Keeping the blogosphere posted on the goings on of the world of submarines since late 2004... and mocking and belittling general foolishness wherever it may be found. Idaho's first and foremost submarine blog. (If you don't like something on this blog, please E-mail me; don't call me at home.)

Saturday, February 18, 2012

USS Wyoming (Gold) CO Relieved On "Slightly Accelerated" Schedule

From Navy Times:
The commanding officer of a Kings Bay, Ga.-based ballistic-missile submarine [USS Wyoming (SSBN 742)(Gold)] was fired Feb. 4 for mishandling classified materials, just three weeks before his scheduled relief, a Submarine Group 10 spokesman confirmed Friday.
Cmdr. Diego Hernandez was found guilty of dereliction of duty by Rear Adm. Joseph Tofalo, commander of SUBGRU 10 at admiral’s mast and relieved of command, SUBGRU 10 spokesman Lt. Brian Wierzbicki said.
His relief “was slightly accelerated due to some issues with the handling of classified information,” Wierzbicki said. “The whole case, due to the sensitive nature of the allegations, is all classified.”...
...Asked why SUBGRU 10 waited to release information until queried by Navy Times, Wierzbicki replied: “He wasn’t relieved for cause, though. There’s no DFC involved,” he said, referring to the administrative measure known as detachment for cause, which is used to quickly find a relief. “It was just accelerated.”
While I obviously don't know any specifics behind the classified material mishandling charge, this seems to be a little bit of piling on unless the powers that be are really trying to reinforce to all COs the specific importance of the mishandling of classified information. I always figured that the two reasons to relieve a CO early are 1) you don't believe he can fix the specific problem(s) on the boat, or 2) to send a message to current and future COs ("If you do this, you won't get a band"). To give someone a non-band relief three weeks early seems like a very clear message to send to his peers. On the other hand, if it was just a case of "he did something wrong, so we have to fire him because we always fire COs who do something mastable", I think this breeds the worst kind of "zero defect" mentality that could negatively affect the Force's war-fighting capability and could potentially limit a ship's self-reporting of problematic issues. (Not to mention it sends the message that "once someone goes to mast they're not really fit to be part of the crew anymore", a philosophy with which I strongly disagree.) I really hope that's not the case.

As always, remember any comments you make about a Submariner here can be read by their families or potential future employers, so please don't put out any rumors of bad behavior unless you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that they're true, and then only if they pertain to the subject at hand.

188 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Has to be more to the story than simple mismanagement of classified material. It too shall be revealed.

2/18/2012 1:17 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The "classified material" charges sound good when made up behind the doors of CSG-9 or CSG-10. But once they hit the light of day, they don't pass the smell test.

Turley and Hernandez both fired for the same charges (plus another CO last year in Bangor), each on different coasts? What are the odds? Has the force gone out of control? Can the force be trusted with nuclear weapons? Nuclear reactors? Can they be trusted with anything if they can't handle something simple like classified material?

Something else seems to be going on here. What are the common themes in both firings? someone needs to blow the whistle but Big Submarine has everyone scared.

Either way, the submarine force has a big problem. They are either covering up the real causes or it's something simple and we can't trust the crews out there. Not an enviable position either way.

2/18/2012 1:18 PM

 
Blogger Ret ANAV said...

In a recent conversation with a crewmember, the words "TS", "Spillage", a word that rhymes with 'OMBUDSMAN', "Picture" and "Facebook" were used in the same sentence.

2/18/2012 1:46 PM

 
Anonymous CommentGuy said...

The top of the force are telling us NOBODY is above the law.

Now tell me how that is a bad thing.

Oh and yes if classified material was compromised then charges should be brought and a sentence imposed if proven.

2/18/2012 2:42 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

@ anon 1:18 -
fact is, there is a helluva lot of over-classification going on IMO, especially in the NNPP area. I don't see the connection with the stuff that really matters, like reactor and weapons safety.

2/18/2012 3:02 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon @ 1:18 on 2/18/12--

The CO in Bangor last year, Varney, got fired for lying to his boss. He probably could have survived the classified info fiasco, since it was all from his time in Afghanistan years prior. He chose to lie and try to hide it, and was rightfully removed from command.

Turley didn't get fired for mishandling classified material, he was detached from the ship when his clearance flagged because his wife stopped paying his bills once she found out he was cheating on her. He was off the boat for a month before he went to mast for the middie thing.

I have no idea what the real story is with Hernandez.

Point is, the three different cases you're describing are just that: different. If you know what the hell actually happened, it DOES pass the smell test.

BTW, for all of the juicy tidbits on here the last few weeks about Dirty Dave, the real no-shit story is actually worse, if you can believe that...

2/18/2012 4:37 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I would like to hear the whole 'true' story if someone has it about Dave Turley. Worse or not. As to the WYO CO, I also heard second hand that schedule info was published on Facebook.

2/18/2012 5:32 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh like that's a secret.. 3 mos in, 3 mos out - repeat.

2/18/2012 5:41 PM

 
Anonymous submarinetroll said...

While they do not tell us what was mishandled, I was a COMSEC handler in my day. I remember from training that we were told any mishandling could lead to time in prison. But that was almost 25 years ago and the Cold War was still going on.

2/18/2012 7:27 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There are females on WYO... Crew has been heavily pressured NOT to discuss the details...

2/18/2012 8:32 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't know how it is now, but when I was in, if anyone in the CoC gave me an order to not discuss something that wasn't related to national security, I would have told 'em where to stick it. Pretty much everyone I served with would have done the same.

2/18/2012 9:43 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No scheduled information was posted on facebook. Pictures on a cd were sent to the ombudsman with orders to post them on the command facebook page. Ombudsman had in previous patrols refused to post pictures for fear of this but after getting a lot of pressure from Hernandez posted them.

2/18/2012 11:05 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Pictures of Sailors in the Engineroom? (guessing)

2/19/2012 2:02 AM

 
Blogger Ret ANAV said...

