Submitted For Your Approval...
One of my Facebook friends had a patch made up that I think is absolutely great:
What do you think? Isn't that just about the best patch ever? What are your best stories of off-crew? (Or, for us Fast Attack heterosexuals, what are your best stories of being "left behind" when the boat went out to sea?)
Update 1409 02 September 11: The maker of the patch has agreed to make some available to TSSBP readers for $5 (including shipping). If you want one, send me an E-mail [joel(dot)bubblehead(at)gmail(dot)com], and I'll forward it to Jan.
Update 2244 05 September 11: I ended up forwarding 17 orders for probably 40-50 patches to Jan, so it looks like they were pretty popular!
posted by Bubblehead at 2:03 PM
58 Comments:
On a boat homeported in SD. Half way through one of those WestPacs that only included Yokosuka and Pearl Harbor as "liberty ports," I get off the boat in Yoko to head to Pearl for dive school. Fly to Honolulu, check out my orders and realize the ships office had screwed up and had me reporting a week after I actually arrived. One week free time in Waikiki. Woohoo!
Start dive school the following week, but severely roll my ankle on the third day. Medical drop. Fly to SD. Assigned to squadron off crew coordinator. Begin rehab & convince the OCC that I need to go back to dive school as soon as my ankle permits because my boat has too few divers. He agrees with the caveat that I have to go to Coronado instead of PH because of budget cuts. :( I agree.
Anyhoo, several weeks later boat gets to PH and EDEA is looking to bone me following my "good deal." He soon realizes I'm not in PH. A few weeks after that, boat pulls into SD late on a Friday afternoon with me standing on the pier. EDEA and COB damn near tripped over each other to come tell me to get on the boat and stand a proficiency so I can take duty, blah, blah, blah. They about shit themselves when I told them I was assigned to dive school at Coronado and was only half way through school. The look on their faces was priceless.
Oh, and the whole time I was at squadron with the off crew coordinator, the only thing I did besides muster once in the morning was drive a van through a car wash once a week. Ahhhhh!
Ask me some time how I wrangled dive school out of the command. LOL
9/02/2011 3:06 PM
I did my obligatory tour on an SSBN as XO...got my masters during off crew time...and still would have to castrate myself if I bought this patch.
9/02/2011 3:32 PM
I did 4 SSNs and 1 SSBN in my career. The SSBN off crew period is 10 times harder than any SSN in-port period I ever experienced. At least when you were inport, you knew what to expect.
The worse thing about the SSBN off crew period is those damn nuke officer in the Chain of Command come up with some of the dumbest shit to do to occupy the time. They don't have a nuclear power plant to drool over, so they come up with other stupid stuff.
Squadron actually cares of a SSB can track and fire a torpedo. We did more trainer time than I ever did on any SSN, except PCO ops).
If I ever had to do it again, SSN all the way. I always liked guessing when I would be home!
STSCS(SS/SW) USN RET
9/02/2011 4:38 PM
I did 4 SSNs and 1 SSBN in my career. The SSBN off crew period is 10 times harder than any SSN in-port period I ever experienced. At least when you were inport, you knew what to expect.
The worse thing about the SSBN off crew period is those damn nuke officer in the Chain of Command come up with some of the dumbest shit to do to occupy the time. They don't have a nuclear power plant to drool over, so they come up with other stupid stuff.
Squadron actually cares of a SSB can track and fire a torpedo. We did more trainer time than I ever did on any SSN, except PCO ops).
If I ever had to do it again, SSN all the way. I always liked guessing when I would be home!
STSCS(SS/SW) USN RET
9/02/2011 4:38 PM
STSCS has got it right. Say what you will about the mission, and I'll never want to be back on a BN again, but we work hard to make up for the free time. Love the patch though.
9/02/2011 6:09 PM
I did 31 days as a Middy on 734G during for ORSE workups (I think my billet was "drill prop"). Got to the boat and was stationed in the only SSN on the base; my Pocket Rocket was rechristened "Bangor Camouflage"
-LT L
9/02/2011 6:43 PM
I'll take one that says " You can call me a fag but your wife and I know better."
9/02/2011 7:28 PM
Great patch!
