"Get The Grease!"
At work yesterday, for some reason the conversation between me and one of the other Submariners I work with turned towards some of the pranks we boat types used to pull on each other. Some of the more disturbing ones involve things done to people while they're asleep or otherwise incapacitated. Whether it's a Shellback getting silver nitrate "teardrops" applied to his face as he sleeps during the 'Wog Rebellion or the poor guy who got stuck behind some piece of machinery having unmentionable things done to him, the lesson we Submariners learn early is "don't leave yourself vulnerable".
Confession time: what's the worst thing you've done (or seen done) to a shipmate who was unable to effectively defend themselves?
posted by Bubblehead at 2:36 PM
94 Comments:
Not a Shellback situation, and the AgNO3 was applied to the manhood of a shipmate due to be married the NEXT DAY. That seemed beyond the pale, even for the nukes.
Same boat, same year: Nuke MMs had threatened to shave the moustache off an unqualified auxilliaryman we called 'Mouse', once it had fully grown. About three months later, it looked decent.
The little A-man, who carried a 12" crescent wrench in his back pocket at all times, went to his chief for critical support.
The chief got Lt. A. to write an order that no one could shave off Mouse's stash, or else. It was posted on the crew's mess bulletin board.
About a week later, the nukes shaved off only half of Mouse's stash. Mouse was super pissed, everyone else was very amused, and Lt. A's order was considered not to have been violated.
Mouse eventually grew another one nobody bothered, went on to get qualified, and turned out to be a good crewmember.
10/05/2011 4:18 PM
It cannot to be repeated, ever.
10/05/2011 4:38 PM
On the NYC, we had a rider non-qual QM from the Indy who was so eager to learn, he royally pissed us off. While at sea, each department had to send a man to the engine room to help field day prior to ORSE. Our rider was selected and once aft, he was grabbed, his poopie suit dragged off and his skivvies lowered and the business end of a wet/dry vac placed over his manhood and power was applied and a Polaroid was taken for eventual return to his boat. It was evident his skivvies had been recycled.
On the Bremerton, we had an A-ganger who was near useless. So much so his department taped him up with EB Green and hung him upside down in the AMR from DE-1 valve. He was later disqualed from the boats and left the Navy on a personality disorder discharge.
Once on the Bremerton, we had duty section training on small arms and I was seated in such a way that I was able to disassemble the 1911 .45ACP and hid the bushing. Drove the TM trainer nuts trying to find it.
The Nucs on the Bremerton were getting aggravated with the XO messing with them so they took his SR door off the hinges and hid it under the main engines. The XO was beside himself with rage and had a Nuc NUB stand guard outside his SR with a EAB on and plugged in until his door magically reappeared.
10/05/2011 5:35 PM
My favorite would be the guy who obviously "didn't get the memo" about not being overly jealous/protective of your wife, girlfriend, or daughter, or, if you are, DON'T make it apparent that you are.
Of course, halfway through patrol, various Hustler-style porn photos started showing up around the boat with Xeroxed faces of this person's wife taped in place of the true "photo model."
10/05/2011 6:39 PM
Bored out of my mind on a midwatch one night...Broke out the sewing machine (Gotta do that PMS on it, ya know?). Talked the Messenger into sneaking into the XOSR and swiping his poopie suit. PMS consisted of sewing the legs shut. The real punch-line is that the MS's were doing CO/XO laundry, so his other poopies were in the wash when he woke up in the morning. He took it well....He knew he couldn't PROVE that I had done it so he never accused me of it, but he did glare at me several times over the next few days! Made it worth it!
10/05/2011 6:48 PM
On hawkbill we froze the XO's rack (well, at least the foam part). Also hung a non-qual M-Div'r by his feet from a padeye in the tunnel...left him there for an hour. The Eng was good with it and his only caution was he had to come down if we answered more than a 1/3 bell. My favorite prank was dumping a Cylume-stick into a drip trap with midshipman aboard...they freaked. Especially since it was casually wiped up with a Kim-wipe, sniffed, and declared to be "less than."
10/05/2011 7:19 PM
We had junior RO who was severely hen-pecked. We had been in a cycle of only working 1/2 a day following a duty day but this particular day, he had to stay and help with something.
His wife called and he happened to not be on the boat at the time so I took the call...she was wondering where her husband was.
"Jeez, I don't know. He left the boat several hours ago."
Needless to day he was one pissed off dude the next day but damn that was funny!!!
Old chief from the dark ages
Jerry
P.S. The episode predates chiefdom.
10/05/2011 8:20 PM
My last patrol on my boat saw a new MM(nuc) come on board. He had to cut his honeymoon short to make flyaway. We did an ERP (which turned into a really ERP, but that is a story for another day) and were within a day of pulling into port for turnover. A bunch of us were sitting in the crew's lounge, shooting the sh*t; the young MM(nuc) was there, and we began razzing him. We told him we were going to get him in trouble with his new wife by giving him hickies all over his body, thus causing her to believe he was, uhhh, less than faithful during their separation. He told us there weren't enough of us motherf&ckers to give him even one hickie; naturally we had to prove him wrong. A good time was had by all (except him). Flash forward a few days. I had the first duty day in the off crew office standing duty chief (why did they call it duty chief when only first classes stood it?) when the phone rang. The duty PO answered it, listened for about a minute or so and said "it's for you" I took the phone and was confronted by one very angry wife. She found her new husband's explanation of how he got all those hickies to be incredible. He told her to call the office for verification. I was forced to admit yes, we gave her husband the hickies. I was treated to a lengthy diatribe calling us perverts and describing what would happen to each and every one of us in hell. My only response was to agree "Yes ma'am, we are sick perverts" and "Yes ma'am, we are most likely going to hell" and offer apologies for our actions. Fortunately I left the boat in about a week's time. I never heard anything bout the incident after that. AHHHH the good old days.
10/05/2011 9:49 PM
On Skate we got a new guy who was VERY homophobic. Naturally the entire crew suddenly became "lite in the loafers" and started playing gr@b@ss with the guy and asking if we can just see his nether regions. Finally ended up with him cornered in birthing with a bunch of sex-crazed sailors all trying to package check him.