ER aint TS. More likely pictures in the Control Room (or NAVCTR?) with the VMS display in the background...wouldn't be the first time that has happened.

2/19/2012 4:51 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Somebody get the ombudsman on here so we can ask her about this and the women on the boat.

2/19/2012 10:47 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This was a perfect example of great intentions gone horribly wrong. The pictures were intended for the wives to see their husbands hard at work underway, however several process failures allowed some pictures to leave the boat that never should have been taken in the first place. It was not malicious nor intentional, it was a failure to properly screen the media prior to releasing it off of the boat. The Ombudsman is not a security expert, nor responsible for screening the material, she simply was doing as she was instructed to do, provide some pictures to her wives. Contrary to rumor, there was no schedule information released, and although somewhat irrelevant, it was not even deemed to be TS. I am curious as to why people are somehow tying in the women that are onboard into this, but I can say that they are well integrated and have absolutely nothing to do with this incident.

2/19/2012 11:27 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Something else seems to be going on here."

"TS" may a$$! You are talking about a submarine officer with 20 years (- few weeks) of promotable experience. Get a clue, gentlemen.

What was the rumor leading up to the firing announcement. Don't try to tell me the CO got sloppy with classified material at the very end.

Can we guess what was classified (not TS, by the way)? In his 20 years, what was NEW?!

Could anyone believe classification of administrivia regarding female crew? ...read by a chief on table in the WR ...whispered to goat locker ...shared with E-6.... loose lipped off duty... got back to wrong folks. From a civilian viewpoint, politics aside, suppose it never should have been classified in the first place under any former SECNAV.

Dunn

2/19/2012 2:05 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dunn -

Can you please try again in something approaching clarity?

2/19/2012 3:53 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I believe what Dunn is saying, is that the "classified material" charge is a bunch of BS to cover up the truth...whatever that truth may be. For some reason the Navy beleives the truth is not good enough for the public.

2/19/2012 4:53 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

DD was relieved for "classified material violations" too.

As we all know, that was not the whole story. A guy from my SOBC class has suggested that maybe the ladies are a little too well integrated.

2/19/2012 5:19 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

VMS is relatively new...as is lat/long displayable on screens in Sonar/FC with ARCI/BYG-1...maybe there was a screen in the background of a crew pic in one of those areas (or ControlCONN) while the boat was on Alert - the cruising grounds for patrolling BN's is still considered pretty classified even if fairly well known by those who have served on them.

2/19/2012 5:49 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hernandez had an, I am CO and therefor God complex. He left much to be desired when it came to "integrity", with his do as I say and not as I do leadership.

2/19/2012 6:49 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How would you even know that that the lat/longs were in patrol areas just by looking at the pictures? They could just be transiting.

2/19/2012 7:00 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

" A guy from my SOBC class ..."

Really? That's your 'inside source?'

2/19/2012 7:57 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How would you even know that that the lat/longs were in patrol areas just by looking at the pictures? They could just be transiting.

Depending on the picture, it would be obvious. The screen (forget what it is called) can show your past and projected track, & current position (to the seconds of arc) is in the corner. If taken with a decent camera, the details could be figured out by a geek wiypth little trouble, much less a foreign intelligence agency. But this is all guesswork. Like others have said, this could just be the cover story just like some have posited is the case with Dave Turley.

2/19/2012 8:40 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

" A guy from my SOBC class ..."

"Really? That's your 'inside source?'"

Haha, I was thinking the same thing! What the hell would someone in SOBC know? At best, they have a more senior buddy on the boat, but then you're STILL trusting an Ensign's perspective second-hand (nuff said).

Even SOAC is pretty well removed: guys just coming off shore duty, so at best they've heard second/third hand info IF they were assigned to TRF KB for a cushy shore job.

Still haven't heard anything from a crewmember of one of the boats with women onboard - its been said in earlier blogs but I suspect there's still nothing truly newsworthy coming out from female integration in subs.

2/19/2012 9:04 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, except for the COB that was fucking a midshipman underway.

This is at least tangentially related. Obviously most situations are not going to be a disaster. Just like most female SWOs are not disasters. But there will be a few

2/20/2012 5:02 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Haha, I was thinking the same thing! What the hell would someone in SOBC know? At best, they have a more senior buddy on the boat, but then you're STILL trusting an Ensign's perspective second-hand (nuff said)."

Guys from my SOBC class are now starting their training to become DHs. Did it ever occur to you that the other guy is himself one of those "more senior budd[ies]?"

2/20/2012 6:26 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm not, nor have I ever been involved with the sub community. So take whaat I say with a grain of salt: It all sounds like a bunch of oldladie gossipn'. Disgusting!

2/20/2012 7:21 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

@7:21 AM Anon: If you're seeking enlightenment, you might want to look somewhere besides a submariner blog. Maybe there's a "Skimmers 'Я Us" blog somewhere that you can read all about their experiences with women on ships. With their sub-100 IQ levels, I hear they've got that stuff all figured out.

2/20/2012 7:37 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is called scuttlebutt, and Sailors have done it for hundreds of years. Get over yourself. Non-submariners are welcome here to a degree, but lurking in the background to take a potshots now and again is more disgusting to me than a group of us chatting about things that pertain to our Submarine Force on a blog.

2/20/2012 7:41 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I'm not, nor have I ever been involved with the sub community. So take whaat I say with a grain of salt: It all sounds like a bunch of oldladie gossipn'. Disgusting!"

You are either a skimmer cook or officer...which is it (not that there is much of a difference)? Or worse, you are Mulligan in drag!

2/20/2012 8:35 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Now, now littlebubbleheads.... Go back and play nice or else... In other news... any word on one star promotions?

2/20/2012 9:16 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hernandez was relieved as an example to other CO's to get your act together because there have been so many classified leaks. He was a message to Big Submarine that CSG10 has control of the situation in Kings Bay. It does involve more than just pictures on Facebook. It does not involve any of the females onboard. Big Navy just wants it kept quiet because they do not want any negative press associated with a command that has female crew members.

