What Happens On WestPac Stays On WestPac...
... unless it makes CNN. The CO of USS Enterprise (CVN 65) is being investigated by the Navy for videos shown on shipwide CCTV when he was XO of the ship during deployments to the IO and Arabian Gulf in 2006 and 2007. Excerpts:
"The videos were intended to be humorous skits focusing the crew's attention on specific issues such as port visits, traffic safety, water conservation, ship cleanliness, etc.," the Navy said in a statement to the newspaper.The original article, including video, from the Virginian-Pilot is here.
Navy Cmdr. Chris Sims said in a statement sent to The Associated Press that the videos "were not acceptable then and are not acceptable in today's Navy."...
...Next comes a sequence of what appear to be outtakes in which Honors and others curse. Honors observes that comedians who performed on the ship always got laughs when they used "the f-bomb." After that, Honors and others are shown making hand motions that mimic masturbation.
Honors segues to the next segment by saying, "Finally let's get to my favorite topic ... chicks in the shower." Next are shown clips of pairs of women and a pair of men pretending to shower together. No nudity is shown, but the men's and women's bare shoulders imply they are nude. It's not immediately known why the videos are surfacing now. The Virginian-Pilot quoted anonymous crew members who said they raised concerns aboard the ship about the videos when they aired, but they were brushed off.
What do you think? Too offensive? Or a reasonable attempt to entertain and inform the crew of a warship in a war zone?
Update 0538 05 Jan: As expected, CAPT Honors was fired. Here's the statement from Fleet Forces Command, along with a story from Navy Times that includes links to some additional videos. At least the statement from ADM Harvey says the witchhunt will continue only for "senior officers" who knew of the videos, although I could imagine the PC police demanding all officers on the Enterprise who watched them be retrained/punished.
We've always known that what we may or may not do in the Navy while deployed could eventually get out to the public at large and cause a big stink. I actually thought it would happen during the last Presidential election, when I expected the Obama campaign to bring out people providing "testimony" about what Sen. McCain may or may not have done on liberty while deployed in SE Asia. I think the only reason it didn't was that the election wasn't that close.
posted by Bubblehead at 5:24 AM
151 Comments:
...Unless it's Video Recorded...
TSSBP!
1/03/2011 5:47 AM
Although I think it is funny, a lot of things that happen underway probably shoudn't see the light of day or the news.
Two theories:
1. A fag is using his/her new found power to settle old scores.
2. A conspiracy to get back at Naval Academy grads.
Unfortunately, this "good guy" is now caught up in the new post-DADT military (no effect on unit cohesion) and will probably not survive the first week of 2011.
I wonder what the real military, the guys getting shot at, think about he Navy's humor and all that shower taking?
Remember the age old adage: "it's not gay if it happens underway"!
ps. although he takes all responsibility in the videos, there was probably at least the CO (now an Admiral), the BG commander (Admiral) and a butt ton of Master Chief's who saw ad probably approved of the videos.
Retired ANAV
1/03/2011 5:57 AM
Cue in Vigilis!
-----
A lot of free time on the Navy's hands...no funding for you!
We will see how many friends this guy really has this week.
1/03/2011 6:31 AM
I wish my XO was that fucking cool. I'm amazed that the Navy is getting spun up over him saying "fag" and "gay" a few times and no response about a pilot with the call sign "Romo's Bitch", that to me is way more innappropriate. There was nothing in those movies over PG-13, well maybe R with all the Fucks. If the Navy wanted to make a real change on carriers they would start throwing off everyone who was screwing on the carrier.
1/03/2011 6:44 AM
I don't know if I'm offended or not. Forty or more years ago I probably would have laughed, but when I was on skimmers I didn't watch television on the ship. That also is about the time my thoughts about what was funny started changing as well. Since then if I didn't like it I would have walked away.
I believe this officer and others may be a little young for the Tailhook scandal, but the behavior seems to be represented. I kinda wonder, with no real foundation, if DADT and PC are represented in revelation at this late date. I understand these kinda videos were ended three years ago.
1/03/2011 6:59 AM
Let me quote Bud Kauderer: "Anyone that stupid doesn't deserve command."
Naval aviators may be the dumbest bastards on the planet. In broader context, the CEO of any publicly-held corporation in America would be fired for anything close to this.
This guy will go, even over the cries and whining of those who yearn for a more misogynist and homophobic Navy.
The tough issue now is finding a relief. Growing COs for CVNs is difficult; growing and training COs for the ENTERPRISE plant is uniquely more difficult.
1/03/2011 7:19 AM
{Naval aviators may be the dumbest bastards on the planet. }
Ding Ding Ding!
{The tough issue now is finding a relief. Growing COs for CVNs is difficult; growing and training COs for the ENTERPRISE plant is uniquely more difficult.}
You sure? I never met an aviator that was too dumb to "pass" nuke school or prototype, for some half-assed definition of passing. And woe to the enlisted staff who treat them like other officer students - as guys there to learn.
This is why there are Reactor Officers on CVNs - they make sure the aviators don't do something extra-stupid to the plant. I believe that's why the have so much rank.
1/03/2011 7:47 AM
"The tough issue now is finding a relief."
That's how it works though, isn't it? I mean, if the overall standard is higher than what's available in the pool of bodies willing and able to do the work, maybe it's time to lower the bar on things that aren't truly important.
Otherwise, the leadership that does the firing ought to also own up to any disappointing results they get from the 'Plan B' replacement (including trickle-down at other commands).
1/03/2011 7:57 AM
Go rent and watch any given 12 minutes of Porky's, The Hangover, Superbad, or a thousand other Hollywood movies.
Move along, people, nothing to see here. I've seen worse from my shellback ceremony, to say nothing of pulling in, well, ANYWHERE.
1/03/2011 7:57 AM
On finding a relief: my understanding is that NR requires ENTERPRISE PCOs go through a special 4-month training pipeline on the ENTERPRISE plant. That's the long pole in the tent and no easy way out.
Keep in mind also that CVN COs need first an XO tour in a CVN followed by a successful deep-draft command. Couple this with the special training and that served ENTERPRISE COs are all now flag rank or retired; I think the chit to requisition the next CVN-65 skipper will be returned stamped NIS.
1/03/2011 8:18 AM
The issue with finding a relief is made more difficult by the fact that the ship is supposed to deploy within the next few weeks. Solution: Pull the previous CO (who was onboard with this guy was XO and making his videos) out of his one-star job at JFCOM and give him another turn as CO on ENTERPRISE. A little karmic justice for not knowing what was going on on his ship.
1/03/2011 8:51 AM
This moron would have been a JO during the worst of the post-Tailhook blowback.
Clearly he wasn't paying attention.
Others may see humor and PC-driven responses.
I see an ignorant, misogynistic, homophobic, bombasti megalomaniac who shit all over the special trust and confidence of his commission.
The sooner he's out of the navy, the better.
1/03/2011 9:01 AM
I have many half way night pictures from patrols on the will rogers that will never see the light of day, because of things like this being taken out of context, you had to be there, Happy new year
1/03/2011 9:20 AM
I say reasonable...but that doesn't mean he wasn't stupid for doing it.
1/03/2011 9:31 AM
With all due respect to R's personal perspectiveD, we have the benefit of over 3 years hindsight in the case of these videos.
One can readily conclude that USS Enterprise's missions suffered any harm due to the vids? Even if those complaining at the time outnumbered pregnant sailores flown home, the alleged ego damage was insignificant.
Playing PC is hardly the best route to genuine solutions for real problems; it is more often a route that embellishes someone's career or resume at the expense of someone better qualified.
"In one scene [from the videos], two female Navy sailors stand in a shower stall aboard an aircraft carrier, pretending to wash each other. They joke about how they should get six minutes under the water instead of the mandated three."
What else involving females "under the water" just happens to be in process when some lawyer decided to leak this video
to journalists?
1/03/2011 10:05 AM
"A little karmic justice for not knowing what was going on on his ship."
Are you kidding? The video was played throughout the ship. You think the CO didn't watch it and critique the XO's performance?
For that matter, if there was a flag officer embarked, the same comment applies.
1/03/2011 10:21 AM
"I see an ignorant, misogynistic, homophobic, bombasti megalomaniac who shit all over the special trust and confidence of his commission."
And I see someone who takes themselves WAAAAYYYYYYY too seriously.