I did the first have of my career on SSN's and the second half on SSBN's. That is the best way to do it. If someone went to an SSBN first, why would they want to change?!
SSN's were cool because I got to learn my trade (QM/ANAV), do great ops, lots of port visits, was single and shore duty in Subic Bay.
After that, I was married, kid, time to settle down. The SSBN was great for that and the tax benefits couldn't be beat.
However, in some ways I found boomer duty harder. On an SSN, you have the boat for four years and there is no way around it. You establish your navigation system, duty is routine, and in a way, you just become numb.
On an SSBN you are always ramping up or ramping down. You take the boat back and have to reestablish your system, get back into the routine and then before you know it, you are changing again.
Don't get me wrong, the last half of my career was essentially shore duty with sea pay and the network I was able to establish led to a great post-retirement job. It would have been a lot harder on an SSN though.
Jim C.
Retired ANAV
9/02/2011 7:30 PM
All I can say is where can I get one?
9/02/2011 9:04 PM
Took a week's shore leave in San Juan while boat was doing day ops out of Rosie Roads.
I drove to RR early one morning to pick up my much needed paycheck. Learning that a submarine-qualified reserve had blown the forward sanitary tank all over the chief's quarters and crews mess the night before, I got out of there immediately when handed my check on the brow.
BTW, believe that was the last time any boat in our squadron ever took a reserve PO on active sub duty.
The rest of my leave was especially enjoyable!
DW
9/02/2011 10:18 PM
I seem to remember an ST in Pearl who got left behind to go to some school. He was pissed at the COB for some reason or another and, in the course of two weeks, got the COB's wife AND daughter pregnant.
9/03/2011 1:36 AM
to Cupojoe,
that's a true shipmate!
there needs to be another patch made saying - "Shore duty tough, you may call me a F@#, but i get my weekends off!"
-YN2(SS), stationed in Yokosuka, Japan and loving it!
9/03/2011 5:48 AM
On my first boat, we had an IC2 who got the COB's daughter pregnant. It was common knowledge, at least by the E-6 and below of the crew, that he was porking her.
The COB really suspected the IC2 after the kid was born. I don't know how to say it in today's PC world, but the kid already had a built in "tan".
The IC2 married the daughter and got out of the Navy. The COB transferred a couple of months later and retired shortly after that.
As for SSBN vs SSN, agree with the earlier poster. Sometimes SSBN life was harder because you didn't have the boat all the time...could never get into a groove.
9/03/2011 9:42 AM
CTF-69 independent deployer. Once got an INCHOP rider with a gold boomer pin. Got a coin out of the ride, and that's all I got to say about that. (AHP-6 is not found in a piping tab)
9/03/2011 9:42 AM
@Lt L
You got a pin for a 31 day ORSE workup as a mid? I didn’t realize they gave them away like that.
I can see why you wouldn’t be very proud of it.
9/03/2011 10:38 AM
A gold patrol pin awarded as an INCHOP rider? I know this site is 98% BS but at least make your stories sensible.
9/03/2011 2:58 PM
He said the INCHOP rider HAD a gold pin (20+) patrols not that he was awarded one for that ride in.
9/03/2011 9:20 PM
I was going to call him to explain it, but since I can't call him at home, I would have had to wait until Tuesday. Thanks :)
9/04/2011 7:27 AM
@ 031038SEP11
Yeah, I guess the requirements for a patrol pin are: 1. underway on a boomer on alert, 2. there is no #2. Pretty pathetic.
-LT L
9/04/2011 12:30 PM
Wow, I thought I was being flippant; I was actually not too far from the truth:
http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/reference/milpersman/1000/1200Classification/Documents/1200-010.pdf
-LT L
9/04/2011 1:21 PM
@LT L
There is a lot more to a SSBN patrol than the alert period.
I was on a Polaris boat so things were a little different due to the range of the missiles and the forward base turn over. Also the oncoming crew did the refit vice the combined crew.
I’m guessing that Middies were given a pin for something less than a full patrol in order to encourage them to select submarines. I’m also speculating that this practice replaced the previous motivational program of awarding silver dolphins for completing a Middie cruise.