2/20/2012 9:45 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wink... Wink..... I said everything is OK Wink.... Wink... Oyveh..... How does big navy think the rest of us are Ritards and don't know there are bigger factors involved... Yawn... some things never change..

2/20/2012 9:59 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I heard we only got 3 picks. Bob Burke? Chas Richards? Who else?

2/20/2012 11:34 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I bet Clark is the third.

2/20/2012 12:08 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Cas Richard?! You gotta be fucking kidding me. Have we sunk that low that there was no one else to pick?

2/20/2012 12:17 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What's wrong with Chas? CSL COS usually makes it.

2/20/2012 12:42 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No kidding, Chas was a great CO.

2/20/2012 1:10 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bob Burke....pathetic. Another Tony Watson in the making. He follows in the line of many others like Scott Bawden. The Sub Force loves them some philanderers!

2/20/2012 1:11 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I heard we are only getting two picks. I even money in the Sub Force is on Bob Burke and Chas Richard.

But I am betting on Richard and Clark if we only get two.

2/20/2012 1:40 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I heard we are only getting two picks. The even money in the Sub Force is on Bob Burke and Chas Richard.

But I am betting on Richard and Clark if we only get two.

2/20/2012 1:42 PM

 
Anonymous mark/MM1(ss) said...

anon @1:11 - you provide no context to your anonymous charge, but if you don't know the behavior was "prejudicial to good order and discipline", you should grow up and shut the fuck up.

2/20/2012 1:46 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

@Annon 01:10

Great CO?! I hope you're being sarcastic, and I'm not sure if you were on the same boat as I was, so let me break it down:

- went through 4 ENGs during his tour, to include one who he gave a nervous breakdown in his stateroom.

- hazarded a vessel during Mission 2002 in order to feed his own ego, and causing the ship to have to turn around in Hood Canal after 120 days to fix his problem. I'm till not sure how he survived the JAGMAN and got an LoM for it; definitely left me loosing faith in Submarine Force leadership.

- Gave an abusive XO a LoM. Afterwards that XO was relieved for cause after falsifying nuclear records – a similar occurrence that happened on 683 (remember ELT Joe?).

- Absolutely demoralized the Wardroom, including an incident of public humiliation of the CRA during the resin supply issue that remains the prototypical "if this is what it takes to succeed in the Navy, I want to be a failure" moment.

Those are the big ones I remember; there are many more smaller ones.

2/20/2012 4:12 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Most on the 742G do not know the entire story with why Hernandez was fired. Nobody has really addressed it straight out so we have a bunch of rumors floating around, sprinkled with the small amount of truth they fed us. So far the women are not an issue. It's weird to hear them in drills. Haven't done a full underway yet though.

2/20/2012 7:38 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Chas ran into one of my JO's during shore duty, and told him to go through an O-4 or O-5 before speaking to him at a conference. Glad to see his open door policy is live and well. Seems like the guy who steps on whoever he wants. Not the biggest fan, but he of course punched his tickets so he will likely make it. Besides, I think he is at least 1/4 or more hispanic so he will help us make the diversity quota if its true; which would get big navy off of our case for a year...day maybe. Not hustling though, proud native american here and its always helped.

Clark was always a straight shooter, granted a lot of the things he said I didnt care for, but the guy at least had a spine from time to time, which is more than I can say for most nowadays.

2/20/2012 7:39 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

...Talked to a buddy of mine on one of the integrated boats. Off the record, they are basically being sequestered for any male/female issues that arise. Basically if there is an issue, the COB will take anyone to mast who lets rumors fly or speaks to the public not through squadron..Not sure if the same for all boats or maybe just one CYA.

2/20/2012 7:42 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Which Clark are we talking about? Bob Clark USNA Commandant? Interesting choice between three jobs that usually make flag - CSDS-12 (Burke), CSL COS (Richards), and USNA Dant (Clark)- if we only got two picks. Tough call.

2/21/2012 5:25 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

All 3 listed above suck and would be bad for the Sub Force.

2/21/2012 5:55 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So who would you pick?

2/21/2012 6:09 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dant Clark.....

2/21/2012 6:41 AM

 
Anonymous Former CT Sailor said...

My bet's on Clark ... tough personality but has intestinal fortitude ...

2/21/2012 7:01 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Chris Kaiser

2/21/2012 7:04 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Basically if there is an issue, the COB will take anyone to mast who lets rumors fly or speaks to the public not through squadron..."

And what...pray tell...is the charge for such behavior? Telling the truth?

We've entered a very strange dimension here. And I don't think it has anything to do with combat readiness.

2/21/2012 7:10 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bret Genoble?

2/21/2012 7:19 AM

 
Blogger Suporna Roy said...

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2/21/2012 7:36 AM

 
Anonymous Really are U Serious!! said...

I know as a former crew member that this was a long time in the making for the CO. Just surprised that it did not happen sooner. They had a lot of issues handling classified info. Crewmembers taking TS home and forgetting about it was one of my favorites. Had to tear the boat apart many times looking for that crap that wasn't even on board. This poor CO was surronded by idiots and did not make the changes that he should have to save his own ass. His lack of leadership was what brought him down not some female felatianous being swept under the rug.

2/21/2012 9:37 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow, I cannot even imagine taking TS home. Why??

Stupid is as stupid does, my friends.

2/21/2012 11:56 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Soooooo the ex CO will be in line for Flag is what you are saying.. HaHa

2/21/2012 12:34 PM

 
Anonymous Really are U Serious!! said...

