Keeping the blogosphere posted on the goings on of the world of submarines since late 2004... and mocking and belittling general foolishness wherever it may be found. Idaho's first and foremost submarine blog. (If you don't like something on this blog, please E-mail me; don't call me at home.)

Wednesday, January 25, 2012

"Paperwork To Follow..."

A reader writes:
Joel, have you ever done a post on your "favorite" PM, maintenance or "fix" done on the Boat?
I'm sure we have, but can't remember exactly when, so it was probably a while back. The E-mail got me thinking about the most memorable "midnight maintenance" that I was involved in as a JO, but everything I thought about had too much NNPI to share here. As Engineer, of course, my job was to decide when to trust my guys to do the right thing and choose to work on paperwork in my stateroom during the critical repair efforts rather than monitoring on scene.

What are your favorite stories of submarine maintenance that maybe you wouldn't have wanted surveilled by ORSE or TRE?


Anonymous Anonymous said...

During ORSE on the NYC, my job was to take protable air samples in the engine room. The standard call to DC Central was "Portable air samples taken in engine room upper level (for instance) are less than 10 to the minus 9th micro-micro curies per milliliter". But during a drill, I was tasked to take air samples with a draeger and someone else took the sample I usually took. His response was a tongue-tied "Air samples taken in ERUL is less than the limit." We got hit for that, but later, it became the acceptable response as long as you could elucidate the actual reading. Later I became a member of EMAT. That was actually fun.

Go figure.

1/25/2012 3:20 PM

Blogger Ret ANAV said...

Remember CO on KAM coming on the 1MC congratulating LTJG XXX and MM2 XXX, with the assistance of "Petty Officer's 'J' and 'B'" (as in JB Weld) for fixing the 10K that had been down for DAYS (Normal for that boat!)

Last boat: Tapping my foot impatiently waiting for the SSEP bubbas to finish AIS install and leave. 30 seconds after they left, I tore into it to run the interface to my RAYMARINE Chartplotter/Radar display. Underway the next morning, Nav starts asking questions. My response was the typical "Ask me no questions, I'll tell you no lies".

1/25/2012 3:26 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

The dreaded "Mare Island Coolant Sample." Everyone knew to stay away. Fine with the ELT's.

1/25/2012 4:01 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Weekend 1--take out ASW pump for sister boat, install blanks, and hydro. Go to sea for a week to do ORSE workup drills with one side of the engineroom. First evolution is deep deep to check blanks. No problems noted.

Weekend 2--pull back in, remove blanks, reinstall ASW pump, and hydro. During the reinstall, several gage lines were EB-Greened while the pump was aligned and hooked up. Go to sea for a week of ORSE workup drills with both sides of the engineroom. First evolution is deep dive to check reinstall. No problems noted.

Weekend 3--pull in close enough to pick up ORSE Board, conduct ORSE. No problems with ASW system noted by ORSE Board.

Immediately after ORSE, one of my M-DIVers informs me that one of the gage lines is still EB-Greened. Oops, glad the ORSE Board didn't find that. Also glad that EB-Green held to test depth in that case, but wouldn't want to have to rely on it again.

1/25/2012 4:45 PM

Anonymous Stsc said...

Favorite PM: cleaning comps on the mid watch in SES. I would open the cabinet doors with my dogtag instead of a stubby flathead. Forgot about that until I was dinged by a JO during it while monitored It was a nice peaceful PM and a break from the watch.

Fixing the BQR-22 on station in front of the watch section with no safety controls or tags with the tacit understanding of the CO was probably one of the most gratifying repairs I've done.

1/25/2012 4:54 PM

Anonymous lethcoeb said...

Too much NNPI, but we had to remove XXXX in the RC because of a failure and it was stuck. Had to get dispensation from up high on a once in history previously used (hence approved) procedure to pull XXXX and unstick it.

As ENG I reviewed the procedure, made sure everything was set up ok, then went to do paperwork while RC division pulled XXXX and unstuck it.

Best use of my time in that situation, methinks...

1/25/2012 5:29 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Glad ORSE was not there!

Dropped a lead while doing trip and cals on the P&A and caused a cutback.

RC Div was EOOW and asked me WTF? I told him. He said "OK" and that was the end.

ORSE was there...

I was EWS and was standing in front of the MFP panel in AMSLL because of some real problem. The ORSE team started a "big leak in the starboard feed line near the bulk head stop" drill. No comment from the monitors at the time but later the Eng came back beaming giving everyone atta-boys! (This is an easy drill to screw up - 'nuff said.)

Old Chief from the dark ages

1/25/2012 6:01 PM

Blogger SJV said...

No boat stories, but a buddy of mine put a hole in his oilpan, had the car towed to the house, but wanted to move it into the garage after the tow truck left. He had his wife chew up a big wad of bubble gum, then duct taped it to the oilpan and covered it with duct tape. Filled it back up with oil, drove the car into the garage where it now sits waiting for a new oilpan.

1/25/2012 7:16 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Most pain ever was when a metal fiber brush exploded on the SSMG, which fried all kinds of random stuff in the regulator cabinet.

That was two months of hell while we and PSNS tried to get it running again.

Several months later the word comes from on high to go back to carbon brushes.

1/25/2012 7:38 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

So there we were in the Arctic onboard HAWKBILL (I was MPA), and our 8KGPD was starting to crap the bed - low vacuum. For at least a couple of weeks, we followed trends, wondered if we had fouling, wondered if we had sucked a jellyfish into the evaporator, just generally wondered what had happened, but still the vacuum lowered.

Finally one day, it up and quit working about 500 miles from the pole (or about 6000 miles from anywhere we could get it fixed). We dug into it and found out that the nozzle for the air ejector was completely corroded and would no longer eject air. Called the Chop...and the answer - not carried onboard...crap!

We called a meeting in the ER to see what we could do, and asked one of our "machine tool operator" types (let's call him MM1 Moody) what he thought. He said, "I need epoxy, a wire brush, 24 hours, and everyone out of my engineroom."

[fast forward 24 hours]

So we installed the new AE nozzle that Moody fashioned out of epoxy, fired up the 8K, and BAM - max vacuum, evaporator's running sending water forward. It was awesome!

From then on we referred to epoxy as "Moody Glue."

Like I said, we were a couple days transit from the North Pole when all this went down, and we had a scheduled surfacing. The ENG told me to get a NAM ready, the CO had something special planned. I wrote up the NAM, and got it routed, and when we surfaced, the POD had quarters on the pier scheduled. So the crew (minus watchstanders) came to formation on the ice while the skipper presented Moody with his NAM.

One of my favorite submarine memories.

1/25/2012 8:29 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Love it when the MPA says, “We dug into it”. Funny.

1/25/2012 9:50 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ever used a come-along in a drape? That was some shady shit. As far as midnight maintenance goes, never did anything too crazy, but while on shift-work I did help cause an incident report.

1/25/2012 10:19 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Early 90's, fleet problems with K-relays in the EOGs and supply is flooded with the shit relays. Blocked over 90 minutes while troubleshooting relays and replacing. Unblocked it, performed a restart and right back up to 1050 amps and gas remained in spec.
My favorite statement from the ENG was always "Chief, just get it done". That was an open ticket.


1/25/2012 10:24 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

While at sea, we experienced a rather unusual, non-emergency condition that curtailed the use of our potable water supply (no coffee, either of course) for a few days.

During this time we received an urgent call for enlisted nuc volunteers to assist an older SSN in repairing a more pressing problem she was having.