On Chicago on my last day the STs held me down and smothered my nads in blue stamp pad ink. A whole bottle of the stuff. Not thinking, I grabbed a chemwipe, soaked it in alcohol, and proceded to wash my scrotum...for a few seconds.
Double boned.
6 weeks later I got to do a TRE workup ride on Gurnard. Put my poopie suit on and proceeded to do the rider thing. That night took the poopie siut off and my shorts and Nads were covered in blue ink...yep, the fairwell blue-balling on the ChiTown soaked into my poopie siut and was waiting to get me again...triple boned.
10/05/2011 11:57 PM
Worst that ever happened to me was my first underway on Buffalo (Spec Op) transiting back on X-Mas Eve. I got ambushed in FCML passageway, dragged down to Torpedo Room where various folks were waiting with Mobil Red, Neolube, Whiteout, and hickies. Dragged up to Crew's Mess where they were watching Sound of Music. My head bounced off the deck as the XO was walking by. Then taken behind Maneuvering where I was released.
Worst I ever did was also on Buffy after I got qualified. Obnoxious little striker was Shaft Alley messenger (I was on JA) when he came back (late as usual) and I told him to get a 10-lb. water hammer from the A-gangers for the SPM operator. He thought I was bullshitting him, but when he asked the others, they were very convincing. I called up to AMR and told them to keep it going.
Kid almost missed movement. Two minutes before the brow went up, COB sees him on the pier heading for his THIRD shop (had already hit 38N and someone else) and screams at him to get his worthless ass back on board. Yeah, I got bitched out, but that one was worth it.
10/06/2011 12:43 AM
Let's see...
Shoe polish on the RC periscope eye pieces was always a good one. Had an EOOW come back from a ER tour looking like a raccoon.
Using the thermal imager in berthing to find guys choking the chicken, then whip open the curtain!
Show nubs how to make hot chocolate from main condensate drains - morpholine enhanced hot water.
EB Greening the doc between the Main for give the nukes shit.
Hooking a megger up to the maneuvering chain and crank it up when someone went to reach.
Connected tygon tubing to the fwd O2 bleed and fed it directly into a guy's rack. 20 minutes later he comes into crews mess indicating he can't sleep.
That's just a few..
PB Sterling ET1/SS
10/06/2011 6:57 AM
I was working out in the TR when a bunch of A-gangers brought in a nub, taped his hands behind his back, then threatened to "grease him." A violent struggle ensued. Eventually the A-gangers put an EAB on the nub and would disconnect the EAB from the manifold every time the nub thrashed around. The nub's shorts were filled with grease and he was let go.
10/06/2011 7:59 AM
On the CGN I was stationed on, I went down to #1 plant for a throttleman UI... as I was approaching EOS, I noticed that the mechanics had stationed a bench in front of the EOS window (we had it to see what was going on in the engineroom, and also so that the throttleman could see the shaft) and one of them had dropped trou and planted his butt cheeks to the window.
I'm sure that those inside EOS enjoyed the show.
So, about half an hour into my UI watch, another mechanic shows up at the window, waves at all of us, then proceeds to lick the window. A small procession of other mechanics proceed to do the same thing over the next half hour or so.
As you can imagine, the occupants of EOS watched this with a bit of disgust, particularly since we knew that those who were participating probably had no idea what had happened earlier that evening.
10/06/2011 9:53 AM
I was taped up and hung upside down in switch gear. I was upside down for so long that blood vessels in my eye lids busted. The four people that were apart of this endeavor had their picture taken with me like I was a great catch.
We also did silver nitrate on sound powered phone ear pieces and another favorite was to sit on top of the ETB in the MMR and dump a bucket of water on the heads of innocent passerby.
The guys also liked to do poop splashes. Get a guy taking a sit down on the toilet, another guy takes a bucket of water and dumps it on them.
We also used to tell the guys new to Division that there was a bowling alley, and then send them on a hunt to find it. Thing is, there was a bowling alley but that was a long storage room where RE-Div would store supplies.
Pink bellies and sharpies were also a common occurence, especially for the guys that were getting ready to leave.
10/06/2011 10:53 AM
>Using the thermal imager in berthing to find guys choking the chicken, then whip open the curtain!
Thermal imagers can see through curtains? No shit?
10/06/2011 12:47 PM
Anyone familiar with "the other end" of the periscope thing?
10/06/2011 1:19 PM
Instant replay from days gone by:
On ustafish, TM1(SS) Major Dumbshit was 'prepped' by his shipmates (incl. the COB) for his upcoming wedding by way of silver nitrate on some very private parts.
Went real bad...in a non-funny way...as the TM1 used everything...and I mean everything, including gasoline...to try and reverse the blackening effects. Ended up with some substantial chemical burns, and the head doc at the local Naval Hospital blew a gasket. End effect was the torpedoing of several careers, incl. that of the TyCom-tier COB, who was otherwise a major good guy.
And thus the name of Joel's blog comes to mind.
10/06/2011 1:47 PM
This didn't happen on the boat but on shore duty:
As a QM2(SS) stationed in Subic, mid-late 80's I did a lot of "sampling" the culture. Well one bit of culture turned into the clap.
I knew which girl it was, so a friend of mine and I were out having a few beers one morning, a few days later, (we were MP's, the only submariners, and worked the night shift) and we went to the bar in which the girl above worked. She was hot and my friend wanted to partake but didn't have the money.
Being the nice, unselfish guy that I am, I paid for the short time (just under 7 bucks). He had a great time, we drank a couple more beers and went home to sleep and do it all over again that night.
A few days later we are on patrol in town, chasing drunks and making "arrangements" for after the shift entertainment. We find a couple of girls to hook up with but he said he was tired and was heading home after work. Puzzled, I asked what's up...then he confesses: he caught the clap from the girl I bought for him.
I just gave him the "that sucks" look and never said anything else. I finally told him at his wedding about a year later and in true submariner comradeship, he gave me the thumbs up and said "nice one!" We still laugh about it to this day!
Jim C.
