Keeping the blogosphere posted on the goings on of the world of submarines since late 2004... and mocking and belittling general foolishness wherever it may be found. Idaho's first and foremost submarine blog. (If you don't like something on this blog, please E-mail me; don't call me at home.)

Wednesday, October 21, 2009

Intrusive Leadership

USS Hartford (SSN 768) was in the news for something good today. They were commended by the Navy for going 1000 days without a DUI. Excerpts:
Prairie Grove, Ark. native Cmdr. Robert Dunn, Hartford's commanding officer, accepted the commendation on behalf of the Los Angeles class attack submarine.
"Although you're giving this to me as the commanding officer, the intrusive peer leadership of the hard-working Sailors makes this possible," said Dunn.
The crew also received a personal message from Submarine Force Commander Vice Adm. John J. Donnelly, calling Hartford "a prime example for the submarine force on how focused effort and deckplate leadership can curb reckless behavior and poor decision making."
"I recognize the fight to prevent DUIs is one of many tasks you undertake which requires constant, intrusive leadership. Hartford's accomplishments in this area are a testament to the crew's professionalism and dedication," wrote Donnelly.
What do you think of the value of "intrusive leadership"? Is it the right philosophy for the unique crew composition of submarines?

48 Comments:

Anonymous l-t said...

I think this is even more significant for Hartford, considering the rough few years they've had and all the shipyard time. We all know that if you spend more time in the shipyard, either scheduled or unintentional, you'll get a significant amount of "help." Good on Hartford.

10/21/2009 9:44 AM

 
Blogger Steve Harkonnen said...

If the Navy has to commend units for not having DUI's then this tells me they have a very long way to go in NADSAP training and a HUGE problem with alcoholism and drunk driving.

This is utterly ridiculous and actually very laughable. What? Is this some kind of goal-orientation here? Get an award because your crew hasn't had a DUI in a while?

Intrusive leadership is actually needed more if we're giving out awards like this. Frankly, intrusive leadership needs a jump start if you ask me.

So where the hell are the chiefs? Oh, maybe they're the ones getting the DUI's too?

Deckplate leadership needs a swift kick in the balls.

10/21/2009 10:37 AM

 
Anonymous EX ANAV/COB said...

Hopefully the good record didn't happen out of the crews sheer terror that if they even farted at the wrong time/place,they would be in the headlines again. Fear is a powerful tool.

10/21/2009 10:51 AM

 
Blogger mommymichael said...

our boat had to get a breathalyzer. seriously.
there have been way too many STUPID (and sometimes on purpose so they can get out of the navy) mistakes by some of our guys. It has to be so frustrating for the command, but on top of that people who ARE hard working (like my husband) are having to do double duty because of it.
They don't have enough people, men are missing the births of their babies when previously this was a boat that sent the guys home specifically for this reason. it was the "family boat" despite how often we go out.
Not so much these days.

When one screws up - many suffer.

10/21/2009 11:17 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

First Warrior Wednesday's and now commendations for not breaking the Law? ...... Don't get it.

10/21/2009 11:30 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Firstly, the were commended, that means they were told good job, way to go, keep up the good work, yadda yadda. A bit different from an award. I'm sure during your time in the Navy you were told good job more than once, maybe even got a yellow sticky of appreciation. Not a NUC, not a NAM for every crewmember, just a good job.

Was it warranted? Sure it was, you catch a whole lot more flys with Sugar. Negativity breeds negativity and the Navy is finally catching on. Do we have a ways to go on lots of things, sure we do. There is always room for improvement in everything we do. That doesn't mean we aren't improving continually though.

Where are the Chiefs? Training their Sailors the best they can. You can't save them all, but still Chiefs try because they do care, I've seen it first hand.

Deckplate leadership starts with Blueshirts (Or whatever we are called now). Ever see that first 24 hour video? That's what it's like. Want to know what a command is really like? Ask a Blueshirt with dolphins, I gurantee they have no problem telling the truth. Even the best Chiefs need help and that starts with their experienced Jr. Enlisted who are out at night with their shipmates, they are the ones who have the ability to truly make a difference.

