Keeping the blogosphere posted on the goings on of the world of submarines since late 2004... and mocking and belittling general foolishness wherever it may be found. Idaho's first and foremost submarine blog. (If you don't like something on this blog, please E-mail me; don't call me at home.)
Word on the street is that at least some bases in the COMSUBPAC sphere of influence are looking at banning personally-owned electronic devices from the boats, and that possibly COMSUBPACINST 2075.1 is the instruction that establishes this ban. Any truth to this, or just waterfront rumors running amok?
posted by Bubblehead at 10:06 PM
I'm Joel Kennedy -- a married, 50-something year old retired submarine officer and esophageal cancer survivor with three kids who has finally made the transition to civilian life. Politically, I'm a Radical Moderate. (If you don't like something on this blog, please E-mail me. Don't call me at home.)
125 Comments:
Gee, that should be popular underway. "Oh honey, I'd love to call you from liberty port but I am not allowed to have my cell phone, ipod, kindle, laptop, xbox, DVD player, PSP, or any of the other electronic thingies everybody brings aboard"
I guess we can go back to jerking off to the same magazines, sodomizing each other with grease guns, and smoking lots of cigarettes (errr, oh wait). Should be fun, and a real retention driver!
10/24/2011 10:18 PM
I'm wondering if this is an opsec issue relating to the possible trace-ability of such devices.
10/24/2011 10:24 PM
I refuse to believe they'd be so stupid.
This would end volunteers for the sub force.
10/24/2011 10:31 PM
The threat has been sent out.
Took'em awhile to muster up the ART to find something that would finish off manning on the boats. Anybody
got some honeygram forms?
IE.....AntiRetentionTeam
10/24/2011 10:32 PM
I know that USS HAWAII is a "test boat" for this... We know how these "tests" and surveys go, though. They'll call it a success, no matter what.
10/24/2011 10:41 PM
I am 100% positive the devices are not traceable underwater, though I don't necessarily expect flag officers to be that intelligent. I suppose they could find out that you went to a liberty port once you are already there... but really? That is not exactly super-secret, or difficult to figure out if you have satellites or care to find out via humint by just sending some dude to live at our most popular liberty ports.
99.99999% certain this decision is made because 1) scares of stealing information from computers and 2) many of these devices have cameras, GBs, and WIFIS.
10/24/2011 10:43 PM
One of these days we're going to have to grow up and learn to work with technology, but when it takes over ten years to admit that such gaps exist and stand up an ITS rating, well... These "head-in-the-sand" policies and attempts at ban-everything, quick-fix solutions are unsustainable, avoid the real issues and damage the credibility of being a "modern" force, in terms of technology AND leadership. We need creative, educated and inherently-secure solutions, not work-arounds and cop-outs.
10/24/2011 11:04 PM
Stupid as always. This only hurts the honest people. If someone wants to bring a cell phone or camera and use it for evil they will. I'm glad I am done with the idiocy of this crap. Some dumb idiot is trying to make a name for himself again. I can't wait until they start the brain washing to remove any classified information that you aquired while onboard.
10/24/2011 11:09 PM
I'll bet that all the old free phone banks next to the per will be replaced asap to make the sailors life better. Yeah right.
10/24/2011 11:11 PM
Too much jerking?
Seriously, though, this strikes me as remarkably dumb. Heck, SWOs are filming music videos.
10/24/2011 11:34 PM
They can't (CANT!) be thinking of EMCON violations while underwater. Are they sweating photos of lagging covered pipes, panel displays, and the PoD? Tests? FOMMs? RPMs?
Dirty pictures? Movies? Music? Big 10 volleyball games?
Big Daddy/ Uncle Sam will allow you to check your phone out during a port visit, just in case? or no?
10/24/2011 11:37 PM
Another policy no doubt driven by the kind folks at the ITE phone banks in Guam and Yoko. (sarcasm intended)
Morons.
10/24/2011 11:41 PM
There was a recent meeting of higher-ups where it was demonstrated that cell phone functions could be remotely activated without the user's knowledge, which scared the pee out of a few people, as it should. Meetings like that don't happen without somebody being ordered to do something, so here we are. The thinking is that there are shore facilities where these things aren't allowed, and if submarines are a similar security environment, then such things shouldn't be allowed there, either. And yes, that kind of unsympathetic, reactionary thinking has always provided the less-creative with justification for neglecting the real challenges.
10/24/2011 11:57 PM
^^^^^
Why do I feel the urge to shower after just reading this?
10/25/2011 12:08 AM
Look, after working in a SCIF for the last 3 years, I haven't had my phone with me when at my desk. I didn't mind it because it was in safe outside my door.
That being said, the issue isn't that it can be activated via remote, but that it has the ability to record data, I.E. video, sound & data. With the unclass network and communications devices being wireless on board, this is kind of concern is needed. This is a way of keeping Honest People Honest... Besides, this is a test to see if it is a viable concern or if it puts any burden on the crew.
It only forces me to go back to using the Original Palm Pilot (little wheel book) for my dates, tasks & phone numbers.
10/25/2011 12:33 AM
The "word on the street" is only half true. you will be allowed to bring them onboard. wifi must be disabled. phones must be off. IPOD/IPAD/LAPTOP/ETC can all be onboard but only in berthing and crews mess. sorry, cant have it in the torpedo room. You cannot store your device in your work spaces like control, engineroom, radio, ships office. They are forbidden in the wardroom when classified stuff is being done or when on mission. CO/XO staterooms are off limits to (sucks to be them). YN's are going to be disappointed. There is also a push to seperate the LAN Drops going to the Ships Office printer (they will have to have two printers! LOL). So yes, they are cracking down and specifying where you can have your stuff, and no, they (we) are not making it so you cant have anything to keep you SANE!
