The Stupid Shall Be Punished
Now, we all know initial reports are often erroneous, and there might be some other explanation for this, but if this story from Bangor is even halfway true, it looks like some Submariners haven't learned the first lesson of submarining. Excerpts:
Two Navy sailors were in critical condition at Harborview Medical Center on Friday night after an explosion involving military equipment that the men may have taken from a submarine without permission...No mention in the story about whether or not alcohol was involved. I'm sure the Submariners in the Bangor area will now be subjected to some sort of "Safety Standdown" where they learn not to throw OBA canisters into the fire because of a few idiots. Kind of like this "Dilbert" cartoon:
...The men, both active duty and assigned to a submarine at Naval Base Kitsap-Bangor, had apparently taken Oxygen Breathing Apparatus equipment, Wilson said...
...Wilson said the men had apparently knocked off the tops of the canisters and were using them to "huff" or get high. The men were also apparently throwing the canisters onto an open fire in the yard in order to make them explode...
...Wilson said detectives were trying to find out all the details, adding that witnesses at the address "are not the most reliable." He said the men could be facing some "pretty serious" charges given the circumstances.
posted by Bubblehead at 8:26 PM
63 Comments:
Couldn't they have just gone to Walmart and purchased some Aquanet? That would have prevented the whole theft of federal property problem. This is one of the most amazingly stupid things I've heard lately.
I can't wait to tell my husband.
7/17/2010 8:46 PM
I thought that we were swapping out OBA's for SCBA's? These things are still used?
I've been out for a few years, BTW...
7/17/2010 8:50 PM
As an A-Gang chief on a Bangor boat, I obviously had the brief "Oh shit, were these two of my guys?" moment. Thankfully, they were not.
I don't even know where to get OBA canisters anymore, the last Trident to get SCBA's completed the ALT over a year ago.
Back to topic, these two buffoons clearly deserve whatever's coming their way
7/17/2010 9:08 PM
Oh Great!!...I'm sure we'll be hearing about this shit Monday morning. Actually I'm wondering where these two guys found OBAs to begin with. The real deal also contains a green canister (red for training) which needs CO2 in order to start and maintain your air supply.
This is like pouring Kerosene inside a beercan and throwing match sticks at it. If you're too close the shrapnel will nail you.
I'm not entirely certain If I should feel sorry for those idiots or not. Monday morning quarters should be somewhat entertaining though.
7/18/2010 12:32 AM
It looks like submariners weren't the only ones afflicted with attacks of poor judgment this weekend:
http://hamptonroads.com/2010/07/navy-identifies-seal-killed-base-jump-suffolk-cell-tower-0?cid=mr
Tinyurl version (links to Pilot online):
http://tinyurl.com/basejumpseal
I've been out for a long time: does the Naval Safety Center still write their tongue-in-cheek weekly "highlights" messages of sailors, marines and navy civilians who hurt themselves in preventable ways?
7/18/2010 3:11 AM
This isn't a matter of how these idiots misused government property. It's an issue of why they even stole it in the first place. Are these the types of submariners we are briging on board now-a-days? If these clowns would steal government property how can they be trusted to operate properly in a submarine environment.
7/18/2010 5:32 AM
First, I'd like to see a show of hands of current and/or former submariners who never did something absolutely stupid involving alcohol.
Kinda quiet out there I see.
Wherever they got them, the OBA canisters were obviously refuse and slated for a trash heap and/or destruction.
Still pretty fuckin' dumb you say? See the first paragraph above.
MY point is that these two guys are in CRITICAL condition and all you holier-than-thou types can think to do is throw stones at a couple of shipmates who may well die from this. Regardless of whether or not they're complete idiots or just your plain vanilla idiots, they're YOUR idiots, guys.
So who's being stupid? And doesn't being a hypocrite qualify as being stupid?
Good luck with that. You may well need it.
7/18/2010 9:57 AM
Stupid Is As Stupid Does,
Now that you have pitched your "compassion trumps all else" spiel, we probably know your gender preference, political persuasion and nonaffiliation with any military unit.
