Keeping the blogosphere posted on the goings on of the world of submarines since late 2004... and mocking and belittling general foolishness wherever it may be found. Idaho's first and foremost submarine blog. (If you don't like something on this blog, please E-mail me; don't call me at home.)

Thursday, September 27, 2007

LDS Dating: A Study In Complicatedness

I didn't grow up in the Mormon Church -- I married into it. Since my own kids started dating a few years back (dating doesn't start until the kids turn 16), I've found that there seem to be a lot of expectations in our culture that, had they existed for my group of friends when I was growing up, would have probably made dating just too complicated to consider.

I've found that, when asking someone to a dance, it's expected that simply preparing the invitation will require several hours to plan and put together. Here's a web site that gives LDS daters some ideas of what they can do. For example, my oldest son just asked a girl from our Ward to the school's Homecoming Dance. He got a cooler and some flowers, typed up an invitation that started "Now that the ice has been broken...", laminated the paper and rolled it up, filled the cooler with water, and froze it into a block of ice with the paper and flowers inside. The answer came in the form of a 100 piece puzzle with the answer (basically, "Yes", in this case) on the back. Both were delivered using the time-honored "doorbell ditch" method. (As the "doorbell ditch" driver, I had points taken off for putting the mini-van in "Park" while waiting for my son to run back to the car after ringing the doorbell.)

Here's my question for those of you with dating kids or recent dating experience yourself: Is this just an LDS thing, or are other people doing it? If so, how long has it been going on? Had this requirement started back in the early 80s, would it have been the end of human existence on earth?


Anonymous Anonymous said...

While I'm no expert in dating (as I've only dated my wife before getting married), this does sound like an LDS thing. It actually sounds a little more romantic than what most folks actually do.

A friend's daughter recently got asked to the prom via text message and texted back a yes, which my friend indicated is pretty common. If anything, people have gotten less complicated and formal.

9/28/2007 6:33 AM

Blogger saraeanderson said...

I'd probably be a little frightened if a guy asked me out that way. Romantic overtures are nice, but only when they're very personalized. If it's just a bunch of effort put into some random gestures, it makes me feel less like I'm being asked out and more like Generic Girlbot is being asked out.


9/28/2007 12:46 PM

Blogger Aarwenn said...

I work with high schoolers, and believe it or not, this is normal! And not just for LDS--for high schoolers in general, or at least not uncommon. One of my girls recently got asked by a boy to his prom, and he wrote a song for her, taught it to four of his friends, brought his guitar to school and serenaded her at lunch, with all his friends (and most of hers, who knew about the surprise) cheering him on in the background. On another occasion, this same girl and her friends asked a bunch of their guy friends to Tolo by creating a scavenger hunt for them, setting clues all around town and involving most of the parents.

On the other hand, I certainly know a lot of dates for dances that have been made--and broken--by text! I don't know if there's an overarching theme. This trend of song-and-dance invitation routine may be a fad by school or school district, or possibly even MySpace circle. I can say that I dated a lot in high school, less than ten years ago, and we never got complicated. Although email was sporadic back then and texting hadn't yet been invented, we found plenty of ways to be casual--most dates to dances were arranged by third party, by written note, or by conversation, either in person or on the phone.

9/28/2007 12:55 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I hated playing this game when I was in school, I always joked that this would get to a point where LDS people would propose marriage like this. I think it is sort of weak way to ask. Its part of growing up, working up courage to ask someone face to face. The funny thing is it is expected to play this game.

9/24/2008 7:04 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Armageddon Thru To You

If you've been wondering why it seems like the world around us is unraveling, it's because the last days as foretold in the bible are now upon us. Just as it was 2000 years ago, many were unable to discern the signs of Jesus Christ's first coming (Mat 16:3), as will many concerning his second coming, which will occur very soon. Yes many have proclaimed a similar sentiment many times in the past, but their errors have no bearing on today other than to lull you into spiritual apathy, and that too was prophesied to occur in the last days.

If you're not a believer in Jesus Christ because you're an atheist, consider that the underlying impetus for your disbelief is most likely borne of pride and here's why:

When we die, if you as an atheist were right, then there is no upside or downside for anyone regarding the afterlife. We will all simply cease to exist

However if we Christians were right about our belief in the afterlife, then we will be given eternal life and you as an atheist will receive eternal damnation

Given the choices, the position held by an atheist is a fools bet any way you look at it because the atheist has everything to lose and nothing to gain. It is tantamount to accepting a “heads I win, tails you lose” coin toss proposition from someone. And that someone by the way is Satan (see Ephesians 6:12).