10/25/2011 12:53 AM
Completely unenforceable.
10/25/2011 1:07 AM
Look it takes about 12 seconds to hack a WEP based password, 30 seconds to copy a script to their computer, and then just waiting for the computer to record and report back. Most people don't realize that you can record off of microphone and headset jacks even if their is nothing plugged in. Most people don't encrypt their hard drives. They should fix the biggest problem - the operational security mindset of the crew and be up front about why it's happening and provide support for actually securing personal devices instead.
10/25/2011 1:11 AM
Good article but its unenforceable.
10/25/2011 2:49 AM
The way it was explained to us is a submarine underway. Not movement underway, but the boat as a whole is considered a secret medium. I can go anywhere with secret material. I can bring RPMs forward. Things sitting out in the open are not considered a violation, but now we all have cameras. and hence the potential for a major violation. We got threatened with the ban after someone tried to access xbox live using siprnet. Yeah, I don't see why anyone would want to continue on a sub with rules like this. I mean, 3 section inport and underway. Wow where do i sign up for more?
10/25/2011 4:21 AM
Great! I 've been waiting for an opportunity like this. I have a vintage Sony Walkman cassette player and about 120 casettes of '80s hair bands and what not, plus a "portable CD player" with "anti vibration technology" and about 300 CDs of late '80s, 90s and early '00 music. I'm willing to rent them for upcoming underways for a premium.
10/25/2011 5:15 AM
Obviously submariners have adapted to the smoking ban and the leadership needs to find another way to stick it to them.
10/25/2011 6:48 AM
Let’s see... we had, Melanophobia & got over it, Venustraphobia & got over it, Homophobia & got over it. Now we’re floundering over Technophobia?
I always thought that the Sub Brethren were the tech leaders in the Navy. I can't believe that someone can't figure this one out.
10/25/2011 7:43 AM
Homophobia
It's not that anyone is afraid of fags, we just don't like 'em.
10/25/2011 8:08 AM
I work in one of those shore-based facilities where this is already the case. It was widely ignored for a while and has recently been enforced big-time. While things are tough all around, I can tell you that morale has never been lower (people who have been here for multiple decades longer than I also agree)... and this PDA ban has not helped matters at all. The younger employees are mostly just waiting for the job market to improve and then they are "SO out of here".
So sure, the authorities can tighten security, but if there is nobody to follow the officer's orders, what good is the submarine?
Recommend you don't go there, sir.
10/25/2011 8:19 AM
Not sure how they can test this on HAWAII... it is not possible to take logs on a VIR class sub without a Palm Tungsten E in your hand...
10/25/2011 8:51 AM
This will have a significant negative impact on morale. This generation is completely accustomed to having portable music, games and information.
If the concern is the ship's LAN - Enforce the requirement not to connect any PEDs to the LAN. A couple of Captain's Masts will take care of that.
If the concern is wi-fi locatability (rolls eyes) then prohibit them from topside while underway.
If the concern is stealing info/taking photos, require a hard reset of all equipment upon RTP. Most everyon syncs their info before they leave anyhow. Or just trust our Sailors and hammer those that don't follow the rules.
This only hurts the honest Sailors and will make recruiting the best and brightest very hard. Just wait until you tell the Mids not to bring their iPods.
10/25/2011 9:47 AM
I'm not a tin foil hatter (writing this on my iPhone), but I know software exists that can be installed on a phone which can turn the audio-video of the device, record, and wait until the phone is in a wireless environment and transmit that data anywhere.
I've seen the videos, and that IS a concern.
10/25/2011 10:52 AM
@8:51
Obviously those don't count as "personal" electronic devices.
10/25/2011 11:57 AM
@9:47
"Or just trust our Sailors..."
You mean like putting a SN on the helm of a mult-billion dollar submarine but not to turn off a cell phone?
Somebody upstream isn't paying attention and worrying about being #21 this year
10/25/2011 12:26 PM
Considering this is being tested on USS Hawaii it may also raise issues of wireless devices causing interfearence with the 'dive by wire' systems (the same restrictions on aircraft).
On the security side, this can be traced back to young Mr Manning and his Wiki-leaks episode. The knee-jerk reaction is swinging the pendulum to the side of maximum security. Over time that pendulum will swing back to the center.
10/25/2011 12:31 PM
Hmmm I can't help but think, if I could only have my iPod in my rack or Crew's Mess then I can't have it with me in the bilges of the Engine Room where only the dammed travel? Take away music during field day?? I do think that's a mutiny-able offense.
10/25/2011 1:18 PM
So why not get a "Submarine Security/ Encryption App" that checks for evil spymaster surreptitious uploads/downloads and disables the features that make the force security officer lose sleep, while leaving the games, movies, books, family pictures, hot girlfriend phone number/liberty port cross reference and whatever alone?
Just asking.
10/25/2011 1:23 PM
I do think that's a mutiny-able offense.
