Keeping the blogosphere posted on the goings on of the world of submarines since late 2004... and mocking and belittling general foolishness wherever it may be found. Idaho's first and foremost submarine blog. (If you don't like something on this blog, please E-mail me; don't call me at home.)

Monday, March 17, 2008

Request For Information (RFI)

I think as I'm getting older, I'm either starting to misremember things, or starting to remember things I never knew. Anyway, I'm hoping some smart person out there can help me out.

Here's the background -- my niece is moving down to San Diego to join her new husband, who's a Sailor on a cruiser there. He joined the Navy about a year ago, and after boot camp and "A" School got transferred to a ship in San Diego last summer. He and my niece got married here in Boise over Christmas when he was home on leave. She's now getting ready to move down to San Diego to be with him.

Here's my question: For some reason, I thought the Navy would pay to move the HHGs of a new wife from his Home of Record or closer to where the service member was stationed. They're saying that they're being told you can only do that in conjunction with a PCS move. Is that right, or is there something that everyone does to get around that restriction? Any help (with OPNAVINST reference if possible) would be greatly appreciated.


Blogger Mr. C. said...


When Carla and I got married, I was in South Carolina and she was in Illinois.

The navy moved her stuff to Florida, but only because I was PCS'ing from SC to Fla. They wouldn't move her things to SC.

Hope that helps.


3/17/2008 1:07 AM

Anonymous Rich said...

I do know that if he did any move to SD then she can not. You are only allowed to move one time per PCS orders.

Hope that helps.


3/17/2008 3:23 AM

Blogger Rubber Ducky said...

Old detailer here: you need orders to attach to the move. No PCS - no move.

3/17/2008 5:15 AM

Anonymous former NMPC-403B said...

If she were in the service, yes, surely...but on the premise of being newly married without PCS orders in hand? Honestly, Joel, I very much doubt that has ever happened. The Navy spends money to move its husbands and wives upon transfer orders...not cross-state-border nuptials. That's just not a Navy-driven event.

In any case, the source document for this will be the MILPERSMAN...not an OPNAV instruction.

This section is one starting point.

Congratulations and best wishes to the newlyweds...may the road rise to meet them.

3/17/2008 5:30 AM

Anonymous sonarman said...

I also recall that you can only move household goods on a PCS, getting married doesn't count. Except if your an O-ganger LCDR or above. Then the rules get bent. Seen it. My Eng on my 1st boat got married, and moved his wife up to Groton. The yeoman fixed the paperwork to make it part of his PCS transfer, even though he had been on the boat for a year.

3/17/2008 6:53 AM

Anonymous chris said...

Don't know if this helps or not...

But in the Army, depending on how long ago the orders were issued it would be possible to have the orders amended to include his wife, and thus have her goods moved.

3/17/2008 7:10 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've been waiting for this opportunity to do a little O gang bashing. So here we go....

I know the reasoning behind the questions posed below so the questions are really just rhetorical:

Why do officers get the rules bent for them? In this case, getting reimbursed for moving expenses that enlisted don't receive.

Why do officers get thicker mattresses?

Why do officers get two man staterooms?

Why do officers have enlisted crew members to make their bedsand fold their clothes?

Why do officers get paid more than enlisted?

Why of officers generally have prettier wives than enlisted?

The answer to all these questions is that officers can resign pretty much at any time. Enlisted are captive audiences and can be sent to presion for refusing to bend to the will of officers that know they've got the enlisted by the nads.

3/17/2008 11:12 AM

Anonymous EW-3 said...

Why do officers get paid more than enlisted?

Why of officers generally have prettier wives than enlisted?

Think question number two was answered by question number one...

3/17/2008 11:16 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rank has it's Privilege
Rank has it"s Responsiblity(sp)

3/17/2008 11:46 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

As stated above, PCS orders are required to move her stuff to San Diego. However, the Navy will do a one-time move of HIS personal belongings from HIS home of record to current duty station.

3/17/2008 2:16 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

You are also allowed a move if you get into base housing.

3/17/2008 4:37 PM

Anonymous submarine iconoclast said...

To the whiny zero-haters: STA-21. Quit yer b****ing and come get some. If you failed to take advantage of the opportunity when you had the chance, that's no one's fault but your own. Few places are more egalitarian than the submarine Navy.

And props to former nmpc-403b for linking the source document - therein lies the truth. My guess is she'll have to wait for the next PCS move to get her stuff, but a good nuke like bubblehead doesn't need my guessing because he uses the reference.

3/17/2008 7:10 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear annonomous O-Gang basher:

Why do officers get the rules bent for them? In this case, getting reimbursed for moving expenses that enlisted don't receive.