Interesting that someone who was given a geedunk award goes on to make fun of those who actually fulfilled all of the requirements to earn one. Maybe if you eventually serve on a SSBN as something other than a drill prop you will have a better understanding of the process.
Also I’m guessing that if T-hull fires off a bunch of Tridents there won’t be an award for that run.
I don’t know why SSN deployments don’t rate a pin of some kind but that is a different topic. They do like to fly those brooms after sea trials though.
BTW, apologies. I was ANON 10:38 AM and 9:20 PM
9/04/2011 4:13 PM
I actually don't wear my boomer fag pin. Can't look myself in the mirror and compare it to the Gold Dolphins that I actually earned atop my massive chest, directly above the LM, DMSM, MSM, NC....But I digress. "Earned" the pin for the first patrol completing all quals. So sad for the Boomer Fags...:(
9/04/2011 6:22 PM
That's why women will command an SSBN first...we all know they can't do it on a real submarine!
9/04/2011 8:36 PM
The patch is a joke - I get it. But to actually buy and wear it as a member of the US Armed Forces and the US Submarine Force in any venue, at any time? Submariners, the supposed elite? Pathetic, forget it shipmates. Could you i,agine the Marines or the SEALs ever having something lame like this? Ditch the patch and be proud.
9/04/2011 8:44 PM
"....Gold Dolphins that I actually earned atop my massive chest"
I didn't know that one of the girls has already qualified.
9/04/2011 9:40 PM
I have a Gold pin. 25 patrols. It was very hard getting there. All you SSN guys have no idea how hard it is to sleep 11 hours every day underway. It's way harder then being on a front line deployer like an SSN.
The boomer tax deduction is a royal PITA too not to mention that we only carried 400 movies. It really stinks when you reach the bottom of the list.
I really hatted the normal toilets too and not having to worry about having 700lb crap being blown back into my face.
You fast boat guys got it the best that is for sure. Hoo Yah to all you gung ho guys out there. If it wasn't for you, who would be dumb enough to be fast boat tuff for the same amount of pay?
9/04/2011 11:05 PM
Anon 1105 I remember you, your the guy I used to punch in the face in Holy Loch everytime our fast boat pulled in to drop off riders. Congrats on the pin.
9/05/2011 4:18 AM
@ LT L,
You're awesome. Take a look at all those lil merit badges on your chest, and tell me the act of true valor or bravery which awarded them to you.
Proud like a dwarf at a midget convention.
9/05/2011 10:28 AM
2 sea tours - 1 SSN for 5+, 1 SSBN for 5-. I couldn't get off that boomer fast enough. So much BULLSHIT! Maybe it's just the way the Navy's changed, but instead of focusing on getting the job done, it became how we got the job done.
Some of my best memories in the Navy were banging out hydros at 3AM as SMO/SRW - the worst memories all focus around work STOPPING at 8PM on the SSBN.
Let the guys get the job done and trust them to do it right. If they screw up, then punish them - but don't punish your crew because you're chicken shit.
ex-MMC(SS)(nuke)
9/05/2011 10:33 AM
@ 051028SEP11
I only wear one row, and bump a few out of the way so the PUC makes it. And that's all I'm going to say about that.
-LT L
9/05/2011 10:33 AM
*derp* "SMO/SRW" (on the SSN)
9/05/2011 10:34 AM
@Anon 418. That couldn't have been me. I was at your place keeping your girl friend warm and in the same condition you left her. Ya big baby.
9/05/2011 11:33 AM
anon @ 9/05/2011 10:28 AM "Take a look at all those lil merit badges on your chest, and tell me the act of true valor or bravery which awarded them to you."
FACTS:
1)
Jun 12, 2009: – "Fast attackers do not even merit membership in VFW posts. What exactly does that say about SSN service?" - BH
http://bubbleheads.blogspot.com/2009/06/wear-your-dolphins-to-work-day-april-9.html
2) Women will soon be assigned to BN's and GN's (and will merit membership in VFW posts). - SECNAV Mabus
CONCLUSIONS:
Insertion of women into submarine service is ill-considered relative to driving an existing potential morale wedge further into an elite service. This is precisely not how to attract the mentally and pschologically fit volunters required for a world-class force.