Do you realize that shrapnel from their mindless backyard explosion blew clear across the street to a popular coffee shop and gas station? These two idiots were lucky no one else was injured.
The highest and best use the navy can make of them now is as BAD EXAMPLES of childish behavior in adults masquerading as submariners: the worse their medical outcomes, the more powerful the example -- how is that for irony?
I am as mystified as ETCS(SS/SW) "Are these the types of submariners we are briging on board now-a-days?" The jerks that let them serve on subs in the first place deserve none of our compassion either.
7/18/2010 11:11 AM
Anon@1111:
Now that you have pitched your "compassion trumps all else" spiel, we probably know your gender preference, political persuasion and nonaffiliation with any military unit.
I'm with SIaSD... and if you tried to guess my sexual orientation or military service, you'd look like an idiot.
Compassion is not some kind of a sin (nor is SIaSD trying to elevate it above all slse). It might be a good idea if you got some help for your apparent deficiency thereof.
7/18/2010 12:00 PM
Anon@1111:
Now that you have pitched your "compassion trumps all else" spiel, we probably know your gender preference, political persuasion and nonaffiliation with any military unit.
That's strike one, two and three all at once, idiot. Have done more women than you ever will, never voted for a single Democrat in my entire long life, and wore dolphins for many years.
Even the professionals screw up when it comes to explosives...so a couple of dumbass submariners (and, speaking from experience, there are MANY) can certainly be explained away.
Example link: pro screw-up with explosives.
Drunk drivers kill a lot more people than submariners with OBAs and a short loadout when it comes to brains.
But go ahead and shit on everyone who's made a seriously stupid mistake, and get back to me when you're done. Might take a while.
In the meantime, you might want to stop by the hospital if you can and say a prayer for a couple of guys whose dumbass-edness may well cost them their lives. And say a particularly good one that it wasn't you...this time.
7/18/2010 1:10 PM
I hope they make out as intact as possible. That being said, throwing OBA canisters into a fire will almost always secure you a billet aboard the USS Darwin.
7/18/2010 2:19 PM
"And doesn't being a hypocrite qualify as being stupid?"
No, those are two different bad things, you ignoramus.
7/18/2010 2:38 PM
Above all else, what does this do to the watchbill?
Compassion for the weak and stupid is just that, weak and stupid.
7/18/2010 2:58 PM
Compassion for the weak and stupid is just that, weak and stupid.
Yep, good thing we're all supermen here.
7/18/2010 3:16 PM
McNubowitz
"... and if you tried to guess my sexual orientation or military service, you'd look like an idiot.
"
Cross-dresser, then?
Just kidding...could not resist!
7/18/2010 3:36 PM
I say we should blame their supervisors for not knowing what their guys are doing. With the level of intrusive leadership these days, how are people still screwing up? I don't think incidents like these are isolated to the idiots we have in the military in this day and age. I think it has always happened, and it just so happens that we have instant media now. They may have learned their lesson, but at a high cost, so why should we kick them while they are down. And going straight to the "compassion is for homosexuals and liberals" attack is just as childish. What happened to using your brain to operate a 4 billion dollar warship? Apparently if you aren't a macho man without emotions and a liking for touching someones dick, you are a substandard human. I'll pass. The first thought shouldn't be "let's hang them out to dry." It should be "i hope these idiots don't die."
7/18/2010 3:48 PM
"They may have learned their lesson, but at a high cost, so why should we kick them while they are down."
Because we are submariners and that is what we do...where have you been nub?
And I agree, how does this mess up the watchbill?
But to keep things positive...more available racks in berthing!!!
7/18/2010 3:56 PM
If all your boats had the shipalt, then it's a good chance all the OBA cartridges were supposed to go to DRMO for proper disposal. Is there a chance these two managed to "hold back" a few?
Byron
7/18/2010 4:06 PM
"The first thought shouldn't be let's hang them out to dry. It should be i hope these idiots don't die."
