Keeping the blogosphere posted on the goings on of the world of submarines since late 2004... and mocking and belittling general foolishness wherever it may be found. Idaho's first and foremost submarine blog. (If you don't like something on this blog, please E-mail me; don't call me at home.)

Sunday, May 05, 2013

Why Do People Believe Unbelievable Conspiracy Theories?

From the beginning of writing TSSBP, I consistently railed against two things: idiotic people who believe in unbelievable conspiracy theories and submarines flying "clean sweep" brooms when returning from 2 day underways for Alpha Trials. Somehow, I missed a post from the "Israel did it" 9/11 Truther website with the stunningly deceptive name of "Veterans Today" published a couple years ago that combined both elements: they claim that the "Jimmie" Carter caused the December 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami by firing "air guns" into the sea floor near the fault line, then bragging about it by returning from their "Alpha Trials" after a couple of months flying the broom. (They actually flew the broom on conclusion of Alpha Trials on 19 November 2004, but actual facts never stand in the way of conspiracy theorists.)

I've always been amused by those whose worldview would lead them to believe that the government could successfully plan, and keep quiet, conspiracies to deprive American citizens of freedoms just because they secretly work for either Nazi fascist oil companies or Nazi fascist Muslims (depending on which party is in charge). This leads people who apparently have enough on the ball to hold their psychoses in check long enough to get elected to public office to believe, for example, that the government staged the Boston Marathon bombings and used actors to portray the "alleged" wounded, or that President Bush let 9/11 happen apparently as part of a plot to build a gas pipeline across Afghanistan.

I'll admit I get concerned rather than amused when I see Submariners on Facebook -- men who've earned dolphins and therefore have shown that they are able to function in a fact-based world -- expressing agreement with conspiracy theories that clearly have no basis in reality. (The current favorite is that the President had a secret plan to get our Libyan ambassador kidnapped before the election so he could trade him for the "Blind Sheikh" -- as if somehow this would help the President get re-elected.)

Here's the deal... yes, it's clear the government lies to us sometimes. A good example was when we announced that the reason we had buried OBL at sea right after he was killed was to follow "Muslim practice and tradition", when it is clear to even the most casual observer that we did it to make sure we didn't have custody of the body when court buildings opened on Monday morning on the East Coast, and some lawyer would find some bin Laden family member they could represent and sue for custody of the body -- a suit they would probably win. This is the kind of lie the government can keep secret -- the ones where everyone figures they're doing it anyway, and no one would be surprised if it were to come to light. That's the reason we can keep submarine operations secret -- sure, there would be some hand-wringing by the usual suspects, who would say "I can't believe we're spying on Country Orange", but the vast majority of everyone would say "Good, we should be doing that", or "It would have been a bigger surprise if we weren't" and give a big collective yawn. That's why we don't see submarine ops on the front page of the New York Times; not because there aren't Submariners who would be willing to tell their story, but because the NYT doesn't want to deal with the national security lawbreaking implications of publishing a story that wouldn't really change anything. A story about how the government intentionally killed their own citizens and blamed it on terrorists would make a big enough splash.

Some things, like "rich people get together and talk about how they can make the world economy better for rich people like them"  would invite a mass shoulder shrug, so it's not unreasonable to believe that happens; it is unreasonable to believe that they emerge from the meeting and carry out a plan to use chemicals deposited in the upper atmosphere from airplanes to make people more docile. Other things, like killing President Kennedy or hiding alien spacecraft or packing WTC-7 with thermite or having the Navy shoot down TWA Flight 800, are things people would care about, and therefore things that couldn't be kept secret. If you wanted to do something like those things, you'd need smart people to help you do them, and these smart people would also be smart enough to 1) retain proof of what had been done, and 2) know the right people/press to go to such that they wouldn't be killed if they were going to spill the beans. At least one person involved would recognize those points, and also that they'd become a rich celebrity in the process. Conspiracy theorists can't believe this, but it's true. That's just the way the real world works.

Update 1625 06 May: Speaking of Alpha Trials and brooms, here's a pic of PCU Minnesota (SSN 783) completing her initial sea trials today. I note there is no broom visible. BZ, Minnesota!




91 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Joel,

I do not believe that there was some sort of "secret swap" deal in the works, but I do believe that it was an lack of action by our government (when help was readily available) that got our Ambassador to Libya and 3 other men killed. I do not pretend to know what excuse they have for failing to help those men, but it really needs to be investigated. This is a case where some "sunlight would be the best disinfectant".

John
ET1(SS)

5/05/2013 2:43 PM

 
Blogger Bubblehead said...

That's reasonable. I'm going to guess that, when it all comes out, we'll find that the people making the decisions were simpletons who figured that "since the Egyptians were protesting about the film that Libyans were doing the same thing, since there's no difference between Libyans and Egyptians" and who don't recognize that we're at war. Hopefully, such an investigation would convince people that having a RRF in Croatia without planned air transport isn't the same as having forces "readily available", and that the military doesn't have a Star Trek-style transporter beam -- that logistics still takes time. Sure, if someone would have recognized at the beginning of the attack that they needed to move the RRF from across the Adriatic and Mediterranean immediately, they could have made a difference -- but the simpletons in charge didn't make the connection, because they believed their own pre-conceived notions that "Arabs are all alike".