Ret. ANAV
10/06/2011 5:45 PM
As a non qual nuke mm3 on the Philly, we went to PNSY just a couple of months after I got on board. We had moved division work stations onto a barge.
M-Div was down in the far corner and I came strolling into our area and immediately saw trouble. Everyone was looking at me with wicked smiles on their faces. I turned to run knowing what was coming only to find the way blocked by a couple guys.
They crossed my arms in front of my chest and then thoroughly taped them to my body. They then taped a board to the bag of my legs which made it so I was pitched forward a little. They took turns standing me up and letting me fall over.
Then it was time for "Dr. Paul" to do his work. He took my crank out and splinted it with duct tape and tongue depressors.
The MMCM came onto the barge so they put me out the side door and on the side of the barge, on my back, taped head to toe with my crank splinted. I was lying on the deck about 18" wide. If I had rolled off the side, I would have drowned.
As I was lying there, the harbor patrol boat came in the area. I could see the guys in the pilot house pointing and laughing at me! Finally the MMCM left and they dragged me back inside. They partially freed one of hands and gave me an open pocket knife. It took me two hours to get out. And just so you know, you don't pull EB green off your dick, you pull your dick off the EB green!
One of my favorite memories and I took it all in stride. And I can say that I carried on the tradition over the years - EABs, red grease, neolube, prussian blue, 29 degree sea water and many other inventive methods. When I tell civvies that story, they are horrified and just shake their head.
10/06/2011 7:05 PM
Some of this stuff... I can't believe you aren't fully in favor of DADT repeal!
10/06/2011 7:19 PM
Jim C.
"We still laugh about it to this day!"
You are leaving too much out of your story, dude. As a shipmate you absolutely suck!
Paul from Myerstown
10/06/2011 7:29 PM
Paul,
I have to leave some stuff out to protect the guilty...the statue of limitations on some things still hasn't passed!
-------------
We had a homophobe CO, so every few days underway, someone would put a gay porn mag on his rack. He would come into the Chief's Lounge and start yelling and screaming, telling us to stop...ya, right.
Anyway, it would still happen every few days and everbody would laugh. Even the XO gave him one on his birthday!
Then one night while playing cards, after a month of this, someone asks the question: "why do we have all these gay porn mags onboard in the first place". So we sat there for a while pondering this life altering question, then, in true boomer fag tradition, blamed it on the "other crew"!
Jim C
Ret. ANAV
10/06/2011 8:31 PM
As the TMC on the 613 I walked through the TR one night while underway. I thought I seen a QM3 taped to a long loading pole connected to tube #1 loading rammer out of the corner of my eye. I wasn't sure but sensed quiet when I was noticed in the space. I kept on walking and out the back door. Wonder how many trips, back and forth that man made?
10/06/2011 8:34 PM
"We had a homophobe CO..."
Sorry, that should have read "COB"! But who knows, maybe the CO was too?
10/06/2011 8:51 PM
Bosco.. that enterprising ET from RC div walks back to the M-Div workbench and says that nobody in M div has the balls to mess with RC div.
Little did he realize that we had just recieved this large shrinkwrapped package of EB Green tape..
He turns around to find two of my fellow M-Div'rs right behind him. Quick as you can say 'Oh Shit...'about 6 or 7 of us grab im and the tape is unwrapped.
Next thing he knows, we have him wrapped from head to toe about 6 feet of the deck. He had taped him to an ERFW pipe outboard the stbd SSTG while the rest of RC-Div stood there observing the teamwork.
Next thing we know, we heard the Eng calling for Boscoe concerning a report that he needed. Quick as a flash we scatter.
Bosco calls out to the Eng and all we are thinking is that we are busted.
The Eng walks up to him like nothing is going on and proceeds to ball him out over the lack of a report. Nothing is noted about his condition and we watched in rapt attention as we were waiting for the WTF to come out.
Never happened. He had his say, turned around, and went forward.
Later we heard from one of the JO's that he went forward and damn near peed himself with laughter. Then he went and told the CO that the nukes were bored and that they had better come up with something to occupy us.
10/06/2011 10:08 PM
Had a fellow EM who thought he was shit hot. While we were on a Spec Op he was in the watch section I relieved. About every other watch I would sneak into berthing and trim about a 1/4" off his belt while he slept. Shortly thereafter he resorted to leaving his belt unbuckled, but tying the tip to a belt loop. He said, "I don't understand it, I'm not gaining any weight, how can my waist be getting bigger?"
10/06/2011 10:51 PM
@KellyJ
I think the pubes in your coffee was a much better effort. Funnier than hell watching you cough up the hair ball! B2
10/07/2011 3:22 AM
On a deep midwatch, I took a NUB with me to show him how to perform PMS on the floating antenna. We were floating the antenna later so I showed this kid what to do and told him, "I've done it 600 times kid, you're doing it and I'll make sure you don't blast water all over the contro rooml. Ask the OOD for permission to blow the N-A-V."
Fortunately for me, the OOD was the Navigator, an old school nuc MM turned LT.
This guy goes to the conn and boldly recites, "Officer of the Deck...Request to blow the N-A-V."
Everyone smiled and looks at him...The Nav cracked a mischievous half smile and stepped out from the conn, grabbing his package. The gig was up. Good times.
We also had a fun game called "Tea Potting". I don't know why it was named that, but it involved finding a computer unlocked and unattended/coercing someone to leave their computer signed in, all the while devious, horribly homosexual things were emailed to the crew from their account. I got to be rather good at it and could send out a quality email in just under a minute. The worst ones that I did weren't sent out to the whole crew...they were sent to the victims friend, proclaiming homo-erotic feelings for him. Of course they were all blind carbon copied to me and or other radioman to laugh at on watch. There's a ton more...I'll be back.
ET2(SS) M.
SSN 764
10/07/2011 4:27 AM
Just a thought from a really old DBF'er...
You Nucs are a sick, perverted bunch of bastards with way too much time on your hands and minds...To make matters worse, you think what you did was funny too!
We old guys were held to a much higher standard of course////
10/07/2011 6:35 AM
DBFer, lighten up, Francis.
10/07/2011 8:02 AM
I was on the 622 in 1988 when a few Maneuvering watch standers got tired of a particular pain in the ass EOOW falling asleep on watch so they decided to teach him a lesson.