Mine was certainly sorrow for the sailors in intensive care; got over it in 5 seconds because touchy feely does little to actually stabilize or improve real life situations. In fact, emotion has been proven to actually interefere with attempts at clear-headed thinking.
If you must linger over injury, suffering or death, good luck in the military where folks with common sense have always known that things can get dangerous at almost any time.
We must do our sensitivity and compassion thing according to our personal religions. If you don't have religion, please don't try your secular sensitivity training and guilt-trip b.s. on the rest of us.
7/18/2010 4:20 PM
I think it's plausible that these dudes have never even really heard of an OBA. If all the SSBN's are converted, do OBA's exist in the fleet anywhere? Does sub school still talk about them?
It still makes them stupid, as I'm sure OBA's say "danger flammable" in bright letters somewhere, but so does a can of Aqua net, and the explosion from that is nowhere near as crazy as the one described here.
I'm also not sure of the logic behind trying to use to get high... but it's been a long time, and I don't remember how the canisters work anymore.
7/18/2010 5:20 PM
They may have been breathing into the OBA canisters simply to activate the O2 flow via CO2...but we'll all have to wait & see if they survive long enough to explain just how stupidly they were not-thinking.
7/18/2010 5:26 PM
Off-topic: best VA class video I've seen.
7/18/2010 6:02 PM
always be usefull of a safety stand down for great safe measure. i like it
7/18/2010 7:11 PM
I am so sad that the OBA's are gone, it was always entertaining during training to watch someone seal their mask in line before the instructor allowed them to start the reaction and then pass out.
7/18/2010 7:13 PM
Yes, their shipmates will be pissed off at the fact that they did something this stupid, but getting angry won't change anything either. As shipmates, we need to suck it up and wonder, why didn't anyone stop this? I bet it wasn't just these two boneheads at this party who were in the navy. They are also idiots for letting someone do something stupid. If they were the only two, well then there is nothing else anyone could have done. There is sometimes a fine line between fun and idiocy.
7/18/2010 8:23 PM
This explosion begs the question: who thought using these to fight fires in seriously enclosed spaces was a brilliant idea to begin with?
Always was amused by that particular cognitive disconnect. Just didn't realize they'd actually blow up so damned BIG.
7/18/2010 8:37 PM
Great. Got a call earlier today from the COB. Officer/LPO call will be an hour earlier tomorrow morning (0515) in order to re-arrange the POW and add a safety standown.
I guess I have to add item number 269 to my intrusive leadership liberty survival checklist (weekend version) (yes, there is a difference in weekday and weekend intrusive leadership checklists). #269 is just below "don't hump the 14 year old cheerleader without a condom" and "make sure your arm is inside the car before rolling up the windows". Yes, these are real items learned from real events.
If I was a civilian arond Kitsap County, I would definately question the ability of Sailors to guard the nuclear weapons and operate the nuclear reactors that sit in your backyard.
It's really getting hopeless! 8 months to retirement!
7/18/2010 9:18 PM
ETCS--
I got a call from my COB yesterday asking what lessons learned I was going to cover Monday morning with my guys....was less than enthused when I told him none, as my guys weren't the ones doing stupid stuff like tossing OBA cannisters into fire.
I have far more than 8 months until retirement, which makes me jealous of you
7/18/2010 10:00 PM
I was at a Bremerton dive shop earlier in the day signing my cousin up for camp when two guys in NWU's came in to pick up equipment (filled tanks, etc). Then this happened.
Coincidence?
7/19/2010 1:28 AM
I'd like to think that I have as much compassion as the next guy. I'm also not perfect... I've taken home my share of government pens during my time in the navy. I do admit I gave no thought to the sailor's physical predicaments. The first thought I gave was to the stupidity shown by these guys and the implications for idiots such as these serving on our submarines. It all goes back to that title of this thread, and of this blog... "The Stupid Shall Be Punished".