Im not sure he will be in line for a Flag. It was just a matter of convience that he was relieved. A lot of time they just move the problem elsewhere and seek new leadership when things go sour. Look at every major incident. People up and down Im sure were responsible for the reason this poor smuck was relieved. I beleive there were flaws that were ignored up and down the chain of command. Numerous times we got "help" from squadron to try to fix the problems. But really the only thing they did was put there finger in a dike and ignore the flood of the numerous problems with the crew. Many hours were wasted trying to correct the deficiencies of this command. He will probably go on to his next assignment and warm a chair for the rest of his career. Since no one was hurt or killed and the nature of the security violations didnt place info in the wrong hands, he was administrative relieved instead of departed for cause. Plus I believe since the other crew had a hand in the material it would be hard to fire both CO's and not take a hard look at the squadron too. So once again the powers at be felt this would be the "quieter way" of handling it. Rather than starting a bigger more embarassing investigation.

2/21/2012 12:56 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"But really the only thing they did was put there finger in a dike"

So there were women involved... HEYOOOOOOO

2/21/2012 1:07 PM

 
Anonymous Really are U Serious!! said...

Not that I know of I left the command last year prior to the integration. This command was screwed up and down the chain. It wouldnt surprise me though.

2/21/2012 1:39 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Really, Anonymous at 1:07 - what an idiotic comment for so many reasons. Not the least of which is confusing "there" with "their".

And while there may be more to the story than meets the eye, I find it fascinating that it immediately is attributed to the addition of women to the crew. How on earth did COs (and COBs, and others) screw up and lose their jobs prior to crew integration?

2/21/2012 2:20 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To Anonymous at 2:20

Really? Getting your panties in knot over the fact that Anon 1:07 failed put a (sic) after "there"? It was a direct quote you know!

BTW, anon 1:07, I thought it was pretty funny (-;

Old Chief from the dark ages
Jerry

2/21/2012 2:30 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Bag of D
I was quoting the post above mine, bag.. As you can read (hopefully) I DID use the correct there... Sincerely,, Ringknocker

2/21/2012 2:31 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How on earth did COs (and COBs, and others) screw up and lose their jobs prior to crew integration?


Simple,
Visiting Middies

2/21/2012 2:33 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"But really the only thing they did was put there finger in a dike"

So there were women involved... HEYOOOOOOO"

That IS funny!

2/21/2012 6:45 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The CO will make flag. Subforce has to comply with the CNO's initiative to make 35% of flags meet diversity requirements by 2020. We dont have that many to chose from and since no DFC, he'll still make flag.

2/21/2012 6:48 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How on earth did COs (and COBs, and others) screw up and lose their jobs prior to crew integration?

Don't you have a tampon to change?

2/21/2012 6:55 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is what I heard at the smokepit today so take it for what it's worth. There were multiple cd's that left the boat over a period of several months, most all contained classified information. They were marked unclassified and sent to the ombudsman. From what I hear on her is that she refused to post pictures on facebook during a previous patrol and got chewed up over not following orders. Evidently she advised Hernandez that she was not ok with tossing out 100's of pictures all over the internet and questioned the security of them. She only posted that one cd this past patrol after H pushed her to do it. The guy should have listened to the advice of his ombudsman, seems she was the smarter of the two.

2/21/2012 9:03 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Are our Senior Leaders meeting the standard in judging mistakes laid out by John Paul Jones to "distinguish error from malice, thoughtlessness from incompetency, and well-meant shortcoming from heedless or stupid blunder." Only the second set of mistakes should be career ending in my view.

More Scuttlebutt over at my place.

http://navyscuttlebutt.blogspot.com

Firstmate

2/22/2012 12:45 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To anon at 12:45.

Agree that the quote is a good one. However, suggest you do some research. That quote was long ago proved not to be from John Paul Jones, but rather from one of his biographers (essentially).

2/22/2012 5:17 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The ombudsman got chewed out for not following orders?

WTF?

Someone help me understand this statement - as I remember it the ombudsman was a civilian, not someone in the military so they were not underneath anyone's "orders". I also cannot recall if they were being paid or if it was a volunteer gig, in which case I would have laughed my ass off if anyone had tried to "order" me to do anything that I did not want to.

Or are we talking about an ombudsman that is in the Navy??

2/22/2012 6:28 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Clark

2/22/2012 6:30 AM

 
Anonymous Dardar the Submarian said...

anonymous@6:28 AM

Do you even know what an ombudsman does?

Seriously! Yes it is volunteer, but with that goes a GREAT deal of responsibility - least of which is to ensure classified material doesn't leak.

"I would have laughed my ass off if anyone had tried to "order" me to do anything that I did not want to."

What an ignorant fucking comment. We almost lost a liberty call because 2 wives were talking about it in the Cracker Barrel at a luncheon. I guess they did it because they couldn't be ordered around by anyone. Unfortunately the wrong person heard them.

You are that same skimmer puke from earlier, aren't you?

2/22/2012 7:47 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You missed the point of my comment.

Apparently you are fuzzy on the concept of "chain of command"

If I am doing something that I have "volunteered" to do, I am not in anyone's chain of command and therefore I am not going to sit idly by and allow anyone to berate me for failing to do something that they somehow believe that they can "order" me to do.

Its actually very simple - either the Ombbudsman are under the chain of command (thus subject to the "orders") or they are not. If not, then they are not subject to "orders"....if you want them to do something then you might have to approach it with some other management tool than "orders".

Good grief. Typical nuke response - shoot the questioner and disparage their level of knowledge. Anything at all to avoid answering the question.

2/22/2012 8:48 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Shut your piehole.... That's an order

2/22/2012 8:55 AM

 
Anonymous YNC(SS), USN, Retired said...

Been away from stuff for a long time; 25 years retired to be exact. That said, my late Bride was Ombudsman just prior to, during, and for a time after my last WESTPAC on SSN fish.

That was not a paid position; strictly volunteer. Not in chain of command. If anybody in the "chain of command" tried to push her around, she would have told them to go pound sand; a term that sweet Utah girl learned from me.

If they didn't like her response they could just go find another volunteer.

2/22/2012 10:15 AM

 
Anonymous NHSparky said...

Just further evidence that social media when not used properly is a REAL BAD IDEA.

TSSBP.