Back in the day, we got a new Eng (who was the best Eng I ever had, btw) who had a hard-on for tunes in the engineering spaces so he outlawed it. Someone brought it up at quarters one morning when the Capt (who was a pretty good guy) asked if anyone had anything to say. EM2 Nameless raised his hand and said "How come no more music in the eng spaces during field day?". CO turned to Eng. Eng turned red. Music reinstated, just don't let the Eng sneak up behind you without you hearing him b/c your music was too loud. Good times.
10/25/2011 1:24 PM
^^^^^^
It's more like a cock swinging toward our assholes. Yeah, eventually it will "swing away/go limp," but the damage has already been done.
10/25/2011 1:27 PM
If anon @9:47 is working where I think he's working, he's working the same place I am, and for all you 'old schoolers' with your Sony Walkmen, here *all* the old school PED (including radios, CD & casette players) had to be removed.
10/25/2011 1:46 PM
{Considering this is being tested on USS Hawaii it may also raise issues of wireless devices causing interfearence with the 'dive by wire' systems (the same restrictions on aircraft).}
I hope you're not an electrical engineer. The number of PEDs that can cause significant interference is vanishingly small. These are not AMPS bag phones.
There is little to no real science behind the FAA ban - lifting it is technically feasible, but is not being done due to huge public support for the ban. The last time there was an open comments period on the ban, there were thousands of comments in favor of a continued ban. Picture riding in cattle class, middle seat on your favorite flying bus with a grossly obese dude screaming on the phone.
10/25/2011 1:54 PM
I was on 2 subs in the late 80s early 90s we never had music on in the engineroom, you had to have a camera pass to have a camera onboard, hopefullly some common sense will prevail lol
10/25/2011 3:30 PM
If we are so worried about Sailors compromising security requirements, then why do we give them clearances in the first place. I don't understand how on one hand I can be trusted with the information but on the other am not trusted to listen to an iPod while cleaning a bilge. John Walker did not need a cell phone to sell secrets to our adversaries. He found a way because he was a criminal. This will not stop a criminal but it will detour from the quality of life for the majority of the Navy's top Sailors who serve in the Submarine Force. We really need to get a handle on the stupidity and focus on the main thing again. I am tired of seeing quality personnel leave our organization due to the BS they have to put up with.
10/25/2011 4:38 PM
@ anon 1:54,
I agree there is no supportable evidence for the ongoing FAA ban, but one of the main arguments is the ability to use these devices in nefarious ways.
10/25/2011 7:51 PM
"If we are so worried about Sailors compromising security requirements, then why do we give them clearances in the first place. I don't understand how on one hand I can be trusted with the information but on the other am not trusted to listen to an iPod while cleaning a bilge. John Walker did not need a cell phone to sell secrets to our adversaries. He found a way because he was a criminal. This will not stop a criminal but it will detour from the quality of life for the majority of the Navy's top Sailors who serve in the Submarine Force. We really need to get a handle on the stupidity and focus on the main thing again. I am tired of seeing quality personnel leave our organization due to the BS they have to put up with."
Amen.
Unfortunately the Nuclear Navy may get a hold this so stand-by for the insanity to begin.
As to your comment quality people leaving. It is simple people get tired of being treated poorly or being unappreciated. It's amazing how we preach standards on boats but continue to give and or request waivers for Sailors with there 3 or 4 DUI.
10/25/2011 8:34 PM
15 years ago I found that Marines would not let me enter a US Embassy without leaving my cell phone behind and disconnecting it from the battery.
Worked for many many years in an OPEN SECRET environment although I really objected to some things posted on the walls since our cleaning staff, while escorted at all times did not have any sort of clearance at all.
Working skifs was fun. The watchdogs told us that if we took a cell phone past the point a screamer alarm would sound. Ha. When the admiral's wife called on his cell phone waltzed beyond that point while we were in an SVTC, it clearly made it around any alleged 'screamer' circuits at Navy Special Warfare Group ONE's mission support center.
There is some legitimate TS stuff but all the rest is BS. The whole nuclear propulsion thing strikes a chord. We don't want the Russians or Chinese to find out how to do it? I gave up on nukes long ago as one could tell from the mnemonic that remains even today, HEN CV etc.
10/25/2011 10:18 PM
The sub force needs to start retiring admirals and captains until programs like this stop springing from the ether. (or the nether regions of staff officers)
10/25/2011 10:41 PM
OKay...
What is -
'the mnemonic that remains even today, HEN CV etc.'
10/26/2011 2:26 AM
It is our own government that turned every cellphone into an eavesdropping device that tracks its owner, then every manufacturer outsourced their production to China. And maybe you can also explain why every new Kindle, a book reader, has a microphone?
10/26/2011 5:52 AM
Wow! That would put a damper on us calling home when we do a BSP now. I guess we need to take down the cell antenna we concealed within the GPS antenna now.
10/26/2011 6:45 AM
It is a nice post.thank you.
10/26/2011 7:55 AM
I'm waiting on the "when did we start allowing music in the engine room" question. You know it is coming with an ample amount of perfectly placed astonishment to preclude senior leadership from knowing that their support staff was guilty of the same offense/s.
10/26/2011 10:49 AM
Curt @2:26
I'm not sure about CV but 'HEN' is the NATO references for the first nuclear powered Soviet submarines - Hotel class SSBN (most famous as K-19 Widowmaker) Echo class SSGN and November class SSN). They were years (or decades) behind the 598 and 637 classes that they were contemporaries with.
Dean
10/26/2011 11:48 AM
739 is the test platform in Bangor.