To reinforce the fact that I am not perfect, I'm going to jump off-thread here and piggy-back on Anon's post @ 07182010 0602:
At 1:14 in the video, the boat is underway and the MBT Vent covers are in place. Why? I've never seen this before.
John
7/19/2010 3:58 AM
While supervisors should look out for their guys and shipmates should look out for each other, it ultimately comes down to personal responsibility...which was clearly lacking in this case. Hopefully they'll recover and learn from this, and our other guys will realize not to be so stupid.
7/19/2010 6:00 AM
ETCS -
Your concern is correct, it's just your vision that is faulty. You are looking at the vent valves themselves, without covers installed.
7/19/2010 6:00 AM
Those vent valves are brandy-new in this video...so they're mighty shiny, that's all.
7/19/2010 7:04 AM
All these comments back and forth at each other - my! my! You'd think that that some of the posters here completely forgot the blog's name. Remember, in most things, the "STUPID" shall be punished!
7/19/2010 7:19 AM
Yes...and those who are even MORE STUPID try to take pleasure in the destruction of someone's life and, worse, make themselves out to be incapable of any stupidity.
Integrity is the thing to focus on in life...not stupidity.
7/19/2010 7:28 AM
SiaSd.. I'm usually somewhat reserved on the blog but it certainly seems that you need to swing by the 3" launcher space & see me for some nuclear popcorn before you blow a gasket.
7/19/2010 7:57 AM
ETCS(SS) - Bangor said...
..."don't hump the 14 year old cheerleader without a condom".....
Uh...shouldn't it be, "don't hump the 14 year old cheerleader AT ALL?"
7/19/2010 8:00 AM
Uh...shouldn't it be, "don't hump the 14 year old cheerleader AT ALL?"
Well what fun is that?
-LT L
7/19/2010 8:18 AM
Perhaps it is callous, but my first thought was NOT for the sailors who blew themselves up, it was for the family members of these idiots who may have to plan funerals for their loved ones because they couldn't resist the urge to be stupid. Certainly I have done stupid things in my life and I have suffered the consequences, but the last thing I needed was compassion for my stupidity. I needed, and got, someone who was willing to call stupidity when he saw it, jerk me up by the shorthairs and get me to realize the error of my ways. No, I don't wish death on these two sailors, but don't wait for me to shed tears over them either. They took government property, used it in a stupid fashion, and then took what they certainly knew to be dangerous material and tossed it in a fire! My compassion will be reserved for the mothers and fathers who may be left with the knowledge that their sons hastened their own demise in a phenomenally immature act. I cannot imagine what kind of pain they will have to endure when inevitably someone would ask "How did your son die?"
7/19/2010 10:51 AM
You know I've been out for a decade now...had no idea about the scba alt....
But my first thought wasn't concern for the kids or about a safety stand down - it was...."damn what a great story this will make".....
Afterall isn't that why we really put up with all of the time away, low pay and long hours....for the stories we can tell
7/19/2010 11:24 AM
It was Bush's fault!
7/19/2010 11:55 AM
@SiASD - 7/19/2010 7:28 AM
"Yes...and those who are even MORE STUPID try to take pleasure in the destruction of someone's life and, worse, make themselves out to be incapable of any stupidity."
- I take ZERO pleasure out of this incident and the fact that these sailors are injured and in the hospital. I also am capable of occassional stupidity; as 630-738 said, I've been fortunate to have people smarter than me take care of me when I needed a good kick in the ass. Don't we kick our shipmates in the ass anymore when they fuck up like this? I also agree with 630-738 that compassion belongs to the family of these sailors.
Again @SiASD:
"Integrity is the thing to focus on in life...not stupidity."
I totally agree with you on this point. Integrity is #1. And that is exactly what these sailors did not exhibit in this incident. Integrity is NOT stealing government property. Integrity is NOT misusing equipment you don't know the effect of. Integrity is NOT touching a switch or a valve or violating a tagout. These are things that are ingrained in all of us from day one. Isn't that still a basic tenet of submarining, or has that gone by the wayside now as well?