As submarine crew lapses increase due to lowered quality standards (and some of us already suspect eventual assignments of SW types who are not volunteers),
QUESTION:
9/05/2011 12:01 PM
Wow, this is a train wreck and entertaining all at the same time. Something that was supposed to be funny somehow got turned into women being on submarines yet again?
I got a laugh out of this post, but off crew sucks, especially right before the guys are getting ready to leave. Most nights my husband was not home until 7,8,9pm and he was not even going down to a boat. This was just dealing with trainers and qualifying.
Why is there such animosity between guys who were on SSNs vs SSBN/GN. I think the different platforms all suck just as bad as the other. I only have experience as a spouse on the two crew front, but I have heard stories about fast attacks and they are not much different.
It seems to me that the only difference is that fast attack guys are responsible for their maintenance debacles and the two crew guys can blame each other so I think there would be less ownership. Oh yes, and being on a boat that is forward deployed, not so much fun. Instead of doing a turnover at home, they get to do a turnover and maintenance period overseas and then go out to sea.
Life is much better when my husband is home. It is a whole lot quieter when he is gone, but I understand that this is the career that he chose and he does not need the extra worry about whether or not we can handle it.
I have never met a submariner that did not take pride in what he did, even if it was only for 4 years or 20.
9/05/2011 2:13 PM
Fast attackers do not even merit membership in VFW posts. What exactly does that say about SSN service?"
Unless of course, you actually did some real SSN ops, then you're eligible for pretty much erythang. If you don't know what I'm talking about, well, you don't need to know.
9/05/2011 4:28 PM
Why is it that the VFW is the pinnacle of post-military achievement? Who the hell wants to belong to the VFW anyway? You don't have to be a member to go in and drink cheap beer, so if that's what you're after, why bother? Full of old drunk bastards. I can barely stand going to USSVI meetings, and at least those guys aren't generally idiots.
- Membership eligible ex-SSN guy.
9/05/2011 5:25 PM
Here are the requirements taken right from the VFWs website. Forgive me, I have not figured out how to post as a direct link.
http://www.vfw.org/uploadedFiles/VFWorg/Join/complete%20eligibility%20Info.PDF
I am eligible but have no interest in joining. Guess I am better than them thar fast boat boys. Hardy har har.
9/05/2011 5:58 PM
The anger between SSN guys and SSBN guys is just jealousy. It goes both ways:
- The fact that an SSBN guy can go his entire tour and still remember his kids names and not get served with divorce papers
-The fact SSN guys get port calls and can actually do something interesting as opposed to just being a mobile inspection platform (lets face it we don't have the national will to use SSBN's to accomplish their mission, especially not with the current president)
But that fact that SSN's won't have any women on board to ruin the atmosphere is a pretty big tipping point in their favor. I have enough female bullshit in my life from my wife, it sure was nice not having to deal with any of it at work!
9/05/2011 6:03 PM
"Unless of course, you actually did some real SSN ops, then you're eligible for pretty much erythang."
Nice going, dude! Sober up, get your spelling correct, and apologize to thousands of SSN veterans who know what they did, and for what they sacrificed personally.
We doubt it, but you may also wish to apologize tho the venerable author of this blog who made the original statement you dispute about VFW eligibility.
VFW membership stands for levels of national military service for which every ordinary boomer bubblehead qualifies, but not every ordinary SSN sailor.
We are guessing the spelling error was intentional to disguise the fact that you are an O-6 assigned to moderate inconvenient truth on this blog.
Your defense of the distinction is pathetically bereft of details both pro and con, Captain. Your kind of job is not what most of us sacrificed for and, as Maxine Waters said, "...you can go to hell!"
9/05/2011 6:09 PM
Erica R.
Nice you are eligible for VFW membership.
But too bad you can't read better. Hardy har har.
Exactly where in the "VFW compete eligibility Info.PDF" that you link is SSBN service mentioned at all?
Hint: Nowhere!
In other words, Congress or the Department of the Navy authorized an "occupation/campaign medal" exception for boomer sailors.
Way to go, Congress or The Department of the Navy!