If there had been an issue, don't you think this would have/SHOULD HAVE been addressed 3+ years ago?
1/03/2011 10:25 AM
"And woe to the enlisted staff who treat them like other officer students - as guys there to learn."
Really? Woe to the officer staff who treats them like other officer students.
O-5s hand-selected for the fast track to CVN command have no fear. If they're recalcitrant, only the CO of Nuclear Power School has any effective control over them. They can steamroll the XO, who doesn't outrank them, and the LTs in the classroom have no chance.
In one case, a group of such O-5s gave Ensigns in their classroom aviator-style callsigns. One LT instructor objected and was given on the spot instruction regarding the O-5 to O-3 relationship.
1/03/2011 10:35 AM
Balls to brains ration way over 2:1. He states right in the beginning of the video that people had complained so he had to know he was taking a risk whether you agree or disagree with the content of the video, ships at sea and combat and all that. So he walked into the minefield intentionally, not exactly a smart move.
Personally I wouldn't have complained nor would I have turned him in but he knew there were people complaining and he kept doing it. I think he is going to find out he is not bullet proof after all.
1/03/2011 11:16 AM
Sorry folks, but this guy is too stupid for major command. Yes, the videos are funny. Yes, I would much rather have an XO or CO with a sense of humor than one with the proverbial stick in his ass, but also one smart enough not to record his boorish behavior in the most permanent way available, ie the ship's CCTV system!
It was a lot easier to do things like this years ago for at least two reasons:
1. Lack of instant communications. Today, any kid with a cellphone can be packing a high-def video camera instantly connected to the internet. Most of the TV station apps on my phone have a feature to allow me to upload video directly to them. You gotta watch your back at all times.
2. There was a higher tolerance for boorish behavior then. How many of you know of sailors who were picked up drunk and disorderly and delivered back to the boat, tossed in the bunk to sleep it off, and then kept out of sight until you got underway because "He's a good guy who was letting off some steam?" Now, how much of that happens today? Again, you gotta watch your back.
An officer in this guy's position should be smart enough to observe both of those simple rules. If he can't, in my mind he gets what he deserves, not for what he did, but for being dumb enough to let it get saved for posterity.
1/03/2011 1:24 PM
Watching the whole video and what caught my attention the most was the 4 sec video of kicking the football in the hangerbay while wearing the yellow suits. Now he has 08's undivided attention...
1/03/2011 1:56 PM
@630-738
Have you considered the overriding principle that ship's morale as well as attention to tedious but nevertheless important shipboard details were arguably improved over long (6-month) 60,000 NM deployments?
Also, with an opportunity to look backwards (for 3 years) since the videos were shown, the Enterprise and her COs seem to have accomplished their missions very satisfactorily.
Sorry, if we wanted PC behaviors among sailors gone 2 months longer than Vasco de Gama on his journey to Cape Verde in 1497, we might see advantages to China's naval discipline.
At least a few of us, however, would prefer a leader capable of what Capt. Honors accomplished. His ability to improvise compares to some of our greatest military leaders, if you study history (e.g. Brig. Gen. Billy Mitchell).
Just a thought.
1/03/2011 2:05 PM
Frankly, Vigilis, that's bullshit. A great leader would be able to improve morale and entertain the crew without stooping to such lows. There is humor to be found in much more acceptable fashion, while respecting the very well put two rules above.
1/03/2011 2:11 PM
@nhsparky said:
"And I see someone who takes themselves WAAAAYYYYYYY too seriously."
It's a shame this guy with command at seas responsibilities didn't.
The site linked to your user name noted...and says plenty.
Just boys havin' fun at sea...what could be wrong with that?
1/03/2011 2:52 PM
Typical over-confident egotistical blowhard. I am not at all surprised that he is an O-6. Doesn't matter if the videos are funny or not. That guy shouldn't be in charge of the guy scrubbing the shitter. Reflects poorly on the Navy, but his personality is the one the Navy selects for and rewards at every opportunity.
1/03/2011 3:37 PM
The fact that he has not been fired speaks volumes. Any mere mortal would have already been finished.
The record over the last year USNA = retained else fired.
A silly conspiracy theory supported only by the facts.
1/03/2011 3:37 PM
Anon @2:11 PM
"A great leader would be able to improve morale and entertain the crew.."
Entertain the crew? WTF do cruise ships have to do with a wartime navy? Or perhaps you are just one more anonymous PC groupie who never served a day.
Rex
1/03/2011 3:43 PM
I'm an old Army guy.
Wasn't the guy an XO when he made the movie? Kinda like Joe Biden is the VP and just does what the POTUS says, no matter how stupid it make him look?
I am sure as CO, Honors won't make any movies like this. Maybe his XO, ..well maybe not.
Odd how this comes out years later, kinda like Brett Favre and Sterger.
Was any law broken? Any Regulation?
The guy's an Aviator, Balls as big as 500 lb bomb, no BS leader.
Let the guy Command the Enterprise, give hom a Reprimand, lose it in transit.
Patton should have been fired for calling a GI a "Sonofabitch".
1/03/2011 4:55 PM
I talked to a Chief today who served under Captain Honors during that period on the ENTERPRISE.
He remembered viewing the videos (uncensored) on deployment. They started out as just being a brief introduction to a Friday night flick burning with a humorous PSA included (on safety or whatever).
The little bits received so much positive feedback they were enlarged. So much so that many of the crew would tune in JUST to see the XO's skit and not for the follow-on movie at all. He also remembers thinking some of the clips were on the hairy edge of appropriateness, but 99% of the crew loved them, and most liked the fact they were edgy. Captain Honors was well known for his sense of humor.
The CO onboard at the time knew what was going on, but himself had a philosophy of breaking and not caring about rules (uniform regs especially) while deployed at sea (much like a boat on mission - beard chits, team ballcaps, etc).
Now that this has been public, it will be interesting to see if he can keep his seat in the COs chair on ENTERPRISE or not because of this stuff coming out of nowhere from 2006-2007. I hope he stays on even though the videos clearly aren't PC.
Give him an LOI or letter of admonishment and move on. It wasn't as if he was getting hummers at 10AM in a govt car or something.
1/03/2011 5:15 PM
Much ado about nothing. Too bad the Navy will hang this guy out to dry. I'd like to see what the liberal media elites would come up with to vent some steam if they were sent to sea for 6 months with barely any free time off from work. Saturday Night Live gets away with worse.
1/03/2011 5:30 PM
I love the high and mighty media judging a man when they themselves have never even thought of doing anything to serve this great country, let alone see combat.
I wish the Navy would have the balls to tell the media to mind its own business as we have a job to do. I hope they stick by this CO, but since being PC is more important to the Navy brass than fighting the bad guy, I dont think that will happen.
So what if feelings got hurt? No one told my DI at OCS to be concerned about our feelings. This is the military and you have to have a thick hide to survive.
What this CO did is nothing that doesnt happen on subs, and anyone saying differently is either lying or delusional. I just saw a halfway night that would make this look like an after school special.
This just sounds like a disgruntled JO trying to get even. Maybe it was the joker that wrote My Nuclear Family.
1/03/2011 5:55 PM
What a dumb sonofabitch. A total lack of professionalism on his part.
A god damned non-qual knuckle-draggin' A-Ganger has more professionalism than this idiot. Did he, being the XO of one of the largest and primary vessels in the United States Navy, really think that this was a good idea at the time? He was a decorated officer and should have known better.
Guess the title of this blog strikes again.
1/03/2011 5:59 PM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/40899086#40899086
"Temporarily Relieved" huh? Can't say I've really heard THAT one before. Even if I had heard it, it probably became "Permanent". Somebody had to be the first for 2011, I gurss.
1/03/2011 6:06 PM
Is it really news that in the overly PC, feminized, and now faggotized Navy, that people are shocked at what straight guys find humorous while aboard a seagoing vessel for months on end. To all those whining about this Neanderthal, suck my dick! (Does that make me a fag?)
1/03/2011 6:16 PM
A shame this guy will probably get canned. Deployments suck and need entertainment. The XO provided it. I doubt anyone was forced to watch the movies, the complainers could have spent their time elsewhere. Just odd this came from left field, years after it happened.
SSIXS
1/03/2011 7:30 PM
Have not seen anything about his qualifications for command.
My guess they are excellent, and it's all lost in the PC BullWash.
As a taxpayer, I figure we have invested $2 million in this individual. I hate to waste it for PC reasons.
