USS Olympia SKC In Trouble
I know it's always important to give people the assumption of innocence until guilt is proven, but it looks like USS Olympia (SSN 717) will be needing a new SKC:
When the Hawaiian plane landed Friday at Phoenix's airport, Cole was arrested. That's where police said he initially denied physical contact and said he only touched the girl in an attempt to wake her before the plane landed. A short time later, police said he changed his story and admitted he had fondled himself while sitting next to the girl.People, even submariners, amaze me in their stupidity at times. A life ruined, a family broken apart, and a young girl traumatized because some idiot couldn't control his urges. I'm sure the Navy will be checking his records and auditing his parts inventory to see what other rules he decided to break.
Cole is stationed aboard the USS Olympia submarine at Pearl Harbor, where he's a chief storekeeper. Sources say he was on vacation and may have been traveling to visit his mother, who lives in Arizona.
Prosecutors said the man is married with young children, and his wife told them that she will not allow him back to their house in Hawaii because of his arrest.
posted by Bubblehead at 8:07 AM
25 Comments:
it's always important to give people the assumption of innocence until guilt is proven
I can't say I agree. It's important for a jury to do this, but for just any guy on the street? Not really. The ability to prove guilt or innocence in a court of law isn't the same thing as knowing for certain whether a certain crime was committed and by whom. A court's ruling doesn't determine reality.
1/24/2008 10:28 AM
ok, the Chief screwed up. With out a track record I feel he should be given the benifit of doubt. This guy obviosly needs help. Sure he should be punished but also some mental health help. Then back to duty as a Chief
1/24/2008 10:35 AM
Anon...
"ok, the Chief screwed up. With out a track record I feel he should be given the benifit of doubt."
Are you kidding? Sounds like you've either done or thought about doing something similar and therefor can relate and/or feel pity for the SKC.
When will you Pee Wee Herman types learn to hold your urges, at least until you get behind your own closed doors?
1/24/2008 11:38 AM
Doesn't Hawaii have a low age of consent? Maybe the SKC was just geographically challenged.
1/24/2008 12:23 PM
He admitted it. There's no doubt for him to benefit from anymore. He is undoutedly a perv.
RM1/SS
1/24/2008 1:10 PM
The a$$ doesn't belong in a chief's uniform either, I don't care what his track record was before this. The chiefs are supposed to be model citizens and exemplary military members (so few are anymore). He has lost all credibility and couldn't possibly be an effective leader after this.
RM1/SS
1/24/2008 1:13 PM
He should be strung up from the highest yardarm (or periscope) by his goodies.
RM2/SS
1/24/2008 1:21 PM
Not only will the Olympia need a new SKC, it sounds like the SKC will be needing a new place to live. Loved his wife's response that was written in the article. I am sure the taxpayers of Arizona (or Hawaii??) will be paying his room and board for a while, unless the Navy does so. Had an old COB that used to work at a brig. Said that the most common offenses for E-5 and below in the brig were drug related and the most common offense for E-6 and above was child molestation.
1/24/2008 4:10 PM
Anybody out there know this guy? I swear he was on one of my earlier boats as a 1st class. San Francisco or Norfolk.
1/24/2008 8:15 PM
True story: I was once flying on a 747 on the right hand side of the wide middle row next to a young teen or pre-teen girl, with her parents seated off to her left.
I guess she liked me in a way that I certainly didn't anticipate, as when the lights went down, she reached over and started to caress the inside of *my* thigh.
Exchanging lightning glances, the expression on her face was...well...impish. Sort of a "yeah, I did that (smile)."
My look, on the other hand, let her know not to even think about doing that again. She didn't.
I doubt she did any jail time. It was just a very, very weird moment.
We all have weird moments. We don't all get caught. We often profess to be Christians...often even as we're judging and condemning someone.
Maybe Christ meant to forgive everyone *except* this guy...maybe not.
I was privy to a lot of submarine personnel 'stuff' when stationed in D.C. once upon a time, and I came to believe this: we all have a dark side to our nature. We can all choose focus on that and fight evil, or simply focus on the good and making life as whole and joyful for others as possible. Made my choice a long time ago.
God bless and uplift the Chief and his family. May they come again to know the truth, and the love they're meant to live.
1/24/2008 9:06 PM
Unfortunately the first thing that comes to my mind is that this could not be the first time he's done something of that nature... Maybe it was the first time he was caught.
Now, I could be wrong. But, historically, there's usually been a pattern with people who do this stuff. I work in a field that confirms this in my mind, and I've had close relatives affected both directly and indirectly, including me. Just saying.
As such, I wholeheartedly disagree with Anon 10:35. He should not go back to sea duty. He's a Chief. Isn't there something he should be doing to set a good example for his men?
By the way, good on his wife for kicking him out. I would, and I wish more wives married to these assholes would as well. He made her look like a complete fool. I feel terrible for his children.
1/24/2008 10:20 PM
my husband is an FT and is stationed on the uss olympia ssn 717. we never thought something like this could hit close to home. we have two daughters and we bbq'd s as a command with this guy. really creeps me out. i hope he rots in the brig. i can only imagine what his wife and family is going through. and the poor victim. my prayers are with her and are also with his family.
1/25/2008 1:22 AM
I blame the boat. Most of you have never gone to sea on the Oly, but *I* have, and it's just evil. It slowly drives you mad, like the Overlook hotel in The Shining. The Navy has never had a real mutiny, but if they do, it will be on that boat. Why the heck hasn't it been decommissioned with all the otehr early 688's?
1/25/2008 7:28 AM
My husband has been to sea and it didn't drive him crazy. You exaggerated and are making excuses for a sick man. Do not try to justify his actions. SKC has been in the navy for a while and this has nothing to do with bein at sea or not going to sea either. I've met the guy at command functions, his actions could never have been foreseen and never justified. there are hundreds of submariners who never hurt children.