Seems that the repairs were exhausting the second SSN's crew due to ambient temperatures of 125 degs. in a compartment that was normally comfortable. Never heard another word about their breakdown from a soul on either crew.

Sure was nice to have potable water underway again, however.


1/25/2012 10:30 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Days before deploying, Periscope replacement/install. After 2000, periscope shop is replacing the seals, etc. I am on duty watching this. The last ring is installed and the QA paperwork is reviewed and signed off, while cleaning up the mess on the chart table... an extra part/ring (always a comforting sign) is found. QA paperwork checked again.. yup, job done by paperwork, extra parts suggest otherwise. I tell them, go get a complete new set of parts and try again. Needless to say i did not sleep well during the deep dive. However, at least the paperwork was ORSE ready!

1/26/2012 5:39 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

During our '73 overhaul,one of our Worthington HPACs was replaced with a "magic" Ingersoll Rand HPAC. Just push the START button and it ran unattended until it shut itself down when the air pressure set point was reached.

While on shakedown in Charleston, it was necessary to replace a head gasket on the IR HPAC and we didn't have any. Since this HPAC provided "nuclear air", the replacement parts went through the nuclear certification program and since this was the first IR HPAC in the submarine fleet, the Navy supply system didn't have any in the pipeline.

So, as duty driver, I took the M-Div LPO over to the one of the supply center facilities to get the needed nuclear certified gasket. We were directed through the maze to the work bench of the "nuclear gasket inspector". We told him what we needed and watched while he systematically unwrapped, visually inspected, miked every gasket in the stack, and then rejected them all for whatever reasons, including wrapping paper defects.

As he was leaving for lunch, we asked him what they did with the rejects. He told us that they went to the non-nuclear fleet.

So...when he had dutifully locked the cage around his inspection bench and was out of sight, we fished a half dozen "bench spares" out of the reject pile and left.

M-Div installed one of the "bench spares" in the HPAC, and it ran uneventfully for the next three years until I left. For all I know, it ran uneventfully until the ship was scrapped in"96.


1/26/2012 6:25 AM

Anonymous HMCM(SS) Retired said...

So... "Moody Glue" huh? Guess that couldn't be found in the Atmosphere Control Manual for identification could it?

1/26/2012 6:42 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was the off-going EOOW and passing through the tunnel of a 637. This was prior to any valve by valve control. Saw that the PST Expansion Tank level was a little low, so I operated the two valves to raise level. (plan was to let maneuvering know afterwards). CO walked into the tunnel at just that moment. Still missing that piece of my ass!

1/26/2012 7:11 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Watching my LPO and Lead First blowing out a 300KW MG set with 700# air. Got the megger readings up, but not sure how much insulation they blew out with the carbon dust. Boat lasted another 10 years after I left but never heard if they needed to change out an MG.

1/26/2012 7:27 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I do remember one routine maintenance job where between my division chief and I we had most if not all of the signatures on the cover page!

The package originated from A-gang so he signed it as the Chief. I signed it as the DCA. I then signed it as the QAO. We both happened to be on watch when the package was worked on so he signed it as the Duty Chief and I signed it as the Ships Duty Officer. The completed package then got reviewed and he signed the review as the Division Chief and I signed the review as the DCA. I then made the final review signature as the QAO.


I used to have a photocpy of the cover page where I had highlighted all of our signatures - it looked like we were blazing sigs on this work package!!

1/26/2012 7:55 AM

Anonymous Jay the Nuk said...

So, back in the day on the 633, had a MFP discharge gage go tits up. As the RPPO researched a replacement in the QCOSAL system and found out no replacement gage existed. Old gage wasn't made anymore and they hadn't qualified a replacement. So, off I go looking at any and all gages that meet the discharge feed pressure ranges. After about a week I found one in the system that I thought would work so I ordered, received it, discussed with several "people", and we decided it would "work", so lets install it.

Now the fun part, had the wrong type of connector, so we couldn't hook it up to the gage line. So, I research what needed to be done and determined we would need to make a small piece of gage line with appropriate connector types on the end, but it needed to be welded and then hydroed. So, I've got an unapproved gage, unapproved connector line rig that needs to be welded, and no way on the boat to hydro.

So, what to do??? I know, lets see if the SH workers could help us out on the hydro "thing". Off I go and determine which guy is our guy, explain my situation, ask him for help (unoffically). Ask what it would take to get this thing welded and hydroed. He states a box of Hot Chocolate should do the trick, can I give him a few days. Absolutely I say.

So, could back a few days later and casully walk up to him and say, "Hey, I think I left my hydro connection rig here, you seen it"?

He says "I was wondering what that thing was, and yes, here it is". I say "Man my Chief was pissed when I told him I lost it, thanks for keeping it safe, here is a box of Hot Choc as a thank you for saving my butt".

Once I got it to the boat, I informed some "people" that the new "hydro rig" was available, could I hook it up to test it? Sure they say. So install, of course with no paperwork.

Once we steam the plant pierside, I just happened to be standing the AMR2LL wath, Eng in EOOW. After about of hour of normal ops I call Manevr to speak to the Eng.

Me: Eng, the other RPPO passed on to me that the #x MFP discharge gage was acting funny on the last run, could I get your permission to start said pump to look at the gage, see if he gave me bogus info?

ENG: You have my permission to request this.

ME: Thank you Sir.

So, I request permission and after running the pump for about half an hour with no leaks, decide to declare vistory.

ME: MANUVR, AMR2LL, Reporting that I got bogus info on the discharge gage problem. This gage is working fine.

ENG: Roger, return to normal feed pump lineup.

1/26/2012 8:30 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

SSN700 some time ago. At sea submerged at some depth. 10K not running right. I wanted to get it tagged out and check the basket for leaks. CO happens by and I tell him I intend to check the basket. He asks, can you open the door and check?....:..ah...yes. Cut to the end.......MLCPO and CO standing aft of 10K with door open and ERUL walks by taking logs, shaking head and making notes in his lttle green book. Fun times.

1/26/2012 8:57 AM

Anonymous NHSparky said...

A cautionary tale regarding RC-Div maintenance. We had just hit DD1 in PHNSY on Buffalo for DMP in 1991. Houston was about 6-7 months ahead of us. We were getting crushed with maintenance, unplanned losses, etc., along with all the other usual shipyard BS, when we heard what happened on the Houston.

Long story short--RO logs showed they did Rod Control C&I in less than 20 minutes. NRRO looked at this and said, "Oh, really? Let's look a little deeper, shall we?"

Lots of people went away off that boat. The stupid really were punished, and a whole lot of smart people too.

1/26/2012 10:38 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Eng was leaving one day when I had duty, pointed to the periscope control, and said, "That's leaking." I replied, "Someone probably pulled an O-ring out from a kit and didn't use the right series ring." (It was a boss fitting- 900 series not found in kits) Eng then said, "Sure would be nice if it weren't leaking when I come in tomorrow." Me- "Well, it's SUBSAFE, requires lots of paperwork." He repeated, "Sure would be nice if it weren't leaking when I come in tomorrow."

It wasn't, and nothing was ever said about it. Nothing shoret of a miracle...