I think this has been rendered moot by the previous comments.

Why do officers get thicker mattresses?

Wait... what? Who left me out on this one?!?

Why do officers get two man staterooms?

Hold on a second... I've never seen a two man stateroom before...

Why do officers have enlisted crew members to make their beds and fold their clothes?

There is a place where you get your rack made and your clothes folded?!? Man, I got gypped! What navy was I in? Unless...

Why do officers get paid more than enlisted?

You're a skimmer puke, aren't you!

Why of [sic] officers generally have prettier wives than enlisted?

Damn, it took me a second, but yeah, the closest you've ever been to a submarine is watching a green flare arc across the water while you were on lookout watch.

The answer to all these questions is that officers can resign pretty much at any time.

You're reaaaaly stretching this one (this is from someone who was effectively stop-lossed to finish decom).

Enlisted are captive audiences and can be sent to presion [sic] for refusing to bend to the will of officers that know they've got the enlisted by the nads.

So you didn't sign your own enlistment contract? Wow, you really have a solid case there. As my EDMC once said: "those bilges don't clean themselves." Get scrubbin', because with your attitude you aren't going much further in this world.


3/17/2008 9:17 PM

Blogger One Man said...

The comment about being able to move on the last set of PCS orders is right but only if the member didn't use the move. I found this out in Hawaii when my wife tried to move from NY to here. Of course I found out after we'd already got everything moved.

Fair winds and following seas.

3/18/2008 12:05 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I’m rolling on the floor here. That anonymous poster has to be someone who has never set foot on a boat.
O-gangers got the staterooms, just like the Chiefs get the Goat Locker, but before they got there, they were living out in the population just like everyone else. Just about everyone starts at the bottom and earn their way up the food chain.

That Damn Good Looking Aganger From Iowa

3/18/2008 8:08 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ok, you guys win. I'm the O gang basher. After reading your comments I feel overcome with guilt. I'm so wrong and so sorry....

Actually, I do not feel anything negative toward officers. Had I done things differently I would have liked to have gotten a commission and made a career out of the Navy. Its just that I did the enlisted thing first (so I could use the GI Bill to pay for college). By the time I graduated I was too old to be accepted into OCS.

My questions were really just observations. Things I've always wondered about.

The real reason I wrote the comment disguised a officer basher is to see if anyone cared enough to respond back. Some of you did, with passion.

To respond to you bashers of the O basher, I was indeed a sailor, cold war era, qualified on a Lafayette class FBM, made FTG2(SS), and even qualified on the USS Wahoo SS-565 before getting out. I am proud of what I accomplished in the Navy. And for the most part I have deep admiration and respect for the officers I served with.

I do apologize for what appeared to be O bashing. Having said that, however, my observations do still hold true. Officers do get paid more, do have prettier wives, did, at least when I was on active duty, have two man staterooms, did have thicker matresses, and did have a steward's mate (MS during my time) to make their beds, fold their cloths, and generally look after them.

3/18/2008 12:08 PM

Anonymous Douches said...

Oh no, I ain't done yet.

Why do officers get thicker mattresses?
I was there when we got our mattresses dropped off on the pier. I helped brigade & hump them down. We filled the racks from CO's stateroom to 21-man, with no triage - next off the pile, next on the rack.

Why do officers get two man staterooms?
Do what now?

Why do officers have enlisted crew members to make their bedsand fold their clothes?
Well, with my boat, it was because they were O-5's.

Why do officers get paid more than enlisted?
Probably because, instead of partying through high school and knocking up Mary Jane Fingerbang, they worked their asses off to get into college and, while there, showed they had either enough discipline or the right connections to get the degree.

Why of officers generally have prettier wives than enlisted?
Because they waited.

The answer to all these questions is that officers can resign pretty much at any time. Enlisted are captive audiences and can be sent to presion for refusing to bend to the will of officers that know they've got the enlisted by the nads.
I was on a contract, too. Only I couldn't just leave when mine expired. I had to put my resignation in a year ahead of time; when the XO received it, he said, "You realize this pretty much guarantees you a tour in Iraq, right?" Considering I had a year left on my contract and the Navy knew I wasn't going to be a team player.

3/18/2008 4:06 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Having just PCSed twice, here's the deal. You are allowed in your career one Home of record move where the navy will pick up your stuff from your home of record - now home of record isn't just your physical address (say 162 Maple Ln, Anyotnw, USA) it's anywhere in the area of Anytown USA. So, what he can do is arrange a move of his personal goods from his "home of record" but put down his new wife's home, and as long as he stands by the fact that the stuff being moved is his stuff that he owned or was committed to him before he joined the navy, the navy will move it. it's a bit shady, but then again, what good deals in the navy aren't?