10/21/2009 11:58 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Most of the comments here have shied away from the actual question he asked about the value of intrusive leadership in the unique context of a submarine crew.

I feel that in an environment with so little physical privacy, emotional privacy becomes all that much more important. If you insert yourself as a leader into your sailors' home lives, you may make friends with a few gregarious souls, but most of them - especially the dolphin wearers - will ultimately resent the intrusion of work into the home life, and morale will suffer.

Do you really think that this yellow sticky of appreciation was worth alienating that significant portion of the crew who is well grounded and smart enough to be decent human beings without being told and may also feel that there should be life away from work?

10/21/2009 12:39 PM

 
Blogger Vigilis said...

Had to look it up. Apparently dates from the Navy's Tailhook debacle.

Here is what Captain J. M. van Tol, U.S. Navy (Retired) had to say about Intrusive Leadership in his USNI Proceedings article entitled 'Worse Than a Crime - A Mistake':

"Intrusive leadership. In my nearly 29 years of service, I did not encounter a more sinister, nay, Stalinist slogan or policy. For a variety of reasons, worthy and unworthy, three-star leadership has tasked unit leaders at various levels to become familiar (in great detail) with what was going on in the lives of their subordinates, supposedly to deal preemptively with personal problems that could lead to suicide, risk-taking, unsafe practices, and disciplinary problems. While that sounds laudable and compassionate in theory, it comes at the cost of incredible intrusions into peoples' private lives. More subtly and insidiously, it undercuts personal responsibility, dignity, and confidence in one's judgment and abilities. It is one of the most pernicious policies ever foisted on the Fleet."

Vigilis wonders how any American citizen could disagree with Capt. van Tol?

10/21/2009 12:45 PM

 
Blogger MT1(SS) WidgetHead said...

Intrusive leadership is a must we just need to make sure we're exercising it in a useful and appropriate manner.

As for DUIs, we have another method which seems to be effective for the most part. For all sailors (regardless of rate) who are new to the Pacific N.W. we show them the Kitsap county jail roster. http://www.kitsapgov.com/sheriff/incustody/incustody.asp

It is explained to us that our names WILL appear on this roster if we drink & drive. That means YOU will be sitting in a holding cell at 3am for a few hours, working on a hangover as you lose your certs, security clearance and in some cases your rate as well. Plus, your POV will be impounded, and you're going to court either before or after you stand mast. Bremerton PD and Kitsap county Sheriffs don't fuck around when it comes to DUIs. It's the same deal with King County on the other side of the sound as well. http://ingress.kingcounty.gov/inmatelookup/browseJailRegister.aspx

YOU WILL go to jail for being stupid!! Talk about being scared straight or scared sober in this case, believe me it works.


Now, it's perfectly acceptable to go out with your shipmates have a good time. We've all done it and we'll all do it again. we just have to continuously look out for each other and be safe. If you know you're going out, then don't drive.

Take a TAXI!!!!!!!!!
Take a TAXI!!!!!!!!!
Take a TAXI!!!!!!!!!

Troll's Taxi (360) 478-8600, is very reliable. All the drivers know where Bangor is and where the shipyard is and all the major apartment complexes are in Bremeton, Silverdale, ETC.

We also hand out Troll's business cards for you to keep in your wallet. If you carry a cellphone or a blackberry, then we suggest you have that number in your phone.

That's as safe and as clear as we can make it. Most of the time this whole process works out for the best.

10/21/2009 12:50 PM

 
Blogger Bill Howell said...

"Intrusive Leadership" - happy to say I missed that one during my career, though if I had bumped into it, I would have filed it under "BS" along with TQL and the rest of its ilk.

What we need is Good Leadership; other modifiers need not apply. A good leader will have his ear to the deckplates and be aware, without being intrusive. A good leader will ensure his folks know what the right thing to do is, that they know how to do it, and that they know the consequences of making bad choices.

If they insist on making bad choices anyway... Well, this blog is called The Stupid Shall Be Punished for a reason.

While it's great that Hartford hasn't had any DUIs, the absence of failure is not the same things as success.