1/26/2012 3:43 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

End of the working day, doing a final QA check on a tender job. Seawater flange, large, lots of bolts, and you worked on the back side by feel because it wasn't possible to get a body or just a head there. Reached around back, grabbed a bolt at random- and jiggled it up and down. Oops... All the others didn't do that. Called the shop on the tender, and asked if PO3 Smith and FN Jones were there. They were in berthing, getting ready for liberty call. The PO on the phone was their LPO. Told him PO3 Smith and FN Jones wanted to come down to the boat and see me before they left. He said, "They want to come down?" to which I answered, "Trust me- they REALLY want to see me before they leave." He didn't ask why. 5 minutes later, they were seeing me. When they asked what was going on, I told them to feel around the bolt flange. After they felt the loose bolt, thought I was looking at ghosts. Threw them the paperwork and said I was going to eat, and to come get me when the job was properly completed.

Probably wasn't the "right" thing to do, but I'll wager neither of them ever again in their career screwed up a SUBSAFE or Level 1 procedure. Which is what we should all want.

Remember being told in A school in the dark ages (1973) that all the paperwork in the world cannot keep people from screwing up their job- that true safety involves conscientious people knowing their jobs and their jobs right because they want to. The instructor went on to talk about brass bolts in steam systems, and said about every 10 years, people are reminded that brass bolts cannot be used on steam when someone dies because they have been used. Sure enough, he was right- about every ten years during my career it happened; and each time there was another layer of paperwork certifying that they had not been used.

1/26/2012 4:07 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Getting ready to get underway when we find a leak a flange off of the main steam header. It would require single valve by the main steam stop to fix.

The Eng is standing there looking at it and swearing up a storm. There was no way the CO was gonna authorize it to be fixed like that and the paperwork alone was going to take HOURS to write up and get authorized. Not to meantion we would have to shutdown/cooldown and miss the underway.

FTN (Fred the nuke) just looks at him and asks if he had reviewed all the pre-underway paperwork that was up in the the log room.

We got met with a blank look for a sec, and then he looks at all of us M-DIV'ers. I have the new gasket in my hand (I was RPPO), and 3 others had tools out.

He just nods his head and tells the EOOW (who was the MPA) that he was going forward to review paperwork.

We shut down half the engineroom, went single valve, and pulled a vacuum on the isolated steam header in case there was any leakage past the one valve. No tagouts at all. Just people standing at the critical valves maing sure that NOBODY opened them by accident.

Twenty minutes later, we are putting steam back in the header and restarting the half we shut down.

The Eng then comes back and bitches that RC-DIV filled out something stupidly wrong and asked if they were trying to get him fired.

No other comment was ever made.

1/26/2012 5:28 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Had a problem with BQR-19. Manufacturers reps worked all day, and the problem kept moving around but couldn't be fixed. When reps went on the beach, I fixed it. Got CO's commendation. Reps didn't like me. But offered me a job when my enlistment was up.
the Duke of Earl

1/26/2012 6:01 PM

Anonymous MentalJim said...

How about surfacing through the ice several days after losing depth control and unintentionally ice picking ourselves, to find the fairing for the under ice sonar smashed to pieces (among other damage to the sail) and after some head scratching of ways we could regain our under ice sonar functionality while way above the Arctic circle, the solution was put in the hands of A-gang. Ended up with a TDU can band-it strapped to the front of the sail. It didn't really work all that well since a good portion of the transducers in the array were flooded, but it was good enough (our boat's unofficial motto) to get us back to Bergen for a few days of unplanned liberty. Since our only GPS antenna was sheared off the BRA-34 when we hit the ice, we had to surface, man the bridge, get a fix with the handheld GPS, call the fix down to control and it was manually entered into SINS. This was an eventful underway and I left out the part about how one plucky ICman came up with the McGuiveresque plan to remove a power supply from the bomb to use as a temporary power supply hot-wired into the BCP to get our depth control system working again.

After all was said and done, and the tiger team declared our under ice sonar broken beyond repair, we ended up heading south, and went through the Panama Canal after a BSP in Rosie Roads to offload the ice pilot and pick up charts. Transiting the canal without a proper stern light (real one removed for under ice ops)(had a rinky dink thing on the bridge) and a jury rigged running light (damaged from the ice inpact - door wouldn't open on port side). We ended up having a steam leak that put us on a single main engine off baja and we limped up to PSNY. The other 3 boats I was on after that one were way less eventful.

1/26/2012 7:58 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

On the 692 during a Subic upkeep, idiot broke CL-2 valve stem in a vice. NSSF makes new stem per sample, not per ND plan. Seems the material to make this ND part is in vary limited quanity. The 'per sample' part is 1 11/64" shorter than the ND plan requires. NSSF supervisor says we can not have the new 'per sample' part as he will not violate the ND requirement. My Charlie Oscar takes me to the shop where the new valve stem in chucked up in a lathe finishing up. My CO and the NSSF guy get in to a chest pecking contest about who will call the most senior officer that will or will not allow a deviation to plan. My CO tells me as he is leaving the shop that if it looks like they will not give me the part that I am to forcably take it and run for the ship. I have this image of me, knocking a bunch of 'Flips' on thier asses as I run like Gale Sayers to the boat. As it turns out they gave me the part and I installed it. It rained so hard that while I ran the hydro pump from the pier, I couldn't see the ship. I guess the hydro passed. Atleast I signed it off any way..

1/26/2012 11:21 PM

Blogger Mike Mulligan said...

And that is why our nuclear industry is in so much trouble today?

1/27/2012 5:58 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rebrushing the TG while sitting on the bottom. Thank God for the battery and a good RFRE.

1/27/2012 6:44 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

@Mike Mulligan

Couldn’t qual huh? TSSBP

1/27/2012 7:25 AM

Blogger Mike Mulligan said...

Not after the letter to governor who came running for a visit to the plant pissing her pants.

We rebrushed and regrinded the commutators on all the propulsion generators and main motor right off the coast of a very unfriendly country during the cold war. We were on the fucking outboard and at periscope depth for 2 days. You should have been their for the fire works of that electrical explosion. I doubt we had the brushes if it happened again.

1/27/2012 9:39 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Inspecting the dental couplings in the reduction gears and having to change out the allen head bolts as part of the PM. Note to self, never use a 1/4 inch drive to torque to 150ft-lbs. Hearing a loud 'tink' with your hands in the gears is not a good thing.

All parts recovered satisfactorily.

1/27/2012 12:35 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anytime the 'calibrated arm' method of applying torque was used.

1/27/2012 12:35 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Try walking around the corner to see Eng with a cut off broom handle and a hammer with an open Red gear. Reversed and shook my head before cautioning shipmates that there were things they didn't want to see there.

1/27/2012 12:56 PM

Anonymous Dardar the Submarian said...

BPS-11 Radar kept blowin' 20 amp fuses. Couldn't find the problem.

The first class stationed me (first patrol newbie) in Ops lower level at the power supply, and the second class in middle level.

A 50 amp fuse narrowed down the problem.

Ah, the good ol' days.

1/27/2012 1:03 PM

Blogger Gospace said...

In this vein- sort of. Went through an ORSE with a rosary hanging prominently on the front of both EOG's.

After the first watchstander told him a flat out "no" when he asked for them to be removed, he went to the the other three operators and hinted that maybe they should disappear before ORSE. Wanted to avoid a DDO by actually ordering them down.

They stayed. The whole story is really long...

1/27/2012 6:13 PM

Blogger Gospace said...

Left out- the XO was he-

I have long since come to the conclusion that it is not possible to proofread your own writing and find errors. Easy to do for others, though.

1/27/2012 6:46 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

HEY JOEL!!!!! It's about time for the Flag Rumor List to be released - start a new topic on it and I'll tell you who I think will be the next submarine one stars.