John
PS re: vent covers; I must admit that my vision is not as it once was and I went into trifocals only a month ago. Still the vent covers on my boats were always white. I've never seen vent valves as shiny as this... but then again have never been on a new construction boat either.
7/19/2010 12:11 PM
Mr. Darwin was a very smart fellow.
7/19/2010 12:35 PM
I've been out for a long time: does the Naval Safety Center still write their tongue-in-cheek weekly "highlights" messages of sailors, marines and navy civilians who hurt themselves in preventable ways?
Yes, those messages still get sent. Pretty good reading on occasion.
7/19/2010 2:30 PM
If the article is correct these fools consciously utilized a product, illegally obtained or not, for the purpose of getting high. The fact that they disposed of the cannister in a fire and got injured only brought to light that they would probably be getting high by other means if there were not testing for those.
7/19/2010 2:55 PM
Dear Anonymous Dumbass: the 'O' in OBA stands for oxygen...you know, that stuff that's not making its way to your brain enough...?
Excessive oxygen leads to oxygen toxicity...not "getting high."
Stop reacting to every idiotic thing you read that was written by a mainstream media 'jounalist' who probably failed every high school physics test they ever took.
Link: Oxygen toxicity
The two critically injured fellow dumbasses were likely breathing into the OBA canister in order to cause it to start generating oxygen flow, as it takes carbon dioxide to start that reaction.
7/19/2010 3:30 PM
If these guys were just being silly (albeit stupid) and tossed an OBA canister onto a fire to watch it explode, I might feel a little more sympathy for them.
I've been young & dumb before, tossed pieces of dye markers into the Thames to see them light up on the midwatch, misused goverment equipment for personal entertainment (SSXBT wire ALL over the pier one day comes to mind). I've made my share of bad decisions (with the scars to go with 'em). If I was 19 & I thought I could get away with it & the boat was throwing out old OBA canisters, I might toss one in the drink to see it do its thing. Probably wouldn't put 'em on a fire though...
Point is, I don't pretend to be pure as the driven snow, nor do I expect anyone else to be.
But according to the report, these two were HUFFING to get high. NOT in MY NAVY, not on my boat. End of discussion. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
I DO feel for their families and for the crews that will have to undergo yet another loss of productive time in the workday because of the safety standown training rammed down their throats.
This should be a 2 minute lesson learned (Don't huff stuff, don't steal stuff, don't be stupid w/ chemicals & fire) put out by the Chiefs to their guys as part of a routine muster spiel. In today's Navy though, many commands will be forced to undergo a knee-jerk mandated training and/or huggie-feelie session so the bosses can check the block that they've appropriately handled the aftermath of the incident.
7/19/2010 4:07 PM
Sorry, SIaSD, no sympathy here. If they did it because of ignorance, that's one issue. But OBA's are still taught in boot, and AFAIK, in Sub School. The fact they were INTENTIONALLY misusing them immediately negates any feelings of sympathy for them. Families, sure. Crewmates that have to pick up their slack, also yes. Just not them. Plus, as Doc mentioned, oxygen toxicity is NOT the same as "getting high". Think "burning your freaking brain". Other fun things that get to happen are detached retinas, collapsed aveoli, fun stuff like that.
7/19/2010 5:45 PM
SEAWOLF Sailors!
I guess when you are on a parts locker, there just isn't that much to do!
Good advancement opportunity for someone. Shouldn't be too hard to shine after these two. After all, if you blow yourself up then you are just average.
7/19/2010 5:49 PM
What kind of lesson could be learned from this? You can't teach "don't be stupid."
As far as compassion goes, if these jackasses had injured someone else, it would have been a tragedy. Blowing themselves up is pure comedy. Just a little bleach in the gene pool...
7/19/2010 6:11 PM
I've been out for a long time: does the Naval Safety Center still write their tongue-in-cheek weekly "highlights" messages of sailors, marines and navy civilians who hurt themselves in preventable ways?
Yes, those messages still get sent. Pretty good reading on occasion.