This ban isn't limited to PEDs, but all electronics carried onto a boat inport, even government-issued devices. And yes, the boat had to offload all of their MWR game boys/xbox/playstations/etc. They'll get them back to take on patrol.
For the IMF, this pain extended to the laptops used by the IMF for IETMs. Our shops also had to have their electronic-test equipment escorted onto the boat same way a visitor gets escorted. INSANE! Thank you wiki leaks and the unbelievable response by the USN leadership. You got it wrong, again.
10/26/2011 12:38 PM
Charlie Victor
10/26/2011 12:54 PM
The PED ban is not an uniquely submarine thing. The ban has applied in just about every civilian courtroom for decades. Government or civilian issued PEDs are generally banned by most courts regardless of one's "security clearance" (unless you actually work for court security). That said, something else a little more sinister may also be involved.
10/26/2011 2:21 PM
Xoph said:
This is a concern for Civlant as well. I work for a fortune 500 and we have intellectual property around and this has been one of the concerns expressed. However, when the guys in the corner office are getting iPads to show their status and crackberries are a dime a dozen, no one is thinking about banning the things. We're not sure how to deal with it.
If anything we are working on how to get more devices out into the field and seeing what productivity gains can be had.
As a suggestion, take some smart sailors who love their toys, give them an IT guy and some time to work it out. You'll get a lot of buyin by using this method.
10/26/2011 2:40 PM
@ "asses and elbows"
"Damage done"?? What damage? There are always unpopular decisions and there are always sailors bitching about same.
You'll find one in one-hundred who complain that will actually let something like this impact whether or not they stay in. Just a few short years ago there was NO contact other than family grams and we all survived just fine.
Such is the life of sailor. They used to say back in Nelson's day, "Growl you may but go you must". I told my sailors and still tell my kids, "whine you may but go you must".
Brad
10/26/2011 3:39 PM
This is ricockulous!! We are being tracked underway becuase some vendor loses control of security, ship gets new tempalt or install, and then all of a sudden the boat is sending out ping showing location. We are definitely moving into a new age of cyberwarfare and the bad guys are only getting smarter and more creactive. Stay tuned for the next episode of NCIS to find out more.
Can't believe all these dumb-ass nubs and deckplate leaders are going to have to put down their Nintendo DS and actually read a SSM or Technical Manual to learn their job. God forbid if anyone talks to each other in the chow line or stays up after watch to watch movie together as a section to form some type of cohesion.
10/26/2011 5:19 PM
Times have changed. I remember a time years ago as I was standing SRW late in the day. I observed a SY worker taking measurements by the STBD ME bedplate. I asked him what he was doing and his reply was "getting ready to install a computer here". I was completely satisfied with our programable typewriter at the time.
10/26/2011 5:50 PM
@anon 1421: I wasn't aware that people were locked into courtrooms for four months at a time.
10/26/2011 7:15 PM
"I wasn't aware that people were locked into courtrooms for four months at a time." - anon 7:15
Really? The jury for Orenthal James Simpson had been sequestered for almost a year; and unlike submariners, OJ's jurors were NOT volunteers.
10/26/2011 8:13 PM
Yes, and I'm sure they weren't allowed to listen to music or call their families that entire time either.
10/26/2011 9:01 PM
Relatively certain that the ban on PED's in court rooms applies to the actual *COURT ROOM* and probably the areas where the jurors congregate as a group. You really think that they can't have laptops, IPADS, cellphones, etc in their hotel rooms?
I don't think there is really a problem with banning cell phones "on watch", in control, or in the Engine Room. Most sailors, in my experience, thought this kind of thing is no big deal. I have never seen anyone on a cell phone in control.
The only problem I see is banning taking these devices "to sea", because people want them on their off watch time to watch porn, listen to on the treadmill, listen to while field daying, play games with their shipmates, etc.
The world has changed, and its foolish to think that we can go backward.
I have a feeling this type of thing affects retention more than one might expect. I didn't get out because of this particular decision, but because of this type of decision-making, in general. It shows a general cluelessness about how to treat the people working long hours to make you successful. I can say in no uncertain terms that there are few people in this world that I hold in lower regard than US Military Flag Officers. I have met several, and been impressed with none.
10/26/2011 10:58 PM
Actually sequestered juries are volunteers; in that you can opt off that jury for any number of reasons. Sequestered also does not mean incomunicado...just that any papers, books, etc are sanitized of any pertinent info/tabloid talk about the trial.
For most of the OJ jury it was a year of pampering away from their tedious government jobs (and iaw civil service regs they still get full pay, only having to reimburse the gov for any monetary compensation given to jury members) with a high probability of fame and bookdeal/talkshow riches at the end of it alkl.
Hardly comparable with doing a boomer patrol.
10/26/2011 11:06 PM
This will be a good way to ensure that NUBs don't watch any fucking movies!
10/27/2011 7:55 AM
STS2 Sounds like he's Fast Attack Tough!
10/27/2011 2:11 PM
"And yes, that kind of unsympathetic, reactionary thinking has always provided the less-creative with justification for neglecting the real challenges."
That is the whole problem with the Force we are reactionary to much and we don’t look at the real challenges. Foresight is not one of our strengths right now. Leaning forward consistently works and mitigates issues such as training. The Sub Force was to dumb or naïve to think technology would not increase significantly. Alas instead we do what have always done and stick our heads in sand and hoped for the best. Wish in one hand and pinch a loaf, drop a duce, drop a CHOP/JO off at the pool(pick your favortie) in the other hand. What fills up first?