1/27/2012 8:01 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Before I took over as MPA the outgoing guy told me the story of our MMC convincing him to repack one of the SG blow down valves while critical on the backstop without permission.

1/27/2012 9:12 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Harold, a rosary? We put some chicken leg bones in the ultrasonic sink, wired 2 of them together with lockwire to make a cross, and then added a clove of garlic sprayed with DI water. The EOG's name was Sybil, we hung the contraption on CB-1. That EOG had a normal start up fee of about 30K.
She ran fine until the ENG ordered us to take it off and then the fun began again.


1/27/2012 9:32 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

@Mike Mulligan

What actually is periscope depth in your bath tub?

Does mommy know that you are playing on the computer and not doing homework?

1/27/2012 9:40 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Fixing an annoying primary shield water tank leak in the tunnel. That boat must have been decommed with hundreds of yards of teflon tape and loc-tite where it wasn't supposed to be, lol...good times!

1/28/2012 9:13 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

the chicken bone cross was on the good ship FLORIDA was it not?

1/28/2012 1:45 PM

Blogger SJV said...

So... the job of the Officer is to know when to look the other way so that if something goes wrong he has plausible deniability and won't ruin his career? But if things go right he can take the credit of keeping on station or getting underway on time? If the risk is justified by the tactical situation, fine. We all buy into that risk when we volunteer for subs. But stay involved and help make sure things are done as safely as they can be, don't hide until it's over.

1/28/2012 2:30 PM

Anonymous Anon E. Moose said...

This is not who the Submarine Force is, and these actions should not be glorified here, or repeated in the Fleet.

It took two long years to stop sailors on my boat from making these high risk decision at the E-4/5/6 level and push them back up to the O-4/O-5 where they belong.

I know I'll get some 'holier than thou' criticism, but here's the lesson: My Sailors knew they could bring me OPTIONS. Emergent work that was critical to the mission sometimes was executed with creative solutions. Self-cannibalize, yep. Substitute parts, yep. Work without a CWP, yep. Hand-make parts, yep

The ship sailed (no FTSs during my tour as Eng), and the Sailors didn't have to put their crow on the line for an officer or the ship's reputation.

My message to our junior submarine officers and enlisted reading this blog: Short-cutting maintenance is not our Submarine heritage. Do not imitate the actions that were condoned in the past today.

Enlisted: continue to be the system and technical experts who know the boat inside and out. Fix it right or make recommendations to the Skipper to keep her sailing.

JOs: Have the moral fortitude to say 'No' to working outside the lifelines. Earn the trust of your Sailors, encourage them to bring you the smart, unique solutions that will keep you in the fight.

1/28/2012 3:02 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Whoa, Anon E. Moose! Don't fall off that high horse.

Do the job correctly, yes. Absolutely. But the accompanying 6 inch stack of paperwork to replace a subsafe "O" ring in a hydraulic fitting is why midnight maintenance gets done. Safely.

That periscope fitting mentioned earlier? It had been leaking ever since work had been done on the periscope by IMA personnel. With all the accompanying paperwork showing it ewas done correctly with the right parts.

As soon as I removed it, I could visually see it didn't match the size of the correct "O" ring I was replacing it with. Had a rather nice cut in it from being oversized.

Know your job. Do it right. It will keep you safer than any amount of paperwork saying the job was done right will ever do.

Refer to anonymous @ 1/26/2012 5:39 AM

and anonymous @ 1/26/2012 4:07 PM

for other examples.

Paperwork is a CYA operation, nothing more, nothing less. I knew what size "O" ring to use because I took the time once to read a Parker tech manual devoted enitely to- "O" rings and gaskets. If you have never read one, you wouldn't believe how much there is to actually know about them. The subject is briefly, very briefly, touched upon in Navy technical schools.

1/28/2012 3:35 PM

Blogger SJV said...

Paperwork is just a tool used to help make sure humans don't make mistakes. Like installing the wrong O ring. It's only as good as those of us who stand on the line make it. Kudos to AE Moose here for building the culture that allowed issues to be brought into the light and dealt with so that operational commitments that justified the risk could be satisfied, and then fixed at the earliest opportunity. There's no shame in saying that the O-4+ level is the right place to determine if the risk justifies the action, or if the boat just needs to stay in port. The problem with midnight maintenance is that it's hard to track and explain why you need to take the gear down again when you get the right parts. And sometimes the guys that did it forget or leave the boat. Officers and chiefs who turn the other way need to man up.

1/28/2012 4:12 PM

Blogger Gospace said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

1/28/2012 4:39 PM

Blogger SJV said...

And don't get me wrong. I'm proud of the officers and enlisted men I served with, and who continue to serve now. And at no time did I feel like anything we did was unsafe. The high standards that we set for ourselves, and the fact that we knew our lives were on the line helped make sure of that. It just makes me sick when someone suggests that the right thing for an officer to do is to look the other way while "midnight maintenance" is undertaken.

1/28/2012 4:57 PM

Anonymous Anon E. Moose said...

@Anon 3:35PM

I got up on this 'high horse' when, as a JO, midnight maintenance cost us more underways than it saved.

BTW, if you feel that a repair is so urgent you can't do the paperwork, we have a method for that in the JFFM (Vol V,

I don't want a junior sailor risking my life to save a CODT underway. But, I will entertain creative solutions to keep us on station.

I'm not perfect, but I can support the practices and ethos that try to get us there.

(I grandfather in all of the Old Salts who did this sort of stuff when our culture was different. I don't want to see our guys doing it these days.)

1/28/2012 4:59 PM

Blogger Bubblehead said...

Deleted several spamments and fixed a typo.
In response to the valid point raised by anon e. moose, I don't think you're seeing anyone advocating doing Nuc Level 1 or SUBSAFE stuff wrong; I'm saying that sometimes we don't need to have all 7 references at the worksite, including the one that's required because it says something like "don't piss on live electrical wires". I would hold that Submariners are distinguished by 1) knowing the right way to do it; 2) being able to do it the right way, and 3) when the occasion demands, knowing when some steps can safely be modified when a well-trained crew understands what is required.

1/28/2012 5:26 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just wrapped up an annual exam this week. The board took a good look at my records and watched us do a valve lineup. For the second one, I'm spending tomorrow with an NRTB writing a detailed report of what happened and the root causes.

We were "Average" despite the above.

1/28/2012 7:03 PM

Anonymous Mark/MM1(SS) said...

Nice addition to the thread, anon e moose.

1/28/2012 7:37 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Off topic (sort of, but in keeping with the blog title):

What is the word on the Nebraska Gold COB up in Bangor? Heard he went to NJP last week. His name has been changed on the Nebraska website already.

As a reminder, if you are active duty, keep it anonymous. Big Brother in the great OPCON in the Sky is watching closely due to the "women on subs" blackout.

1/29/2012 12:28 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

If this is who i thimk it is about, I knew he was done but didn't hear about the NJP. My understanding is someone interviewed during his PR dished some dirt, NCIS had to investigate, and one thing led to another. It was a long, slow, painful investigation. If this is the same person, there were no aspersions on his performance as COB. Well liked by crew and CoC. The offenses stemmed from a previous tour, and the rumor I heard was he took some work home with him years ago. His work happened to include classified material... While I never did that, I know many who did. It was rather routine to find SS notes in barracks rooms during inspections (no idea what he had at home if in fact that is what he was burned for) and I would tell the Nav and we would bring it back to the boat. Nothing would ever happen to the nub except a butt-chewing.

1/29/2012 12:52 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

This has been kept fairly quiet due to mentioned EMCON on women.