2/22/2012 11:37 AM

 
Anonymous EMC(SS) said...

You're right. Strictly speaking, she's not in the Chain of Command. However, she is in a position of trust that you freely admitted was a position she voluntarily put herself into. Being placed in a position of trust like that absolutely carries responsibilities with it. One of those responsibilities would absolutely be using some common sense when it come to dissemination of information that you receive due to that position of trust.

And I agree, Chris Kaiser would in a perfect world make flag. I worked for him twice. Once on the boat and once at SUBRON7. Great guy. Great officer.

2/22/2012 5:12 PM

 
Anonymous Really are U Serious!! said...

Apparently you people did'nt read my privious post. This was a long time coming. There were a lot of lapses with information security prior to this. This was the straw that broke the camels back. This was a snowball effect. Then the new CO reported and Im sure he had questions. So instead of a lot of people being held accountable because not only the CO has to deal with info on a patrol to patrol basis. They made him the fall guy to keep from embarassing a lot of people and the Navy as a whole. The info was in the past was stuff that was recovered and nothing intentional was leaked to the wrong hands, Just miss handling of info. No one was hurt and the CO was not directly involved in the TS problems. Just that he did'nt ensure that the ones handling the info were not trained in handling the info. A lot of ignorant junior personell were involved and were trusted when they should'nt have been.

2/22/2012 5:48 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Really are U Serious!! said...
Apparently you people did'nt read my privious post"

Obviously you are not on this command or you would know your statement is so far off the mark its not worth the time you spent typing it! The "Charge of Command" goes farther than being a fall guy. There were definite pocesses put into place that were bypassed. This blog is great, it gives you a chance to blurr the vision of those looking down to the command when you do not know the facts.

"TSSBW" ("The stupid shall be writing")

2/23/2012 4:31 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

YOU WANT THE TRUTH?
You Can't handle the TruF..
Oh and Kaiser Sose and Clark

2/23/2012 5:20 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Really R U serious seems like he is taking reasoning right out of Captains Queeg's book of excuses. rlionta asentrun

2/23/2012 1:30 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes I am serious and don't call me Shirley

2/23/2012 2:30 PM

 
Anonymous researchpaperstar.com said...

Very nice psot!

2/23/2012 2:32 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A skimmer and his family are vacationing on Oahu at an ACDU campsite by Kaneohe beach when the little boy spots two dogs having sex on the grass. He asks his dad: "What's happening there?"

The father lamely explains: "One dog doesn't want to go home and the other is pushing it."

"I see," says the boy. "It's a bit like Mom yesterday. It's a good thing she was holding on to the sink or that submarine guy from next door could have forced her to go diving."

2/23/2012 5:31 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Over the 1MC, "On your knees, Prepart to snorkle"

2/24/2012 6:13 AM

 
Anonymous Really are U serious said...

Anonymous said...
"Really are U Serious!! said...
Apparently you people did'nt read my privious post"

Obviously you are not on this command or you would know your statement is so far off the mark its not worth the time you spent typing it! The "Charge of Command" goes farther than being a fall guy. There were definite pocesses put into place that were bypassed.

Apparently I was part of this command. This was the incident that got him axed along with all of the other lapses in security. As usual squadron knew of the issues prior to this incident and decided to sit with thier thumb up their ass before doing something about it. Information security is everybodies responsibilty. It is the CO's for the ship. But when squadron knows of problems and ignore them til it is too late is why this guy got fired. The CO's whole wardroom was inadequate in handling classified material. Im not making up excuses for the CO. The other crew had a hand in it to. Instead of firing 2 CO's they got rid of 1. To save a lot of cushy jobs at squadron and not point the finger at useless shore duty fags hugging a desk when they are at the root of the problem and not policing the boats like they should be doing. Are they not thier to help? Once again someone spewing at the mouth that is probably sitting in one of those chairs instead of going to sea and earning a paycheck. Sit at home and shut your mouth!

2/24/2012 6:45 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Don;t hold back ANON... Tell us how you really feel..

2/24/2012 6:50 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The other crew had nothing to do with this incident at all. All they did was hand the Ombudsman her guardmail.

2/24/2012 7:11 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

@ Anonymous 6:45 AM

We so not need more squadron hand holding. Enough of it is going on already.

How about this... take a deep breath... we do our jobs the way we have been trained?? Hand holding is for parents and children. We are grown ass men and need to be acting accordingly or stop volunteering for hard jobs that involve lives and million dollar equipment.

Being a submariner is rough. If it was easy, everyone would be doing it.

2/24/2012 8:07 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Amen

2/24/2012 10:16 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

and Amen... Close the post and move out, i's Friday!

2/24/2012 1:22 PM

 
Blogger Harold said...

Anonymous at
2/23/2012 5:31 PM

LoL! Got to remember that one

2/24/2012 10:30 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Say what you will but I happen to think that Hernandez was a great CO. Did he have his nuances? I am sure that he did. The only thing he is guilty of is not "micro-managing" his crew. He expected them to do the job that they are there to perform. I personally think that he got the bum end of the deal, and he should not have been relieved 2 weeks prior to his change of command. If anyone was deserving of a "band" it was him. He will go on to bigger and better things than making flag. He's a great guy and did what he did with good intentions for his command's families. I will always be thankful that I got my "dolphins" from him. So unless you are intimate with the details you shouldn't be so quick to judge and try to hang the guy out to dry. He WAS a fall guy for a vindictive asshole and that's what I think about that. Good night Gentleman...and ok now you can close your post.

2/25/2012 12:22 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Vindictive Asshole"? Don't leave us all hanging....Who was that?

2/25/2012 6:58 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Back to flag picks - Burke and Richards. Bet on it.