10/21/2009 1:35 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Who decides on being intrusive in practice? Squadron? Who decides on these Commendations? Squadron? or does in come from Norfolk? Just curious. SUBRON4 has had some bad breaks. Is this meant to build morale? Adda boy, good job on not breaking the law.....

10/21/2009 1:44 PM

 
Blogger Chap said...

Is the response to "intrusive leadership" (first heard about it when turning Japan into a bad place to be stationed) "eff you followership"?

10/21/2009 2:07 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Congrats to Hartford.

Cost benefit analysis, is the marginal return on investment for readiness with the prevention of one DUI worth the tremendous effort the leadership is putting on this topic when they should be studying TMA and Sonar? Tough call. To segway into the other topic, how much more time will the command element have to invest when women on board. Department head meetings: 1/3 DUI, 1/3 women, 1/3 everything else we're supposed to be doing. We really don't need to know those pesky NWPs and RPMs.

No offense to Hartford but, I'm not convinced that a lot of the 1000 days might just be luck. I've seen boats go for a long time without 'DUIs' only to get several in a short period of time. Boats really weren't doing anything different except for those that were drinking and driving finally got caught. Just ask any sailor who has a DUI, despite the BS they tell you about how remorseful they are and it was the first time they ever drove drunk, they routinely drove drunk and don't really care.

10/21/2009 3:14 PM

 
Blogger Old Curmudgeon said...

Now how about an atta-boy for a goat locker going 1000 days without a pedophilia arrest?

10/21/2009 3:33 PM

 
Blogger MT1(SS) WidgetHead said...

That's just it. We've got to break up the bullshit routine of driving drunk. It doesn't cost anything to show a 21 year-old sailor what will happen once he is eventually pulled over and pops hot for a DUI.

I admit, I've driven drunk from Seattle onto the ferry and then gotten out and had one more beer before reaching Bremerton and then proceeding to Bangor. Somehow, I've been lucky as all hell that I've never been caught. No, that's nothing to be proud of.

We won't be studying sonar or how FC interfaces with weapons or seeing if everyone knows the number of security locks on a missile tube if we are setting in jail for a bullshit DUI. You're right, it is a tough call. However, we do need to place an emphasis on what can happen if and eventually when you're caught. That is why I harp on my guys to look out for each other.

10/21/2009 3:48 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"It doesn't cost anything to show a 21 year-old sailor what will happen once he is eventually pulled over and pops hot for a DUI."

You harp on this as if it's not a matter of routine for the rest of us. Acknowledging the lack of a 100% success rate of a method is not the same as refusing to use it. 21 year old kids with a lot of disposable income are, as a group, destructive and stupid. What you describe is not intrusive leadership - it's the right thing to do. Intrusive leadership is the crap we've seen in Yokosuka and San Diego with liberty plans and the like. It's knowing where your sailors go to church, who they are dating, and where they are every minute they're away from work - and that's a bunch'a crap.

If taking this common sense approach that you describe with your division makes you special on your boat, then your boat has problems that won't be solved by the other leaders on board. We don't need stupid management and fake leadership techniques - we need more people like you who are willing to apply common sense.

10/21/2009 4:52 PM

 
Blogger FastAttackChief said...

Does anyone know which command has gone the longest days without a DUI? I'm pretty sure there is a website somewhere. This is a great accomplishment and the crew of the USS Hartford should be very proud. Keep up the good work. A little positive reinforcement goes a long way.

10/21/2009 5:17 PM

 
Blogger Mike Mulligan said...

I got a DUI about a year before I got out of the Navy...Dec 1st 1979. Had a first class Fire Control Technician show up at my rack on the next day. He talked to me about drinking and took me around to a lot of AA meetings. He along with the police officer saved my life.

You could be in big trouble with drinking in your twenties....and you can make it your last drink. It is a hard road...but it can be done. I was 27 years old on a fast attack nuclear submarine when I had my last drink, everyone in my family back home was deep into alcoholism, and so far it has been about 30 years since I had my next drink. Believe me, you can bypass a lot of issue with drinking in 30 years if you don’t drink.