We stationed people on white rats to ensure that we could pull it off without getting caught, so the three watch standers relieve the watch and sure enough about 1 hour into the watch the EOOW passes out, he's in the EOOW chair, head back, mouth wide open cutting some ZZZZ's.
They turn off lights and exit Maneuvering, which is quiet a feet, seems how the outboard station has to practically Spiderman it over the EOOW, activates a test alarm, and then watch the EOOW wake up, look around and once he comes to the realization that he’s all alone in maneuvering he pisses himself.
Absolutely awesome! Never really did find out what he said to his relief about pissing himself.
10/07/2011 8:37 AM
Hey DBF'er,
Not sick and perverted. It's freakin' hilarious! The belt trick was particularly funny to me. I could actually picture the poor bastard saying "I don't understand!"
10/07/2011 9:46 AM
B2: Ah yes, the pubes. I'm still seeing "The Doctor" ovar that one.
But that time you guys set the training tape to play through the system, then had radio doctor a bogus flash report that was then briefed by the on-coming OOD that an "unknown submerged contact" had been identified off SoCal. I take the sonar watch and 5 minutes later start picking up bad-guy active sonar pulses.
That was brilliant.
10/07/2011 11:29 AM
I was pretty sure I had picked up something from a liberty port. Soooo, I'm in AMR2LL describing my condition to the watch (who was also my BEQ roomie). He says, "Let me see." I whipped my business out and he bends over to get a better look. About that time someone clears their throat at the ladder. We both look over and see the M-Div LPO (an MMCS) standing with his mouth agape.
We tried to explain what was going on, but the chief said he didn't want to know and took off up the ladder. All we could do was laugh. Of course we told everyone, but Senior never was sure if there was something else going on.
A couple of years later the chief was an LDO in Pearl when we pulled in on our way to a WestPac. Lo and behold, my roommate and I see chief/LDO walking down the pier. We could tell by the way he looked at us and talked to us that he was thinking,"Those guys are homos."
BTW, I ended up going to the doc for treatment.
10/07/2011 12:06 PM
Your stupid antics of yesterday will haunt our force forever! Now young nubs will read this blog and think taping, greasing, tacking, and worse are how we build morale and camaraderie onboard. So thanks to all of you for submarine service, but your continued glorification of hazing will lead to the next great black eye for those of us still trying to keep the business professional. When the CO of that next boat with hazing gets fired I wish it could be pinned on you.
10/07/2011 12:14 PM
@10/07/2011 12:14 PM
Sorry if we served before you pussies in the faggified, chickified, PC submarine service. Enjoy the ride - I'll sit back and laugh.
10/07/2011 12:35 PM
We had a torpedoman that was big....and dumb as a rock. A gang came up with a competition. Who could put their thumbs in a vise and take the most turns of the handle. The torpedoman was intent on getting "the record". Once his thumbs were in, the grease came out. He argued, but nothing he could do about it. Later on, after he cleaned up, he showed up in AMR and said "I want the record....don't grease me this time". They said "ok". Thumbs go back in and you can guess the rest.
MM1/SS
10/07/2011 2:02 PM
And now we bring you more PC BS on women in subs from that Lamestream media outlet, Time Magazine
10/07/2011 3:20 PM
Just found out today during field day that 2 guys
Came out of the "closet." The world did not end and life goes on as usual. Funny thing is both guys are ST's...go figure. A second class with 10 years in and a third with less than 2.
10/07/2011 3:21 PM
Just found out today during field day that 2 guys
Came out of the "closet." The world did not end and life goes on as usual. Funny thing is both guys are ST's...go figure. A second class with 10 years in and a third with less than 2.
No problem? Does the 3C work for the 2C? Special treatment? Sexual harassment? I'll go get my popcorn. (Of course we knew most of the fags would be coming from the sonar girls. Oops, did I say "fag?")
10/07/2011 3:30 PM
Anon @ 320-
Hate to break it to you, but the author really does have a point. God forbid you take any woman seriously especially one who might actually know her shit and put forth effort.
10/07/2011 4:06 PM
Wait do women like that really exist?
10/07/2011 4:07 PM
Ironically they are both in the same in-port watch section. I wonder if that will have to change? I saw the COB doing a lot of head shaking as he walked around today and a heard a lot of " I fuc*^€> knew it" as the word spread like wildfire. Today was very interesting to say the least. However as I said, life goes on...
10/07/2011 4:12 PM
Anon, I call BS about the two flaming STS.
Which boat is this supposedly?
10/07/2011 4:32 PM
Hate to break it to you, but the author really does have a point.
A point that is makes fiscal sense to reconfigure boats to accommodate women or a point that women enhance our warfighting capability?
I call a big ol' bullshit on both of those.
As for homos in sonar, whudda thunk it?
10/07/2011 4:32 PM
Thanks for answering my question. I now know that you feel that women are inferior and can never operate at the same capabilities as men. Thanks so much for clearing that up.
Oh, and cost... What is another couple of milion right? It is not like we are forking over a hundred grand for a breaker because the manufacturer does not have a specific part we need, but we could run down to the Home Depot and pick up for a few bucks and cannot because of QA control. The whole supply system is wasteful so refitting a couple of boats for enlisted women who are going to be craptastic at their jobs and leave because of sexual harrassment, pregnancy, and mental health issues makes perfect sense.
Aweswome.
10/07/2011 5:03 PM
smells like tuna in here.
10/07/2011 5:59 PM
On my first boat as FTOW I used to make drink runs for the ship control team. The DOOW was a total dick and used to make me go back 2 or 3 times to get his coffee "just Right" of course being a chief and all he would pop the lid to the cup and see if any short hairs were floating on the top. So I spent an off-watch tying my pubes around a small washer and put it in his cup. He just kept drinking and hearing a rattle about half way done he fished out the washer. He was pissed and tried to write me up for it my chief just laughed and said don’t do that again.