2/25/2012 8:06 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

That vindictive asshole is the Commodore of 20. He had a personal vendetta against Hernandez, this incident came along and he seized onto it to get rid of the guy. He made up his mind on what the end result of the investigation was going to be before he ever heard Hernandez's side or the investigation was complete. Which is why the new CO was all ready to do a turnover the day of DH's mast. That new guy wasn't already here, 20 brought him down early because they knew way ahead of time they were going to relieve Hernandez. That Navy times article was a freaking joke. The Commodore also happens to be a hypocrite. I mean come on let's preach personal integrity and military bearing to our boats...gotta make sure your hair is cut and your boots are shined, but hey while you guys do that I am going to leave my fucking CAC card in my computer and cause my own security violations. He leaves his cac card in there so frequently that it is a running joke, you know.."don't forget to grab your cac today" and his staff has to regularly drive out to the gate to bring him on base. This guy has no clue what is going on with the Wyoming, but he has installed his own puppet at the helm to fix shit that ain't broke and ignore the shit that is broke. And before people start knocking on the Wyoming and their "security violations" they better take a real good look at all of the boats on the waterfront. Then go back and look at that cac card in the computer all damn day and night. Great example to set there Commodore. So, yes our crew will look pretty underway with there shiny boots and shaved faces but they still will not be properly trained on how to handle classified materials. And you wonder why the standard of the Navy has declined over the last 10yrs? Hmmm I wonder. Maybe you should stop your self serving, political game, and take a real good look around at the fucking joke that you "Big Navy" types are making of the Navy today. You are so truly removed from the crew, their weaknesses, and their concerns it's mind boggling. You wonder why retention is so low? Because your guys are fucking miserable. The morale is so low on that boat right now, not even the big bonus' of a nuke can keep them in. Too bad the guys that really count are too fucking afraid to say how they really feel. Fuck not even the Chief's will tell the higher ups what is really on their mind and the minds of the crew. It is truly sad. Gotta play the fucking political game and dance around the real issues. Once again though, when we go underway, we are going to look damn good while we fuck up again and again. So dear Commodore open your eyes and get a fucking clue...YOUR GUYS ARE MISERABLE..make yourself approachable and actually LISTEN to the concerns of the enlisted and you might actually do some good. It's really sad that the higher your officer rank is, the farther removed you are from the real concerns of the Navy, not Big Navy, you know the living breathing ones that man your Navy. Yep true colors are shining like a mother fucking rainbow.

2/25/2012 10:36 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Holloway?

2/25/2012 10:43 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well....alrighty, then!

2/25/2012 10:47 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A San Diego skimmer and his wife who lived very near Point Loma had two beautiful and intelligent daughters, but always talked about having a son. They decided to try one last time for the son they always wanted.

Despite what the doctors diagnosed as the father having a low sperm count, the wife finally got pregnant and delivered a healthy baby boy while the father was out to sea on local ops.

The joyful father rushed to the nursery upon RTP to see his new son. But he was horrified at the sight of the ugliest and most lethargic child he had ever seen.

Says he to the wife: "There's no way I can be the father of this baby. Look at the two smart and beautiful daughters I fathered! Have you been screwing around behind my back?"

The wife smiled sweetly and replied, "Honest, honey...not this time!"

2/25/2012 11:39 AM

 
Blogger Mike Mulligan said...

Dad? I thought i never would meet you?

2/25/2012 4:57 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Don't worry Mulligan, your parents didn't have any kids that lived!

2/25/2012 8:26 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon @ 2/25/2012 10:36 AM

Life must really be in the dumpster if you are reaching out to my command and saying we are the ones who removed the CO? Think about what you are saying, step back a second and read what you wrote. Your a complete moron. You ramble on about things that are not important. Your command lacked the basic fundamentals, and when your totally screwed up, thats where you start when trying to repair the damage. Don't ever forget your in the military. Standards and Integrity are the base for which we operate. Never forget, your CO chose to circumvent the system, chose to ignore those who could have prevented these issues and last but not least and your COC looked the other way when this was going on. So don't talk about my Commodore coming down with a vindictive agenda, he didnt do the crime. He chose to hold those guilty accountable.
If you would rather float around with a beard, wear whatever you want and get paid by the hour, join the merchant marines , I am sure they accomodate your type of standards. Stand up and use what little intestinal fortitude you have and ask to be heard, don't spray a bunch insignificant accusations around when obvious your IQ is not high to speak professionally.
Let your LPO know you have just been counseled and get it into your record, it will better you in the long run!

2/26/2012 7:27 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

@ Anon 2/26/2012 7:27am

Well said Commodore Holloway. Now go get you CAC card at the office!

2/26/2012 7:56 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Obviously my IQ is high enough to at least type my ramblings in correct grammar. They do have a spell check on here and most people proof read before they hit "enter". Let me ask you this, you never had a beard underway? You never wore tennis shoes? Did I complain one bit about pay? Did I complain one bit about the fact that my next underway I can't grow a mustache and wear crocs? No, I didn't. Go reread what I said. Stop being so defensive because you know what I typed is the truth. Tell my LPO that I just got counseled? Really? So, that's how you work? When you do not have an intelligent argument you resort to trying to "school" me or humiliate me? Oops didn't work. I fully think that Hernandez should have been reprimanded. He is the CO and it is his boat. There obviously are deficiencies onboard and have been for awhile. To remove Hernandez two weeks before his change of command though was petty vindictiveness. His career was ruined after this, he will not go on to bigger things in the Navy. The crew needed to have that change of command just as much as Hernandez. Why was Hernandez the only one to be removed? What about all the others that got slaps on their wrists? It was their job to screen the material being sent off the boat. It's your attitude, that what I spoke was nonsense, that is sending the Navy in a downward spiral. So, yeah, whoa there big boy, and you go back and read what I said. I never said I wanted to be slovenly. I said, if you are going to preach personal integrity then you should start practicing it yourself. I know full well that there are issues onboard, never said otherwise. Spending hours though on training for military bearing and appearance standards does not exactly fix blazing logs and mishandling materials.

2/26/2012 8:49 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon @ 2/24/2012 6:45 AM

Hey try sitting at one of those chairs at a Squadron, when all you do is go to sea and fix everyones' problems!