Someone prove to me he is not qualified to command.
1/03/2011 7:33 PM
Not that the repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell two weeks ago had anything to do with this sudden hatchet job.
Nope.
1/03/2011 7:35 PM
As a member of the goat locker, I'd be pretty pissed that the XO spent so much time on stupid crap like this. This is no way for 1 O-6 to act, much less the other "guest stars" that are O-6. Where was the CMC and CPO Quarters? I can understand that the blue shirts and JOs thought this was funny, but the Chiefs should have known better.
1/03/2011 7:35 PM
I think one of the things that bothers me the most is Honors saying that there had been complaints "gutlessly, through other channels".
Does he really think he's being manly when he's an O-6 (maybe O-5 at the time?) AND the XO and he's calling (for example) some E-2 gutless for not griping to his face when he/she is offended by his lack of professionalism? When he an O-5/O6 and the XO? Really?
Big man.
I agree with STSC at 1/03/2011 5:15 PM, though. Probably not a firing offense. Slap his pee-pee publicly and move on.
1/03/2011 7:43 PM
. . . but the Chiefs should have known better.
I'm guessing you're one of those limp wristed khaki-pants that droids love to hate - and despite your delusions of grandeur, definitely have zero respect for you or your position.
1/03/2011 7:49 PM
Memo to gutless (retired) CW3's...
At least I have the balls to say who I am and allow those who would criticize me to say as much. Hide behind your rank all you want, but something tells me that you've got more than a small axe to grind.
Was he out of line for what he did? No more so than the bullshit officers who play the, "I'm an officer, that's why" game.
Oh, and if you have problems with my political leanings, please have the balls to stand up and say so, "sir". I don't have any issue with telling you how I feel. Something tells me your panties got sucked up a little too far for your own good. Oh, and before you tell me the, "I'm an OFFICER, dammit," bit...
First, you're not one any more. You've retired.
Second, you want to know what it means in the real world? Here's two dollars, there's a Starbucks. Fetch.
1/03/2011 8:02 PM
As a Navy and a country we've all become a little too PC. A little too puritanical. Whatever.. This type of behavior, particularly from the standard bearer of the ship is unsatisfactory. I am a little tired of the sense of entitlement exercised by Navy leadership in some of the stupid things they do (see 2010 list of CO firings for further reading). Forget about DADT...what kind of example does this set for our female personnel and their treatment by their male peers?? What an idiot.
Off with his head!!! -- Queen of Hearts
Life is Hard. It's even harder when you are stupid -- John Wayne.
1/03/2011 9:00 PM
oh my NHSparky....
What happened?
did an officer yell at you once?
...or maybe you just hit your HYT without a transition plan?
I may be retired....but I don't want tools like that leading my kid, who is not
You might want to re-read your posts and see whose carrying around baggage...
1/03/2011 9:01 PM
ABC NEWS: Female Navy Flier: Videos Taken Out of Context
1/03/2011 9:10 PM
"You fuckin' people... you have no idea how to defend a nation. All you did was weaken a country today. That's all you did. You put people's lives in danger. Sweet dreams, son." - COL Nathan Jessep
"Lighten up, Francis" - Sgt Hulka
Seriously, Captain Honors is funny! Probably a faggot had it in for him and saw his chance. They will be coming out of the woodwork now and be wanting more.
Next thing you know, the CO/XO/ENG won't be allowed to have girls sit on their faces anymore during floor shows in PI and Thailand (and the Nav kissing them to wipe off the pussy juice).
1/03/2011 9:16 PM
Vigilis, you missed my point entirely. I said he's dumb for getting it on tape, not having a sense of humor. Leaving video evidence of this just begs for a disgruntled sailor to copy it and turn it over to some electronic or print media. I'm sure his brand of humor lifted spirits and raised morale of some, but obviously struck a nerve with others. As it has been said here already, a good leader can figure out how to have a healthy command climate and have fun at the same time. I can appreciate a funny guy, but temper it with some common sense, willya!
1/03/2011 9:42 PM
Hmmm, to poach an aviator-puke term I would say this guy has a total lack of situation awareness. No long strategic view either...basically he fails the don't do it unless you are willing to read about it in a newspaper test--or internet, or whatever.
Are we as a nation really so short of good qualified ship-driving aviators that we can toss this fool in the shitcan and replace him?
I get the locker room humor, but that has a place, time, and rank. And why the hell did he have all that extra time, wtf? Isn't there a space to inspect of something?
ETC(SS)
1/03/2011 10:09 PM
I'd much rather fight alongside this guy than with some uptight, politically correct, office-dwelling, know-nothing stone thrower with little better to do than dredge up old news. He clearly earned the affection of many crewmembers who likely would have followed him to hell and back. Precious few leaders, past or present, can actually say that. Where were all those who were "offended" when this actually happened years ago?! After the good captain's repeated disclaimers, was it really that difficult for the uptight and easily offended to exit the vicinity of the video screens (lots of places to go on a CVN)?! Did it really take them this long to muster the courage to complain?! Old news. Get over it. Slap the guy's wrist if you must, but move on. Pathetic...
1/03/2011 10:36 PM
Maybe the XO is just at the point where he said fuck it! ...and why not have a little fun at the expense of the PC elites and their supporting cast. He'll retire and take a EVP job in Corp America. Damn shame though, these are the officers that you appreciate the most.
1/03/2011 10:45 PM
Well it would not be tolerated to racially harass somebody now, and it should not be tolerated to harass a sailor for their sexuality either. If you have to make fun of somebody, I suggest Airdales.
1/03/2011 11:18 PM
What is sad is the this guy has no credibility as a Naval Leader. Sure he's got a sense of humor and is a great ship driver and pilot. But what are you goin to say to the E-2 who goes before this guy at the next Captains mast after he is written up for some stupid PC violation? Sad situation all around for the Navy.
1/04/2011 12:45 AM
oh my NHSparky....
What happened?
did an officer yell at you once?
ONCE. Until I pointed out in the RPM where he was wrong. Even the ENG and XO got a chuckle out of it. Great thing about some officers is that they're not nearly as smart as they think they are. And back aft, if you aren't able to back up what you say, it's not going to end well for you.
Oh, and FWIW, never got anywhere near HYT. A utility shoved a check under my nose that was triple what I was making at the time. Not a difficult choice. I'm making more in interest in my mutual funds than I would have drawn in retirement assuming I made SCPO. Neener neener neener.
How's that coffee taste? One more thing--punctuation and capitalization are your friends. Try them. Use them.
And again, was the XO (now CO) using poor judgement? Maybe, but worthy of being relieved? Not even close.
1/04/2011 5:47 AM
Bottom line, ladies and gents, is that the KOG is once again correct in his assessment, specifically when he said, "If you have to choose whether to sin against God or the bureaucracy, choose God. He'll forgive you, but the bureaucracy won't."
There is no sin so great as that committed against the forces of self-righteousness.
1/04/2011 6:05 AM
Washington (CNN) -- Navy Capt. Owen Honors, who produced profanity- and slur-laden videos while second in command of the USS Enterprise, has been relieved of his command of the ship, a senior defense official told CNN Tuesday.
1/04/2011 8:27 AM
NHSparky said...
"One more thing--punctuation and capitalization are your friends. Try them. Use them."
Noted. Of course, discussions of grammar, spelling and punctuation are the last refuge of somebody out of ideas and logical arguments.
Wonder how you'd feel if you yourself --or your kid-- yourself had been "invited" to participate in the shower scene with the oh so funny Capt Honors.
Sorry Charlie...this guy has no business tending to any of America's treasure.
But thanks for playing.
1/04/2011 9:12 AM
Well, I hope ya'll are happy--his relief is permanent, according to the AP.
W3--hope you've got a nice full bladder so you can enjoy pissing on the man's grave. When can we expect you to release those pictures of you "crossing the line", pray tell?
1/04/2011 9:17 AM
While we're at it, let's make sure we find the degenerates who posted this sign in their FOB in Iraq:
http://www.bradmesser.com/images/chokeChicken_55K.jpg
I mean, after all, thou shalt not display humor. And it had to be at least 3-4 years ago as well, so timely punishment and all that applies here, too.
1/04/2011 9:38 AM
I bet he is just sitting back and thinking, damn, if only I had been a bubblehead, at least those guys can take a joke.
