not they still stand and are then just that, standards) you have to be prepared for the worst, and deal wth the consequences.
You say our society is going against our true nature. Just because something is in our nature doesn't make it right. You have to have a baseline of standards to work from. In our society most of those come from christian views and the bible, although less so as time goes on, whether you like it or not that's the way things are.
And since when does society condone fathering multiple children out of wedlock when you're married? Certainly not the the Bible, it doesn't condone any childrn out of wedlock, or even behaviour that leads to babies out of wedlock for that matter. Also later on in the Bible (the new testament) it does in fact define marriage as between one man and one woman. I'm certainly no bible thumper but you need to check your facts before sighting that as proof of your theory.
9/15/2010 2:46 PM
Amidst all this deep psychology and profound sociological discussion let us go back to reality...
Solms was serving in major command ashore after a highly successful submarine command at sea. When you get to that level, you know the rules and break them at risk.
Yes, it happens. Yes, it's sad, wasteful, unfortunate, lamentable. But the standards are well known and credit the Navy with upholding them. Solms shamed himself and his Navy. Cut him zero slack. AMF.
9/15/2010 3:01 PM
I also knew this man years ago. What a shock; but does make one wonder why? He'll adjust, wipe his mouth clean, and move forward; for he was never straight.
9/15/2010 3:16 PM
Anon @ 9/15/2010 12:58 PM
"I could tell you all so much more about him, but I don't want to burst your bubble. Let's just say this was a long time coming."
I guess what you're telling me is that I am clueless, gullible and blind to what this man was really about???
Either this man was really that sneaky, in which case makes him an incredible submarine CO or I am so clueless I shouldnt ever be put in a position to lead people... I say that because it means I do not have the ability to actually see the forest for the trees...
I think in this case I'd rather accept being clueless because I respected this man!
TIme to drink myself to sleep...
9/15/2010 3:28 PM
you think this is bad? wait until those female whores start getting on the sailing list.
instead of being a couple of cigarettes discreetly placed inside a qaul card during a deployment, it'll be some little nub with a gleam in her eye motioning the senior enlisted to the towed array handling space for that sig.
and if you don't think this is going to happen, stay tuned because it will.
9/15/2010 6:57 PM
Where is the *proof* that Capt Solms did something that was sexually inappropriate? Why the assumption that this was the cause of the RFC? Please don't call me naive; I ask a serious question. John
9/16/2010 4:32 AM
ETCS:
Because one way or another that is what the vast, overwhelming majority of inappropriate behavior firings are for.
1)He's not in jail, so he's not a collector of child porn =>
he's either
Sucking on D, has a mistress, or got a DUI. But I'm pretty sure they tell you straight up about the DUI's, so that really only leaves two other possibilities
9/16/2010 6:28 AM
@t - I don't disagree with you... I'm just saying we are making unsubstatiated assumptions here.
Here are some other things that could be considered inappropriate behavior such as coercing a subordinate to falsify records, cover up serious mistakes, etc. Some of the other issues that could be in play are listed here:
http://www.rjhresearch.com/ADR/personalconduct/personalconductframeset.htm
The navy doesn't help by keeping these things under wraps. How can we address/fix things without acknowledging them? Do we hide them when someone goes to mast? Why the special treatment for officers? I know this is the way the system is.... I don't expect to change it. I know my thoughts might be considered naive... but I don't see it getting better with the way the system is currently. And it MUST get better, else these kinds of things will only continue to the detriment of our mission.
Again, I'm not arguing the 'sexual harassment' presumtion... I'm susceptible to that too thought too... and I think most people reading this blog know how I feel about gender issues and how harmful they are to our force, and the navy. John
9/16/2010 7:44 AM
Different spanks for different ranks. happens all the time. Case in point, the HAG was allowed to abuse crews over and over again without getting a boot up her ass out the door. Do not know what the admin folks will award her but a safe bet is that she will leave with no loss or minimal loss of rank after her blatant disservice abusing everything about leadership and the oath.
9/16/2010 8:49 AM
I heard he got caught pumping sans.
Rackburn
9/16/2010 10:58 AM
I heard he got caught pumping Rackburn.
9/16/2010 11:42 AM
You aren't clueless or gullible. He was an excellent Co. Professionally, I have no complaints. In her personal life, however...well.
bubbleburster
9/16/2010 11:49 AM
Whoops. *HIS* personal life.
9/16/2010 11:50 AM
Off-topic question for Joel:
Hey, Bubblehead...how in the world did Idaho manage to work itself into 5th place for highest foreclosure rates in the U.S. according to the latest statistics?
Wouldn't think of ID as being a high-flier like CA and NV when it comes to real estate...more like its next-door neighbor, Wyoming. But there it is.
What's going on from a feet-on-the-street standpoint?
9/16/2010 12:48 PM
RealtyTrac apparently doesn't allow for a direct link. See "Stats and Trends" tab here.
9/16/2010 12:51 PM
Part of the reason that nobody can "get away with what they used to" is the instant world-wide communications, either media or personally driven. Of course, that reality should cause those in positions of responsibility to be that much smarter about behaviors that could be perceived as too far outside the mainstream.
Regardless, there is no excuse for senior leadership to even question their behavior-if it won't pass the "cold light of day test", then you had better make da-n sure that it is worth the inevitable downside of being found out.
9/16/2010 1:56 PM
@casual observer - As near as I can tell, a lot of the foreclosures are from people who refinanced when the market was high, and realize they'll always be upside down on their house, so they're walking away. House values skyrocketed in 2005-2007 as a lot of people sold their houses in California and moved up here paying cash with their CA profits; since then, prices have plummeted. Our house is probably worth 30% less than it would have been in 2007.