10/07/2011 6:15 PM
I've said it before:
Put the crew (straight, gay, female, male, and anything else) in a room before the underway. Drop 'em. Leave no surprises. If the guys stare the gals can point and laugh. Take away all the mystery. Put the clothes back on and go to sea. Mixed berthing, mixed heads, one crew one screw. (No pun intended.) Get over it folks, we've all seen it before, and all that counts is doing the job. If you can't handle that don't join or get out now. Some boys and girls never join the service because they can't!
And...most of the EB Green and Grease Gags get even funnier if there are mixed genders involved.
Get over it, folks. It's the '90s.
10/07/2011 7:00 PM
Erica:
There's a lot more to the argument that it does not make fiscal sense to put women on submarines than whether or not they can do the job.
Anyone that's not a total misogynist can see that women can perform the submarine job equally as well as men (in all but very few circumstances). But we make do with physically weaker/fatter/older men and they still bring enough to the table to contribute.
However there are a few facts that IMO, completely blow out the submarine force's official reasoning for women on subs.
1) Sub force is shrinking and the population is growing, at least for the next 15-20 years or so => The idea that there are not enough men to MAN the submarines doesn't make sense.
2a) Defense spending is likely to go down somewhat, bringing more cost-cutting pressure across the entire DOD
2b) Female Nuke Officers stay in at about half the rate that male nuke officers stay in => You need more women at the bottom to man the higher ranks. The statistics are pretty similar for enlisted women.
2c) It costs roughly the same to give nuclear navy education to a woman as a man
2d) The highest cost in the navy (and thus presumably the sub force) is personnel cost.
2e) There is some cost associated with physical modification of a ship for women (though I am not aware how much).
=> Adding women to the Submarine Force will increase the cost of running submarines... in a time where the entire defense budget is likely either going down or slowing its rate of growth to less than inflation (effectively shrinking in purchasing power, even if total outlay is increasing).
2f) The current plan has women on subs plussed up over the men, in other words they are extra bodies, with extra cost.
Let's paint this another way. We are having a discussion about cutting back military retirement to curb personnel costs. In our infinite brilliance, the sub force is now knowingly increasing its personnel costs at a time when everybody else is worried about cutting theirs. That's the reason it doesn't make sense.
The only valid argument is some sort of fairness argument. I can appreciate that argument on its merits to some degree, but I don't agree with it enough to sway me into thinking it's a good idea. There is no argument for we *NEED* women to operate the sub force.
10/07/2011 7:46 PM
One last point, there is some research that indicates that some chemicals in submarine air potentially are harmful to unborn fetuses.
Someone will eventually get pregnant and spend some portion of their underway pregnant either because they are scared to mention it to anyone, or they just plain don't know.
This is potentially opening the Navy up to lawsuits for these children if they are borne with any kind of birth defects. While you can't sue the military for things that happen to you, the same stipulation does not prevent you from suing the Navy on behalf of your children.
On a side note... this would make a great episode of "I didn't know I was pregnant"... "So there I was changing Lube Oil Purifiers, and I just, you know, thought the macaroni triangles of death were giving me a bad stomach ache...".
10/07/2011 7:57 PM
Require IUDs before deploying. Train the med folk to replace the occasional one that gets ejected.
10/07/2011 8:16 PM
T-
You are one of the few people who have logically presented this argument without insulting women and automatically assuming that they will not do their jobs properly.
I understand your argument, and I will not disagree with you about the cost perspective.
It really stinks that there were extra billets created for the females, I think that this might be a test run to see how it works out, and I am wondering if this is going to be a short lived evolution. It feels like a set up to fail scheme.
I do not have it in me to fight the bitter sexual harrassment and pregnancy comments so I will just leave it at that.
10/07/2011 9:16 PM
Erica, just a couple of questions. How many 24 hour work days have you worked. How about 36 hours work days? 48 hour work days?
All of them with only normal meals and no sleep.
'nuff said.
hagar
10/07/2011 9:54 PM
She was a nuc on a carrier....'nuff said.
10/07/2011 10:23 PM
She was a nuc on a carrier....'nuff said.
Ummm, that's bush league compared to life on the boats where pretty much EVERY 3 section duty day is 40+ hours without sleep. That's not counting time at sea with zero sleep. At least be honest. Time on a carrier is like a freaking civilian job on rotating shift work.
10/07/2011 10:37 PM
I once spent 22hrs in the rack while standing every other day DOOW with a kickout!
Depending on your rate, life onboard a submarine is better than a civilian job...it's more being in the Chair Force!
10/07/2011 10:48 PM
Don't discredit me because my life was a little bit better then you sub guys who volunteered to work on a submarine. I will never understand why you volunteer just so you can brag about how hard your life was.
It does not even matter how many times I tell you that I have had the same amount of sleep deprivation when standing duty or getting off of a late watch just in time to eat breakfast, work a full day and then go back on watch before hitting my rack and praying that I don't get racked out because something breaks. You all will still continue to tell me how much harder life on a submarine is and that women still have no place on board because they cannot handle it, and then I will retaliate and someone else will make a comment that is insulting to try and get me worked up or to stop talking. Either way, I am ok with that because that is what I expect from a certain level of intellect.
It is like beating a dead horse and frankly I was enjoying the prank stories so much more.
10/08/2011 5:55 AM
"There is no argument for we *NEED* women to operate the sub force."
Hey, hey, hey...let's not forget that some of us have NEEDS that are larger than others. ;-)
Women on subs? I agree with T on all points made, but my bottom line is I say "bring it!"
Some bottom lines are quite attractive...and who wouldn't rather look at a woman's when you've been out to sea for 5-6 months?
And, apparently, the sub force has the (personnel, education & training) money to burn....right? So I say go with it. What's the worst thing that can happen? Some all-too-human DH, XO or CO gets fired?
Simple solution: hire even more women! ROFLMAO!
10/08/2011 10:32 AM
Remember the Batman movie in 1966? There was a submarine where we see Catwoman looking through the periscope. She looked really good with her ass arched out in black leather while trying to get a fixed position at PD. That is what will happen after about a 4 month deployment with women onboard. Someone is getting fucked one way or another. Women have needs just as much as we do.
10/08/2011 12:27 PM
A certain level of intellect?