5/05/2013 2:57 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Conspiracy theorists give the people who work in civil service way too much credit; the level of detail and coordination that would be required to execute them is extraordinary to say the least, not counting the fact that you'd literally need hundreds of depraved individuals who think human life is an easy thing to waste.

The simpler answer is usually the correct one.

5/05/2013 3:13 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My current favorite conspiracy theory is that humans are the only cause for global warming. At least one one is based on greed.

The conspiracy theories about the Marathon bombings and the shootings in CT are just sick.

5/05/2013 6:11 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There's pretty damning abundant evidence that US government alphabet agencies ROUTINELY groom would-be terrorists so they can swoop in and save the day. There have been several occasions where they screwed the pooch, lost control, and BOOM!

If that's a "conspiracy theory," so be it. It's also the truth.

5/05/2013 7:13 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It could be said there is a conspiracy theory in which one single entity is responsible for every life and the actions of all people on earth. Conspiracy theories are another way for people to explain the unexplainable by blaming a higher power.
I'm not saying religion is wrong, but there are psychological parallels between the two.

5/05/2013 7:59 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ANON @7:13

Go reread the post again...he's talking about you.

5/05/2013 9:41 PM

 
Blogger Harold said...

The Egyptians weren't protesting about the film.

Nobody was doing anything about the film until the administration used it as an excuse. I just wonder which drawewr they were keeping that particular idiotic excuse in in order to find it.

The film has nothing to do with anything, but a man is in jail over it. Still.

The reason conspriracy theories abound over this particular action is because the President himself has lied since Day 1 about what happened and why, as has the then Sec of State Clinton, as have all the administration spokespersons. And the MSM has gone along with it.

IMHO, it is only because of some of the more outlandish conspiracy theories out there that the MSM has started to take notice, and started stating such things as, "The State Department lied."
The conspiracy theroies were starting to look good to too many people because the administration KEPT LYING, even when they knew everyone knew they wetre lying. At some point, when caught in a lie, you have to fess up.

That doesn't seem to be this administrations modus operandi. One lie replaces another, which replaces another.

5/05/2013 9:42 PM

 
Blogger Harold said...

Oh, I forgot to add- it doesn't help that when the 3 AM phone call came in before midnight, the CinC yawned, and went to sleep.

5/05/2013 9:43 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

While I definitely don't believe that the Newton school shooting as an outright, I could see a lot of the individuals with the facts conspiring to withhold or manipulate the truth to promote an agenda.

I don't buy into conspiracies, but I do keep an open mind. A decent portion of conspiracy theories are believable enough. With some (like the Kennedy assassination) the official story is just so sketchy that it stinks of cover-up.

To avoid conspiracies, the government should just tell the minimum truth. Example being, for the whole Roswell conspiracy, they should have said something like "we had an experimental aircraft crash." I know they had to protect secrets, but nobody believed it was a damn weather balloon or whatnot.

5/05/2013 9:50 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Some time ago I heard a discussion about conspiracy theories that argued we like to have them because we cannot believe one or two people could carry out some of the more amazing things that have happened, JFK being the most obvious example.

As to the Libya case, that was just our instantaneous news cycle causing trouble. A 'seige' of the embassy lasted several hours. Hours. And only three people died. I don't mean to sound crass, but if the most a bunch of 'terrorists' can do over several hours is kill three people we should put that in the win column. I wonder though, just what the President was supposed to do in that time frame to make it all better. Sounds to me like just another opportunity to blame the President.

Oh, and the SSN23 causing an earthquake is classic!

5/05/2013 10:01 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I learned long ago not to underestimate the intelligence of my peers.
"Why Do People Believe Unbelievable Conspiracy Theories?" - BH

How are you defining unbelievable?
We know neither how well-read you may be nor how dependent on the mainstream you may be.

People play the same what-if games (for personal well-being) as our military strategists do with their war games. While few of us, unlike a certain navy admiral, consider climate change a potential harbinger of major hostilities, the DoD does well to game the ramifications for the sake of preparedness. If we do not suggest the DoD is nurturing "conspiracy theories" when it "what ifs", why the H are you coming down so hard on people with fewer resources than the DoD?

Payne

5/05/2013 10:13 PM

 
Blogger Vigilis said...

Payne makes a fairly decent point.

Regarding tsunamis, perhaps those not so well-read had missed a nugget of published history (from 53 years ago), as I had.

From the UK Telegraph 01 Jan 2013: "The United States and New Zealand conducted secret tests of a 'tsunami bomb' designed to destroy coastal cities by using underwater blasts to trigger massive tidal waves. ...Details of the tsunami bomb, known as Project Seal, are contained in 53-year-old documents released by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade." links and more so-called 'conspiracies' here.

5/05/2013 10:28 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Do not credit to conspiracy what coincidence will explain...

5/05/2013 10:48 PM

 
Blogger Bubblehead said...