The only way to explain the attitude held by an atheist is pride, pure and simple. The intellectually dishonest and/or tortured reasoning used by atheists to try and disprove the existence of God is nothing more than attempts to posture themselves as superior (a symptom of pride). And as anyone who has read their bible knows, this is precisely the character flaw that befell Lucifer, God's formerly most high angel. (Isaiah 14:12-15). Is it any wonder then why the bible is so replete with references to pride as the cause of mankind's downfall?

Pride permeates our lives and burdens us in ways that most of us seldom recognize. Ironically, pride is the one thing that can blind someone to things even the unsighted can see. And sadly pride will blind many with an otherwise good heart, to accepting the offer of eternal salvation that Christ bought and paid for with his life.

In any event, if you're an atheist, I wish you only the best for every day of the rest of your life because for you, this life is as close to heaven as you'll ever get, but for believers in Christ, this life is as close to hell as we'll ever get.

If you're not a believer and follower of Jesus Christ because you are of another faith, please take the time to very carefully compare your faith to Christianity and ask yourself, why is the bible the only religious book with both hundreds of proven prophecies already fulfilled as well as those being fulfilled today? No other religion can claim anything remotely close to this fact. Many Christians who are serious students of bible prophecy are already aware of the role and significance of bible prophecy in foretelling end time events. God gave us prophecy as evidence of his divine holiness to know the begining from the end (Isa 46:10). God also believed prophecy to be so important that to those willing to read the most prophetic book in the bible, the Book of Revelation, he promised a special blessing (see Rev 1:3), and this is the only book in the bible that God gives its reader a special blessing for reading. Something to think about.

Don't risk losing Christ's offer of eternal life by not accepting him as your savior and by thinking that the bible is nothing more than a compilation of unrelated and scattered stories about people who lived 2,000 plus years ago. If you take the time to study (not just read) the bible, you will literally be shocked to learn things you would have never imagined would be revealed in it. Did you know that like parables, God also uses particular months and days in the Jewish calendar, Jewish Feasts and customs, solar and lunar phases, celestial alignments, gematria (Hebrew numerology) early bible events and more as patterns and models to foretell future events?

Consider the following interesting facts about the bible that testify to its God-inspired authorship:

Did you know that in Gen 12:2, God said he would bless Israel?. How else can you explain the grossly disproportionate level of success achieved by Jewish people as a tiny minority in the world, especially after all they have gone through? And how can you explain the success achieved by the tiny nation of Israel, surrounded by enemies outnumbering them 100 to 1 and yet still they remain victorious in all their wars?

Did you know that as evidence to indicate that Israel is the epicenter of the world from God's point of view is the fact that languages to the west of Israel are written and read from left to right as if pointing to Israel, and languages from countries to the east of Israel are written and read from right to left, again as though pointing to Israel. Just a coincidence, you say? I think not.

Did you know that the six days of creation and seventh day of rest in Genesis is a model for the six thousand years of this age (ending very soon), that is to be followed by a 1,000 year millennial reign by Christ (see 2 Peter 3:8)? Adam was born sometime prior to 4000 B.C., therefore our 6000 years are almost up.

Did you kow that the Gospel of Jesus Christ is hidden in the meaning of the Hebrew names listed in the genealogy of the book of Genesis (Research it online)? To deny this was God-inspired, one has to instead believe that a group of Jewish rabbis conspired to hide the Christian Gospel right inside a genealogy of their venerated Torah, which is not a very plausible explanation.

Did you know that solar eclipses, which the bible describes as the sun being black as sackcloth, and lunar eclipses, which the bible refers to as blood red moons, have prophetic meaning? Research it online. God showed Adam (and us) his plan for man's redemption through the use of celestial alignments. (research Mazzaroth online)

Did you know that much of the symbolism in the book of revelation refers to planetary alignments that will occur when certain events occur as prophesied? These planetary alignments also explained the birth of Christ, just search out The Bethlehem Star movie on the Internet.

Did you know that the references in Eze 39:4-17 and Rev 19:17-21 in the battle of Gog/Magog and Armageddon respectively, in which birds of prey will eat the flesh of the dead in battle from two enormous wars is based on fact? The largest bird migration in the world consisting of bilions of birds (34 species of raptors and various carrion birds) from several continents converge and fly over Israel every spring and fall. Coincidence? I think not.

Did you know that Hebrew numerology, also known as Gematria, and the numbers with biblical and prophetic significance are hidden in the Star of David? Google the video called "Seal of Jesus Christ"

Did you know that the seven Churches mentioned at the beginning of the Book of Revelation describe the seven stages the Church will go through?