Submariners are among the tops in the population. Maybe you're smarter than the average submariner? And I have no intention of insulting you. I quite simply think separate facilities are not necessary. There's no privacy on a submarine. None. That's the way it is. Male or female, if you've got a problem with it, then you're not fit to serve on one. Sorry. Folks that are allergic to milk aren't fit to serve on one either. Sorry. Necessary requirement to serve. Claustropobic? Not gonna work. Sub service isn't in the Bill of Rights. I think it's foolish to deny women the opportunity, but I think it's more foolish to build separate heads. Once again, get over it.
10/08/2011 12:48 PM
"...he went and told the CO that the nukes were bored and that they had better come up with something to occupy us." - Anon @ 10/06/2011 10:08 PM
Cheap solution for COs with bored nucs (juveniles with little knowledge of what the platform they push around does?): Operation Game for Nucs ages 19 to 29
10/08/2011 1:03 PM
So the Electricians are finishing a SSMG cleaning in port, and the EM1 tells the EM2 to get permission to clear tags while he closes it out. EM2 and another EM1 get together and one makes a 2MC "starting the Port SSMG" The other meggers the windings. EM1 still in the machine hears the 2MC, feels the tingle, and pisses himself getting out of the machine. He chases those other two around the ER for about an hour.
10/08/2011 1:21 PM
sjv, I think you misunderstood what I was getting at. I do not doubt the intelligence of most submariners. I like to think that I am right up there as well. My husband is a pretty smart guy and people tend to marry someone along the same level of intelligence.
I meant intellect as in a great debate, feasible arguments for both sides without comments such as "smells like tuna in here," and my all time favorite "pussy does not belong on submarines." That was classic by the way. That does nothing to contribute and makes me wonder why any woman would ever want to serve with someone who is so shallow prickish as that. I do not care if you think those thoughts, but keep them to yourself.
If you all really want to know, I have no desire to ever serve on submarines. Ever. I am not a fool, I do know that guys volunteer for submarine service so that they will not have to work with women, and I empathize with the fact that it is being taken away. I will however, defend the stereotypical comments that get made over and over again because for me, that is not a great argument. It is stereotyping and I like to think that I do not stereotype men into an all men are sexist pigs category.
I do not have a counter for the cost of money to refit the subs. I agree that refitting a submarine to allow for women to serve on board is a waste of money. To me it would make more sense to add seperate quarters on the blue print of a sub that has not had the keel laid yet. You know that sharing a haed for everyone will never work. In an ideal society, maybe but not in ours.
10/08/2011 2:00 PM
"I do not care if you think those thoughts, but keep them to yourself."
That comment alone tells me that you, and many millions of women, could never make it on subs. Can some? Sure. Should they? Hell no!
10/08/2011 3:12 PM
I am a sexist pig, serve on submarines, and think women have three basic roles in life: cook, sex and breed. However, can women do anything a man can do on submarine? Absolutely, without a doubt! But never forget you still have to fulfill your basic roles!
Welcome aboard women and I hope you do great things. Why you would ever want to be on a submarine to begin with is beyond me but stick to all the basic rules of the nub and you will be fine: keep your mouth shut, learn/study/learn, stay out of the rack, don't whine and get qualified.
One thing you will learn is that all submariners have opinions on everything, and unlike those who believe in the PC crap taught by the Navy, are not afraid to give them. If you don't like that or it hurts your feelings, then be gone. Everything is on the table (especially your dead mother or little sister) so if you are easily offended, be gone.
Good luck and welcome to the boat!
10/08/2011 4:26 PM
erica.r
There are related things you may not know, or historical facts to which you may accord little significance or credence. Some of the rest of us have known and also understand more of what is involved. It has no place on a military submarine.
10/08/2011 4:29 PM
Hey anon@312,
I guess rude comments being kept quiet from a group of adult men is too much to ask for?
Even though rude comments should be kept to yourself, if I hear or read them, I am going to do exactly what I have been doing and tell you to:
a)shove it
b)fire back a comment that is equally or more insulting
c)tell you to grow up. (this one is less likely than the other two)
I would not make it on a submarine because I do not have the inclination to serve on one nor do I have the need to prove that I can because some asshole does not think I can do it. I can handle snarky comments, and being taped up so I can be left to fend for myself. I was in the Navy as well, so sorry I was on a carrier that does not live up to your grand idea of work ethic. I am a woman after all, and did not have the option to go on a submarine in '98. If I did have that option, I would not have taken it because I am slightly claustrophobic and I know my limitations. It certainly would not be because I can't handle some rude comment.
I am, married to a submariner who likes to give me shit. Every. Single. Day. He has done that since the day we met, and I have knowm him for 13 years. Trust me when I say, he gets it thrown right back at him.
10/08/2011 4:57 PM
I do know that guys volunteer for submarine service so that they will not have to work with women, and I empathize with the fact that it is being taken away.
@erica, most of volunteered subs so we wouldn't have to serve with the bottom 90% that rides skimmers. And I thought TM's were stupid...
(FYI, the surface nukes are not part of the bottom 90%)
10/08/2011 5:33 PM
@erica r
Why is it that when women become involved in fields that have been traditionally male that it is the MEN who have to adapt?
Serious question.
10/08/2011 6:31 PM
610ET-
I cannot answer your question.
In all honesty, I did not want to be treated any differently; however, I felt like I had to work that much harder to prove that I was just like any other guy that was qualifying or qualified. I actually had a first class, who was in charge of our work center, think that myself or the other girls I qualified with, was going to have "relations" with him because he thought he was giving us the hook up on sigs for our qual cards. Funny thing is, we thought we were actually working hard and studying to get these checkouts. That flew really well with the other guys who were qualifying at the same time we were and created a lot of animosity through no fault of our own. It sucked.
For the record, I had no intentions of screwing my WCS, I was engaged and was (still am) completely faithful to my now husband, and that was certainly not the reputation that I wanted to have.
If I were going to be stationed on a submarine, I would go into it with the same mentality. I would not want to be treated differently, I know I would be the new variable in the equation so I would not want people to walk on egg shells around me for fear of offending, and I would want the opportunity to earn your respect the same way that you would earn mine. I would be so determined not to fail because I would never let my name be associated with a failed experiment.