Classified material was one part (he was an ANAV). The other, believe it or not in this environment, was banging a Middy! I am sure it was tight but not worth it.

His Facebook page (now gone) had pictures of the two.

Google the Nebraska and he shows up at some state of Nebraska events. I am sure the Navy is working to scrub those also.

He was a good guy and well liked but TSSBP.

1/29/2012 1:14 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nebraska was recently announced as the Battle "E" winner...Ouch!

Easy cum, easy go!

1/29/2012 1:22 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

David Turley is a nice guy and all but never really saw him as COB material.

Tough break but he of people should know the deal with women nowadays.

1/29/2012 2:41 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

FYI, rumour is one of the ladies is already expecting!

1/29/2012 5:30 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

" of the ladies is already expecting."

If not now, it must happen in due course, and guess what?

1/29/2012 9:27 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Females get pregnant???? Unplanned losses in the first 6 months? Who'da thought that?

The chicken bone cross and garlic was on the Florida. Worked damn fine until we had to take'em down.


1/29/2012 9:39 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I thought so hagar - used to blow them a kiss on my pre-watch tours.

1/29/2012 10:32 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've had a few steam valves stop leaking by themselves overnight. Dropping the side and letting it cool off for a few hours, then starting it back up seems to do the trick.

The ELTs out there know there are certain things that just can't be done right (unless you've done it dozens of times and get good at it.) Ever determine Vs and Vb? Yeah, don't.

I was always of the opinion that we should report it when the controls we were supposed to use just didn't work out (whether too little or too excessive) If nobody ever says anything, how will it ever change? Better to be the guy that has the problem, than the guy who did it last time when they 'discover' that it can't be done.

Sometimes there are... circumstances, though.

1/30/2012 1:11 AM

Anonymous NHSparky said...

Hagar--London wouldn't have had anything to do with that, would he? Or am I going too far back?

1/30/2012 5:26 AM

Anonymous STS said...

One of the best examples of "get it done don't worry about the rules" we were trying to get a piece of equipment working, needed to work energized and an audience including the weps and co were part of LPO at the time said "Weps, Captain, if you would kindly turn your heads we can have this up and running in a few minutes"...they turned their heads and said "hey, don't get hurt"

1/30/2012 7:10 AM

Blogger a_former_elt_2jv said...

Reading these posts reminds me how much I miss reading the NRTBs.

EM2 DRUNK left boat while on duty, got arrested for DUI, came back and changed out MG in middle of night, signed off on 16 tag outs, took plant solid, and did illegal start-up without telling anyone when he relieved both SRW and SRO at same time.

I remember the one like that and it made me smile.

I do miss the EM-log!!

1/30/2012 8:43 AM

Anonymous Jay the Nuk said...

How is that even possible???

1/30/2012 10:21 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

1973, conducting final adjustments and preps on a MK 16 Mod 8 Navol-Steam warshot torpedo for first Operational Test in six years. Torpedo was on the hoist upside down so as to install exploder and booster in warhead cavity, and install torpedo gyro. Slew torpedo right side up and hear clink-clink-clink in tailcone. I immediately know what sound is as does Squadron Weapons officer and my TM1(SS). I tell weps we want to pull the counterrotating screws and tailcone to pull the loose elevator or rudder pin, reinstall and then run elevator and rudder checks. Weps disappears, back in 15 minutes tells us to go ahead. We do the job, found a loose pin that some torpedo shop jerk left in the tailcone. Get an ok from skipper to complete final preps and tube load the warshot. Next morning skipper comes down to the torpedo room. He is pissed! Squadron Commander who is onboard wants to abort shot, skipper tells him no! Squadron Commander tells him, then OK you shoot from surface. I remind skipper MK 16-8 has a sea pressure switch that requires submarine to be deeper that 42 feet in order for switch to close and start the engine. Skipper disappears. 15 minutes later he call down to torpedo room and tells me we will shoot from the surface however forward group ballast tanks will be flooded. On the surface, forward group flooded, big down angle screw is half out of the water, we shoot torpedo, blow the forward group dry, torpedo runs HSN, 88 seconds and BANG against cliff on target island. Squadron Commander gets the "charlie tuna" tag and no respect. Paperwork? Detail write-up in Torpedo Room work log and photo of the extra pin found in tailcone. I know the Squadron Weps had a "discussion" with the Steam Torpedo Shop OIC upon return to port.


1/30/2012 12:50 PM

Blogger Mike Mulligan said...

Captain Charisa Sosa?

1/30/2012 1:14 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anyone hear about a COB in Bangor getting the axe?

1/30/2012 5:20 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was on the Floriduh from 97-2000. Great tour, but boring on a T-hull.
I heard the Nebraska COB got shytcanned, no reason why though.


1/30/2012 9:19 PM

Anonymous Jim Houston said...

The ELT comment reminded me of the time I walked into off-hull nucleonics during refueling (if you haven't done a refueling don't think you have a clue what it's like). I was a young CRA- I opened the door, the Lead ELT looked at me, said "you don't want to be here", so I left. Never spoke of it again...

1/31/2012 8:29 AM

Anonymous Jay the Nuk said...


Don't want to bust your bubble, but I'm pretty sure they were reviewing photos of local hookers to call and get a date with. I'm sure thats all it was.

1/31/2012 8:58 AM

Anonymous Jim Houston said...

Ha! Good one- although the thought of Vallejo hookers is a bit frightening...

1/31/2012 9:13 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

any news on the 1star front?

1/31/2012 10:58 AM

Anonymous SparkyWT said...

Can someone tell me if we still paint piping with "high tep silver" sans the curing agent? I especially enjoyed telling the ORSE team; "no sir, we don't paint u/w", while they had silver skid marks on their CNTs.

1/31/2012 2:08 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey there Mr Houston. Bet I know which ELT you're referring to. Too many MINSY stories etched into the far reaches of my memory. One of the classic ones that is still foggy for obvious reasons...was the party at the Eng's place...out of control.

1/31/2012 3:56 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Anyone hear about a COB in Bangor getting the axe?"

As described above, banging middy did Dave in. The FACEBOOK pictures didn't help.

Due to current environment, he will quietly retire as an ETCS.

After all, we started with female officers onboard boats because they would be safe from the enlisted man.

1/31/2012 5:38 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Okay, just tossing this out there: Now that the higher-ups know the situation and the two parties involved, what do we all think happened to the female midshipman involved?

1/31/2012 7:14 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"...what do we all think happened to the female midshipman involved?"

One of two things: caught the clap, or went fucking blind. Tough call.

1/31/2012 7:41 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Due to current environment, he will quietly retire as an ETCS."

And in what earlier environment would this kind of dumbass activity been okay?

Way to take care of the crew, COB.

1/31/2012 8:14 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Since it was a boomer and all, the question, of course, needs to be asked: was it a female or male middie that the COB was doing the rumpy pumpy thing with?

1/31/2012 10:34 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

@8:14 PM Anon:

Since it has to be spelled out for you, the reason that the COB is being quietly retired is because in the current political environment, you will not hear word one against the females being put on the boats. This PC endeavor must succeed at all costs in order to protect the guilty.

1/31/2012 10:40 PM

Blogger Gospace said...

Heinlein mentioned several times in his works that the difference between cadets and midshipmen was that a midhipman is an officer- a cadet is not. I could find several references to midshipman status as officers; i.e.
Naval Academy midshipmen are classified as
officers of the line but are officers only in a qualified
sense. They rank just below chief warrant officers.