There are literally hundreds of hidden messages in the bible like these that testify to the fact that the bible was God inspired, and statistically speaking, are all exponentially beyond the likelihood of any coincidence. You can find them yourselves if you only take the time to look into it. Remember Proverbs 25:2 "It is the glory of God to conceal a matter; to search out a matter is the glory of kings".

And finally, if you are Catholic, or one who subscribes to the emergent Church or seeker-friendly Church movement, please compare the doctrine taught, advocated or accepted by your Church, with the actual bible, notwithstanding some new-age version of the bible. And remember that although the bible is often referred to as the living bible, the word "living" was never intended to imply in any way that the bible "evolves" over time to meet, or be consistent with, the standards of man. It's just the opposite.

Well, am I getting through to you? If not, the answer might be explained in the response given by Jesus Christ in his Olivet discourse when he was asked by his disciples why he spoke the way he did (in parables, etc.) in the book of Matthew 13:10-16. What Jesus said could have easily been paraphrased more clearly as "so that the damned won't get it". Why did Christ respond the way he did when asked why he spoke this way? Is there something about pride (the bible says there is) that closes one's heart to seeing or hearing the messages supernaturally hidden in bible parables, models, typologies, and similes, etc.? That should give you something to think about, but don't take too long. Time is now very short.

If it sometimes seems like there are powers at work behind the powers we know in this world, or sinful/evil influences in your life, remember what it says in Ephesians 6:12 "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms." If you study the bible, it will become clearer.

Did you know that God said to those unwilling to love the words of his truth and be saved, he would send them a strong delusion so that they would believe a lie. See 2 Thesalonians 2:10-11. Have you considered what this strong delusion might be? (i.e., evolution, climate change, or ?)

Have you considered the following. With so many self-professed Christians in the world, how is it possible that the bible can state that so few would find the path to eternal life (See Mat 7:14)? The answer: many Christians who practice Christianity practice an apostate version of it, and will ultimately not be county worthy (Luke 21:36) to escape God's wrath.

And by the way, if you are a scoffer, this too was prophesied to occur in the last days. See 2 Peter 3:3.

Thank you and God Bless you! (at)

2/08/2009 10:25 PM

Blogger Unknown said...

When I converted to the church at a young age I was also a bit awed at how much effort and romance my friends put into it. How was I to know that girls should just walk up to a guy and ask him out? It seemed simple and logical to me.

Years later and I realize that it's out of fear. There's so much pressure to "get it right" because in the Mormon culture so much hinges on marriage.

This leads to a large outpouring of effort in the youth and at times almost a complete lack of dating in the late teens and twenties. Many YSAs have given up. But for most it does settle out and asking a girl out is nothing more than a simple “Hey, do you want to go out with me?”

5/19/2009 5:34 AM

Anonymous molly mormon said...

Gol, you know, I think its a mormon thing. And i think its pretty close to the root of why lds dating becomes so difficult for the single sisters later on in life. should girls ask guys out? read more about why i say the answer is always a resounding NO!

3/21/2010 2:55 AM

Anonymous Molly Mormon said...

Gol, you know, I think its a mormon thing. And i think its pretty close to the root of why lds dating becomes so difficult for the single sisters later on in life. should girls ask guys out? read more about why i say the answer is always a resounding NO!

3/21/2010 2:57 AM

Anonymous Chas Hathaway said...

This is not actually even a Mormon thing. It's a high-school thing. It may or may not be unique to Utah high-schools. I think that approach is great for the high-school years, simply because it makes dating too complicated to be worth it.

After high school, these kinds of methods are not only childish, but quite ridiculous. The idea is to find someone to marry, not to show out your ask-out methods to your friends.


4/22/2010 1:47 PM

Anonymous Dating said...

However if we Christians were right about our belief in the afterlife!

4/22/2010 2:14 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Love the discussion here. I'm from California. In the 80's (yep, I'm that old), I asked my prom date by making a puzzle and leaving pieces of it on her chair in each class. At the end of the day, she put it together. It was a poem asking her to prom.
It still happens today in California and among on-lds and lds kids alike.
I think its fine if youth want to do it; and I think it is fine if youth want to simply ask someone face to face. Whatever works for the person.
I don't like the text thing for a date. Man up and ask a girl face to face.

9/23/2012 12:11 PM

Anonymous RJ said...

This is a normal high school thing to do in my opinion. Although I hated it (trying to come up with a creative idea that the last guy didn't do) but I've known different kids across the country that all feel the same way. "You have to ask this way" they say. "It would be awkward not to."

10/17/2012 4:06 PM


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