Keeping the blogosphere posted on the goings on of the world of submarines since late 2004... and mocking and belittling general foolishness wherever it may be found. Idaho's first and foremost submarine blog. (If you don't like something on this blog, please E-mail me; don't call me at home.)
While not minimizing the apparent tragic loss of the crew of the fishing boat struck by the Japanese destroyer JDS Atago (DDG 177), I can't help but wonder if the Japanese government will be as upset with a Japanese surface ship colliding with a Japanese fishing boat as they were with an American submarine surfacing under one back in 2001.
posted by Bubblehead at 10:46 PM
I'm Joel Kennedy -- a married, 50-something year old retired submarine officer and esophageal cancer survivor with three kids who has finally made the transition to civilian life. Politically, I'm a Radical Moderate. (If you don't like something on this blog, please E-mail me. Don't call me at home.)
11 Comments:
CDR Waddle was my XO on San Francisco and have my questions as to what happened. I don't think Japan will be as appologetic as we were made to be.
My biggest question is why was a fishing boat sitting dead in teh water with no radar of fish finder or depth sounder going?
2/20/2008 4:38 AM
Rich-I'll tell you why. I had a buddy
on my last boat who saw the wreckage of that Jap "fishing boat." He said there was way to much "electrical" equipment on that boat. Not to mention they were sitting dead in the water in a known submarine transit area. Hmmm makes you wonder.
I am no conspiracy bluff, but some things just don't add up. I guess we'll have to wait 50 years to find out.
2/20/2008 5:58 AM
Interesting conspiracy theory for an anonymous someone who is "no conspiracy bluff" (sic). Is that "Bluff" with an asian accent perhaps? Maybe Chinese? Huuuhhh? This thing might be huge folks.
I wasn't here.
RM1/SS
2/20/2008 9:07 AM
Besides anyone who has ridden boats out of Pearl "knows". If I have to tell you then you are not qualified Pearl Harbor.
2/20/2008 9:03 PM
GREENEVILLE's look-around before going deep for the emergency surfacing drill did not get enough pole out of the water to see the EHIME MARU at the range she was at (inches of periscope and scant hundreds of yards of range) - the geometry was as bad as it could get. Then she went deep, blew, and came up under the school boat. CO Waddle (a stand-up guy throughout) thought badly enough about his boat's conduct that he went to Japan to apologize.
Submarine Force's initial reaction was braindead, dribbling out information instead of putting all the junk on the bunk. It became national and international news because of this, not aided by the dubious reason for the day-cruise itself. Japan reacted strongly to the needless death of students at the hands of inept US submariners.
2/21/2008 5:59 AM
I mean, the San Francisco was pulling a wheelie when it hit the EHIME MARU....with a group of special influential people on board, some at the helm. Was the Atago jumping out of the Ocean like a love sink whale? Remember the Greenville was day tripping...the civilians were on board to counter the cutback of our submarine fleet.
Did the Atago have any civilian political day trippers on board?
2/21/2008 7:58 AM
Sorry meant Greenville
2/21/2008 8:09 AM
Bubblehead, you're usually right on, but I disagree with where your overall post is leaning. For instance, if the Greeneville has taken out a US ship and killed US schoolkids, the outroar in the US would have been far greater. The country victimized, its culture and the accident timing & circumstances all play a role.
I normally don't hold anything against any accident victim's response, particularly in the case if Greeneville. Rubber Ducky has the right call: "Japan reacted strongly to the needless death of students at the hands of inept US submariners."
2/21/2008 11:37 PM
While I agree that we may have reacted more had the sub hit an american trawler, the main reason for the japanese outrage was because some "gaijin" hit their boat. I don't think they would be as upset (at least that we would see) with the Atago incident.
2/22/2008 2:30 PM
...and if a Japanese sub took out at an American fishing boat?
...c'mon, this game could go on forever
...any foreign country makes an international incident out of international accident - been going on since we humans organized ourselves into discrete groups
2/23/2008 1:24 AM
Background: Waddle was my XO on SFO also; he was in my squadron as CO; at the time I had rather (ahem) close ties to the PACOM PA shop. Also did a stint in Japan in Yoko. I believe I know of what I speak.
Ehime Maru was not DIW, it was a maritime schools boat going from point A to point B steady course and speed relatively far from PH in the standard track a vessel coming out of Aloha Tower would go. Nor was it a bad actor. Greeneville's team failed that day, including the CO, and the big ocean theory was proved wrong.
When a decade or two ago a Japanese sub made a bad go of that one wicked left turn out of the Tokyo Wan separation scheme, it hit and sank a partially-at-fault small craft. This event caused their DoD equivalent to be fired.
That's what happens in the JMSDF; boat screws up and the MoD gets tossed out on his ear. Many in Japan were expecting similar in our own force, not understanding the difference in culture and force size.
Greeneville was also big news because it fit a narrative that Japanese press like to push--think of it a bit like "Guess That Party" in our own papers when political scandal hits in the depth of coverage. This event had dramatic footage (especially with the aerial footage of GVL sitting next to the life rafts, which looks to the layman like abandoning the sailors in a bad way even though it was a safety call, and the families of the killed students). The government was reacting to a pretty inflamed public. Any difference you see between reportage will be somewhat due to this and due to the fact that we won't see much Japanese coverage of the Japanese event over here in America like we did for GVL.
2/28/2008 12:01 AM
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