@Harold - I'd love to see a source for your claim that the Egyptians were not protesting the film. For my evidence to the contrary, here's a Reuters report published on 9/11/12, before the magnitude and extent of the Libya attack became known. It includes the famous "If your freedom of speech has no limits, may you accept our freedom of action" graffiti quote.

5/06/2013 4:39 AM

 
Anonymous Dardar the Submarian said...

Do you know why conspiracy theories work? Because people are dumb animals. Men in Black said it best. A person is smart. . . people are panicky and dangerous.

Theories are just like rumors. Every patrol I would tell my guys "Well, we just got the message that we are getting extended 5 days, because the ??? broke down". . . every patrol. . . to the same guys. And every patrol those same guys would have half the boat in a panic because we were getting extended. It wasn't the IQ of those guys, either. They were intelligent individuals (mostly), but it was plausible. Mythbusters is built on stupid rumors. Rumors you "know" to be true. . . but get BUSTED!

5/06/2013 5:14 AM

 
Blogger Mike Mulligan said...

How about the JFK missile gap. It got him elected and was the progenitor of the moon shot.

It generated tremendous GDP, math science opportunities.

The Iraq has weapon of mass destruction worked well....

Watergate, domestic spying and dirty tricks was once a conspiracy theory that became true.

Another so called conspiracy theory (it's true) is foreign operatives (al Queda) destroyed one of our nuclear submarines *(USS Miami).


5/06/2013 5:35 AM

 
Blogger Rubber Ducky said...

Joel: some people are just plain batshit crazy.

5/06/2013 7:26 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Joel,

Damn nice post. I have found myself disagreeing with some of your politics, but always enjoy a thoughtful and reasoned commentary.

I often wonder whether LH Oswald was incredibly lucky or the grassy knoll has some credence. But I keep those thoughts to myself, and don't let birthers and Oliver Stone drive me to distraction.

Please continue to dig in the grey matter and post regularly.

Anon in Seattle

5/06/2013 8:29 AM

 
Blogger Henson said...

My personal favorite conspiracy theory has to do with AUTEC being the base camp for the US Navy's exploration of the lost city of Atlantis. As opposed to it being, you know, summer camp for overaged adolescent drunk squadron senior chiefs and bored helicopter guys.

5/06/2013 8:34 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Where was all this outrage over the 7 embassy attacks that occurred when there was a GOP President? Do you even know how many people were killed?

The desperation to make this a scandal just oozes out of them.

5/06/2013 11:18 AM

 
Anonymous Striker Yeoman said...

I don't care if I end up in Gitmo but the truth must come out. I was a nuke DC on the Jimy Carter. I personally assisted the loading of the air and water slugs that we fired onto that fault line.

We didn't mean the cause the earthquake, we thought it was just be a small tremor.

Everyone get a good laugh?

5/06/2013 12:06 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The reason there is no broom..one of the women on subs is riding it providing air support!!!

5/06/2013 7:19 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Phil Sawyer - COMSUBPAC. Now that's a good choice.

5/06/2013 8:16 PM

 
Blogger Harold said...

"MUSLIM ANGER

Although it was not clear which film prompted the protests, Egypt's prestigious Al-Azhar mosque and seat of Sunni learning condemned on Tuesday a symbolic "trial" of the Prophet organized by a U.S. group including Terry Jones, a Christian pastor who triggered riots in Afghanistan in 2010 by threatening to burn the Koran."

Quote from the article. They're not sure about which film.

A lot of articles state it was the film causing the riots and attack on the Egyptian Embassy. The riots were going to happen NO MATTER WHAT. It was September 11th. A different excuse will be found every year. If that film wasn't available, the riots would have occurred becasue of "Terry Jones" (also blamed in some initial reports), or a scantily clad TV star, or some other excuse.

A little noted article here http://apcheck.blogspot.com/2012/09/egyptians-storm-us-emassy-due-to.html stating it was a British documntary casing it.

The meme that a badly made 14 minute film clip caused all this commotion carried the day becasue the United States government immediately grovelled and apologized for FREE SPEECH instead of demanding that Arabs behave like members of a civilized nation.

As far as the government lying about things on a massive scale-

1. We don't know the motives of the Boston bombers.

2. Fort Hood was ordinary workplace violence that we don't know the cause of.

3. _________________________

(Fill in the blank with any other instance of sudden jihadi syndrome)

I know that I read other stuff at the time about the fact that the obscure film wasn't the riots cause. But I didn't keep notes.

5/06/2013 8:30 PM

 
Blogger Harold said...

http://www.examiner.com/article/embassy-attack-protests-are-they-really-about-a-movie

Another article casting doubt on the film beiong the cause.

5/06/2013 8:34 PM

 
Blogger Harold said...

USA Today http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/world/story/2012/09/12/deadly-embassy-attacks-were-days-in-the-making/57752828/1

http://www.chicagonow.com/publius-forum/2012/09/cnn-hides-facts-cairo-riots-not-about-offensive-american-movie-but-freedom-of-blind-sheik-the-goal/

5/06/2013 8:41 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes, I think the proper term is batshit crazy. Abovetopsecret.com put on your aluminum foil beanie.
Minnesota alpha trials. Are they still as vigorous as those in the early 90's like on the Miami? We had fun, on the initial dive, MBT-5 vent didn't fully open and we had something like a 30 down at PD. A&IC div got in the shits for wearing stanke hoods on the belts for the rest of the run. When asked, we just told the sand crabs we'd beat them to the hatch. They were really pissed.
The final emergency blow from test depth was a let down.



hagar

5/06/2013 11:20 PM

 
Blogger DDM said...