I dont if it’s I’m getting older but I’m tired of the beaurcracy of that plagues us with our day-to-day jobs (i.e. maintenance, PTS, poor accountability, or any other impediment we place in front of our Sailors). As the blog says “The Stupid Shall be Punished” and as we wait for the next big reactionary requirement we will be punished. lol
issues. The Sub Force was to dumb to realize technology would increase significantly but instead we do what have always done and stick our heads in sand and hoped for the best. Wish in one hand and shit in the other. What fills up first. I dont if its Im getting older but Im tired of the beaurcracy of that plagues us with our day-to-day jobs.
10/27/2011 3:59 PM
Hit the wrong button and sent.
"And yes, that kind of unsympathetic, reactionary thinking has always provided the less-creative with justification for neglecting the real challenges."
That is the whole problem with the Force we are reactionary to much and we don’t look at the real challenges. Foresight is not one of our strengths right now. Leaning forward consistently works and mitigates issues such as training. The Sub Force was to dumb or naïve to think technology would not increase significantly. Alas instead we do what have always done and stick our heads in sand and hoped for the best. Wish in one hand and pinch a loaf, drop a duce, drop a CHOP/JO off at the pool(pick your favorite) in the other hand. What fills up first?
I dont if it’s I’m getting older but I’m tired of the beaurcracy that plagues us with our day-to-day jobs (i.e. maintenance, PTS, poor accountability, or any other impediment we place in front of our Sailors). As the blog says “The Stupid Shall be Punished” and as we wait for the next big reactionary requirement we will be punished. lol
10/27/2011 4:06 PM
Any word on Vibrators?
10/27/2011 4:24 PM
Any word on Vibrators?
Allowed onboard as long as they are not used on watch in the sonar shack.
10/27/2011 6:18 PM
@16:06
"...Im tired of the beaurcracy of that plagues us with our day-to-day jobs."
Have you noticed our superior track record of global successes?
Rex
10/27/2011 7:07 PM
As compared to whom? It's easy to be the best when you are the only game in town. (Please don't say the Chinese!)
Those of us complaining are 1) sailors, so we like to complain and 2) are worried that the types of things we are doing are potentially putting that great track record at risk for the future.
10/27/2011 7:48 PM
I saw the headline and thought this would be about Performance Enhancing Drugs....
Without personal electronic devices it'll give the guys more time to organize a khaki merry-go-round pool for who'll get fired next.
10/27/2011 8:20 PM
Nubs and movies, you've got no worries there. I am sure that an exception will be granted if the PED is a stylish color coordinated accessory for the new riders and the recently liberated she-man. How can you possibly have nightly off-watch fashion shows without the latest fashion-tech?
10/27/2011 11:30 PM
Think about the spook loadout?
Those little geeks brought aboard shyt I'd never even seen to play with off watch.
Yep, get them to volunteer without that? Not in yer life.
I know of a local skimmer unit
that has a open nipr net wifi that
has no log-in???? WTF is up with that? My phone LOVES it.
A crock of shyt.
10/28/2011 3:24 AM
Nice blog even very effective selection of words.Your article writing skills are awesome.Do not stop and keep doing well.
10/28/2011 5:14 AM
The general consensus seems to be: this rule is another example of things getting worse in the sub force.
Then that must mean things were better in the past.
10-20 years in the past, we had no PEDs.
So if we outlaw PEDs, we're actually putting ourselves back in time to when we were better!
See, this memo has only the betterment of our sub force in mind, what's all the griping about???
10/28/2011 6:45 AM
PDEs include flash drives, no?
The capacity of these drives in the past 10 years has increased incredibly. As of September 2011, drives of 256 gigabytes have been commercially available. Two or three of them in a pocket or sock could hold a lot of information.
Let's not forget what a submariner with a clearance did back in March 2005
Why make it easier for traitors?
10/28/2011 3:40 PM
This is an uninformed question but even if a Playstation 3 or some other gaming console does have WiFi and network connectivity, why don't they just set up the networks on the subs so Sailor's game consoles cannot connect to the router? The same with book readers like Kindle? Just shut off net access from the router end of things ought to take care of it.
10/28/2011 4:36 PM
vigils, must you always put a link to your blog in your comments? You are a bit of a conspiracy theorist aren't you?
10/28/2011 7:17 PM
06:45
10-20 years in the past, we had no PEDs.
Are you a moron or what? '86 in the med watching ghadaffi getting bombed and I had a nice cassette tape recorder JUST to field day with.
Too many morons on this thread.
hagar
10/28/2011 9:14 PM
Don't mind our alter-gender troll, vigilis, some of us still like to be reminded of the facts occasionally.
10/28/2011 10:30 PM
Oh, em, gee, if you think calling me an alter-gender troll is going to hurt my feelings then try again. Perhaps you are the anonymous joker who called me a bitch on the other thread? Yeah, that did nit really bother me so much either.
He is spamming and it is annoying. If I wanted to read his blog then I would add it to my bookmarks.
10/29/2011 6:11 AM
Erica,
I agree with 90% of your posts, and usually enjoy reading your comments (considering you are 'fish-less').
However, this blog is a 'free speech zone,' so lighen up.
I see you live on the island (I lived on 'So. Snapper') and go to Ft. Clinch. One July 4th, the Jax Symphony performed insice the Ft. and concluded with the '1812 with cannon (up on the ramparts)' - that was pretty cool.