But I couldn't navigate my way through US Code to find it. So, under the law, the young female midshipman outranked the poor innocent ETCS, and abused her power in seducing him....

Don't know if I would want to try that as a defense. But it is a technical fly in the ointment should anyone want to bring it up.

1/31/2012 11:07 PM

Blogger Gospace said...

For some reason the whole url din't come out in the previous comment

1/31/2012 11:09 PM

Blogger Gospace said...

And it didn't again?

Last try

1/31/2012 11:10 PM

Anonymous Jim Houston said...

That party was EPIC...!!!

2/01/2012 6:15 AM

Anonymous Mike said...


That URL works.


2/01/2012 8:10 AM

Anonymous NHSparky said...

Harold--good luck getting the CO or the CM board believing that a 20 or 21-year old middie is somehow more to blame than a 40-year old E-8 or E-9.

Remember, this is PC Big Navy--women don't do that sort of thing, dontcha know.

Unless you're Army and the female CSM running the Drill Sergeant's School at Fort Jackson and you're currently under investigation. Three guesses as to why.

2/01/2012 9:49 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mid is going to be seperated from the Academy. Can't bang the help.

2/01/2012 9:55 AM

Anonymous buy essay said...

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2/01/2012 11:41 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Banging a middie? Is that rumor or someone got some knowledge? I saw the facebook pictures of Dave posing with femaile midshipmen and thought - "Yep. He is just that sort of dumb ass." Dumb move even if all was well.

BTW - Dave Turley also had an alcohol related incident (or two?) during his LCPO/ANAV tour as well. Yet still he bacame a COB? Never though he was the right guy for the job, but I ahve no doubt he was well-liked. Nice personable guy but that means nothing.

2/01/2012 1:55 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

BTW - Dave Turley also had an alcohol related incident (or two?) during his LCPO/ANAV tour as well. Yet still he bacame a COB?

I'm not surprised.

Shortly after I reported to my first boat as a CPO I was informed by another CHief that I would never be promoted to Senior Chief, just like he wouldn't be. ??? was what I thought. He went on, "You've never been through alcohol rehab, and you don't need to go. You have to fall down and pick yourself up to be promoted. If you never fall down, you're done with promotions."

From further observation, and retiring as a Chief, he was right. Almost everyone I saw promoted to E-8/9 had been through rehab, or went through rehab as an E-7.

Saw that in SOQ winners. Consistent solid avbove average performers never got SOQ. It was always a poor performer who suddenly performed at an average level for a quarter.

2/01/2012 3:01 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh come on - where are the pics of the middie? I know someone is smart enough to get by the "deleted off facebook" hurdle...

2/01/2012 5:09 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

@anon 3:01pm

You sound like the grossly out of height-weight standards, lazy, needs to be closely supervised to accomplish tasking E-5 I know who thinks that good workers get screwed and mediocre/sub-par Sailors get promoted.

If "the system" makes you feel better about not making the cut, so be it, but among other things your self-assessment skills are probably sub-par for an E-8.

2/01/2012 5:38 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

If she was with Dirty Dave then she definately wasn't "all that".

2/01/2012 5:42 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

We had midshipman one SSBN patrol back in the day, and I remember the questions coming up "what are you" and "what do we call you"? One of the midshipmen said to call him "Sir" and then one of the MT2/SS guys said "How about we call you non-qual?"

2/01/2012 7:53 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

mid-shipmen are not officers. They are not commisioned until graduation. How bout just calling them "hey you". Anyway, Dave made a huge mistake but I will bet my last dollar that if a good looking middie (female or male depending on your preference (sonar techs)) offered you a hand job under way you would jump on it. Don't be so quick to judge.

2/01/2012 9:30 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

2/01/2012 5:38 PM

Actually, I was always in the top 10% on the PRT's, but never maxed out on points. When younger, I could max the sit-ups, but that was it.

Was the ship's 3M co-ordinator as a collateral duty- as a PO2. Yep, needed constant supervision. Oh, wait, isn't that normally a CPO collateral duty? Helped me make CPO on the first try. Held every collateral duty known to man, but always too junior to be LPO or section leader. Because I took each advancement exam only once.

On Facebook right now, I can track 6 other people from my division on my second boat, who were E-4 to E-7 during the time I served with them, who went on to retire. That's a pretty high percentage. My Chief, who was a pretty decent chief, was an overweight alcolholic who pased the PRT only because the overweight corpsmen held the stopwatch during the run, retired as a Senior Chief. That was in the good ol' days when the PRT wasn't really taken seriously by ANYONE, even though it was a hoop to be jumped through. Can't hold not passing the PRT against him. He joined the Navy when it was expected that senior enlisted would be overweight alcoholics who smoked. I joined as those days were just beginning to come to an end. When I went through "A" school, was out of class nearly every day by 1300. Instructors needed to get back to the Club, where they had drank their lunch. When I went back as an instructor, class was until 1600- every day. And monitored. And if you showed up after lunch with alcohol on your breath, woe be unto you.

As for the other 5, every one of them retired as a CPO. We had nothing in common except- none were alcoholics. One had to be reminded to take showers. Another took showers like twidgets- before and after watch. Some used a tech manual every time they worked on a piece of equipment they weren't familiar with, others thought tech manuals were for wusses. At least 4 different religions- we talked about a LOT during patrol. Some got married and stayed that way, some got divorced.

Nothing in common, but not being alcoholics, none made Senior Chief. After leaving the boat, I stayed in touch with one of them before the Facebook era. (I love Facebook.)

Alcoholics and drunks are a fraternity. They don't trust anyone outside the fraternity. A non- drinker, or someone who has never missed a muster from being hungover- won't cover for him when he does screw up because of drinking. A fellow drunk will.

Right now in my local community I'm the scoutmaster for the third time- because I was asked to do it. Again. During the previous year, under someone who volunteered, there were zero Scout advancements. We have 5 (so far) for the Court of Honor in 2 weeks. Leadership is leadership. Of the Facebook shipmates, there's a VFD Chief, and a local elected community leader. But they nver made Senior Chief. I've tried looking up a few of the drunks I worked with who I know were promoted, just to see how they dealt with CIVLANT. Can't find them, on Facebook or google search.
That tells me something.

I served on 2 boats as a Chief- and on both of them, every E-8/9 had been through rehab. I know it is possible to make E-8/9 w/o rehab; I met a few on shore duty. When they told sea stories, they weren't about wild drinking binges with their fellow chiefs.

My guess is that a non-drinker in a CPO Qtrs dominated by drinkers is SOL- and that an alkie in a CPO Qtrs dominated by non-drinkers is equally SOL.

In a Qtrs that's evenly divided- who knows?

I simply assumed that on returing to sea duty I would make senior chief. As I stated earlier, another Chief informed me, within weeks, that it wasn't going to happen, and told me the why. Within weeks. I thought he was talking out his ass. He wasn't. He had been on sea duty on that sub 3 years when I got there.

My self assessment skills are just fine- it was his observation that made me aware of the dichotomy.

2/01/2012 11:13 PM

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2/02/2012 6:07 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

@5:38 Anon 'Chief':

Well said, well put.

Congratulations on finding out that life is about a lot more than the Nav, and that true leadership is about a lot more than your so-called rating. Cheers, shipmate.

2/02/2012 9:03 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I really hope your bitterness of not making E-8 has not really clouded your brain to believe that only reformed FUs make rank.
If so, I pity you.