The most alarming thing about the Benghazi attack is that it proves that we don't have a strategy to protect our embassies, and people, against attack. Hilary Clinton yelling at Congress, "What difference does it make?!" and being treated as folk hero by the MSM for dressing down a politician, is just a symbol of how in the tank the news media is in the tank with the administration.

WRT JC Alpha trials, I was there and know the real story, or lack thereof.

5/07/2013 3:09 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes. We must know the reason!

Bush: They attacked us on 9/11 because they hate us for our freedoms.

Al Qaida: Actually, we attacked you because you stationed thousands of non-Arab, non-Muslim soldiers in the home country of Mecca, and because of your support of Israel.

Why wasn't that a scandal?

5/07/2013 11:05 AM

 
Anonymous JoeyNukes said...

Fans of high caliber crazy should check out the David Icke forum or Godlikeproductions in addition to the previously mentioned abovetopsecret. For a more distilled version of the best crazy the internet can provide the "Stundie Awards" on the JREF forum's Conspiracy Theory section is where to go. It's eye opening how out there some presumably functional human beings are.

5/07/2013 12:55 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I read the Jimmy Carter story - as difficult as it was to follow along... I was disappointed there were no details about how the 'air gun' worked. But aside from that, for a really good laugh you need to read the comments associated with it. Wow. Just wow...

5/07/2013 2:13 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No conspiracies here - just incompetence and ass-covering.

5/07/2013 2:19 PM

 
Blogger KellyJ said...

My favorite is the secret submarine base in Nevada. People see the "Naval Undersea Warfare Center" sign at Hawthorne NV and assume it means submarine base (The NUWC Det actually reclaims valuable metals from silver-zinc batteries and stores a lot of the legacy equipment as ships switch over to COTS equipment; the legacy stuff is tagged for use as spares for the remaining non-COTS ships).

As for the Egypt riots...that was a protest to get the Blind Sheik released from jail. Absolutely no one had any clue about "the movie" until the Obama admin threw it out their.

5/07/2013 9:22 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

KellyJ, they decom'd that last brac. It was moved back to autec with the alien base.

5/07/2013 11:41 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

More COB issues in K-Bay coming soon.

5/08/2013 7:17 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I know right? I mean how do people belive that a dude was killed and then came back to life 3 days later? or that a man was given a set of engraved golden plates from an angel as the one and only gospel, or a buch of jews caught a most tubular wave and made it to the promised land. Or that if you don't sacrifice (insert human, animal, or plant life here)you will anger one of the many elemental God's. Sounds like the same crap to me, so what makes your brand of crap better than anyone else's?

5/08/2013 8:18 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

When CTers pop up after an event such as Boston, I pay them no mind. By doing that you marginalize them and it tells them in no uncertain terms that they are full of crap.

5/08/2013 8:26 AM

 
Blogger Unknown said...

Why do people believe in conspiracy theories? I wondered about that on a trip through Russia, where many of the locals fervently believe that a Dark Hand is always messing things up. The West. The Germans. The Jews (yes, still). I came to the conclusion that we humans really need causality. If something terrible happens we want to know who dun it and why. Saying, "We screwed up" is insufficient even when true. Absent real, fact-based causality (or when the facts don't comport with what we already believe) we invent stuff.
Except in a few cities, Russia is still Nigeria with snow. It used to be an empire. Now look. Somebody is to blame. It can't be them. So they spin conspiracies.
And so do we.
Robin White

5/08/2013 10:50 AM

 
Blogger Gunner Goz said...

Conspiracy theories are inevitably used by the intellectually weak or lazy as a substitute for thoughtful study of an event or issue.

5/08/2013 11:43 AM

 
Anonymous boomerchop said...

Anonymous from 5/07/2013 11:05 AM:

Exactly. Why is THIS specific concept so hard for anyone other than "conspiracy theory nuts" to consider as a possibility?

5/08/2013 12:47 PM

 
Anonymous Indiana Subs said...

A few years ago, the History Channel featured a show called UFO Hunters. On 5/13/2009, the network aired an episode called Underwater Area 51 spotlighting AUTEC. Coincidentally, this episode aired while I was present at AUTEC as a shipboard safety observer on one of the surface vessels participating in the ASUW phase of the submarine command course. When I returned home, my wife jokingly asked me if I saw any aliens. Obviously I hadn't but we both had a very good laugh when we watched a playback of the episode.

Description from UFO Hunter’s episode guide …

“Everyone's heard of Area 51--Groom Lake, Nevada. However, 2,500 miles away there's an underwater facility that's also highly secretive. Perched on the cusp of The Bermuda Triangle, it's called AUTEC. The Atlantic Undersea Test and Evaluation Center is a laboratory said to be used by the U.S. Navy for weapons testing and underwater research. UFO and USO activity in and around AUTEC fuels speculation that the U.S. government is secretly working with extraterrestrials; engineering and testing alien technology. The team heads here to speak with former base employees and to search the waters around one of America's most top-secret facilities.”