By the way, I stopped drinking because I was sick of getting into trouble. I got to tell you I have not led a boring life. I have gotten into unimaginable more trouble while I was sober than when I was ever was dead drunk. Why waste sobriety in not rocking the boat?

We average about 105 times driving drunk, I in many blackouts...before our first time getting caught by the police driving drunk? That was my big sin...all the times I drove around in a blackout.

You could be sitting here just like me...absolutely astonished you could be sober for 30 years? My two children have never seen their mother and father drinking in our house...I found my mother on the kitchen floor dead drunk many times. Think about that?

10/21/2009 6:31 PM

 
Blogger wtfdnucsailor said...

The Groton-New London area has had a spate of drunken driving fatalities, including one caused by a sailor. This has led to a greater enforcement effort by the local police and a strong anti drinking program for all commands in the area. This appears to be one of the positive incentives in this program. Since HARTFORD is in a high stress environment in the shipyard, this is really a praise worthy achievement. Certainly, this award is a better tool than off limits lists and curtailing liberty to prevent sailors from being "sailors". Well Done to HARTFORD crew.

10/21/2009 7:07 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

funny. i worked on lower base, mostly building 87, all day today and never heard one word about it.

congrats to the navy for keeping stats that don't mean shit to the average sailor.

-STS-

10/21/2009 7:51 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

That's it? Only 1000 days? Nice start but call back when you do something really impressive.

10/21/2009 7:55 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mulligan. Your sentence structure is just awful. Proofread, my friend.

10/21/2009 8:07 PM

 
Blogger Mike Mulligan said...

It mimics life...more than your perfect artificial sentence structure.

10/21/2009 8:53 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Alright guys, who's on Mulligan watch? Who's day is it to watch the little wharf rat bastard? You absolutely cannot leave his cage door unsecured under any circumstances. Les you forget, he wreaks entirely too much havoc that is worth putting up with. Lock the little bastard up, now!

10/21/2009 9:11 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Late 2007 in Guam. AS-40 just got to a year without a DWI. AS-40 sailor drives to Naval Station gate after 2000 (you know what the MA's are looking for don't you??) MA checks his ID Card and asks, "how ya doin tonite?" AS-40 sailor tells him, "Not so good, my designated driver didn't show up." MA says, "Pull over to the right, etc, etc, etc." and it was all down hill from there. True story!! Whats the name of this blog???

Re: Intrusive leadership, I'm 100% with Capt Van Tol. Submarine Navy doesn't hav a clue what the "real intrusive leadership" as practiced in 7th fleet looks like. I saw a number of examples while sailing on MSC ships in WesPac over the last four years.

This stuff got started out there because the big wheels lived in fear of having a "liberty incident" and embarrasing the Navy. I have my own ideas on why this got started and who pushed the idea during the Bush administration, and need not go into that here.

The fact is that it's taken on a life of it's own. When some sailor screws-up ashore no matter how insignificant and a report gets back to the command, the report also goes to the Admirals who restrict the entire command and require the unit skipper to fill out a long report of who and what failed and how they're going to ensure it doesn't happen again. Black marks go on fitness reports, going ashore behavor gets more and more micromangement.

Example: Feb 2008 Sasebo. I was off ship on leave on a Monday taking care of personal business. Saw a young bluejacket by fleet landing who looked like he was in distress. Asked him what was wrong. He told me he was on the Essex. He told me a young sailor had got into some trouble in Fukuoka over the weekend, apparently nothing serious as JN Police called Sasebo to come get him, which they did. Monday morning bright and early the one star Amphib Group Commander restricts all afloat E-3's and below to the base indefinately. This kid is married and lives on the economy and can't leave the base.

Christmas 2007, Yokosuka, Kitty Hawk in home port. everyone going ashore had to produce a written "liberty Plan". Where going, what doing, planning to consume alcoholic beverage. If you did, had to call you chief, etc, etc. If married living in Navy housing on base you still had to do this.

Van Tol is correct the Navy has lost the bubble on this stuff and young sailors in 7th fleet hate being treated this way. It's way worse than my early days in the "chicken reg" Navy in the late 50's

Check out his article.

My two cents and keep a zero bubble.........