1/04/2011 9:45 AM
Yes there should not be traceable records of his actions, but given it was 3+ years ago, why now??? I guess we will never know. And you can argue both sides of whether he should he have done this or not, but it should not be a fireable offense. Too bad the PC universe continues to expand (some law of thermodynamics here) unabated and take down any and all that find themselves the current target.
Absent a real big "bad guy" (like the ol red menace) or we overinflate the Chinese we don't have enough to worry about to slow the PC advance.
Sad day-
1/04/2011 9:51 AM
So now what for the Good Captain? Desk job and a quick Transition.... or could Flag still be in his future. I say send him on the USO comedy tour. He already has an act.
1/04/2011 10:05 AM
Sorry, CWO/W-3, I gotta lean in NHSparky's direction on this one. You've done worse at CPO initiations than what the then-XO did on that video. The primary difference is that nobody had a video camera at those CPO initiations because the video camera hadn't been invented yet.
Was the video dumb? Yes. Was it meant for crew entertainment? Yes. Did it entertain the crew? By almost all accounts, yes. Was it meant for crew consumption ONLY? Yes. Did it work out that way? No, because somebody now has an axe to grind against the then-XO.
If somebody was REALLY offended (as opposed to the more modern interpretation of "offended", which pretty much encompasses anything), they could've raised this as a BIG issue 3 or 4 years ago. They didn't. Raising this as an issue now is complete BS.
That being said, we're going to severely impact the readiness of a Battle Group by relieving the CO of its carrier shortly before deployment. Nothing in that video is worth hurting the carrier, the BG, and our national defense that way.
Suppose the new CO runs the Big E aground on its way out of port for deployment? Will Big Navy, the MSM, and the PC police acknowledge their partial culpability? Not likely.
The next media-generated fiasco could involve ceremonies for crossing the equator. Sailors of all navies have been doing that for hundreds of years. Does it make people uncomfortable? Yes. Would it look good on video on the nightly news? No. So, are we going to fire any CO that shows up on a video having such a ceremony on his/her ship? Maybe.
BTW, if we do, you can count on some deskbound Public Affairs Officer to provide a statement claiming that Big Navy has lost confidence in the CO, that the admirals never did that back during their days in command, etc.
1/04/2011 10:22 AM
MSNBC is still reporting that the relief is temporary and even that is coming from anonymous sources.
1/04/2011 10:33 AM
Let me put it this way, W3--was I over the top in my coversation towards you? Yes, and for that, I apologize. What I refuse to apologize for, however, is the disproportionate level of punishment meted out to CAPT Honors for a transgression that should have been dealt with years ago, and on a much lower level.
OTOH, we have an officer like CAPT Holly Graf, who it has been KNOWN was a loose cannon and detriment to morale, not to mention a poor leader and tactician, since at least her DH tour. Were she a man, she would have been gone ages ago, but yet she was promoted and allowed to take command until it finally got so bad even big Navy couldn't ignore it anymore.
We have civilian government employees (Commerce and SEC) who were downloading porn onto government computers using government servers--how many of them were named publicly, let alone fired?
CAPT Honors is being cast aside in favor of self-servers and opportunists like LT Dan Choi. Sorry, I'll pass.
1/04/2011 10:35 AM
And CNN's current story line doesn't say whether relief is permanent or temporary. So it still could be temporary relief.
My $0.02 ... not so bright making them in the first place if you're of high rank and want to go far. Not so egregious that he should lose command. And it should be water under the bridge / ship has sailed / etc.
1/04/2011 10:37 AM
NHSparky--did you ever run a GM diesel in ERUL?
1/04/2011 10:44 AM
@anonymous
"Sorry, CWO/W-3, I gotta lean in NHSparky's direction on this one. You've done worse at CPO initiations..."
Let's be clear:
I've had worse *done* to me. You shouldn't assume I returned this in kind after joining the mess.
Which should own some collective worry about the amount of time and money wasted on selectee "training" activities and how they might be perceived by the public (with or without claims of rampant PC-ness).
Mine came pre-Tailhook and before any pretense of coloring them as constructive uses of taxpayer resources. My only involvement afterwards was when asked to sponsor some of my former PO1 peers in the years following, and trying to deflect the tender mercies of the worst of my drunken shipmates away from my "slug".
One important difference(for CPO initiation and crossing the line): they were NOT broadcast to the entire command using a CVN-sized PAO staff.
And regardless of NHSparky's commentary: I take no delight in the derailment of somebody's career. I don't belief this relief represents anything other than a very sad conclusion to what was clearly a career still unfolding. Unlike Sparky, I don't see the world in black and white, and believe in shades of gray. This allows me to feel sympathy and disgust in this case.
As with nearly every amazing episode of that results in mast, relief for cause...what have you...I can only stop and wonder: "what was he thinking..."
Most posters here should recognize immediately the unique influence the CO/XO have over the lives of their subordinates (which increases infinitely once underway).
My active service ended nearly a generation ago, but this is a no brainer: he screwed the pooch on this when he put it to recordable media and shared it with the entire crew. The comparisons to the hundreds (thousands?) of mashed up deployment videos on youtube don't hold water.
I went to college and was in a fraternity. There should be difference between a frat house and professional fighting force.
1/04/2011 12:07 PM
CWO/O-3--Your quote "he screwed the pooch on this when he put it to recordable media and shared it with the entire crew" makes it sound like it would have been okay if he had done a live performance of his act on the flight deck. I'm pretty sure you don't mean that.
Although I was a submariner, I don't find the video particularly shocking. I don't think he should have been fired, in part because of the ridiculously long delay between when the tape was shown and when someone suddenly became offended. A lot of people in this country are on both sides of whether the CO should have been fired. Frankly, all of those opinions (including mine) shouldn't make any difference at all. The Navy shouldn't be run by popularity polls, the real question should be battle readiness. The last time I looked, we were fighting a war and North Korea (where the Big E suddenly could end up) wasn't looking too good, either.
In the meantime, the President of the Center for Military Readiness reportedly is pushing for an investigation of then-CNO and current Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (Admiral Mullen) as to how he didn't know about and/or stop this situation on Enterprise. Where will this madness stop?
As to the new Commanding Officer of Enterprise, there are very few people with the tickets required for that job and all of them are former COs of Enterprise (due in part to the unique reactor plant design). The last two are both admirals and also caught up in the current investigation. So, who gets the job?
Basically, whoever is selected as the new CO will not meet the qualifications that have been long required for that job. Of course, the Navy will try to gloss over that little problem by espousing his or her qualifications and promising full confidence in that officer's abilities--the same thing they would have said a week ago about Captain Honors (and with good reason)--except the new CO won't be as competent as Captain Honors or they would have been the CO to begin with and Captain Honors wouldn't have been.
The bottom line is that shortly before deployment during wartime, the Enterprise gets an inexperienced and unqualified CO, selected in extremis, who is not as competent as the former CO and has virtually no time to get up to speed on the ship or its operations. It's simply a recipe for disaster.
1/04/2011 12:56 PM
CWO/O-3--Your quote "he screwed the pooch on this when he put it to recordable media and shared it with the entire crew" makes it sound like it would have been okay if he had done a live performance of his act on the flight deck. I'm pretty sure you don't mean that.
Although I was a submariner, I don't find the video particularly shocking. I don't think he should have been fired, in part because of the ridiculously long delay between when the tape was shown and when someone suddenly became offended. A lot of people in this country are on both sides of whether the CO should have been fired. Frankly, all of those opinions (including mine) shouldn't make any difference at all. The Navy shouldn't be run by popularity polls, the real question should be battle readiness. The last time I looked, we were fighting a war and North Korea (where the Big E suddenly could end up) wasn't looking too good, either.
In the meantime, the President of the Center for Military Readiness reportedly is pushing for an investigation of then-CNO and current Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (Admiral Mullen) as to how he didn't know about and/or stop this situation on Enterprise. Where will this madness stop?
As to the new Commanding Officer of Enterprise, there are very few people with the tickets required for that job and all of them are former COs of Enterprise (due in part to the unique reactor plant design). The last two are both admirals and also caught up in the current investigation. So, who gets the job?
1/04/2011 12:58 PM
Continued from previous post:
As to the new Commanding Officer of Enterprise, there are very few people with the tickets required for that job and all of them are former COs of Enterprise (due in part to the unique reactor plant design). The last two are both admirals and also caught up in the current investigation. So, who gets the job?