10/29/2011 7:51 AM
Weinmann downloaded info from SIPERNET onto a SOBT training computer and took it from the boat, not on a PED. I got deposed by NCIS for his court-martial and they asked me how easy is it to get classified information off the boat. I told them what do you want? I can get it for you by the end of the day, either in a seabag or on a flashdrive. I told them you can’t sailor-prof the system. You have to trust that sailor with the information. He had access to it because he was an FT and needed it to do his job. We just got our PED Privileges back where I work now. You can even have camera cell phones, as long as you leave them in your car.
10/29/2011 8:53 AM
Curt, I guess you all have figured out that getting defensive too easily is a vice, but some things are more annoying than others. People that I should ignore but do not always get the best of me.
Anyway, I love Ft. Clinch. We have only been out there once and it is awesome. I cannot wait to take my kids out there again. Maybe we will time it so that they can see a sub. When we were there last time we just missed one leaving. I was actually kind of bummed.
Is it worth the extra money to go into the fort?
10/29/2011 9:04 AM
Sorry Vigilis. I was unfair to call you out.
10/29/2011 9:06 AM
Erica, I don'e remember how much it costs... It's mostly creepy deserted rooms/corridors and a grass 'infield.' But, the view from the ramparts is great. If you can time it with a boat coming or going or just turning around (in the Ft. Clinch turning basin), I would go for it. Maybe, go by yourself first, and then back with friends and family if you like it??
I reenlisted there, and then went to the Palace (before it burned) for a few - HA!. FB is a great place to live, that's for sure.
10/29/2011 5:24 PM
Stop comparing PED bans shoreside (or in civ world) to PED bans on Submarines. If I can't bring my cell phone into my office or a courtroom, I can still pick it up for use when I leave at 5pm. On a Submarine, we live where we work. If I can't bring a PED on board, that means I can't use it for upwards of over 6 months, even when I'm off-watch or on liberty ashore.
10/30/2011 9:03 AM
@ ANON 9:03 That's why you get; sea-pay, sub-pay, haz duty-pay...etc. Suck it up francis!
10/30/2011 1:21 PM
"On a Submarine, we live where we work. If I can't bring a PED on board, that means I can't use it for upwards of over 6 months, even when I'm off-watch or on liberty ashore."
That's ok, the taxpayer pays you to work not have fun. If you have time to lean, you have time to clean. Tere are a lot of things you give up in the military...this is just one more to add to the list. If you don't like it, vote with your feet.
Anyway, who are you going to call? Your cock filled wife? Your slut-whore girlfriend? or, in keeping with today's Navy, your peter-puffing boyfriend?
Like they say, suck it up buttercup!
10/30/2011 4:59 PM
No, I don't get sea pay, haz duty pay, and sub pay so someone can go full retard on PED's; I get sea pay because I am attached to a unit that goes to sea, I get sub pay because I'm on smelly 300 ft tube breathing 18% oxygen on a good day and inhaling the smell of amine mixed with rotten food on a regular basis, and I get hazardous duty pay because shit on a submarine is dangerous and HM1 might not be able to fix it.
Let's not mix apples with oranges. Restricting PED's has nothing to do with special pays associated with submarine duty.
10/30/2011 5:01 PM
Anon 9:03 is correct. I just got back from West-Pac, and as someone who remembers the days of cassette decks, no music in the ER, and banks of overpriced pay phones on the pier, you all need to recognize that we have moved on. The ability to Skype in Diego Garcia was the difference between $0.65/ min, and essentially free. Like it or not, movies, music, and entertainment are on PEDs. Many people don't have a landline phone anymore. Any permanent solution that includes boats going underway without taking phones is bound to fail as sailors will bring them in their bags anyway. Let's hope the test platforms perform an honest assessment to include the quality of life of our newer sailors.
10/30/2011 5:19 PM
Being forced to take part in this 'test' i can tell you that we're not allowed to bring cell phones or any other PED to the boat, our PS3 and Xbox are secured as well. We still take logs on our palm pilot. From what we've been told this is only inport so we'll be able to have our phones and stuff once underway.
It's a pain in the arse but hopefully it'll last long enough to give them some results, not sure how they'll measure those 'results' though. In typical submariner fashion we'll adapt and overcome this nonsense.
10/30/2011 6:54 PM
@5:01
Might be time to add PED pay.
10/30/2011 7:51 PM
The reason we were great in the 80s is because we had an actual enemy that could be a threat. We have no clear mission today. Most of my last westpac was tooling around and a show of force. Last time I checked, we were supposed to stay hidden and skimmers showed off their force.
10/31/2011 2:33 PM
anon @10/31/2011 2:33 PM
"We have no clear mission today. Most of my last westpac was tooling around and a show of force. Last time I checked, we were supposed to stay hidden and skimmers showed off their force."
Conclusion: You, sir, are a nuc. Your critical but obviously skeletal mission is propulsion!
Accept what you signed up for and stop trying to access what you are definitely not cleared to know.
- One of the pukes forward of the knowlegeable pukes forward of frame _ _!
10/31/2011 6:16 PM
"might be time to add PED pay"
Or maybe just not be stupid. Since we're comparing apples to oranges, in civ world if you refuse to adapt to technology, you fall behind in efficiency and eventually go out of business.