DBFTMC(SS)USNRET

10/21/2009 9:28 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Intrusive leadership is another one of those over used buzzwords. While I will admit that there are limited situations where it may be applicable, in the wrong hands it can over used and down right dangerous. Like so many other tools and techinques the key is to recognize if it applies.

10/21/2009 9:45 PM

 
Anonymous QMC(SW)(ret) said...

I was in Sasebo and Atsugi from 1990-2004 and loved it. But I escaped Japan just in time. You could see this stupid shit coming down the tracks like a runaway freight train. The smallest, lamest liberty "incident" had everyone pissing their pants. I thought it was bad at the time but it was nothing compared to what to what it is now.

10/21/2009 9:45 PM

 
Blogger MT1(SS) WidgetHead said...

Chief, that's exactly the reason I have no intention of asking to go to Yokohama in the next three years. When i talk to my detailer, I have no intention of asking to go to Japan. I've heard too many screwy stories about Sasebo and Yokosuka.

You can send me back to KB or Groton. Pearl doesn't sound too bad either. I'll happily go. But no fucking way, am I going to Japan. It's just not worth it. The political climate and other meaningless BS is just not worth dealing with.

10/21/2009 9:54 PM

 
Blogger MM1/SS said...

I think it is quite an accomplishment that the Hartford made it 1,000 days.

They have some serious ass covering going on.

Sailors drink...especially those in high stress environments...especially those on boats like the Hartford. you know, "That Boat".


They seem to have figured out some method of keeping things hidden. Wish they'd share.



oh well. they'll have a screw-up. it only takes 1 idiot. no matter how intrusive you are, or how much you micromanage...it just takes 1 idiot.

In the last year I've seen a FTC (select) and a frocked MM1 with outstanding careers get derailed by 5 minutes of stupidity.


These were EP sailors with perfect records. Alcohol causes you to do things. No matter what plan you have in place, or what your intentions are.


Intrusive Leadership pisses me off. People will be people. The upper COC forcibly sticking their noses where it doesn't belong highly angers me. I do believe it negativly affects crew morale


You can lead a horse to water...but it will only drink if it wants to.

10/22/2009 2:45 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A couple of points. First, as anon, 10-21, 1158 indicated this is an acknowledgement of continuing progress. The exact same method most US industries use concerning their safety record. You can go the main gate of any industrial plant and you will see the sign, “250 days without a reportable”. Strictly a BZ for continuing to be vigilant.

Has anyone really read what Dunn said? “intrusive peer leadership” To me it reads “friendship” and “camaraderie” among the crew. It is telling me that even on liberty, this crew sticks together. Although Adm Donnely took it to the degree of ‘intrusive” leadership” from a command perspective, I see it as the CO said it.

Lastly, I really hate to say this and please forgive me, but mulligan does have a point. Although I think he should be locked away, he brings up the point of those that really do have a problem with alcohol. Approximately 10% of the population possess the alcoholic gene. There is always the potential of having an alcoholic, even within most divisions. Identifying these people can be the problem. Even with intrusive leadership at a command level, the true alcoholic will get around it. Eventually they will expose themselves, but early on they are very coniving. Just something to ponder.

CWO3 (ret)

10/22/2009 7:19 AM

 
Blogger 630-738 said...

First off, congratulations to the HARTFORD crew for attaining 1000 days without a DUI. Avoiding that pitfall for nearly 3 years is a great accomplishment regardless of your feelings toward "Intrusive Leadership."

Now, on to my feelings toward the phrase. I never really heard much about it until I was a Leading Crew Chief at MTS-635. While I was there, NPTU experienced a rash of suicides, and one in particular was related to what was happening at the student's home. There were a lot of things happening there (parties, drug activity, infidelity, etc.. etc..) wearing on the young man, until he got in his car, drove to Alabama and ate a bullet. At that point, the command decided that intrusive leadership was necessary to protect the students from themselves. We the staff were directed to inspect each of our student's homes if they lived on base, and to request a visit with the students who lived in the community. They of course could refuse and many did, but some did not. Things I saw in some homes were beyond belief. Some folks just live in filth, and I'll leave it at that.