Basically, whoever is selected as the new CO will not meet the qualifications that have been long required for that job. Of course, the Navy will try to gloss over that little problem by espousing his or her qualifications and promising full confidence in that officer's abilities--the same thing they would have said a week ago about Captain Honors (and with good reason)--except the new CO won't be as competent as Captain Honors or they would have been the CO to begin with and Captain Honors wouldn't have been.
The bottom line is that shortly before deployment during wartime, the Enterprise gets an inexperienced and unqualified CO, selected in extremis, who is not as competent as the former CO and has virtually no time to get up to speed on the ship or its operations. It's simply a recipe for disaster.
1/04/2011 12:59 PM
"Adm. John Harvey Jr., said the Navy continues to investigate the case of the videos from 2006 and 2007 and will look into what other officers aboard the USS Enterprise knew about them."
The answer to that question is simple, ALL of the officers onboard knew about the videos. All of the crew knew about them, too. It is possible that a few people onboard did not watch them, but everybody onboard the Enterprise knew about the videos and their content.
1/04/2011 1:30 PM
"On Tuesday, Harvey said Capt. Dee Mewbourne will take Honor's place as the commanding officer of Enterprise. Captain Mewbourne most recently commanded the USS Dwight D. Eisenhower and while in command he completed two combat deployments supporting Operation Enduring Freedom."
The new CO selected for Enterprise is experienced. Godspeed to him and the Big E on deployment.
1/04/2011 1:49 PM
The new CO selected for Enterprise is experienced.
Yes he is experienced. He also is not qualified on the Enterprise. Seems Big Navy has waived the qualification requirement to accomodate a bunch of PC fairies - and I do mean fairies. Assclowns opened the closet. God help you dealing with it. One thing is for sure, I will encourage every young man contemplating military service to seek other opportunities.
1/04/2011 3:59 PM
The worst part about this mess so far, is not that the asshat made stupid remarks and then proceeded to broadcast them to thousands of sailors, nor is it the fact that he got fired (rightly so) for it, but the fact that the former CO and presumably at least one admiral knew all about these videos years ago. They did nothing. The message is loud and clear. His actions were ok until the media got a hold of the story. This mess is a profound failure of leadership and makes the Navy look like Bluto Blutarsky's frat house. When they fire the former CO for condoning the videos let me know. Who was the CO then and is he an admiral now?
1/04/2011 4:42 PM
See prediction for Enterprise CO after interim Capt.Dee Mewbourne
1/04/2011 4:46 PM
"Who was the CO then and is he an admiral now?"
RADM Larry Rice. Just left J-5 at Joint Forces Command, I think retired.
1/04/2011 5:05 PM
Has anybody heard who the CO and the Admiral are who are mentioned in the videos. I'm also wondering if any action is being taken against the other Senior Officer's and Enlisted involved. I saw from one of the videos a CMC was being interviewed. Guess I need to go to the UMO and have my funny bone removed so I don't get in anymore trouble.
1/04/2011 5:06 PM
Oh please get the fuck over it.
Did he make an error in judgment regarding all the useless PC asshole's feelings?..Okay, maybe so. What's next?...shall he stand a firing squad as well?
He doesn't deserve to have his career completely fucked over does he? Well, atleast he'll retire as an 06 and take a nice cushy job in the private sector. Plus he'll have more time to see his children and possible grandchildren too.
It's too bad Captain Honors didn't choose to become a Submariner. If he had, we wouldn't be having this BS conversation. This is yet another example as to why I thank the fuck Christ I'm not a skimmer.
He should have been spanked with a non-punitive letter of caution and told to carry on with the next order of business. Fuckin' skimmers ALWAYS have to HABITUALLY blow the whole situation out of proportion.
From what I've observed, Aviation generally take care of and police their own just as we do. I begin to wonder if some little piss ant had an axe to grind against the CAPT.
MT1(SS) WidgetHead
1/04/2011 5:25 PM
While several had already posted in the following vein, I must add to this collection of rants against a system that has lost it's spine! Yes a whole collection of senior officers knew of these videos and subsequent to that time found Capt Honors performance merited assignment as CO. And as has been said, only when the "CNN factor" kicked in did this become an issue.
Where are the senior leaders who have the ba--s to tell the PC crowd to politely take a hike???
This is an internal Navy issue and that's how it should have been addressed. Unfortunatley, with the "CNN factor" (everything everywhere is instant and important news) even a bank robbery in BFE gets national air-time.
So this guy is the latest casualty of a spineless system that has been co-opted by the PC crowd.
Good luck to those still serving as the PC meter has clearly trumpted anything else dealing with shipboard life.
This one really sucks!
1/04/2011 5:43 PM
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1/04/2011 6:15 PM
I told you the USS Enterprise was in trouble few months back. It is considered obsolete and dangerous to the sailors. I had a long talk with a nuke on the ship and he was completely disillusioned by the obsoleteness and mismanagement.
It is the same kind of stuff this site pulled on me...arrogant frat boy stuff...and the top staff was into it.
And that part about hugging yourself...implying no complainers on the carrier.
I think this is a cry for help from somebody...stop and fix us before we hurt ourselves and the nation. This isn’t about the captain, it is what is going underneath it.
It is a classic attention getting device...
1/04/2011 6:23 PM
So is your post, you pompous ass.
1/04/2011 6:53 PM
Mulling over Mulligan's mutter. Are you a checkmate?
1/04/2011 7:08 PM
Mulligan,
Since DADT is history, I am happy to hear you will be allowed to enlist again...congrats and keep charging shipmate!
--------------
I think Colonel Jessep had it right: all we did was weaken a nation today. Sad.
1/04/2011 7:08 PM
What a joke. Sure the Honors bites the dust for something done 3 or 4 years ago. Rubber Ducky would say that he deserved it because of his stupidity and the high standard of those in command. I don't necessarily disagree, but what about his superiors at the time. I don't know where RADM Spicer is now, but VADM Holloway is serving in command now as COMSECONDFLT. He was the Strike Group Commander back then, and even if he ordered future videos had appropriate content after he "first" learned of them, he didn't take any further action as the Strike Group Commander. Now all of a sudden when the videos become public, Honors is not fit for command. If they were so bad to remove a CO after 4 years, why didn't Holloway take more serious action. But of course, the Navy Flags will cover for the Navy Flags and no action will be taken. Holloway will get his 4th star someday. What a joke.
1/04/2011 7:32 PM
What is a "checkmate" anyway?
1/04/2011 8:30 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Checkmate_(comics)
I know a lot about tranformers.
1/04/2011 8:34 PM
Wow, I am so totally shocked that Mulligan is obsessed with comic books.
1/04/2011 9:21 PM
When he was escorted off the ship, driven to see the Admiral, and was seated directly across from the Admiral at the conference table with everyone else in the room just staring at him...
Can you possibly fathom the ass-chewing he got from the Admiral?
I mean this wasn't the standard, 'Don't fuck with my standing orders!' ass-chewing. This was of epic proportions. The likes that haven't been seen since... hell, who knows?
I only know what the first sentence out of the Admiral's mouth was. 'Captain, what the fuck were you thinking?!?!' and from there, it just rose to epicness. I sure hope someone recorded it for posterity's sake.
1/04/2011 9:34 PM
MT1: CO's of Carriers are Airdales not skimmers. Not sure that you don't know this, but it kind of seemed like you thought he was a skimmer. Talking to a surface nuke that served on a carrier, their experience with Airdale CO's is that 1) they can't drive ships for shit 2) and they don't know shit about nuclear power. No offense mind you, I don't know shit about flying airplanes.
The whole "only he is experienced to drive the enterprise because of its unique reactor design" argument doesn't hold that much weight with me. It's not like he's the last line of defense in Nuclear Power decisions. Let's face it, a carrier CO has less actual nuclear experience than most of the surface nuke JO's. Power school / protoype and 4 months with NR are NOT enough to make up for a career's worth of practical experience. Just find some other marginally nuclear guy to take his place. And it's a slippery slope to let your standards slip because he is "too senior to be easily replaced".
As for his career, I think we can stop crying crocodile tears for him. He'll still get O-6 retirement, it's not like he's destitute now. And quite frankly, Ray Charles could have seen this one coming. I'm not offended by the content, so much, as I think he's an idiot for not predicting the end result.
