Documentary Review: "Kursk: A Submarine In Troubled Waters"
Just finished watching the acclaimed French documentary about the RNS Kursk sinking, and I must say it raised many interesting...
Nah, I can't do it. What a piece of moonbat trash! I've seen documentaries that ignore all evidence to the contrary of their predetermined conclusion, but this one is the worst. Combining primitive graphics with a complete lack of any evidence supporting it's conclusions, Kursk looks like it was made by unskilled 7th graders. From stating at all (not just Russian) nuclear submarines have two crews, to saying that the tarp hut that goes over an escape trunk was "meant to hide the missing distress beacon" (?) on USS Memphis, to saying the Memphis and USS Toledo were "badly damaged", it spewed out a whole stream of not only unsupported statements, but ones that flew in the face of all evidence to the contrary. It spun a tale of American fear that the "Shkval" Russian supercavitating torpedo would be sold to the Chinese leading to the American subs (which were monitoring the exercise from a distance) getting too close to the Kursk to "show American displeasure".
I've discussed earlier some of the fallacies of the documentary, so I won't repeat them here (you can click here and here to see them) except for this synopsis: Mk 48s don't make a small hole in a ship's hull -- it's Mk 50s, not carried by subs, that supposedly do that. The Memphis stopped in the Norwegian port not to get "repaired" from the collision, but to drop off the sonar tapes of the sinking so they could be flown to the U.S. USS Toledo wasn't horribly damaged in 2000; she returned from her deployment as scheduled. And, last but not least, you couldn't keep a secret like this, even in the sub community.
In summary, Kursk: A Submarine In Troubled Waters gets "the finger"... with both hands.
posted by Bubblehead at 9:12 AM
13 Comments:
you're a dumbass
ignorant American
12/26/2005 9:00 PM
I just watched the movie, pure anti American propaganda. It's so anti American I'm surprised the French beat Hollywood in the making of this film. But then Clinton was President at the time, mustn't make him look bad.
Keep up the good work !!
2/07/2006 5:44 PM
The "Squall" rocket torpedo was sold to the Chinese and somehow, the North Koreans got at least one as did the Iranian's. I agree about US submarines not being involved. Most of us who have analyzed what is out in the public documentation believe that notoriously unstable torpedo fuel was somehow ignited and that caused a minor explosion (first sound heard on tape). Unfortunately, what appears to have happened is that at least one and perhaps more torpedos sympathetically detonated immediately after. Since the Russian practice is to keep the WT hatches open between comaprtment 1 and the "control post," that meant that the explosion flash and overpressure immediately went back at least to control and reactor operator stations. WT hatches further aft probably were closed, but warped by the explosion. The result was flooding and loss of power and light which was not overcomeable and the submarine sank.
At the time (and still today), the state of the Russian economy was such that training was scant and the turnover rate amongst enlisted and officer was high. This could result in personnel being assigned that were poorly trained and/or unfamiliar with that particular boat ... a deadly combination when live weapons were to be fired.
The firm Mammoet has a very good animation on line of the recovery along with lots of still photos of the damage.
4/13/2006 4:03 PM
From a fromer FT2(SS). Take may word that a 48 or ADCAP didn't do this. I saw the mockumentery as well and almosted pissed myself laughing at the tarp/distress bouy comments. Of course this was after all the other times that i just went "huh" at the conclusions drawn by the film. Unless submarine tatcis have cahnged alot since '97
6/26/2006 10:47 AM
...so who did that hole from outside..?
11/20/2006 10:42 AM
I can stomach a lot regarding U.S. malfeasance in the world - the Lord knows the U.S. record for military, intelligence, and foreign policy blunders, blowbacks, and buffoon bellicosity backfiring is long. But wingnut conspiracy theories like the one involving the Kursk do the usual: they distract us from seeing a reality that is more prosaic and woeful. The immediate and long-term response by the Russian government really exposed the dangerous combination of paranoia and incompetence. Even if space aliens sank the damned thing you'd think people might have acted a tad differently. Like quickly organize a search and rescue regardless of how futile it might have been.
Oh, and bubblehead, conspiracies tend to emanate from wingnuttery. The classic tinfoil hat bozo was a John Bircher hollerin' about the thousands of Chinese soldiers just awaiting to invade San Diego.
2/22/2007 10:48 AM
funny when ameriCANTs that don't know a single Russian word and even worse - cant spell correctly in their native language, pose themselves as experts on state of Russian navy and its affairs. You got to be dumb as a chicken to believe that Russia would equip a modern submarine with some obsolete torpedoes on pair with "Squall" (developing a countermeasure to which is still unreachable ameriCANT dream)
8/13/2007 2:59 PM
On a related matter, what stockpile of Russian brides are left available for us hornbags in good ol' US of A ?
3/11/2008 9:27 PM
Given that a number of US admirals believe or even appear to 'know' that the Scorpion was sunk in 1968 by a Soviet torpedo as retaliation for the loss of the K-129, and that there's a long history of US sub's recklessly 'bumping' into those they shadow, why is it beyond all possibility that the Kursk was destroyed, either accidentally or deliberately, in similar circumstances?
I don't actually believe the US fired on the Kursk (though I'm yet to see anyone give a credible alternative explanation for that peculiar hole - which was not cut as part of the salvage operation), but having read all the books on the subject I do believe some kind of collision occurred which led to a chain of events causing the total loss, and that is why Clinton paid the Russians off. The incoming torpedo is only one element of the conspiracy.
Even allied subs with the latest sonar have collided in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean, so why can't this happen in the middle of a war exercise in shallow water when those exercises are of huge interest to NATO subs engaged on spying missions and especially after one of those US subs was seen to limp to a port for running repairs to her bow and then onto a covered dock in the UK for more extensive repairs?
7/21/2009 4:35 PM
When the Russians concluded that the Memphis and Toledo were responsible for the demise of the typhoon Kursk, they also contemplated on the repercussion of an all out nuclear exchange between them and the Yankees. All of us would not be here saying things against anyone of them. It's a long long war of world dominance which is also constantly putting them in great fear of annihilation.
5/27/2010 6:44 AM
I see that the DINQ, know nothing, trolls were out. I just watched this "film" and glad it was on an empty stomach.
I was a nuke MM in the 60s & 70s (the 571 boat was the first one I rode), so I don't know about what kind of fish do what kind of damage. However, it seems to me that the hole would suffer some sort of blast deformation.
2/08/2012 1:56 AM
Hi. I am a Russian American and I've out about this whole story and spent hours researching it out of pure great interest, being able to read the russian and american media. However, I have absolutely no experience with submarines. So I, too, would like to hear an impartial, logical, educated guess or opinion on what caused the hole in the hull from one of you submarine guys. Thanks!
7/31/2012 12:37 PM
I did the initial analysis of the tapes. No collision, no hull scrapes. Explosions definitely originated from inside. It was a horrible, mainly because as a former sub sonarman, I new exactly what was going on and I could relate to what was going through their minds.
9/05/2012 8:02 PM
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