Yes they are :)
7/19/2010 6:25 PM
Two more become Washington state explosion casualties:
Two men burned here
7/19/2010 6:26 PM
How in the hell do you get high off OBA canisters? Wasn't their whole point of existing to provide a self contained breathable atmosphere where there wasn't one?
7/19/2010 6:31 PM
How in the hell do you get high off OBA canisters? Wasn't their whole point of existing to provide a self contained breathable atmosphere where there wasn't one?
Quite correct.
Good news: you can't "get high" from breathing off an OBA canister.
Bad news: you CAN get STUPID by believing every 'huffing' story written by dumbass, physics-flunking reporters who don't check their sources' validity.
7/19/2010 6:40 PM
Used to get a bit of a "lift" from hanging out by the O2 outlet by the Lab, but this takes the cake. Always heard stories about skimmers throwing OBA canisters off the fantail and such.
7/19/2010 7:12 PM
I doubt you can very effectively even get any more oxygen than "normal air" without the actual OBA mask itself.
7/19/2010 11:59 PM
Where did they learn this behavior from?
7/20/2010 6:27 AM
"First, I'd like to see a show of hands of current and/or former submariners who never did something absolutely stupid involving alcohol."
Here's my hand up.
14 years active duty submariner (still a reservist), never drank in my life. I've sure as heck driven a lot of shipmates back to the boat.
"These are your idiots"
Not any more. Boats get rid of guys like this for a reason.
Rackburn
7/20/2010 8:39 AM
"First, I'd like to see a show of hands of current and/or former submariners who never did something absolutely stupid involving alcohol."
Famous last words: "Hold my beer and watch THIS sh1t!!"
7/20/2010 11:51 AM
I'm with @stop-the-dumbass here, in that the purpose of an OBA canister is to breath into it, so the huffing thing doesn't make much sense. I've breathed many a canister in my years, and High is not how I would describe it. I have had to manually start an OBA by breathing into it.
Tridents are not the only boats in Bangor. One of the problems of the Seawolf class is since there are only three, they are last to get A&I's, and support. (Might be a great topic BH) I understand it was one of these boats that the two guys were on.
Finally, I am amused at the disparaging of "Theft and misuse of government property." On recent blogs, we had all manner of cup Olympics touted, and I'm not sure how many bubble-heads have made EB-green Godzilla's in their spare time. Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating taking stuff home, but if they hadn't tried to blow themselves up, we wouldn't be hassling an old OBA canister.
This is a real tragedy, and the individuals have burns to their lungs, and probably won't fully recover. Young and stupid continues to claim our sailors.
7/21/2010 2:54 AM
This explosion begs the question: who thought using these to fight fires in seriously enclosed spaces was a brilliant idea to begin with?
See ValueJet, HMS Tireless, Mir fire, etc... along with every commercial airliner out there, they all use similar oxygen generating compounds. It's simply a fact of life when you are stuck in a tube and need to create 'artificial' air.
OBA canisters contain Potassium Superoxide, which has been safely used in OBA's and Soyuz space capsules for decades. Carbon dioxide from the OBA wearer's exhaled breath is absorbed by the chemical and releases pure oxygen gas for the OBA wearer to rebreathe (inhale) so they can fight a fire. Submarines don't have the space to store air tanks that typical fire-fighters use.
That being said, the only thing you might get is a little more awake from the concentrated oxygen, certainly not high.
My guess is they wanted to blow it up, but had no idea of how energetic self-oxidizing compounds can be.
7/21/2010 5:28 PM
I'd like to buy ya a beer, old salt. Nicely put... the guys were indeed off of the Seawolf.
7/21/2010 10:46 PM
next thing you know, a couple of Submariners will take an O2 candle home and some shit like this will take place again.
and for the record, during my enlistment, i never did anything stupid like this. i knew if i kept my service record nice and clean, i would be honorably discharged and go to work for the US Government in a GS position.
P.A.P.E.R. C.L.I.P.
7/24/2010 8:54 AM
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