TSSBCT
(The stupid shall be constantly trained)

2/26/2012 9:26 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon@ 2/26/2012 8:49 AM

I bet he puts on full bird and goes farther than most!

2/26/2012 9:29 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Old news...whats next!There has got to be new "blog worthy" material out there!

2/26/2012 9:45 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I score it: Boat: 2 Squadron: 1

Wow. There sounds like there are more issues here than meet the eye, both on the boat and at Squadron 20.

One thing I agree with though, if the squadron is worried about facial hair and footwear, then someone has way too much time on their hands.

Prediction: Since Kings Bay Big Sub reads this blog, more internet media guidance to follow this coming week.

Now grab those CAC cards and shave those faces (guys only...I think?)!

2/26/2012 9:48 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

" I fully think that Hernandez should have been reprimanded. He is the CO and it is his boat. There obviously are deficiencies onboard and have been for awhile. To remove Hernandez two weeks before his change of command though was petty vindictiveness. His career was ruined after this, he will not go on to bigger things in the Navy."

What do you think a reprimand would have done to his career? Do you think the Navy just laughs those off for officers?

2/26/2012 10:04 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I wasn't implying that the change of command two weeks early is what ruined his career. I was saying that this incident did that. I know very well what a reprimand can do to an officer.

2/26/2012 10:15 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Call the MCPON, facial hair for everyone! Make a Blue digital(or whatever it is)colored Croc for the officers to wear. The enlisted can wear slippers. Develop some new camp fire songs, and let Squadron come out and teach them to us!Don't forget to have "personal feelings hurt" chits available for the thin skinned ones and the ones that don't complain send them to the galley to crank! Yes! the future is bright with a few suttle changes!

2/26/2012 10:18 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Let's see, no facial hair and no "civie" shoes. What about poopie suits and "non-issue" undershirts?

SSDD. This is exactly the kind of petty BS that told me it was time to GTFO after six years. If I couldn't go to sea and do my job well without some dickwad, on the boat or at squadron, worried about whether I shaved or was wearing mil-standard clothing WHILE I WAS SUBMERGED >400 FEET, it was time to bid the Canoe Club a farewell. I can see things haven't changed much.

2/26/2012 1:38 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon@2/26/2012 1:38 PM

Military-rules
Civilian- no rules.

Don't worry the military is not for everyone.

Wheres my CAAC card?

2/26/2012 3:54 PM

 
Blogger Harold said...

Anonymous said...
Anon@2/26/2012 1:38 PM

Military-rules
Civilian- no rules.

Wrong! WRONG!

Miltary-rules
Civilian-different rules

And the military rules are actually easier to understand, and if you break them, someone's got to actually prove them.

Take a look around the blogging world at nightmares in academia. Such as Duke lacrosse players. For only one.

And favoritism in CIVLANT is much more rampant then in the military. Just one I'm familiar with. http://www.cs.ny.gov/elmspublic/all/list.cfm?Exam=34882 From the A list, 16 with 90's or better not appointed, 3 with 75's or 80's have been. On the B list, it's just as bad. 2 people appointed with 75-80, 2 with 95. This list is worse http://www.cs.ny.gov/elmspublic/all/list.cfm?Exam=34881. The state of NY allows any of the top 3 scorers who are willing to interview to get the job. Which means if there is a 95, a 92.5, and 13 80's who say yes to an interview, any of the 13 80's can be hired. So, apparently, those 75's with a job know MUCH more than the 95's and 100's w/o. I'm on both lists, inactive. I no longer work for the state. My 95 was rapidly geeting me nowhere.

And a BTW- a PUE2 has less responibility than a MM2/BT2, a PUE3 about the same as an MM1/BT1. But you are not allowed to take the tests until you have been a PUE1.

2/26/2012 6:04 PM

 
Blogger SJV said...

1. Duke Lacrosse players are not academia.
2. Exam scores are only part of being qualified for a job. Most times the pinheads are harder to work with because they think they are smarter than everyone else. Took me 20 years to figure out how smart I was had little to do with getting the job done.
3. WTF are you talking about? PUE321? Prissy usta be enlisted? Pretty un-effective?

2/26/2012 6:26 PM

 
Blogger Harold said...

SJV said...
1. Duke Lacrosse players are not academia.
2. Exam scores are only part of being qualified for a job. Most times the pinheads are harder to work with because they think they are smarter than everyone else. Took me 20 years to figure out how smart I was had little to do with getting the job done.
3. WTF are you talking about? PUE321? Prissy usta be enlisted? Pretty un-effective?

1. Uhh- the Duke lacrosse travesty most certainly occurred with academia. ounced out of school. Guilty until proven innocent. Gang of 70 (or therabouts) professors from Duke calling for their head.
2. Based on your reply, I's say you have a hard time working with anyone smarter than you, such as a box of rocks.
3. PUE= Plant Utilities Engineer. And the links were the exam lists. Should have been clear about that. Ex-enlisted military has a real tough time being promoted within the state of NY system. We understand that we take out oath to the State of NY, and work for the people of NY, not the administrators above us. When we reported to the administrator that several hundred pounds of refrigerant were missing, we didn't realize that one of the PUE's was working on his apartment units. He asked for all the collected evidence, which promptly disappeared.

Any other smart-ass remarks you'd like to add?

I don't have trouble working with people smarter than me like you do. The trick is- treat them just like people. Try it sometime. I also don't have problems with the not so smart- as long as they are doing their jobs.

2/26/2012 6:48 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

While I was reading this blog about the Wyoming CO, I realized I was no longer in Kansas, and some old fart was telling us how he couldn't advance up the working class in NY because he has trouble talking to a box of rocks or something? Hey stick with the program, we don't care if your a PEU chief in upstate NY or what you do. Stay focused, no wonder you cant advance. WOW!

2/26/2012 7:02 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey give that guy from NY a job and a CAAC card!