5/08/2013 4:36 PM

 
Blogger Vigilis said...

History, to which many, including residents of the "free world", have been customarily ignorant, has recorded many actual conspiracies. So many, in fact, that they have been divided by type:

Cabals - associations between religious, political, or tribal officials to further their own ends, usually by intrigue.

Conspiracy (civil) - agreements between persons to deceive, mislead, or defraud others of their legal rights, or to gain an unfair advantage.

Conspiracy (crime) - agreements between persons to break the law in the future, in some cases having committed an act to further that agreement

Conspiracy (political) - involving the overthrow of governments.

Even in First World countries (e.g. US, UK) citizens are rarely ever aware of the first 3 types, which are the more numerous. The last category, political conspiracies, have made the front pages of major news outlets in modern lifetimes just about every year or so.

Source: check out this page.

Why, without any formal education in the topic per se are so many people aware of conspiracy possibilities? As you may find, historical results have been so sinister that the danger has passed by word of mouth from each generation to the next. According to some of our elected politicians, U.S. into every major conflict has involved an uprovoked enemy attack, often naval. My personal favorite was the "Gulf of Tonkin Incident", which allegedly precipitated retaliation against North Viet Nam.

If as some comments above say, "Conspiracy theories are inevitably used by the intellectually weak or lazy as a substitute for thoughtful study of an event or issue" , then it certainly appears that the intellectually weak or lazy instigators have been some of our elected politicians.

5/08/2013 7:10 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Republicans think Obama is personally responsible for a single gun fight on the other side of the planet, but he had nothing to do with OBL getting killed or the dow going over 15000.

5/08/2013 7:48 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Robin White, AH, I see you surfaced. Good to see you out and about! When you writing your next submarine novel?



hagar

5/08/2013 11:30 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Democrats think that Obama's not getting any action on the side. But if he is, they think it's okay because all Democratic Presidents get some action on the side. On occasion, it even escalates to a contest, like between Kennedy and Johnson.

5/09/2013 8:22 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's clear to anyone with even half a brain that Obama deep-sixed the Benghazi episode in order to prevent the terrorism issue from rising abruptly on his watch just before the election.

If you can't see that and honestly admit it to at least yourself...you really can't be helped.

The head U.S. gov't representative in Libya knew it was terrorism at the time. How could the president possibly not have? The Muslim movie smokescreen was just that.

Don't like bite of reality? Don't bring the issue up in the first place.

Should Obama be impeached over this, considering that he let Americans die in order to help ensure his election by the massively uninformed? You be the judge.

5/09/2013 8:22 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Democrats think that Obama's not getting any action on the side. But if he is, they think it's okay because all Democratic Presidents get some action on the side. On occasion, it even escalates to a contest, like between Kennedy and Johnson.

5/09/2013 8:23 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

P.S. Like most Americans these days, I really don't give a flying fuck re. Obama one way or the other.

Why? Follow the trend line of history:

Global sovereign nations in 1900: ~50

Global sovereign nations in 1950: ~100

Global sovereign nations in 2000: ~200

Exercise to the student: Connect the dots. This is our reality. Just sayin'.

5/09/2013 8:28 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
-Hanlon's Razor

5/09/2013 11:06 PM

 
Anonymous Dardar the Submarian said...

Also; "There's no "dumbass" vaccine.

Jimmy Buffet

5/10/2013 4:51 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's fun watching the republicans piss themselves over Hilary. They should keep this up, it's a sure winner.

5/10/2013 7:21 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rig ship for reduced intelligence. There goes the neighborhood...

5/11/2013 9:54 PM

 
Blogger Harold said...

And remember, not even a few month ago, but only a few short weeks ago, any conservative who stated out loud that the IRS was deliberately targeting conservative tea party groups believed in a batshit crazy conspiaracy theory, and was paranoid to boot.

Oops. The IRS WAS targeting conservative tea party groups.

When the government insists on making some paranoid fantasies real, it becomes easier to believe others may be real.

And, we have to face the a reality regarding Benghazi.

The President lied about what hapened there and why the day following the attack. He wasn't mistaken- he was LYING. The Secretary of State lied about what happened in Benghazi the day after it happened. She wasn't mistaken- she was LYING. All officials speaking officially for the goverenment in the immediate aftermath- were lying. SOME of them may not have known the truth. But most did, and all those at the lighest levels did.

As far as Grand Conspiracy Theories go, that is, the secret cabal that is controlling the world, those theories are really batshit crazy. I have a deal with a buddy from HS that we made 40 some odd years ago. We're both on the lookout for the group secretly controlling the world. When we find them, we'll inform each other, then the both of us will go to them and apply for a job. A high paying one, of course. We haven't yet found them. If you're reading this and are one of those cabal members, feel free to contact me with employment information.

5/12/2013 6:51 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The IRS confession by the Ohole administration was a Friday data dump effort to overtake the news cycle and divert attention from the real story - Benghazi. Except for one small problem: Benghazi and the administration using the IRS as Ohole's Gestapo goons are both real stories.