If you fall behind in military land, you just suck a higher percentage of the US budget into a growing national debt that no one can touch without losing his job.
10/31/2011 6:20 PM
anon @10/31/2011 2:33 PM
"We have no clear mission today. Most of my last westpac was tooling around and a show of force. Last time I checked, we were supposed to stay hidden and skimmers showed off their force."
Conclusion: You, sir, are a nuc. Your critical but obviously skeletal mission is propulsion!
Accept what you signed up for and stop trying to access what you are definitely not cleared to know.
- One of the pukes forward of the knowlegeable pukes forward of frame _ _!
10/31/2011 6:26 PM
I think active duty people get an inflated sense of how important specops are. There may be a couple missions that matter a little every 2-3, but that's about it.
Ask yourself this question : would it make more sense for my job to be done by a robot? If so, what you're doing probably isn't as high speed as you think.
10/31/2011 9:38 PM
Wait until the secret squirrel James Bond types find out their skillset qualifies them as mall cops, male models or lifeguards ... while nucs will take their pick of jobs starting at $100-$150K and up in powerplants, semiconductors, petroleum, defense contractors etc. etc. ...
11/01/2011 1:39 AM
@derek, already there. Being aft of frame __ definitely has its reward$ once out of the Navy.
11/01/2011 2:37 PM
This sounds like an good, old fashioned "Greeneville Morale Booster." The beatings will continue until morale improves.
11/01/2011 3:47 PM
Stop being such pussies. I was off the coast of "Country X" when my CO let me know I was the Proud Father of a Beautiful Baby Girl. Military service is tough, always has been always SHOULD be. If you don't like it, Get The Fuck Out. There's plenty of Patriots willing to fill your billet and your empty rack. Believe it or not. SS Service is the Elite of The Fleet.
11/01/2011 7:33 PM
"There's plenty of Patriots willing to fill your billet and your empty rack. Believe it or not."
As long as the economy blows fat donkey balls. You must have been unrated, striking for Boatswain mate on some godforsaken frigate somewhere, because this is the straight second stupidest thing I have ever read on here (first being the impending Chinese Container Ship invasion).
Retention and recruitment has SUCKED for much of the relatively recent past. In the mid 90's the average wardroom had like 5 JO's. This was not by choice. Luckily, 9/11->Start of Iraq War->Worldwide financial Calamity has kept interest high, but this will not always be so.
11/01/2011 9:46 PM
Wardroom manning? That is now the stupidest thing ever written here. The ship is not run by the wardroom...and if it is...that's a problem.
11/02/2011 5:21 AM
I think everyone should read the instruction that is mentioned in the main post. It states everything that everyone wants to know. If you can't find it on NIPR, check SIPR.
11/02/2011 2:15 PM
Enlisted nuke retention also sucks donkey balls. That's why we have 7-9 year chiefs and 3-5 year E-6's. It's been better lately, but that's a large part because the economy sucks, too.
This policy is indicative of a bigger picture -- the Navy is resistant to changes in technology, even when those changes can produce useful tools that save man-hours and make things more convenient (eg, outlawing the use of thumb-drives).
I'm glad some of you may have walked up-hill both ways barefoot in the snow to work, but the fact is that technology exists that allows Sailors to stay in touch with their loved ones. There are also work-related tasks that people could use PED's for to be more efficient, provided they don't put classified material on the device (or just decide to label it and lose it). There are plenty of other service billets that allow the Servicemembers to have personal electronics and use them in their down time; you honestly think Submarine retention won't suffer in light of that?
We are depriving everyone of contact with the outside world and stifling the ability to be more productive with current technology because we are too lazy to figure out how to manage it and too afraid of our own shadows.
11/02/2011 3:08 PM
I am not sure I would have made it through my Div-O tour without my palm pilot.
I suppose you can just tell everybody to use pad and paper, but that is not a solution to the problem, just an excuse not to solve it.
11/02/2011 8:28 PM
Unfortunately this isn't just a Navy or submarine issue. The Army is also cracking down as well as the entire DOD. Not to mention private industry in this age of industrial espionage.
11/02/2011 8:39 PM
Nuc's probably have a a bigger starting stake in a capitalist economy that offers "jobs starting at $100-$150K" (-Derek Flint), but how do those jobs pay in socialist countries like France and the UK, and had you heard yet that...
Nov. 3 (Bloomberg) -- Mexico, one of three Latin American nations that uses nuclear power, is abandoning plans to build as many as 10 new reactors and will focus on natural gas-fired electricity plants after boosting discoveries of the fuel.
11/03/2011 3:07 PM
China, on the other hand is planning to build 50 plants in the next 20 years. The industry is not even sure that the capacity exists for that to even be possible!
Long term, a significant portion of the world will transition to Nuclear Power, speed bumps notwithstanding. The economics and politics surrounding global warming virtually demand it, and there's no plausible alternatives that offer the same benefits and also suitable for baseline power.
11/03/2011 7:52 PM
Anon @ 7:52 PM-
"a significant portion of the world will transition to Nuclear Power"
No argument here from this believer in nuclear power, but my question, which should NOT have omitted China, was "how do those jobs pay in socialist countries like France and the UK"?
Energy competitiveness is certainly a major goal in the long term.
11/04/2011 11:23 AM
Nuc's probably have a a bigger starting stake in a capitalist economy that offers "jobs starting at $100-$150K" (-Derek Flint), but how do those jobs pay in socialist countries like France and the UK, and had you heard yet that...