Overall, nothing was really accomplished, other than inconveniencing staff instructors and students alike. There will always be a small percentage of folks who make poor decisions, and no amount of sticking your nose in their affairs is going to change that. If the Navy and the Submarine Force is TRULY interested in curbing DUI's and alcohol related incidents, stop glamorizing abuse. All one has to do is attend a Submarine Birthday Ball, or command Christmas Party, etc. to know we're not REALLY serious until someone ends up in trouble or hurt. Then, we suddenly care.

10/22/2009 1:19 PM

 
Blogger Steve Harkonnen said...

I'll back Mulligan's statement as well because it takes courage to post something like that in a forum like this.

As for intrusive leadership I checked it out too but the problem is, those sailors who intrude into other sailors' private lives at home eventually ends up in the messdecks.

Biggest problem is, those practicing intrusive leadership just don't know how to shut up and remember privacy.

10/22/2009 1:22 PM

 
Anonymous steve osc ret said...

I'm with Van Tol.

10/22/2009 2:24 PM

 
Blogger Srvd_SSN_CO said...

1. BZ to Hartford. That is simply an amazing stat. If you think you get that by CYA, you forget the local cops don't give a crap, and once it is in the system there is no way to cover it. Shut up and stop being jealous.

2. GOOD leadership is by definition intrusive. But if there is some kind of wacky idea that if you cannot make it to 1000 you are a bad leader, that's crap to. I seriously doubt there are any flags today that sport that feather in their caps. It's like saying 'with good leadership we can all be above average.'

10/22/2009 4:30 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The interesting thing is that you would expect the COB to have a large role in this - and their current COB (Vatter) is top-notch. But he's only been there for about 180 of the 1000 days - the ones before that were under the alcoholic they fired after the collision. How does that work? Don't drink or you'll be as big of an idiot as I am?

10/22/2009 4:44 PM

 
Anonymous ExMSP Nav ET said...

As an E-5 submariner, I have seen differing levels of intrusive leadership. Fortunatley, at the various commands I have been stationed at in Groton, Norfolk, and now Bangor, the leadership uses various degrees of intrusiveness. They seldom ask questions about ones private life unless someone gives them a reason to be concerned. Then the questions never stop. From everyone. Privacy is one reason why many sailors do no go to their commands with problems. Probably the number one reason. A submarine is a VERY small town, and anyone who has ever been on a sub or in a small community knows just how fast information can travel, even information that is supposedly private. Sadly, the more a command tries to keep things quiet, the more attention they draw to it and within about 4 hours after someone comes forward with an issue, the whole damned boat knows every detail. I have at various times had to write "travel plans" and "leave plans" for my commands. I was annoyed by this, but understood the resoning. However everyone knows the only reaosn to file such things is not to help the command be aware, but to use as a tool to punish a screw-up. Intrusive leadership is ineffective. Deckplate leadership is.

10/22/2009 8:37 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't know what intrusive leadership means and I really don't care. Here is the way I did things:

As a Chief, I would take the time to talk to my guys and get a feeling of what was going on. Maybe we would go to lunch together and talk about things or have a life discussion while doing charts. Listening is the key.

In Japan, at CSG-7, I casually asked one of my QM's what his big plans for a long weekend were. He said he and his family were going to hang out at home. He said his paycheck was smaller than normal this time. WTF over? I went to PSD and talked to the Chief there and he had a check cut for him the next day. Why didn't he tell me to start? He didn't think it was to big a deal and didn't want to bother anyone. All this from a casual lunch and it only took a little time on my part to fix a problem.

I don't care that you are going to drink tonight. I do care that you don't drive and have my number if you need a ride. I do care that you get home alive and come to work the next morning.

Casual questions, keep it in the "family", i.e. division or department, and be there when they need you. Let them know if they come to you, that you will be fair. But also let them know your expectations...if you get a DUI, I will be the first to recommend your discharge.

That's the way I operated during my 24 year career with my QM's, ET's, CT'S and OS's on both shore and sea. Only had 1 guy get a DUI, a few CO's masts and some domestic issues. When a problem did arise, deal with it head-on, swiftly and openly.