This shit is about to get real. Over the next week watch for some attention diverting warfare, homeland "terror" event, or giant terror attack prevented single-handedly by the Ohole administration.

5/12/2013 9:30 PM

 
Blogger Harold said...

"This shit is about to get real. Over the next week watch for some attention diverting warfare, homeland "terror" event, or giant terror attack prevented single-handedly by the Ohole administration."

And this comment is a prime example of an answer to your question.

5/12/2013 9:38 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sometimes I like to talk into my sleeve while staring at a random person while in public. It makes people very paranoid, or if they have all of their marbles it makes them think I'm nuts. Either way it's fun.

5/12/2013 10:48 PM

 
Blogger KellyJ said...

Or just send this text to a random number:
Ok, the body is disposed of. What the next step?

5/13/2013 12:14 AM

 
Blogger Harold said...

Then you have this http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/05/outrage-obama-administration-allowed-radical-cleric-to-curse-us-navy-seal-heroes-at-funeral-services-video/

have you seen it reported in any mainstream media? I read it today fot the first time- I'm outraged- not that I can do anything about it. But why isn't this front page news? Conspiracy? Or- does the media simply work with a template that says- nothing bad can be said about Muslims, because Islam is above criticism.

Despite journolist- which was a conspiracy, I don't believe that omission of news like this is a conpiracy per se. But- over 90% of professional journalist emplyed by the major televison networks and newspapers voted Democratic. There doesn't have to be a conspiracy amongst them to black out news that reflects poorly on this administration. It simply happens. Because they all think the same. They all want to get a Pulitzer Prize like Woodward and Bernstein. Which means they have to bring down a president- a REPUBLICAN president, not a Democrat one.

I know people who still belive the fake ANG paperwork about President Bush is truth- becasue it was reported by every single paper in the United States, while the fakery part was not. And the item I posted above- has anyome here seen it published- anywhere?

5/13/2013 6:40 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ah yes, the Gateway Pundit. What a reasonable and unbiased source.

I only wish you'd had this fire for government accountability in the 2000s. Let me guess, your taxes suddenly became too high in 2008.

5/13/2013 8:18 PM

 
Blogger etc_ss_ret said...

Harold you can find this in the MSM. Of course, it's not sensationalized, it's more fact based.

Turns out the funeral was combined for all who lost their lives that day - Christians and Muslims alike. The prayer is a standard prayer that basically says folks that go to heaven are better than those damned to hell....very much like the Christian prayer that had been spoken moments before.

Now are you "outraged" that a Priest was allowed to curse over the fallen Muslims?

Get a grip!

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/05/09/did-an-imam-really-use-arabic-prayer-to-covertly-damn-fallen-seal-team-6-members-to-hell-during-their-funeral/

5/14/2013 7:18 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The blaze is not a MSM news site any more than gateway pundit is. They are both blog/opinion sites that comment on the news just like this is a blog site to comment on submarine life. Do they have a TV presence? Sure, but so does the ShamWow Guy.

5/15/2013 7:26 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Conspiracy theories: Like Obongo covering up complete and total incompetence on Benghazi, or illegal targeting of groups by Obongo's IRS and covering it up, or perhaps Fast and Furious, or maybe AP wiretap-gate?

Conspiracy theories from Obongo and his progressive tribe of fucktards? Naw, nothing to see here. Move along.

5/15/2013 8:05 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

While I'm not very fond of the Obama administration (I voted for Gary Johnson), I still think that anybody who uses names like "Obongo," "Nobama," and other stupid shit names are not worth listening to. Seriously, listen to yourselves. You sound like stupid whiny kids. Just use his real fucking name like the rest of us grown-ups. You aren't witty or funny. Even if what you say does have some merit, I can't take you seriously.

5/15/2013 9:53 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Barack Hussein Obama...

...or...

Barry Soetoro...?

5/15/2013 10:02 PM

 
Blogger Henson said...

How about you refer to him with the respect properly shown to any occupant of that office. There are plenty of active duty folks on this site, especially officers, and none of us should need to be reminded how infantile it is to disrespect that office and then demand respect ourselves. Get freakin' real.

I called President Bush "President Bush" - even when I thought he was being dumb. Now I show the current president that same respect and consideration - even when I think he's being dumb. Why? Because I'm adult enough to recognize that showing respect to the office (and to the voters who put him there) doesn't cost me anything. By that same coin, showing disrespect to that office, regardless of the occupant, diminishes me. It diminishes the United States Navy. And it diminishes the entire submarine community.

In short, grow the fuck up. Even if you're "only a vet," (like I am) - you know better.

5/16/2013 11:52 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Back to the subject at hand, as to "Why Do People Believe Unbelievable Conspiracy Theories?"...here's a few so-called conspiracy theories that one would have called "unbelievable" with the proper lack of information:

* "The IRS is demanding Tea Party non-profits provide their donor lists, and insisting that right-to-life non-profit applicants pledge not to protest against Planned Parenthood."

* "Right before our national election, the administration lied about the reason for the Benghazi attacks and killing of Ambassador Stevens."