1/25/2008 12:28 PM
Life isn't a Penthouse "Letter to the Editor"
I imagine the Navy will be kicking this chief out, regardless how his civilian trial turns out.
1/25/2008 4:48 PM
I'm glad there are nice people in the world like the two anonymous posters who encourage rehabilitation and forgiveness for offenders... but the submarine force is not the place for such luxuries.
Simply put, we can't afford to host those who have shown they aren't reliable to do the right thing even when authority isn't watching them.
It may be a typically self-absorbed bubblehead attitude, but I really don't care what the Navy does with this freak after they have ripped the dolphins from his chest and sent him up the river. Eject him from the force with great prejudice and leave him with a painful memory. Inventory the entire boat with external oversight. And pray that the Controlled Material he was trusted with still does the job when it counts.
1/25/2008 5:54 PM
Simply put, we can't afford to host those who have shown they aren't reliable to do the right thing even when authority isn't watching them.
Bad news, Iconoclast...you still have plenty of them on the boats.
Tell me, did submariners always "do the right thing" in far flung places like Olongapo or Padia Beach? Do they now? Why did the U.S. get kicked out of the Philippines...just not enough submariners to -- y'know -- do the right thing?
One has to ignore both basic statistics and demographics to not understand the fact that no matter how you cut members from the team, you still end up with players on the lower rungs when it comes to the ladder of good judgement and behavior.
It is the arrogance of the ego and rational mind that would argue that 'they' rule the world of choice when it comes to behavior. That's wildly off the mark of the reality, where choice is fully driven by the unconscious/emotional mind. Case in point for pretty much all of us: see Seinfeld's "The Contest."
So, you may fire when ready, Gridley...but you'll still have "bad" people by your definition on the boats. They're there right now. I guarantee it.
1/25/2008 6:40 PM
Submarine Iconoclast has at least one good point: the military, the Navy and the submarine force are not substantially skilled or accomplished when it comes to healing psychological trauma.
For the families affected by this most recent instance of inhumanity, and for anyone who has experienced substantial trauma in their lives, I wholeheartedly recommend that you read the book "The Healing Dimensions" by Brent Baum.
Baum is a world-class healer of trauma who has treated many thousands of cases successfully. He's the kind of guy who gets brought in for cases like TWA Flight 800. The man is the real deal, who practices what he teaches: that we all have the power to heal.
1/25/2008 7:09 PM
6:40PM anonymous, I don't doubt we have our share of as-yet-unidentified dirtbags lurking in the force. I was just trying to explain why getting this guy "back to duty as a Chief" doesn't work.
It's the DEMONSTRATED part of "demonstrated unreliability" that means the SKC in question will likely never board a submarine again in his life, let alone serve on one. We lack the resources to shepherd PROVEN dirtbags through daily shipboard life. Finding a way to get one SKC's work done is possible on a submarine; providing him 24/7 direct supervision is not. Forget about mentoring or therapy altogether - submarine life ain't the best for 'finding yourself' or 'becoming whole again.'
I left unmentioned other significant aspects such as the cancerous effect of putting someone who clearly doesn't know "right from wrong" back in the leadership position of being The Chief or the diminished trust a civilian population would rightly have for a Service that accepts such behavior from anyone (let alone its khaki-clad leaders).
I read your post to imply that such behavior is inevitable and therefore should be tolerated. I disagree and believe the "right thing" for those Navy leaders involved in this case is to remove such individuals from our population as they become identified.
I guess you could say I disagree because I believe in establishing standards and then enforcing them. SKC Cole broke the established standard.
1/25/2008 8:22 PM
"Behavior like that" should be healed, not tolerated, shipmate.
My point is that you can't simply "fire" your way into the best possible submarine force. You have to recognize up front that people have issues -- every single one of them -- and work with them all along the way to make them the best possible person that they can be.
Sure, screen out from the beginning those people who have excessive issues, but, once accepted, we need to take care of our young instead of eating them.
The paradigm of "good person" and "bad person" is fundamentally broken. It's the kind of thing that the Pharisees (literally "Separatists") preached. We're all children of God, and we can all heal...in the right culture.
1/26/2008 6:56 AM
I have to agree that the Oly is just plain evil. And evil endures.
1/26/2008 9:29 AM
As an ET onboard the Oly, I'm just glad I never had my kids around him.
1/28/2008 9:57 AM
First off I would like to say that Subs are not kicked out of Subic Bay, esp since the Pasadena just pulled in there. Second, in the whole fleet, subs are generally less prone to trouble making. But when we get into trouble we are front page. I am on the Clown Bus, and we had a little incident a little while back HEADLINED EVERYWHERE, but kittyhawk doesnt even make honorable mention. lol
Still, SKC on the oly def deserves no slack. He prolly forgot that he wasnt on the boat.
2/06/2008 11:19 PM
This is not the first time the Olympia has seen this type of behavior from it's ranks. Back in 1989 there was a ST3 that did something similar. He once exposed himself to a minor in a store and then soon after he broke into a home at night to try and get to a minor girls bedroom. My guess is that this happens more than is reported (both times he was intoxicated). The incident that I am speaking about never made the local news because it all happened on the Navy Base. There is absolutely no excuse for his behavior. I'm mortified to think that my five year old daughter could be in the vicinity of someone like this. I was stationed on the Olympia in the late 80's and early 90's. Your experiences on the submarine reflect the type of person you are. I had a great time and have fond memories of my duty on the Olympia.
5/30/2009 9:35 AM
I absolutely tie in with anything you've presented us.
11/09/2011 1:24 AM
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