1/04/2011 10:02 PM
Hey T,
I understand what you're conveying. The biggest problem I have here is that a perfectly good officer is being put to death politically. His methods in maintaining strong leadership and positive crew moral might be in question. But Topside needs to learn to develop a fucking sense of humor. This man did nothing wrong. But his entertaining videos are getting him fucked over. Personally I thought they were funny as hell. We have Submariners wearing more than one star on their shoulder boards who've done much worse and more creative shit than what we have viewed in the videos regarding this case.
And people wonder why us Bubblehead Bastards are the way we are in life.
That's all I have for this one. I wish the guy goodluck in retirement.
MT1(SS) WidgetHead
1/05/2011 12:41 AM
The Pentagon said December's congressional vote to end the "don't ask, don't tell" ban did not contribute to this week's reaction to the videos. Lapan said anti-gay slurs have never been considered appropriate in the military.
Yep - and fags don't smoke poles.
1/05/2011 6:47 AM
In a free-speech country, misogynism and hatred of gays are allowed. But our nation's society has moved away from these abhorrent attitudes, as it did with racism, and laws, culture, and the common zeitgeist rule against the woman-hater and the homophobe.
Our Navy, and our submarine force, live within this common society, are required to follow its rules, and - for recruiting if nothing else - should accommodate its cultural values.
What this means in the boats is that female and gay labels and pejoratives will have to be replaced with the more honorable title: shipmate. Just as racism is now condemned by all, so too these other forms of hatred will have to go. For the benefit of the Navy and the submarine force, both of which are owned by the American People and owned by them.
This is not a free game. As this case with that idiot in ENTERPRISE has shown, you're either on the team or your off it. I find it painful and think it harmful to the submarine force that we continue to entertain cheap opinions and trashy talk so at odds with the nation we protect. It's time to clean up our act.
1/05/2011 7:46 AM
Let me make sure I have the timing of events correct:
1) Owen Honors makes silly videos in 2006.
2) Honors' superiors learn of the videos at that time, and instruct him to stop the behavior
3) Honors stops the behavior
4) Honors goes on to command another ship, and then returns to the Enterprise, and does not repeat the behavior
5) In 2011, Honors loses his command
The precedent being set here is that if anyone decides to claim that they are offended by anything another person said at any point in his/her life, they will be punished for it.
Does anyone think that is a good precedent to set?
And let's not forget the inevitable double-standard with which this new rule will be enforced. Sen. Robert C. "Grand Kleagle" Byrd was never taken to task for his words and deeds, was he?
1/05/2011 8:21 AM
I find it painful and think it harmful to the submarine force that we continue to entertain cheap opinions and trashy talk so at odds with the nation we protect.
You're out of touch. Actually, you're lamestream media indoctrinated. The majority of inhabitants of the nation we protect are opposed to the gay agenda and the ridiculous PC mandates attempting to force approval (not mere tolerance) of deviant behavior. Get over it RD, once an ass pirate, always an ass pirate. Call 'em like you see 'em and let the chips drop where they may. As for me, I will strongly discourage anyone from even entertaining the thought of serving in any branch of the military.
1/05/2011 8:58 AM
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1/05/2011 9:16 AM
"1) Owen Honors makes silly videos in 2006"
No. He made a regular series of these for two years.
"2) Honors' superiors learn of the videos at that time, and instruct him to stop the behavior"
Though rumored, this has not been reported or confirmed authoritatively. One responsible Navy blogger who reported this earlier today said he was in error. Direct quote: "For my part, I was under the impression that Captain Honors' seniors had addressed the issue of XO Movie Night videos and the issue was closed. I WAS VERY WRONG." If I were a flag officer embarked in ENTERPRISE during 2006 or 2007, I'd be buffing my resumé right now.
1/05/2011 8:58 AM: tough to claim 'majority' status when a person distinctly opposed to your views carried 28 states, half of Nebraska, and the District of Columbia. Dig in, Bubba, the world's turning against you.
And my comments were not meant for anonymous troglodytes. The people who really need to get aboard are the serving leaders in the Navy and the submarine force ... by which I mean every one of its officers, CPOs, and petty officers. This is not optional.
1/05/2011 9:18 AM
tough to claim 'majority' status when a person distinctly opposed to your views carried 28 states, half of Nebraska, and the District of Columbia. Dig in, Bubba, the world's turning against you.
I don't seem to recall Obozo running as a fag hag. In fact, he did all that he could to hide his views on virtually every topic precisely because he is out of touch with mainstream. Just because Rubber Dicky thinks it's progressive to dance around the pole, doesn't mean anyone else has to accept it. It also doesn't mean that people within the force can't (and won't) do all that they can to covertly subvert this PC mandate.
1/05/2011 10:15 AM
In fact, candidate Obama was firmly against gay marriage. Now he says his views are "evolving" - look for him to support it soon. You could reasonably interpret this as "I couldn't support it as a candidate but I can as a President who will have the advantage of incumbency the next (and final) time I am up for election."
Elections have consequences - your vote counts - use it wisely.
1/05/2011 11:09 AM
I understand that the military (and in particular, a deployed carrier) has a unique culture, and that it is unreasonable to hold its leaders to the same PC standards as a civilian workplace, but that is beside the point. The fact is that the military is held to those standards, and it is up to senior leaders to work within those constraints. To put it another way, after you run a ship into a buoy, it is no excuse to say that it was a bad decision to put the buoy there in the first place. In this case, Honors pretty much decided to ram into the metaphorical buoy that marked the boundary of acceptable humor, probably because he thought (correctly, as it turned out) that he was too indispensible to be fired. My guess is that the Navy made a damage-control calculation that it was easier to keep Honors than find a replacement with all of the credentials to run the Enterprise. I don't know if that was the right decision under the circumstances, but the bottom line to me is that the XO of a carrier should never have put himself and the Navy in this predicament. Somehow, all of the the other carriers managed to pull off successful deployments without the aid of embarassing XO videos.
1/05/2011 1:02 PM
The argument I see most is that "We (taxpayers) pay their (military) salaries, so they need to be held accountable!"
Easy response is "We (taxpayers) also pay congress, government service and people on welfare salary, so they need to be held accountable!"
This leads to the corollary, you need to pay taxes to have a say. That translates to a poll tax which is illegal/unconstitutional.
Just sayin...
1/05/2011 1:39 PM
Somehow, all of the the other carriers managed to pull off successful deployments without the aid of embarassing XO videos.
Wanna bet? It's only a matter of time until the aggrieved parties now hanging out on Folsom Street decide that they have long enough repressed their painful memories of being offended on Carrier X, Y or Z four years ago.
BTW, with the swift action here, when will HAG be dismissed from the Navy?
1/05/2011 1:47 PM
Hey RD,
For a look at the "common society" try listening to the content of some rap and hip hop music, then tell me that we, as a society, have rejected the abhorrent attitudes of misogyny and hatered of gays.
1/05/2011 2:28 PM
Naw, I'll just read this blog.
1/05/2011 3:03 PM
Based on watching the video, I'd say one of the cool things about CAPT Honors is that he didn't care what people thought.
One of the bad things about CAPT Honors is that he didn't care what people thought.
Lucky for a lot of us, that prior to Youtube, even God had no idea what went on below 400 feet.
TSSBP
1/05/2011 3:12 PM
@ RD
Since MALE U.S. citizens (except Obama's peer group) have been required to register with the Selective Service within 30 days of their 18th birthday "within this common society", how is it that women must be accorded the privlige of not only serving in the military, but getting pregnant in while serving? Is getting sunburned still punishable in the Navy?
You may also care to explain why the highest person in the U.S. chain-of-command once stated that there are 56 states. Some of us are fatigued with one-way applications of political correctness.
Had Capt Honors' middle name been "Hussein" would he have escaped the scrutiny waived for our Commander in Chief? In answering, please address standards and leadership as role models.
Rex
1/05/2011 3:35 PM
It's a shame Honors isn't a submariner. He's got a lot of buddies here as brain dead as he is.
If you can't figure out why he is totally in the wrong, you're in the wrong line of work.
1/05/2011 3:59 PM
I hate to say it, but I agree with RD on this one.
1/05/2011 4:03 PM
If you can't figure out why he is totally in the wrong, you're in the wrong line of work.
And if you can't figure out that PC assclowns are now running DC, their ring knocking and cock slobbering butt buddies are running the Navy, and where our first line of defense is headed, you are wasting my air.