2/02/2012 11:51 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just confirmed the Dave Turley firing due to sleeping with midshipman (female) story. GEEZE. How fucked up and pitiful of him.

To the person who posted - "who is to say you'd turn it down so reserve judgement" - that is total bullshit. A lot of us have been underway with female mids and kept our dicks in our pants. Someone who would post what you posted is judging themselves very obviously rather than the opposite (meaning you'd do the same as he did if you had the chance). Pitiful.

2/02/2012 2:08 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just confirmed the Dave Turley firing due to sleeping with midshipman (female) story. GEEZE. How fucked up and pitiful of him.

Just what is the big deal? (Depending, of course, on what the definition of "is" is.)

-- Former Commander-in-Chief Bill 'Slick Willy' Clinton

2/02/2012 4:58 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

2/02/2012 5:58 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I really hope they fry that guy.

2/02/2012 7:24 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Does your hand hurt from patting yourself on the back that hard? Wow, I knew that some folks were bitter when the E-8 and E-9 results came out, but this takes the cake. After you get done crying into your hands, I would like to inform you that I, through some devine intervention I suppose, was advanced above CPO without any form of rehab! I had no "demon" to overcome, I simply performed my job. Everyday. Better than you. Problem?

2/02/2012 7:54 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Great photo!

As the song goes "Dirty Dave, done dirt cheap"!

2/02/2012 8:46 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Look fast, as I don't imagine it'll last long, but the first pic on the top left at this link from Google image search appears to be a low-res pic of Turley and the middie from Facebook.

2/02/2012 11:10 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Too late.

"Big Brother is watching, and thoughtcrime is illegal."

2/02/2012 11:27 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I can't help but wonder how much "We the People" are spending as taxpayers on dickbulbs whose day job (and night job) consists of watching blogs for links to pictures of Navy adulterers and their girlfriends, and taking said pictures down as though a stop watch was running on measuring their performance.

Seriously...who is paying $$$ for this kind of chicken shit excuse for "national security"? Big that you? Or is this just another case of DoD Fraud, Waste &

2/02/2012 11:44 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

^^^^^^Very related to the above nonsense:

You'll all want to read this summation of the current intra-U.S. intelligence snafu, written by a Cold War submariner. It's also somewhat a review of Top Secret America.

We are definitely in uncharted waters these days when it comes to electronic surveillance on the U.S. citizenry. God help us all.

P.S. Also see the comment section for how Navy nukes were sent to the rescue of the totally FUBAR situation at the Rocky Flats Plant.

2/03/2012 8:53 AM

Blogger Mike Mulligan said...

Well, as somebody who actually was survielled, investigated and interviewed by the FBI's Joint Terrorism Task Force...they were just doing their jobs. If you are not doing anything wrong, what are they going to do to you. You know, we got something over our heads, its called the Constitution.

It not about if we are being watched, we got enemies out their that definitely who want to hurt a lot of us, take Iran. Its what big brother does with the information once they collect it. If the government is ethical, honest and trustworthy...and we are backed up the our constitution...then they will use that information appropriately.

I must be getting old, because maybe big brother is about protecting the little guy....

2/03/2012 10:11 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Move along...move along..."

- Bladerunner

2/03/2012 10:41 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mike- I actually, for the first time ever, believe your story that you were the subject of FBI monitoring. See, when you drive a van and hang out around playgrounds 8 hours per day trying to hand out candy. Can't wait to see you on Dateline on day soon!

2/03/2012 4:01 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I heard Big Submarine (as guided by Big Navy) is concerned on how Dirty Dave's middy conquest made it to the blogosphere during The Women at Trident blackout imposed on active duty.

2/04/2012 9:14 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Big Navy should be more concerned with Big Truth than Big Coverup. History is kinder to proponents of the former.

2/04/2012 12:43 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I love how child molesters, drunks, drug users and a COB who bangs a middie underway can retire at a rank like E7 or 8. I finished as an E7 with an impeccable record and multiple coms and nams yet those bastards still out rank me. Maybe the Navy needs to have the Honor and Courage to actually do something about this crap and the commitment to the guys who actually didn't do something as stupid as "Dirty" Dave did.

2/04/2012 1:20 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why are all the AD guys such pussies about putting up some of the juicy lady gossip? There has to be someone that's six degrees of separation out that's heard some news on how it is going. Somebody that can't is not actually on the crews of any of the boats that actually have women.

And seriously, even if you are on the crew... just post the shit, they'll never figure out who you are anyway. The whole idea that there is a media blackout makes me think that there are serious issues.

2/04/2012 3:09 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I know one of the females. She is doing fine, hasn't made an underway yet with her crew (just rotation schedule, nothing bad going on). So she's working on her initial quals, scope operator, contact coordinator, etc. During a session in the trainer, she corrects one of the FTs for moving too fast while operating the scope. He thinks it would be funny to say "I've never had a woman tell me THAT before." ha. ha.

And she handles it perfectly. Looks him dead in the eye and says "do you REALLY want to go down this road?" He mutters some backing-down face-saving excuse. She lets it pass. No "yellow light", no complaint, and the FT now knows not to mess with her.

What to take out of this? The Submarine Force has done a great job prepping for this and it is going well - very little drama. The women are smart and they are well-equipped to handle what may come their way (of course there's always one idiot to provide a challenge to them). I couldn't be more proud of them, and actually pretty proud of the way the crews are handling it too.

2/04/2012 4:10 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

She must be USNA. That's an uppity ass ensign... Not anything atypical though!

2/04/2012 5:30 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

As Kevin Bacon's character screamed in Animal House, "Remain calm, all is well."

2/04/2012 5:55 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The Submarine Force has done a great job prepping for this and it is going well - very little drama. The women are smart and they are well-equipped to handle what may come their way (of course there's always one idiot to provide a challenge to them). I couldn't be more proud of them, and actually pretty proud of the way the crews are handling it too."

Wow. Now we know that it's all fabulous. End of story. A politician's PR person couldn't shovel it better or faster than that.

2/04/2012 6:00 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

In the years past:.........say about 2 years ago.

The young ensign (male) corrects the FT for moving too fast while operating the scope. FT replies "that's not what your mom says"

Entire control room says "ha, ha".

Ensign handles it perfectly. Looks him dead in the eye and says "do you REALLY want to go down this road?"
OOD says " don't go down that road, his Mom is on the corner smoking crack, wearing six inch heels, and asking 20 for a bj and 50 to make a new ensign.
CO has a little laugh in his stateroom.
The fun times are gone.

2/04/2012 6:02 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"During a session in the trainer, she corrects one of the FTs for moving too fast while operating the scope."

Two years ago, the FT would have replied "How the f*** would you know, nub?"

The Ensign might have gotten his panties in a bind, but probably would have learned a few things about how to deal with the crew and even maybe what the appropriate NWP says about periscope search procedures.

Now-a-days, the Ensign might have gotten her panties in bind, but the outcome would be more like Captain's mast or Page 13 entries for one or more of the crew.

But that's why there's a total news blackout, because it's all so good.

2/04/2012 6:15 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I love that comment. It's unintentionally very revealing.

1) it's obviously written by big brother

2) The implicit dynamic in this interaction is that the female member of the crew uses her special protected status as a threat to shut up FT. In this instance the FT was probably out of line, but just barely and was corrected by an implicit threat of punishment... And we applaud that!

3) this highlights another, older negative trend. Management by a nub with a stopwatch.

2/04/2012 7:13 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Then let me be intentionally revealing. I've been on subs. The rah-rah nature of the 4:10 anon comment doesn't pass a simple B.S. test. Nothing is that good.