* "The Justice Department has been seizing wide-ranging phone logs of Associated Press reporters."

5/16/2013 3:49 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Seriously, listen to yourselves. You sound like stupid whiny kids. Just use his real fucking name like the rest of us grown-ups. You aren't witty or funny. Even if what you say does have some merit, I can't take you seriously.

In short, grow the fuck up. Even if you're "only a vet," (like I am) - you know better.

I REALLY don't care what you fucktards think of me calling Obongo, "Obongo." He is a pathetic POS undeserving of the office, and he's only there because enough of the population has been dumbed down to your level. Meanwhile, I'll enjoy watching him roast over Benghazi and the IRS abuse - it's not going to get any better for him, there is way more to both of these than has made it to the public yet.

5/16/2013 5:43 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/reference/messages/Documents/ALNAVS/ALN2013/ALN13035.txt

O5 list is out

5/16/2013 6:13 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I REALLY don't care what you fucktards think of me calling Obongo, "Obongo." He is a pathetic POS undeserving of the office, and he's only there because enough of the population has been dumbed down to your level. Meanwhile, I'll enjoy watching him roast over Benghazi and the IRS abuse - it's not going to get any better for him, there is way more to both of these than has made it to the public yet.
President Obama is eligible to serve as President according to the Constitution and was elected by its process. He every bit deserves the office to which he has been elected, even if he has done things you disagree with since holding it. Your comment indicates that you disdain our system of government and our democratic processes. If that is really the case then I suggest you move to Egypt, Russia, or China where you'll never have to worry about a "dumbed down population" voting for its leadership.

5/16/2013 10:09 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Conspiracy theories arise because the decision tree that politicians follow is not transparent to John Q. Public. If you aren't a poly sci/international relations major or spend a lot of spare time trying to understand the process, then you really don't comprehend why elected leaders do the majority of what they do.

In the absence of that information, their behavior doesn't make any sense. So the mind wanders and inserts conspiracy theories.

5/16/2013 10:16 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Author Bob Woodward on Benghazi.

5/17/2013 6:40 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Link for Woodward's comments: http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/woodward-i-would-not-dismiss-benghazi-similar-watergate_724707.html

5/17/2013 6:41 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

HERE is another conspiracy theory...

"IRS Deliberately Chose Not to Fess Up to Scandal Before Election."

Oh, wait a minute. Make that a reality.

5/17/2013 9:52 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

And NOW...even the Chicago Tribune is recognizing this situation in Washington as a fight for "The Republic".

But go ahead and call it an unbelievable conspiracy theory. It at least helps to make things a little more black and white for the rest of us.

5/18/2013 10:38 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I heard there is a conspiracy to flood media with a string of stories connected after the fact to make us slowly accept that everything is a lie so that when we are lied to we are just happy they admitted it.

5/18/2013 12:32 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Not getting any traction on Benghazi or the IRS? Better start bitching about an umbrella.

What passes for the modern GOP is absolutely pathetic.

5/18/2013 9:25 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Benghazi and throw IRS scandal are non issues? What more does this POS need to do to get your attention?

5/19/2013 6:33 AM

 
Blogger Bubblehead said...

Deleting some spamments. Also, regarding the IRS and Benghazi, the fact that "many government employees are incompetent" isn't a conspiracy; it's a known fact. Regarding the AP phone record tracking (not "wiretapping"), they did get a court order, so I'm not seeing that it's a huge conspiracy. Maybe they did need to stop a leak, and tracking the press is a better way to do it from a separation of powers perspective than tracking Congressional phone records.

5/19/2013 8:30 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you truly believe that the Benghazi Charlie Foxtrot and IRS-gate can be blamed on "many government employees are incompetent," you are one seriously stupid bastard.

5/19/2013 11:29 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Joel isn't unintelligent. People in general hold onto their political beliefs with a death grip, but it's in an unconscious fashion...just as they were created.

There's a neural/hormone-driven 'feel good' that the political-partisans stroke themselves with whenever their beliefs are 'reinforced' in some way...imagined or otherwise.

Likewise, there's a downer/depressive effect whenever the political-partisan's beliefs are challenged by either argument or world events.

Net effect: reality gets dismissed in favor of false or lightly-evidenced beliefs. It just feels better.

Hardly a unique thing to any one human being. Partisan political beliefs are simply unconscious behavior...and therefore, on occasion, "stupid" in the sense of being unwittingly self-defeating.

YMMV.

5/19/2013 9:48 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

P.S. A tonic I'd encourage for anyone, I laugh at people with strong political beliefs -- left or right -- rather than take them seriously. They are all idiots walking around with eyeglasses whose lenses are one-way mirrors facing inwards. For them, facts, and all-too-clearly-connected dots, be damned. They wouldn't know a truth that goes against their prejudiced beliefs if it hit them in the head like a two-by-four.

5/19/2013 9:53 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/05/what_hurts_the_most_about_benghazi.html

5/20/2013 9:42 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Evergreen Aviation Admits to Chemtrail Contracts with USAF
http://philosophers-stone.co.uk/wordpress/2011/01/evergreen-aviation-admits-to-chemtrail-contracts-with-usaf/

5/28/2013 5:32 PM

 
Blogger Zayne Carrick said...