That is how I would adapt, and I certainly hope that no one would go out of their way to make me miserable unless it is the in thing to do with regards to all nubs. It seems like common sense to me. I would never be so arrogant as to think that men have to adapt to me because I am a woman, and any woman who thinks that should be punched in the ovaries.
10/08/2011 7:40 PM
Why is it that when women become involved in fields that have been traditionally male that it is the MEN who have to adapt?
Radical feminism, aka: it's always the man's fault. Even just thinking about that case still pisses me off, not to mention the fact that that liar and her friends are still serving, as commissioned officers and if you do a search on the internet, all you see is his name, not hers.
Back on topic: midwatch in maneuvering, had an ELT who stood ERF and an MM1 who stood ERS...they'd always hang out together on watch. One of the other MMs in the section could draw some pretty decent looking gay porn. So he draws those two in a compromising position with the MM1 on top, and the drawing gets sent forward and plastered on a tube as the next tube days' picture. COB finds it and gets all spun up, but can't find anything out. MM1 rotates to shore when we pull in and takes the picture with him...
And because you're all curious, yes the artist himself was caught whacking it a few weeks earlier between the condensers while on watch.
10/08/2011 8:06 PM
Blending topics:
My crew on the MTS-635 had the first female nuc to come back through the pipeline once it reopened to women. She was an MM3 on the Lower Level path and did a great job with her quals (she got picked up for NECP, coming back as an Ensign just as I left the command). Since she qualified early, we got her to stand some LL watches as a Qualified Trainee. During one of those watches, I saw the Drill Coordinator staging a bucket of water near the voice tube in the middle of the ER. He jabbed the call button and I heard her voice: "ERLL" He promptly dumped the bucket down the tube before he had a chance to realize who had just been on the receiving end of the douche-job.
Horrified at the potential repercussions, we raced into LL, where we found her wearing a (now) completely transparent t-shirt. Double-plus ungood, but she was a good sport about it and just laughed it off.
10/08/2011 9:37 PM
I'd like to pee in her butt!
10/09/2011 6:46 AM
Anon @806
That case had nothing to do with feminism, and feminism has nothing to do with blaming the man. Feminism is about being equal to men on all aspects work with regards to pay, promotion, time off. It even affects women as far as reproductive rights are concerned and their roles inside the home. On that same aspect, I want to have the same salary, fair treatment, and everything else that goes with it because I earned it, especially when it is quite clear that I am the best person for that job. I do not want it because I am a woman, I am want to make that very clear.
I read about that case some last night and the accuser should have been kicked out as well, or he should have we allowed to stay. That is not a fair and just punishment for someone who was having consensual sex, and by blaming the man, it is a set back for women who are striving to work hard and take responsibility for their actions. She did the wrong thing.
Let's face it, just by reading some of the comments on this thread, some of you do not have the highest regard for women and do think that we are inferior. It is not an easy thing to be accepted into a community where no one wants you in the first place.
10/09/2011 7:56 AM
Let's face it, just by reading some of the comments on this thread, some of you do not have the highest regard for women and do think that we are inferior.
I don't think women are inferior. I do KNOW that they are weaker physically and are significantly more prone to reacting out of emotion. Does that mean that women can't serve on subs. No, but that doesn't change the fact that they still should not be allowed to serve on boats.
Let's face it, women on boats do not increase the warfighting capability. In fact, they detract from it because they take financial resources that will have to be spent to accommodate their presence. It's a waste of resources and is only being propagated because some chicks wish they had been born with dicks and some male politicians don't have enough sack to tell 'em, "No."
10/09/2011 9:31 AM
This blog is now giving us a very good preview of life on the boats circa 2016.
A thread about the disgusting things submariners do to each other at sea became an argument about gender roles in the military.
Personal opinion - maybe with actual females aboard, some of the men will stop acting like such little bitches all the time.
10/09/2011 10:03 AM
I honestly don't think that there are women pushing for inclusion on subs. I've been following it closely, and there are not a lot of prominent female voices commenting on this. There are no "female Inclusion activists" or anything like that. There's no midshipmen marching in the streets, etc. I honestly women, writ large are mostly 1) unaware and 2) don't really care about the integration of women onto submarine crews.
IMO, this is a political stunt by Politicians and Admirals. Roughead is calmly stroking his short hairs about being the CNO who "made history" by opening submarine service for women. Ditto for Bruner, Obama, Mabus, etc.
This is pure political maneuvering, there is no other reason for it. Period.
10/09/2011 10:16 AM
Anon @ 10:13
Subs aren't really like this any more. Most of these guys are 40-60 years old (my guesstimation based on reading this blog for 5 years), so these are mostly old pranks that one hears about but have mostly been gone for the better part of 10 years.
There are still a lot of pranks but they are a lot more low key, and the Navy is a lot more willing to bust people down in rank for pranks.
10/09/2011 10:19 AM
Why the hell does this Erica bitch turn anything into a discussion on feminism? Can we ban her? Why does a woman from the skimmer fleet have any business on a submarine blog?
10/09/2011 11:21 AM
anon @1121 - you're truly pathetic. There've been some astute points made about the politics and that warfighting will not be improved, any - though women are certainly capable of competently serving on submarines. My time on boats (active, anyway) was 25 years ago, and I'm glad that I have no stories approaching these either, though it was definitely looser than it is now. I think we had it about right on my two boats. I'm torn on women on subs - I think there is a fundamental unfairness in that qualified, motivated women were not able to experience the submarine experience, but practical warfighting considerations are an issue. Most of us have memories of our own, where we were truly at risk in a way that skimmers will never be aware. Those moments, and especially the moments immediately preceding them, are not the time for potential complication because of the innate human tendency to be distracted by sexual chemistry in both subtle, and of the outright grab-assing variety. Look back at the causes of the Hartford incident in the SOH, and note the potential results of not being 100% focused when the tactical situation required it. I for one, welcome Erica's presence on the board, and she doesn't strike me as a militant feminist - I suggest that making broad generalizations is a pretty effective way of drawing some ugly responses.