Not sure that I get your implication. Are you implying that my salary will be drastically reduced when the U.S. becomes a socialist country? If that was your intent, I don't really care what the salary would be, because should that ever occur, I would already be dead - as in over my dead body. As for the Occupiers, they can occupy my 4x32.
11/04/2011 4:20 PM
Anon @ 4:20 PM
Congratulations! You got the easy part of the socialist implication.
More importantly, however, is if and when the U.S. ever turned socialist, other socialist nations would feel justified by elimination of capitalist competition in average living standards which they had never matched, that their own standards would be relaxed in cascades resulting in modern feudalism, modern nobility, and virtual serfdom for the surviving masses.
This has been the obvious course of human nature as amply recorded in history.
11/05/2011 9:05 AM
The problem is what it always was..archaic security requirements that do not keep up with technology. The only answer? Ban it all. The problem is that the answer only makes life difficult for those who give a damn and serve their nation honorably. It does nothing to actually secure the information that people are trying to protect. How about real encryption on a LAN that isnt cobbled together with 10 year old servers? The reality of life is that Sailors read books, watch movies, listen to music and play games on their PEDs. The reality is that some spy probably uses things in plain sight to steal information...how about protect the information. If you want to keep your home safe, you lock the doors and be careful who you invite in. You don't restrict access within a mile of your house. Rules like this not only dont work, they insult the men (and women) who sacrifice daily to do a damn tough job. Way to alienate the crews!
11/06/2011 6:30 PM
Anon @ 6:30 PM
Your comment is honest, sincere and representative of an attitude that belies the very attitude of those who "who give a damn and serve their nation honorably".
Your attitude has the whiny, bitchy ring of a true technical submariner (at sea).
It lacks, however, the authenticity of officers and men who really give a damn about following orders "that do not keep up with technology."
Only one with a very large ego could even think he would be in a position to know, much less judge all of the facts the bear on every unpopular order. Guess what, in the submarine service, you do not know everything you thought you knew.
You seem intelligent, and I will assume that you can certainly venture a sound guess why that might be the case in submarines more than just about anywhere else in the Navy.
11/06/2011 9:05 PM
Jeezus - what a sanctimonious, condescending prick. Seems like officers like that are usually only encountered in a book or movie. You must be quite an inspiring figure...
11/06/2011 10:21 PM
Jeezus - what a sanctimonious, condescending prick. Seems like officers like that are usually only encountered in a book or movie. You must be quite an inspiring figure...
He's one of those guys you love to ef with, making him do everything exactly by the book, then screwing with him at every opportunity. He's so enamored of his own position, he's not even truly aware of his surroundings and the fact that he's being screwed. He has arrived.
11/07/2011 5:04 PM
you forgot the tag line:
He is... An officer among men. He is the smartest man in the room. He is.... a Navy Leader.
11/07/2011 6:18 PM
Funny thing is that I happen to be in a position to be in the know and understand the underlying reasons behind the order.
I simply think that it is a misplaced solution that won't have the slightest affect on security, and will actually hinder real security measures from being implemented. If you pose a solution that won't work, but makes people happy because you are "doing something," you prevent people from taking measures that really solve the problem.
The fact is that banning PED's does not solve our problem of network security, integrating new technology (on a platform built on COTS technology),information security as well as new, more accessible portable devices. 10 years ago, we couldn't think of how simple chat technology could increase our effectivness as a warfighting platform, but we should have, and we should have implemented security measures then to deal with people openly chatting on networks at various security levels. It is actually more dangerous because people may think we have solved the problem and they stop looking for real solutions. We need to have foresight with security and emerging technology, not archaic bans.
Add to that the drag on moral that this causes and you have a poor policy.
I know how to "take and order"..so no smoking, no iPhones..I get it. Aye Aye (I understand and will comply if you dont know your Naval Terminolgy).
But in the sprit of true submarining, the spirit of a questioning attitude steeped in years of experience and the need in the fleet for foreceful backup. The policy is poor. It does not solve the problem. It harms moral and most importantly, it puts barriers in the way of real solutions because it posits itself as an effective solution.
11/08/2011 5:39 PM
Good post; nice to see an intelligent viewpoint without all the rest. BTW, your lookup for today is "moral" v. "morale"...
11/08/2011 9:08 PM
Heck, SWOs are filming music videos.
11/10/2011 10:44 AM
Heck back whern I was punching holes in the water tghese devices did not exist and somehow we got along. That being said This is soem kind of dumg. Probably someone worried about EMI and trying to make a name for themsleves and get that end of tour award.
11/19/2011 4:36 PM
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1/18/2012 6:02 AM
Not to re-open a wound, but it is here and enforceable.
About to go underway myself with NO electronic devices. They are trying to allow Kindles but if it is portable and has a camera or mic, it pretty much is banned.
Laptops are OK still, because they are not portable, even with cameras and mics...
Cellphones and ipads are expressly prohibited. Sucks too, becuase i DID NOT buy all that other shit BECAUSE i have a smartphone with the ability to compute at high rates of speed.
This WILL affect retention. After 15 years I am tired of the bullshat. I dont even want to retire anymore.
5/16/2012 4:32 PM
Orders from an officer.... Everyone knows officers aren't real people
7/29/2012 1:08 PM
It is true! No more PEDs of any kind on board, in port or underway. What a kick in the dick for morale!
3/13/2013 4:23 PM
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