3/18/2008 4:15 PM

Anonymous former NMPC-403B said...

"Integrity is as integrity does."

3/18/2008 4:38 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

When I married my husband, I was living in AL and he was in Charleston. I had to move what I wanted to Charleston (no Navy-paid), but we were allowed to use his home of record move to move the rest of our stuff from AL to NY, in addition to the PCS move from Charleston to NY. This was within the past few years, so I imagine it's still applicable. If he hasn't used his home of record, check on that. They told me they didn't care where the home of record move actually came from, so long as it wasn't further than the listed home of record, and it wasn't.

3/18/2008 9:58 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Integrity isn't jealously guarding one specific rice bowl, it's ensuring that the Navy's (and nation's) needs are met.

Recent CNOs have frequently spoken on the importance of taking care of Navy families. If the regulations allow us to ease the impact of frequent moves, low pay for junior enlisted, and extended absences limiting the member's ability to contribute support at home, then I'm all for doing what we can within those regulations. I seriously doubt that either the CNO or Congress would disagree.

Nickel-and-diming support to Navy families drives up retention-related costs in a big way. Narrow-focused rice bowl management is the scourge of bureaucracy and a significant obstacle to running any organization in a cost-effective manner. It would be nice if we could alter the way we evaluate performance to discourage that mindset - not that I have a good suggestion, but maybe someone else does.

Good luck to your niece with her move and her service to our country in "the toughest job in the Navy."

3/19/2008 6:08 AM

Blogger Rubber Ducky said...

I always thought that RHIP meant Rank Happy Inconsiderate Pricks. But that was when I was a chief. When I got commissioned, I found out it meant ... the same.

Now retired as an O-6, I hold to the view that rank is a tool that demands greater service and expects higher performance. The Navy does not make someone an officer because that person deserves it or promote the person as a reward. These are done to give that individual the tools and authority to take on greater responsibility.

Those who confuse this with earned privilege fit in the RHIP category as I've defined it.

3/19/2008 6:29 AM

Anonymous former NMPC-403B said...

Prior anon: I agree with you 100%. Were we talking sports, I'd go so far as to agree with you 115%.

But, diatribes aside, let's not confuse outright violating the Navy's finance regulations with "taking care of people." The young lady in question does not qualify for a PCS move. Her young man may be able to swing something via a home-of-record move, but a close review may show that choice -- his choice -- to be a double-edged sword in terms of being a one-shot deal. With the right information in hand, the potential of an informed decision presents itself.

So, I stand by my advice. All of it. Certainly the go-to-the-source part, but especially the integrity part.

And I'm sure you have the same in intentions, if not the same level of trust that, in the end, the right thing will be done.

3/19/2008 8:59 AM

Anonymous Douches said...

I can't wait to read more Submarine stories from CO's of our generation. It may go something like this:

There we were, at PD, six-zero feet, off the coast of [SECRET]. The senior ACINT rider had approached me three hours ago. According to the ocean environment data, our position relative to the [SECRET] fleet, and the amount of noise the evolution generates, he recommended that we secure field day today. I consulted my Operational Risk Management matrix and determined that the risk of an ORSE comment on cleanliness was just too great to take. I made a command decision.

"Reveille, Reveille, up all bunks!" went out over the 1MC and, after two minutes of COB rambling, "Commence field day!"

I sat back and sighed, having dodged another career-ending bullet.

3/19/2008 9:54 AM

Blogger Bubblehead said...

Thanks to everyone who commented! I think the reason I thought the Navy might move the spouse is that all the other times I saw it done we were able to plan ahead and work it into a PCS move.

It also turns out my memory, while failing in some areas, remains quite good on some very useless topics. We were watching a show this week where the song "Mello Yello" came on, and I was able to remember that it was originally sung by Donovan -- a memory that's probably 25 years old and hasn't been accessed since. The mind is an amazing thing...

3/20/2008 7:52 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

If im AGR,and authorized a PCS move can i use it to move a few miles further away from my duty station than whats already listed? example: currently live 53 miles away from DS. Bought a house which is 57 miles away. Anyone know if thats reimbursable?

5/28/2009 8:10 PM

Anonymous comprar yate said...

So, I do not really imagine this is likely to have success.

9/28/2011 3:31 AM

Anonymous Gloria said...

Hey, there is a great deal of effective info above!

9/04/2012 2:31 AM


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