When I read the top of your blog site I thought that, perhaps you were another "negative nancy" talking down our country, but after reading this article about ridiculous conspiracy theories i'm starting to love your work. I talk about this all the time with a friend in the Kansas city restaurant supply thank you for presenting a well researched and reasonable view, I hope this destroys some paranoia in the people of this beautiful country.

6/04/2013 10:09 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well given that I am the person that posted on FB about the story on WND.com that mentioned the theory that purportedly reported about the possibility of a missile from a US Sub shooting down TWA Flight 800 I have a response. I posted the link to "stir the pot" and see what kind of responses it would generate. I never stated I believed the story. But the very first responder was Joel dismissing out of hand the story based on where it came from as opposed to any well thought out reasoning as to why it was not true. Then if you follow the "discussion" you will see folks dismissing the story because of some preconceived notion on how they thought ATC radar did or did not work. Several saying it was not possible that radar would have detected surface contacts in the area of where TWA Flight 800 went down even though the NTSB own published radar images SHOWED surface contacts in the area. So what the exercise demonstrated to me was that many of the people posting were willing to swallow what ever "line" the government is willing to give the masses and are not willing to form their own objective conclusions. I guess that takes too much work as opposed to accepting what they read from the government trough called the news media.

6/26/2013 7:10 PM

 
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7/23/2013 12:36 AM

 
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7/25/2013 7:43 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The stupidest story I ever heard in my life was one about box cutters being used to take over 4 US jet liners. That NORAD couldn't get there on time and a general in charge couldn't be located for over an hour at NORAD on the morning of 911. That a corporation named Silverstein had just purchased the twin towers two months prior to its demise and took out four billion dollars worth of insurance. That building 7 fell at 5:20 pm on 911 in the exact manor as the twin towers but no plane hit building 7. Yeah, that is some ridiculous shot folks!

10/01/2013 7:43 PM

 
Anonymous Stopwastingtaxdollars said...

Problem is that BOTH PARTIES are guilty and even then what we are seeing is the *Fake* New World Order such as the 1993 truck bombing of the World Trade Center that was meant to topple the towers or so was claimed during an interview with the FBI in a helicopter.

Some how the VIN number of the yellow rider truck survived a 1500 pound bomb and even better remained READABLE for the investigators!

And the suspect got arrested during a FBI raid for getting cash back after claiming the truck was stolen.


Also the lesser known Y2K Bombing Plot that caused Seattle to cancel their big celebration planned.




The real one is the global banks that pay money to keep people in the alphabit agencies quiet or else.



America only has one party and that is the government party and has been that way since the Federal Reserve where all our money is in the hands of a few.

All these social issues are the Globalist setting up pre planned failures to engineer social unrest so that BIGGER alphabet agencies will form to bring order out of chaos. I doubt even THEY know the full details except possibly the extreme higher ups.
.

11/17/2013 8:52 AM

 
Anonymous Heatblizzard said...

Part 2.

The globalist are deeply into satanic rituals and when a *group* or *Nation* is no longer useful to them they kill it thru an engineered crisis in what we see as the *lower* form.

It even goes deeper then that down the rabbit hole but one thing is certain that NO GROUP controls the worlds economy alone.

A bunch of globalist groups are FIGHTING FOR THAT ONE CONTROL and we the citizens get boxed seats of the political circus that does not have to happen.






9/11 was meant to have a second wave of terror attacks that would've brought us under permanent Martial Law but President Bush surprised everybody by shutting down the stock market exchange for several days allowing the country to pick up it's feet plus lowering taxes for a bit.

We briefly had a severe but very short post 9/11 economic depression but people's attentions were on Bin Laden so they missed the memo.

Bush wanted to lower taxes on all Americans but the Liberals blocked it except for the poor so we only got a partial effect but the next year or so economy did pick up from it as people got confident again when tax returns came starting spring of 02.



During the 9/11 shutdown that means the Globalist Bankers could NOT send or receive transactions to further plot at that time.

Department of Homeland Security busted up the lower fake New World Order terrorist agents but helped power the BIGGER New World order thru the reaction of the people.



The next big events is likely the real estate and oil crash and there are hints of it if you pay attention to both sides of the propaganda machine that is whirling away.



What we see on Tee V is what they want us to see in order to try and *fight* the Global police blindly without any moral cause so they can feel justified in expanding their powers when we go under mob rule.



Sort of a damned if you do and damned if you don't as most people won't protest peacefully under social unrest and those that do will be labeled *Right Wing Nutcases* or *Christian Milita* which troops will force entry int you're homes and drag you out of bed stark naked.

You will be beaten if you have a bible near you're bed and that will only give the troops further reason to tear you're house/dwelling up.





Our next revolution will be more like the Russian Revolution when the Soviet Union broke up leading to a bunch of groups fighting it out either on the internet or in the streets if there is no electricity.


So far *gang wars* have been limited to online chat rooms and blogs but once the power grid goes down for more then 1 day that's it for the rest of our freedoms

11/17/2013 8:58 AM

 

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