Call it what you want, but I call it being the Chief.

p.s. Sometimes this includes the officers, especially if you have a junior JO. It takes a little more tack but can be done. You have to remember, these guys have college "brains" but often lack real life survival skills.

Jim C.
Retired ANAV

10/22/2009 9:47 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Regarding Anon of 4:44 on 22 Oct:

Is the COB Tom Vatter? Torpedoman?

Also, if we're going to sling the "alcoholic" label around, let's make clear who we're talking about. Did you mean the previous COB? I'm sure you didn't mean the former CO.

10/23/2009 2:29 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

yes, Tom Vatter. And former COB, not former CO.

10/23/2009 5:26 AM

 
Anonymous servedanav said...

"Instrusive Leadership" is an ugly title given to a leadership philosophy which is miguided.

The model we should be using is "Servant Leadership". We serve our country, our family, our Navy, our command, the local community and the sailors and officers who we've been entrusted to develop into great submarine leaders.

Whoever dreamed up the idea of using the phrase Instrusive Leadership, should read Greenleaf, Senge, Covey, Shein and others to get schooled in the best practices of building great cultures, which in turn help foster a climate of building great leaders.

Myth number one underlying the Instrusive Leadership model is you can motivate another person to act a certain way. The truth is motivation comes from within. You can create the environment where self-motivation is more likely to occur, but that's it. Motivation is often confused with "compliance". That's why it fails when the Chief isn't around.

Servant Leadership takes time, but is more in keeping with the principles of submarine Teamwork and building esprit-de-corp.

10/24/2009 9:22 AM

 
Blogger SJV said...

Kudos on bringing up Servant Leadership here. I'd rather you leave Covey off, though. He's more about marketing than service.

Those others of you, take a look at the Greenleaf Institute and Servant Leadership.

10/25/2009 6:49 AM

 
Anonymous Retired SSN CPO said...

Forget the adjectives about leadership. The HARTFORD leadership and sailors are obviously on target here.

As for "That Boat" - you has beens and arm chair quarterbacks stay where you are - off HARTFORD. They are the best crew I've ever worked with at EB!

SSN CPO RET

10/26/2009 2:36 PM

 
Blogger Srvd_SSN_CO said...

I am happy to give credit for the 1000 days, but that is in no way indicative of the ship's overall performance. After all, as the saying goes, 'the average ship doesn't have a collision.' So those 'awesome' Sailors racking up 1000 days were the same guys that schwacked the Amphib.

I never got a letter for great DUI avoidance, but I didn't get fired for not doing my job.

Give credit where credit is due, but don't go parlaying into something it is not.

10/27/2009 3:46 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As an E-6 LPO with no Chief, I was told by the COB to routinely inspect the base-provided barracks rooms of my guys. I never imagined being so intrusive into their lives.

(Yes, I can understand that the rooms should be inspected occasionally. I just don't think that it should be by the boss (or command) of any of the occupants, except when discipline is a known problem.)

10/27/2009 7:26 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Srvd SSN co:

enjoyed your first post, but re: your second...

Glad to see that you survived your tour and not getting fired!

BTW, how do you measure "The ship's overall performance" now that a large portion of the crew has transferred (or was fired) that was directly responsible for the collision.

BZ to HARTFORD for celebrating each recent win, and 1000 days ain't no small one.

10/27/2009 8:12 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What goes unsaid in all of this is the CPOs involvement in 'adjudicating' some of the DUI issues off-line with civilian police officials. This artificially but successfully got their number to zero over those 1000 days.

10/29/2009 8:09 AM

 
Anonymous MADD Member said...

Another jealous wanna be...

The Navy can't 'adjudicate' civilian DUI offenses!

That's craziness! Local police depts get rated for keeping (i.e. arresting) drunk drivers.

10/29/2009 2:58 PM

 
Anonymous Subdude83 said...

Anon 0809:

If any "Actions" you allege in your post are true, how about the details? ie names, dates, and places!!! Otherwise, shut up.

Chiefs taking care of their sailors is the original defintion of "Intrusive Leadership" before
7th fleet ruined Westpac liberty for the entire Navy.

10/29/2009 5:28 PM

 

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