1/05/2011 4:52 PM
I love it when people quote Colonel Jessep's line in A Few Good Men in defense of behavior like this. The very next thing that happens is he gets taken to jail because he let terrible things happen to one of his men. He was wrong in a much greater way than Honors, but both were wrong.
Mission readiness should be paramount, yes, but it is tough to argue that making these videos provided a net benefit to mission readiness. Are a few laughs good for morale? Yes. Unless you are one of those not laughing because you are being singled out from your shipmates.
The relevant question is: did Honors' actions do more harm than would have been suffered by leaving them unmade. I think the answer is yes. Whether it is a firing offense is another question, one which I will defer to his superiors, who seem to have spoken.
1/05/2011 5:09 PM
RD
Just as I thought, you cannot answere any of Rex's questions, so you resort to derogatory name calling. My how your political allegiance shines!
1/05/2011 5:09 PM
RD,
Honors was clearly wrong, and stupid. But so were his Commanding Officer(s) and Strike Groups Commander(s). VADM Holloway then RADM Holloway was the Strike Group Commander and is in command of COMSECONDFLT. Despite your previous post that the Flag Officers should start buffing their resume, I bet nothing happens to any of the COs and CSG Commanders. I hope I'm wrong, but now that Honors has been fired and the media dogs are at bay, it will be business as usual for the good ol' boy society.
1/05/2011 7:02 PM
The Flag Os are loving the taste of the gay cock, they love the aids.
Coming soon...mandatory E5 and below taking it in the chute. That should get the Flags another star
1/05/2011 7:07 PM
Folks, I am so disappointed in the direction this thead has gone. Lots of name calling. Doesn't appear to be anything productive. Yep, the videos were probably over the top. And, yep some folks probably need to pop smoke and find another career.
Sorry dude(s), it got away. Suck it up, and call it a day. I wish you well in your post Navy career.
As for the whiners; bite me. Get over it. Men are men, and some of us don't give a rip about your PC or whatever agenda.
By the way Joel, thanks for putting this one out there.
Hugh
1/05/2011 7:54 PM
The Flag Os are loving the taste of the gay cock, they love the aids.
Coming soon...mandatory E5 and below taking it in the chute. That should get the Flags another star
This blog has turned into a bunch of children.
1/05/2011 8:01 PM
CAPT Honors quit giving a shit about politics and kept his eye on his crew. That's the type of 06 we need consistently. He'll do just fine in the afterlife of retirement, I hope he writes a book. The damned thing will be sitting on B&S's top shelf for months.
The PC Nazi Police will not win this one. They'll turn to dust over time. But the Capt will indeed be long remembered. Hoe cool is that?
1/05/2011 11:07 PM
Whooopsie, I meant B&N an acronym for Barns & Noble. And hoe cool would be how cool. Can you understand and articulate late night key board drunkenness? Basically, what's happened to the CAPT in his case is he refused to play Proper Politics, therefore he must be Properly Paddled for his nasty misdeeds. Oh what disorder and strife he's caused.
The PC police will die off, but CAPT Honors efforts will live on for quite a few years to come. Can't you tell the upper halfs retired and active will be eating humble pie on this one since these vids were made four years ago?
1/06/2011 12:46 AM
Kind of reminds me of that Marine Officer a few years back who commented on the Marines who rented the van, got drunk and raped the girl. He lamented that for the price of the van, they could have gotten hookers. True statement, probably warranted, but CNN ripped him apart, and he got fired. As one of my former Div-O's pointed out, on a mixed gender platform, he has to be insane to keep putting that stuff out.
1/06/2011 1:09 AM
My biggest concern over CAPT Honors getting relieved and likely fired is this: What about CAPT Graf?
She physically and verbally abused her crew, verbally abused a foreign national naval officer, and hazarded her ship. She was recently recommended by a BOI for non-retention, yet she's still hanging around? Do I sense a double standard here? Her actions were far worse and damaging than what CAPT Honors did, yet she has seemed to have escaped her fate.
I'm not suggesting any conspiracy thoeries here, just reporting valid and proveable fact, and asking a few pointed questions.
1/06/2011 2:17 AM
Ex et nuc:
Honors and Graf got exactly the same punishment. I personally think Graf should be knocked down and kicked out, but the Navy has been consistent on the punishment.
I also agree that flags will likely see no fallout from this which is BS.
1/06/2011 5:55 AM
Honors and Graf got exactly the same punishment.
Exactly! Except that HAG actually did soomething to warrant firing. Honors misdeeds were not even in that same ballpark.
1/06/2011 6:51 AM
And in other news, Michael Vick is still an NFL quarterback. BTW, RD--Obama claimed to be against gay marriage because he knew by embracing it he'd alienate the moderate who are already leaving him in droves anyway. If you think America doesn't care, exactly how many times has gay marriage passed when it's been put to a definition or to the people?
Do I think the Lavender Mafia had something to do with CAPT Honors getting the boot? Not at all. He created the situation, big Navy acted on it--far too late for my tastes, but whatever.
I don't care if you're straight, gay, lesbian, or pink with purple polka dots. But it's a rough world out there children, and don't act like a bunch of fucking china dolls, or else some asshole will be taking aim at you. For the record, I associate and am friends with gay/lesbian people, and the derogatory nature to which some of them refer to "straights" would get them fired as well...or not. So should we tolerate that behavior but not other abberant acts?
Goose, gander, shit like that.
1/06/2011 6:59 AM
Unfortuneately, due to my internet conncetion, I can't see the videos, darn it. Having spent 21 years on active duty, nothing described here in the comments shocks me. To me, there's absolutely nothing wrong with what Capt. Honors did, except fall afoul of the PC police. Which, today, of course, is fatal.
And as far as Capt Honors skits go, one other thing that has to be remembered. People who fly on and off carriers in all weather conditions in high performance aircraft are by definition, insane. (Sort of how many civilians feel about us who submerge(d) for months at a time.) We need those kind of insane people around. When they blow off steam, it's not likely at all to be PC.
A sense of humor should be required for living aboard ship. Anyone in a small tight knit community who cannot find something humorous to laugh about and complains about other's laughter should be shitcanned, not catered to. Getting along in a group is a skill. Some people have to learn it. Sounds like Capt. Honors did it by nature; I had to learn it.
Not knowing Capt Honors, but reading about him, losing him as a CO sounds like a net loss for the Navy. Comments here showed that people who actually worked for him and knew him feel the same way.
One comment by NHSparky really bothered me, and shows some lack of understanding on his part:
"... Oh, and before you tell me the, "I'm an OFFICER, dammit," bit...
First, you're not one any more. You've retired."
Im a Machinists Mate Chief Petty Officer. I'm retired. I'm still a Chief; retirement doesn't change that. Doesn't change it for officers, either. They can't pull rank, but they're still officers.
1/06/2011 8:09 AM
Late to the party but to illustrate just how far things have changed in the USN- several years ago the Enterprise ran aground in the entrance channel to Alemeda, CA. The then CO continued his career and retired as a Four Star.
Kinda makes you wonder!!!!
1/06/2011 8:13 AM
You got to wonder how he could have survive? Pulled a Vicks, a grand mea culpa, painfully came out in a press conference or video...listed all regrettable things said in the video and why it was wrong, take the bigest chance in his life, and how his life has changed before the video came out.
He would have had to do it completely on his own...asking no one permission before he did it.
He would have had to risk bringing attention leading to his own self firing....
Basically say, this was not up to the standards of a XO or CO...I am ashamed of my behavior...
1/06/2011 10:48 AM
By the way Mulligan - I think it's a safe bet that CAPT Honors' references to "checkmates" in the videos is in relation to this rather than some comic book. You, on the other hand, may resume your "graphic novel" perusals.
1/06/2011 11:14 AM
It’s obvious Mr. Mulligan took no one’s advice to return to the fourth grade and re-learn basic concepts of how to communicate an idea or thought.
Mikey, it’s possible you have valid arguments. It’s just that you do not know how to make them. As a result, most readers here discount what you say and blow you off as an idiot.
If you truly want to be taken seriously, I suggest you consider enrolling is some fourth grade level communications coursework. Any grade higher and you’d probably become too frustrated to pass.
And while you’re at it, you might want to enlist the Duck to be your study buddy. Cuz he already knows all there is to know. The two of you would make one powerful team.
1/06/2011 11:16 AM
Ouee, you are such the strong type?
1/06/2011 11:36 AM
I could make the case, you understand language in only one format.