10/09/2011 1:25 PM
MarkMM1(SS)
Thank you, I had a pretty good, albeit ugly, response that I think was deleted, or it did not go through so I appreciate your comment.
Anon@1121-
You are out of line. For the record, I was not the first person to mention women on submarines. That honor goes to some other anonymous person who posted a link to a Time magazine article.
I have been reading this blog for several years and pointed it out to my husband who is a submariner. In fact he is on his second submarine, and I started reading when he was on patrol with his first boat. I read because he cannot tell me what he is doing when he is out to sea, and I use the links here and from other news worthy outrlets to keep up on current events. I value my husband's life and I worry about him staying safe every time he leaves because I do not know what he is doing. I can handle the long hours, the sporadic emails, the phone calls every so often, but not knowing what he does is really hard for me.
I was also a nuke electrician so I like to surround myself with people who can hold an intelligent conversation. I get tired of talking all things house and children so it is nice to have a break and think outside the box. My best friend was a nuke as well, but as far as the other wives associated with my husband's boat, I am the only one who was actually in the Navy and has a clue as to what goes on in the engine room and it sucks.
I know full good and well, that I may not be welcome, but there is no need for your behavior. I understand the intent of sarcasm and dry humor, and this is not one of these instances. It is degrading and to me, it is certainly not funny.
10/09/2011 1:50 PM
"I get tired of talking all things house and children...."
But that is your job! When women started breaking from these traditional roles is when we started seeing the breakdown of American soceity. Look at Japan and they are just starting to face the same issues.
Can you do the job on a submarine? Sure you can, it's not rocket science. But whether you realize it or not, rasing future Americans is a pretty important role and it can only be done by mother and fathers (married, for those who don't realize it) dedicated to the task.
Keeping the big picture in mind, submarines and the people who aerve on them (myself included) are fairly insignificant compared to and entire soceity.
We need mothers doing only what they can do. Thank you for doing the hard job while we sit out there and piddle around!
10/09/2011 2:59 PM
Back in the day, radiomen and yeomen could give the sonarmen a run for their money any day on the DADT issue.
10/09/2011 6:08 PM
Mark--well said. I too hit my first boat 25 years ago and do have pro and con feelings regarding the inclusion of women on submarines as part of the crew.
Pro--never been a question of whether or not women could do the job, and if there was, the issue has long since been put to rest.
Con--medical issues (previously discussed) and a dual issue of camraderie/discipline. Submarining is a hideously stressful job. I've had shipmates commit suicide while on watch. Anything and everything is fair game. Take that away, and what have you done? You now have created the pump versus filter effect where the question remains if that person is REALLY capable of handling the stress when the shit hits the fan, or you'll have your name on a memorial somewhere next to the Scorpion and Thresher.
You also have an issue as to discipline--more alcohol-related incidents, etc. Less of the guys (and gals) looking out for each other. I hate to use my tender experience as a guide, but if accurate it wouldn't bode well for the boats. Too much distraction and cost with too little benefit gained.
But if someone is hell-bent on putting women on submarines, best to do it this way than simply go up to any random fast attack with 30 women and tell the CO/XO/COB, "Make it happen."
And to anon @ 11:21, let me say this in the nicest possible way: Please go eat a fat bag of dicks.
10/09/2011 6:27 PM
Speaking of a fat bag of dicks, how about the flashlight game in control while rigged for black. Ask for a flashlight and it might be skin covered!
We had a ET2 that duct taped a gray navy flashlight to his johnson (yes, he was that big!) and ask people to hold it for him.
Rigging for black. The QMOW announces "rigging control for black" and there is always the response "hide your wallets" or "my mother is ready to receive". Always gets a chuckle from the black guys on watch.
Can't wait for the split-tails to arrive!
10/09/2011 7:15 PM
Some of the pranks are funny, and playing grabass with a homophobic nub is funny, but a lot of the "old school" pranks are just downright disturbing. Never did care for it much, and I normally avoided it. I liked my job, but there are too many high strung crew members and many of them have a borderline sadistic streak.
My biggest issue is, what happens when you are getting ready for deployment and a number of women get pregnant? It happens on surface ships. Sure, we can draw from other boats in the squadron, but they become a man down, and on fast attacks we just don't have the manpower for this trickle effect. As far as berthing issues, people will get over it. Stuff happens on surface ships, so I am sure it will happen on subs as well. There are many issues that need resolving, but last I checked they are starting with female officers on boomers first. Lets see how it works before we all start bitching. We just really need to get over ourselves. It is called progress.
Before you go slamming me, I spent plenty of time on a fast attack. I just like to think differently.
10/09/2011 7:33 PM
" ...but there are too many high strung crew members and many of them have a borderline sadistic streak."
You act like that's a bad thing?!
10/09/2011 7:47 PM
Anon@259
I love being a mom most days, and I understand the importance of raising my children to be productive worthwhile members of society, but I do not want to be defined by that role. I am capable of doing so much more than that.
10/10/2011 6:33 AM
Great post, I enjoyed ready reading it, Keep posting good stuff like this.
10/18/2011 9:31 AM
ENG,
On the 22 boat in our section ERLL watch relieved late constantly. The worst part was when the guy was late he'd eat and take a shower like it wasn't his fault that the messenger didn't try hard enough to wake him.
We balled out the oncoming guys repeatedly, and it got better.
One day we we're eating off-going and noticed that our ERML was not there. We called back and his relief still hadn't shown up. We checked berthing and the oncoming guy was still sleeping. Three of us put on Anti-Cs and EABs and found battle lanterns. We shut off all of the lights in his berthing. We ripped back his rack curtain and shouted, "We've got a live one here." He was never late again.
10/21/2011 6:08 PM
The episode predates chiefdom.
11/10/2011 10:54 AM
Oh Nice Information i really like it.. Syntol
11/29/2011 5:08 AM
My favorite is sending NUBs to find bottles of A1R. The greatest time was when we sent one to ask the SRW to help him look for it. Best part was the dumb mechanic didn't even recognize we were messing with him too and spent an hour looking for some with the NUB
MM2(SS) ELT type
1/28/2012 2:31 AM
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