9/16/2010 4:11 PM
From what I am hearing, women in his command were pretty safe. Now the guys....well, that's a different story.
9/16/2010 5:10 PM
And I thought homos would never stoop to inappropriate sexual behavior.
9/16/2010 11:24 PM
Has anyone thought that he did not agree with his superiors and told them to F-off and that is what got him canned. I work at TTF and know that he has looked after his people and this is a real possibility.
9/17/2010 10:43 AM
Oh, honey. I appreciate that you enjoyed working with him. As I said before, professionally no complaints, and yes he took care of his people, no question. But the phrase was "inappropriate personal behavior". How could they make that stick unless there is evidence? If it was because he told his "superiors" to eff off, a different reason would have been cited.I will say again, knew him personally, not surprised. If you only knew him in a working environment, I'm sure you are shocked, but if you knew him socially, I am sure you are not.
bubbleburster
9/17/2010 12:55 PM
Was someone trying to get the TTF staff to work past lunch?
And don't try to deny it. Why else would someone who "works" at TTF be posting on a blog at 10:43am?
The only thing better than shore duty on a Trident is shore duty at TTF.
9/17/2010 12:56 PM
You'll have to wait until Monday (at the earliest) to get a response from anyone at TTF... well past working hours there. The 10:43 anon was probably just making a parting shot before walking out the door- didn't want to be the last one in the building. Late day- whew!
9/17/2010 3:33 PM
Now that's not entirely fair. I've spent my time in the FIDE and attack centers there, late on Friday afternoons with nary a complaint from the staff. Of course, I passed a few tumbleweeds rolling past dark offices on my way to or from those trainers. I'd say there are a fair amount of guys pulling their weight at TTF. But not all...
9/17/2010 3:40 PM
This is an old problem. Co-locating shore facilities with real, going-to-sea sailors (part-time or otherwise) always results in the shore pukes thinking that they need as much time off as the guys (or sonar girls) who are actually, actively go out to sea.
9/17/2010 3:49 PM
anon@1540: "I've spent my time in the FIDE and attack centers there, late on Friday afternoons with nary a complaint from the staff."
Now tell everyone what time you GOT to work! (Yes, I've been an instructor there) G'head...be honest!
9/17/2010 4:40 PM
At those making jokes about the training centers....yeah yeah we know, in the old days... noone was there past 10am. Those days have been long gone...well, at least here in Pearl they have, and I suspect it is the same in Bangor.
Even though "real" training may have not been happening in the past, it is in today's training environment.
We routinely have students in classes until 1600-1700. Just FYI for those who think the old days are still alive.
---
MM1/SS
9/17/2010 4:52 PM
USS OHIO BLUE CO FIRED TODAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
9/17/2010 6:44 PM
And what was that one for? More inappropriate personal behavior?
9/17/2010 7:42 PM
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
9/17/2010 7:51 PM
GODDAMMIT MURRAY!
9/17/2010 8:23 PM
Relax...I just need to make some room for the coming lady submarine commanding officers.
Knit three, pearl two, knit three...
9/17/2010 8:32 PM
I served with Murray Gero on Nebraska. Interesting development.
9/17/2010 8:46 PM
Not interesting, sad...
9/17/2010 9:50 PM
CAPT Solms was CO on ALSAKA(G), and I can say he was by far the best of all my CO's, stand up and extremely fair guy...and the Public Capt's Mast on the Crew's Mess was something.
9/18/2010 12:05 AM
Maybe... sad. It kind of depends on what he did...
Like was anyone sad to see CAPT Bawden (sp?) go when he was relieved as commodore of CSS 17 after what he did? ... didn't think so
9/18/2010 3:55 AM
Bawden was the best CO, best warrior, best Commodore the Navy ever had. We lost a great one when he left. He broke the rules, paid the price, but he is sadly missed.
9/18/2010 10:56 AM
That is NOT the majority opinion of CAPT Bawden. Sorry, but that last one came from the vocal minority.
9/18/2010 4:29 PM
So, the word on the street is that he was with either A) a TTF staffer or B) another officer's wife. Which could be one and the same, actually. Not DADT, not that it really makes a difference at this point.
9/18/2010 9:11 PM
Deleted a comment that posted an entire article from an outside source; the story (Ohio CO firing) is linked a couple of posts up. Unfortunately, bloggers can't be too careful nowadays with some newspapers coming after us to having too big of an excerpt, even by commenters.
9/19/2010 4:13 PM
Anon @ 10:56 AM:
You must BE CAPT Bawden. I can say with 100% certainty that the the attitude in the wardroom was jubilation when we heard he was toast. It helps, of course, that his replacement was significantly better AND had a very authoritative mustache.
I still vividly remember the Commodore's call where he wanted us to field strip a pistol. What a joke. I realize he used to be a Marine, but the Submarine Officer's have no real business cleaning handguns, unless they are the AWPS, TSO, or just do it as a hobby on their own time... at home.
Note also that squadron under him was extremely accusatory, combative, and generally unhelpful to the ships.
Though I do now find it funny that he used to sign all of his correspondence "Semper Fi"
9/19/2010 8:29 PM
That would CDR Bawden, USN (RET). Yes, he did get busted and retired as a CDR! Saw the retirement orders and laughed my ass off! What a prick.
9/20/2010 3:55 AM
The only person who ever associated with CDR Bawden, USN(Ret) that thought he was the best CO, warrior, Commodore (etc.) was himself. He was the most pompous, self-righteous, over confident a$$hole that ever lived. If only I could say he got everything he deserved, but he deserved a court-martial and a firing squad as well.
9/20/2010 9:19 AM
Very helpful piece of writing, much thanks for the article.
9/21/2012 12:34 PM
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