1/06/2011 11:58 AM
Graf committed multiple serious offenses over the course of her career. On the Curtis Wilbur, the Cowpens, and the Churchill.
Honors made some silly videos and stopped making them when he was told to stop. No complaints about him arose from his next 2 assignments.
The situations are not comparable.
Another perspective on the Honors affair:
http://formerspook.blogspot.com/2011/01/about-those-videos.html
Lastly, when the bolshevik rabble show up bearing torches and pitchforks, and demand the heads of any participants in equator-crossing ceremonies, what will you say?
1/06/2011 12:01 PM
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1/06/2011 3:45 PM
The implication are the staff higher than the ship tried to keeps their thumbs on the discloser of true condition of the ship.
You ain't seen nothing yet in reckless Navy cost cutting....
Rememeber the USS USS George Washington CVN 73.
1/06/2011 3:56 PM
Wow, Mulligan, those posts were atrocious even by your standards. Seriously, please read what you write before posting (learn to use that nifty "preview" button), learn the difference between moral and morale, spend some time reviewing basic subject-verb agreement rules, and perhaps you'll be able to demonstrate a fifth grade-level functionality with the English language.
1/06/2011 4:42 PM
Thanks!
So you are suppose to be fixated on the correct order of words, than in creating a picture where everyone can see the world through.
I have heard these kinds of comments all my life.
I tell you want, I see no evidence that Honors improved morale as XO yet. It just looks like he was a better attack dog than most...he squelched the true condition of morale with the whole ship. Who knows, all these positive morale attributions, they might just be coming from a few of his frat brothers dressed up as many thousands.
What was the condition of morale recently....
1/06/2011 5:19 PM
gunnutmegger:
Agreed. Graf should've been booted from the Navy, but Honors should still be relieved, IMO.
1/06/2011 8:52 PM
I’m freaking rolling on the floor laughing at the banter between Mulligan and others. Keep going, the actual topic has reached the end of its course anyway.
1/06/2011 10:09 PM
harold: "They can't pull rank"
And yet isn't amazing the number of people that try?
You may be (or have been) a Chief, or an Officer. But again, what you WERE in military life often (nearly always) doesn't translate into CIVLANT. I'm not saying don't be proud of what you've done, but don't expect it to carry you, either.
1/07/2011 7:42 AM
I believe Jon Stewart summarizes this best.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-january-5-2011/youboat
1/07/2011 8:03 AM
"But again, what you WERE in military life often (nearly always) doesn't translate into CIVLANT."
I disagree, it translates where it counts the most...in my paycheck!
If anyone is hesitant about retiring from the Navy, don't be. The payoff with a large civilian paycheck couple with retirement pay and unbeatable medical costs is worth it!
1/07/2011 4:13 PM
Mike Mulligan
I tell you want, I see no evidence that Honors improved morale as XO yet.
I tell you want? Drop the "n". Add an "h" (in the right location of course)and you will have the what that you want.
1/07/2011 11:31 PM
Dammit Mulligan who let you out of your cage?
Okay dammit, who fell asleep at the switch while standing Mulligan watch? Don't you see what happens when his cage is left open? Get that crazy fucker re-secured and shot up with a nice big shot of Thorazine. Don't forget to have him in his straight jacket too so he doesn't get cold in the night.
If he continues to give you trouble, a 12 stroke lashing across the upper back is authorized...but it must be written up in the evening duty log.
1/08/2011 12:58 AM
OK, I give up, who fell asleep?
How can you fall asleep in a kitchen chair unless you were drunk?
1/08/2011 7:49 AM
Come on, do you think Gates's new military realignment "is not" related to the canning of Captain Honors.
How do you people think like that?
I say it was directly related....
1/08/2011 11:15 AM
2010s
In April 2010, the Navy announced that the cost of refurbishing the carrier had risen to $655 million and was scheduled to be completed the same month.[25] On April 19, 2010, Enterprise left the Northrop Grumman shipyard to conduct sea trials in preparation for return to the fleet.[26] The total cost of refurbishing the carrier was $662 million, which was 46% over budget and took eight months longer than originally scheduled. The Navy stated that it planned to use the carrier for two six-month deployments before her scheduled decommissioning date in 2013.[27
So is the Mike Mulligan sleeping on shift story...a la Navy. This is a fictional story i think.
I begin seeing the affects of the cost control program on my ship the USS Enterprise. We got into a lot of accidents and injuries because of it. Our morale was going down the tubes.
My ship mates have raised issues with what was going on. They only get their heads handed to them in their laps when they complained to the captain. I get pissed off...I want to take off somebody's head, preferably the CO of the of the ship.
So I have to come with a issue...hopefully a attention getting tool to help explain our plight. I know my shipmates are smoking in the jet fuel pump compartment. I smoked in there also...it is also a great shoot the shit room. We got all sorts of lube supplies in there also, against every rule in the Navy's book.
So I take a secret video of the room...with the mass smoking and smoking butts all over the place. I send a copy of the videos out to the office of the CNO, the NYT, Ralph Nader and one Senator. I also send a letter with my gripes and all the other illegal activities with the videos.
I have a cousin in the CNO's office. He tells me they have seen the tape. It is a month and a half out...there is utter silence from every one. I am thinking nobody wants to get involve...if they ignore me I will go away. I end up not being that far off with my analysis. The CNO office is having a big debate with, if and how they are going to handle it. Now the delay has really got me pissed off...I am a mad man...egnore me you won't.
1/08/2011 2:37 PM
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1/08/2011 2:37 PM
I call up Ralph Nader...I actually get a hold of him on the phone. I tell him my story. I remind him I sent you the video and a list of my concerns. I then tell him the other organizations I have sent it too. He writes down the names of the organizations. He says, I haven't gotten it yet. I say I sent it out a month and a half ago to you...this is the address I sent it to. It is the correct address. Ralph says, call back in an hour.
I call back. Ralph says my secretary opened your envelope a month and a half ago. She thought you were a kook. Maria thought the writing was of a third grade level, she was a grade school teacher...she put the vedio aside without telling me.
I could tell Ralph was pretty nervous, he tells me this is big stuff. Ralph then says, what can we do to help you mike.
I tell him he has to go after the CNO. I tell Ralph, you got to call up the CNO...tell him you got the jet fuel compartment video on such and such date. Tell them who else has it. We know the video was sent to you the CNO. We are wondering why you are covering it up? I remind Ralph, you got to get the newspapers calling the CNO's office accusing him of covering up the jet fuel pump compartment vedio.
Next day the CNO is on all the major networks and cable stations saying he got a anonymous video, the concerns are legitimate and are very serious ...he is launching a major investigation and immediately firing the captain of the USS Enterprise. Now I am pissing my pants.
After the media frenzy blows over, they fix all the problems and get concerned about budgets, they so call catch me sleeping on watch. The next thing I know I am in a CIA's black site prison, then over to Guantanamo Bay detention camp and Sheikh Mohammed is my cell mate. They won't tell me my jail sentence...
The economic environment had changed at my nuclear plant...the bottom level people just didn't see it. I knew they were cutting back and getting into trouble...I had no idea why. I got fired for raising safety issues. Within a little over one year after getting fired, my utility stock price was cut to less than half the price when I sent the jet fuel compartment video. For the next 8 years they bounce around bankruptcy.
1/08/2011 2:43 PM
Mulligan, the smartest person in your rambling story is Nader's secretary. 3rd grade level is being generous. You are a serious kook.
1/08/2011 3:26 PM
I just got an email from an old shipmate: He's on his way to PCO school prior to taking his next position: Engineer on Enterprise.
This is his third tour on her. Say a little prayer for him.
1/09/2011 8:29 PM
This is his third tour on her. Say a little prayer for him.
1/09/2011 8:29 PM
Dude, he must be a psycho. NOBODY does 3 tours on Enterprise and ends up as Engineer. How freakin' nuts is that!!! 8 reactors and 50+ yrs old?????
Perhaps he had a lobotomy somewhere along the line....?
Subsunk
1/26/2011 8:22 PM
he just doesn't know when to shut up.
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/01/31/fired-navy-commander-my-bosses-knew-about-raunchy-videos
2/01/2011 8:03 AM
So, I do not really suppose this is likely to work.
12/06/2011 9:46 AM
Oh my god, there's a lot of useful information in this post!
9/19/2012 12:27 PM
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