The rah-rah comment is written as if it was authored by a first-person observer. However, that would violate the information blackout. With Big Submarine watching, that would be unlikely unless it was sanctioned. So perhaps it was written by someone with second-hand knowledge, like a family member, perhaps a military family member. The "I couldn't be more proud of them" comment sounds a lot like what parents say about their children.

To be candid, I also know one of the female Ensigns. Maybe the same one being discussed here, I'm not sure. The one I know is reasonably bright, but so are all nuclear-trained officers. In that regard, she's nothing special in the company she's keeping. She's also petulant, anti-social, and has the female version of a Napoleon complex. That's not going to play well on a submarine, independent of gender.

When the Ensign gets some time on board and is no longer a no-load oxygen breather, the Ensign might develop some credibility with the crew. Then the Ensign won't be asked "How the f*** would you know, nub?" That applies independent of gender, as well.

2/04/2012 8:35 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow. "2/4/12 4:10 anon" was either never there for the fun times, never got it at all, and/or is swimming in the deep purple PC kool-aid. The whole social-dynamic point - whether you got it or not - of that rough-and-fun environment was that it built a stronger, bonded, tested crew. Coddling and comfort will bring weakness and apathy. That female ensign ain't 'doing fine' - she's being grown into next decade's entitled martinet of a weak-ass department head.

2/05/2012 8:25 AM

Blogger Mike Mulligan said...

"Mike- I actually, for the first time ever, believe your story that you were the subject of FBI monitoring"

You little girl for posting anonymously and is that the quality of submarine officers today?

2/05/2012 10:09 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow. Congratulations, anons @5:30, 5:55, 6:00, 6:02, 6:15, 7:13, 8:35, and 2/5 8:25. Your laminated official membership cards for "The He-Man Women Haters Club" are ready for pickup.

Let me see if I can paraphrase your position:

"I liked it when it was just men, so we shouldn't change it."

"It must be different when there are women, so we shouldn't change it"

Stunning logic, that.

I especially love @8:35's remark - "She's also petulant, anti-social, and has the female version of a Napoleon complex." Change the gender and you're describing half of the nuclear-trained officers I know.

They're here - they're not much different - get over it.

2/05/2012 11:43 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow, somebody's pussy is bleeding.

Of course the trainer story was planted or at the very least, "encouraged". Since the unauthorized release of Dirty Dave's exploits, Big Submarine is trying to regain the initiative.

Lots of Big Navy/Big Submarine people read this blog. It often shows up in "Early Bird" type emailings. Since the breaking of this story here, it has now been picked up by other social media.

Keep reading, keep commenting and keep saying it like you see it. THEY are reading and taking notice...good and bad.

2/05/2012 12:08 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dirty Dave has proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that there is going to be sex aboard submarines when men and women are involved. You cannot trump nature no matter how many bogus feel good studies you do. I hope Big Navy and all the RA! RA! women libbers like salt with thier crow. Men and women can do the job. They just can't do it in a steel tube rubbing up against each other for 90+ days without some one getting randy. Women smell freaking awesome after 10 days at sea let alone 90.

One of the previous posts also illustrates how these subchicks are going to be untouchable. They will be able to do whatever they want and will never be releived for performance isuues or any other issue. They have to succeed! They must!

By the way, Dirty Dave's "affair" wasn't just a one time deal. They had rendevous in DC and in Washington State. The rendevous in DC was paid for by John Q. Taxpayer based on a trip to the Naval Historical Center to find some ship history. Dirty Dave seems to have been pretty sneaky too. Some members of the CPO quarters knew about it and have been "dealt" with.

2/05/2012 1:14 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

What does "dealt with" mean? Was someone headhunting and trying to set a new standard? What about the days when others knew who was screwing the wife from the other crew? Are they retired as an E7 or are they now a sure bet for 8/9?

2/05/2012 2:45 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'll point out that anonymosu at 2/04/2012 1:20 PM is a different anonymous then me, who made the same observation earlier.

You've got to fall down then 9appear to) redeem yourself to get promoted. If you don't admit your weaknesses, you're in denial.

The same, BTW, is true in CIVLANT. But it is much easier to change jobs. Organizations that conti nue to promote for any reason other then competence eventually go bankrupt.

2/05/2012 10:35 PM

Anonymous Anon @ 7:13 said...

Believe me, I am not a woman-hater nor do I think that women are less capable. I think that if the submarine force was all-female it would possibly be much better in certain ways. In CIVLANT, my last two bosses were women, and IMO they were the two best managers I've ever worked for. I respect them far more than any senior navy officers that I've worked with (though I think this says far more about the generally low quality of careerist submariners, than anything else).

That said, adding women to submarines was done for all of the wrong reasons, there are many risks associated with the change, and few, if any, benefits to war fighting effectiveness. It was justified under demonstrably false premises. Senior leadership out and out lied about the necessity of it, and whitewashed discussion of all potential negative outcomes without seriously addressing them, potentially even serious health concerns. But that's par for the course for Admirals and Generals. Look to the former soldiers, sailors, and Marines trying to collect disability for respiratory problems caused by burn pits, and the utter silence of military leadership fighting for them.

I can understand that women on submarines is a bad idea whose time has come, and can understand justification of it under those circumstances, but Big Navy is not being honest with us by not admitting that there are going to be very real problems with this, for little real benefit (apart from a bullet on a fit rep somewhere, and a couple of years of fluff PR photo ops that nobody outside of the submarine force notices or cares about).

2/06/2012 5:30 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Are you efing kidding me? You all sound like a bunch of whining ass Seamen. Like it or not, the ship has sailed, women are now on submarines. You can keep bitching about it or deal with it. I guess some of us are in a better position in our careers, lives, and maturity to do that than other.

As for Dave proving anything, the only thing he has proven is that one dumbass can make life harder for a lot of other people. He is the cause of a devastating blow to Navy Chiefs everywhere. Hello, everyone already knew that men and women will have sex if you put them together. That lesson did not need to be proven, especially by an E-9 COB. Yes I meant to say E-9, not Master Chief!

What that guy did is a major embarrassment and many of the things being said here aren’t much better.

2/13/2012 3:57 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

^^Your proud speech is just more double-talk bullshit.

If what the "E-9" did was 'fully expected' again does that translate to a "major embarrassment" for the Navy Chiefs or the Navy?

If the powers that be fully expected hanky panky as women were put on the boats -- and they're not THAT friggin' dumb to expect otherwise -- then what's this all about, anyway?

-- former President Bill "Slick Willie" Clinton

2/14/2012 9:53 AM

Blogger M.S said...

During ORSE on the NYC, my job was to take protable air samples in the engine room. The standard call to DC Central was "Portable air samples taken in engine room upper level (for instance) are less than 10 to the minus 9th micro-micro curies per milliliter". But during a drill, I was tasked to take air samples with a draeger and someone else took the sample I usually took. His response was a tongue-tied "Air samples taken in ERUL is less than the limit." We got hit for that, but later, it became the acceptable response as long as you could elucidate the actual reading. Later I became a member of EMAT. That was actually fun.


2/22/2012 9:18 PM

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3/04/2012 7:55 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

On Topeka in 93, Capt Ed J. "fired" Weps. Took local control of sonar Div and directed me (the new Chief) how and where to trouble shoot BSY-1 system.

Lots of "yes sir's" and stood with my back and foot to the door of CESE while my techs trouble shot and corrected the problem.

3/10/2012 10:41 PM

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