9/05/2011 6:22 PM
Awesome, another comment about women. My husband's boat is getting three. He does not seem to be fussed and will have no issues as long as they do their job. It is not like they are getting aliens although I am sure some of you would take the aliens.
Some if the guys in the boomer community have been served divorce papers. I also heard an interesting tidbit about wives dating members of the other crew. I fess the beauty behind that is that you would never have to worry about juggling fellas when they are home. I cannot wrap my brain around the fact that there are people who do that crap. I was actually speechless for one of the few times in my life.
9/05/2011 6:28 PM
{Why is there such animosity between guys who were on SSNs vs SSBN/GN. }
1) There's not. Lots of folks end up on both. Therefore, we take whichever side we feel like, depending on what we liked, and who is being the bigger twit.
2) This is good fun. Messing with each other is sport in this community. SPORT.
3) This is the part where wives should not insert themselves. Sorry. If you read and don't get it, just skip to the next post.
9/05/2011 6:36 PM
Anon @622
I did not post that to point out whether or not sub vets on various platforms were eligible. I just mentioned the SSN thing because of previous complaints. I posted it because all this here say was just that. I am not sure if anyone even thought about going straight to their website. I just thought I could be of use. Hardy har har.
Seems that a person is eligible based on the awards that they have earned by being in a foreign conflict.
It is funny because my husband has been on four or five patrols, I cannot remember exactly how many, we just finished shore duty, but he does not have a sea service ribbon because of the 90 consecutive days rule. I actually have more sea time and he has been in for much longer than I was. I think it is hilarious but I wonder if that is also a source of animosity between the different sub platforms?
Personally, I think I would take the work ups and the gone for 6 months over being home for three months and gone for three months, which we know in a nutshell, that this is what the boomer guys do. I feel like I just get him home and then he turns around leaves again.
9/05/2011 6:44 PM
@9/05/2011 6:09 PM
Damn, are you on your period or what? I'm guessing you were on a fast boat that didn't qualify. I, on the other hand, served on only one boat (and part of that time in an overhaul), yet still met the requirement multiple times. I guess it paid to be on a go boat rather than a show boat.
9/05/2011 6:51 PM
Anon @ 636
My my, you are a pretentious fuck aren't you? Should I just crawl back to the other wives and not engage in semi intelligent discourse about a branch of the service that I can relate to?
How many wives of submariners do you know that were also ex-nukes? Ding ding ding, I am the only one that I know of so I get the humor. That is what is most interesting to me about my husband's job, that and I understand most of what he can tell me about his job.
Now this is the part where you laugh as you read through the sarcasm and realize that I am firing back at you for sport.
9/05/2011 6:57 PM
The bad part about the six months at sea with an SSN is the two to six weeks of upkeep that follows. I kept track of hours a couple weeks for fun. 100+ every week, counting the 3 section duty days where all the nukes were up 24 straight, with only one other SRO onboard so we couldn't even go pee except in a pop can. I worked the hours primarily so that the married guys could spend time with their kids - and I'd do it again if I had to. No regrets, just a little frustration that somehow a guy doing similar work on an SSBN is authorized by congress to be a member of an organization that is supposed to signify fighting war on foreign soil. Other than the "we had to put up with lots of stupid BS" complaint, I don't see any post on here that suggests any part of of SSBN duty was tougher than SSN's - hence my frustration.
9/05/2011 7:31 PM
Oh how I thank the fuck Christ I'm not married yet. Anon 6:36 has it right on #3, it doesn't matter in raw reality who serves on which class of boat going where and doing what. We're going to give each other shit regardless. Life is more fun that way. Yes it's true this is the one part of life that wives and girlfriends need to steer clear from. All it'll do is start a fight about much ado about nothing they'll ever be able to understand in the first place.
9/05/2011 11:13 PM
All right here is the deal... I was never stationed on a submarine but my opinions are not without merit and I am allowed to express them and ask questions. I like to discuss things that could possibly affect my family's well being, and I like to discuss politics. I am not surprised that some of you are still stuck in the good ole boys era where wives should stand behind their man and keep quiet.
You don't want to be around women, fine. Go back to your hidey hole on your SSN or be a hermit for the rest of your life. I am sure your sea sock will keep you warm at night.
All in sport right?
9/06/2011 4:39 AM
Never got a Westpac augment. Was supposed to get one on my first boat, second 'Pac, but one of the guys broke his collarbone playing football a week before we deployed.
I think I missed one weekly op while I was going to ETMS, and that's about it.
9/06/2011 5:43 AM
Oh, and to put the VFW issue to rest:
--SSBN eligible to join if they have a patrol pin.
--SSN eligible to join if they've been on an op where Navy Expeditionary Medal awarded. (Most common path.)
At least that's how it was when I scratched the check for my life membership in 2007. Have a nice day.
9/06/2011 7:16 AM
The one thing that I think makes being on an SSBN worse is the Navy wastes way more of your time, and you don't have anything professionally to look forward to. In a sense, off crew is "easier" because even though you are working relatively long hours, you're not standing duty, what you are doing with your time is straight up 10-12 hours a day of make-work. Since we didn't have a boat to do maintenance on, instead we went nut to butt everyday on trainers of marginal utility, just so we could fill out a training plan. Then we did extra Eng Dept/EOOW-EWS/Officer Training/etc before and after the trainers so we could continue to fill out a training plan. If you are lucky, you get 2000-2400 night trainers once a week too (thankfully my crew did not exercise that option much). It's not that the hours for that are worse than being out to sea, but it's not rewarding professionally ... at all.
The other kicker is that you know what you are working up for is only marginally interesting, and once you have done one patrol, you have pretty much done all of them. They are all mostly the same. Drills four or five days a week, Comconex two days a week, various classroom training to pad training plans until your eyes bleed. If you are lucky, maybe you get a steel beach partway through patrol. No interesting mission to look forward to, no port visits, just straight up mobile training platform for 65-90 days.
Also refit does legitimately suck. A lot of SSN guys are somewhat overwhelmed with it when they first stand SDO, unless they had a good amount of shipyard experience.
I was one of the guys that "got" a boomer but didn't want one, and I'm still bitter about it. Join the Navy, See the world! And I got my last choice on my dream sheet and never went on a single port visit nor did anything interesting.
9/07/2011 5:41 AM
Being a boomer F@# (as the patch puts it) undoubtedly has its downside when it comes to interesting and fulfilling missions, and the two-crew concept clearly pisses off the SSN guys who work several times as hard on ops and definitely (IMHO) deserve a return -- in some form or function -- to the 'relief crew' concept of WWII which took the boat off their hands upon return to port.
But...what's the value, the irreplaceable value, most especially if you're married, of spending time with your family and loved ones?
I unendingly gave boomer f@#s a hard time over years, and am not above doing it again...but I also get the big picture, and congratulate the guys who kept their lives, wives, marriages and families together by having a much more reasonable lifestyle. Good on ya.
- SSNx2 Guy
9/07/2011 9:29 AM
Erica,
Hmmmmm.
Hidey Hole?
Wives standing behind their man.
Your man on a SSBN.
You left out the part about you wearing a strap-on.
Just saying.
9/08/2011 4:49 PM
The strap on keeps things entertaining, it is the least I can do. Go fuck yourself.
9/09/2011 8:31 AM
Saw a cool skimmer patch from the ENTERPRISE. Guess the Skipper had them doing fast cruises from hell as a result of poor pre-deployment work-ups. Patch read: USS ENTERPRISE - SATAN'S FLAGSHIP"
9/12/2011 10:57 AM
Erica R, I think you're totally missing the point about the comment of us sub guys always going after each other verbally. Chill....It's all in fun and you're taking this way too seriously. You've fallen into their trap(s)!
RM2(SS)
9/15/2011 5:07 PM
Well they were a big hit I had to reorder still waiting on reply with QTY and snail mail from a few who told Joel they wanted one If you have not received yours yet please resend
to me jstiffeyssn648@yahoo.com Joel I am sending you a care package waiting for one item Bear
9/17/2011 1:30 PM
RM2(SS), I realize the humor. My comments were dripping with as much sarcasm as the others were.. I truly am not bothered. It is really hard to read tone when you cannot hear it in a voice...
9/18/2011 6:37 PM
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