2/26/2012 7:03 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The problem I have is Squadron knew about these longstandin and recurrent problems and instead of helping they are just pointing out deficiencies (shaves @ shoe polish underway...please) and making their E-penis bigger with a penis pump that is sucking the life out of the crew.

2/26/2012 8:40 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

2/26/2012 8:40 PM

Nice choice of words.

TSSBP

2/26/2012 8:49 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

For Anon 2/26/2012 10:04 AM

Look at what a reprimand did for this guy.

http://www.navytimes.com/news/2012/02/navy-reserve-flag-friendly-fire-nominee-controversy-dorsey-022012w/

and here

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/feb/23/navy-aviators-career-soars-pilot-he-downed-suffers/?page=all

2/27/2012 7:36 AM

 
Blogger SJV said...

@Harold. The more you write the more you confirm my comments. But back on topic, part of what was drilled into my head as a nuke was that we would be held to a higher standard, and if we didn't meet it we'd get busted. I've got no issues with DFC or early relief on any CO who isn't pushing hard to make his crew do things the right way. Letting violations go without taking action is the start of the downward trend that leads to "surprises". Doesn't mean you can't have a beard underway, but when the rules say you must shave, enforce the rules.

2/27/2012 9:14 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rules also say no painting underway, nor within 24 (or 48, I forget which) hours of underway, but that was, and probably still is, routinely violated. If you're going to exercise judgement in which rules you enforce, you'd damn well better use some common sense with your crew.

2/27/2012 2:33 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Next blog please!

Before the old guy starts to talk about some PEU or how is smarter than the next.
We have wore this subject out to the point we forgot what the original topic was. Let the new CO and the Command get over this and do their job! Jeez!

2/27/2012 6:30 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

@ SJV. The same should be said for Squadron staff who are supposed to be providing guidance, help, and leadership to the boats under their cognizance, but rarely are ANY Squadron staff held accountable when one of their boats with known LONGSTANDING and recurrent issues effs up in a big way. Instead they spend half the time finger-pointing and the other half patting themselves on their backs about how good a job they did pointing the finger and writing up reports about all the discrepancies they found (but didn't help fix). *** Accountability should be UP & DOWN the CoC, not stop just within the lifelines.***

What are the rules for Squadron? The staff always say 'we are here to help' and yet almost everyone on the waterfront dreads their appearance because of the ineviteable eye-poke that's sure to follow. At what point does a Squadron guy get relieved for not assisting the boat? Oh, wait - they almost never are, and they certainly don't get DFC'd the way a unit leader would be. But if you had a list of the Sailors on the non-continuation board you'd be surprised to see what percentage were actually on Squadron staffs...

2/27/2012 6:33 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wait, no beards or underway shoes on all the boats in 20 or just when the useless bastards from squadron are on board?

We always had to shave when riders were on board but the only time I ever wore boots was during handling operations in the torpedo room.

Thank God none of the boats have any real problems so they can focus on bull shit like underway shoes and beards!

2/27/2012 8:08 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here's a new topic back in the news. How's that Hype and Change workin'?

2/27/2012 8:20 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What are the rules for Squadron? The staff always say 'we are here to help' and yet almost everyone on the waterfront dreads their appearance because of the ineviteable eye-poke that's sure to follow.

The only commands that dread when we come down are the commands that operate in the grey area. I get the feeling most of the "old regime" would have been content to operate without any Quality Assurance or Assessment. Mostly because they did not follow the rules. I never feared Squadron coming down, because I knew I was following the rules and operating IAW! Take away the outside look and you are back to the days of no inspections, no assessments and no accountability. Look what that got us, almost devastated the submarine force. Do you think we at Squadron like to leave our families and come down and spend several days pouring through incomplete records, feeble self-assessments and pitifal attempts at a command monitoring program? We provide hit lists and "ways ahead" because that is our duty. Try this, operate the command IAW and there will be no hits or lists.
What you should have done is line up when we departed the command and shook our hands for coming down and spending our time looking through your "dirty laundry", giving us a hearty"thank you Shipmate for helping me"! Because of sailors like you and your high standards, my job will always be justified!

2/28/2012 4:36 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Isnt' it time again for another uniform change?

2/28/2012 6:13 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Do you think we at Squadron like to leave our families and come down and spend several days pouring through incomplete records, feeble self-assessments and pitifal attempts at a command monitoring program? We provide hit lists and "ways ahead" because that is our duty. Try this, operate the command IAW and there will be no hits or lists.
What you should have done is line up when we departed the command and shook our hands for coming down and spending our time looking through your "dirty laundry", giving us a hearty"thank you Shipmate for helping me"! Because of sailors like you and your high standards, my job will always be justified!"

That's funny, because this "dirty laundry" is what you left the boat with when you went to squadron in the first place. It didn't "just happen" as soon as you stepped off the brow. Unless of course, you are a permanent squadron commando who hasn't been attached to a boat in years...that's a whole other issue.

It's guys like you with that attitude displayed above that are the problem. Please excuse my command if they don't bend over backwards and rush to "shake your hand" as depart the boat.

2/28/2012 7:10 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh wow! What a bunch of little kids. Left his CAC in his unclas NMCI machine in what I hope is an open secret environment? Well just damn that man to hell! And of course one still needs his password to log on after the screenkiller comes on.

Any of the bearded ones ever look at the justification big navy used to get rid of them in 1984? Seriously, my 7 year old had shoe whines but to hear them from all of whiners here...

2/28/2012 8:11 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Beards went away 1JAN85. If I rem right some blamed the OHIO for some being too scraggly while the brass was showing off their new toy to Congress.

2/28/2012 12:59 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A submarine CPO goes into the local medical center and says that his body hurts wherever he touches it.

“Impossible!” says the doct. “Show me.”

The chief takes his finger, pushes on his forehead and screams, then he pushes his elbow and screams in even more agony. He pushes his knee and screams; likewise he pushes his ankle and screams. Everywhere he touches makes him scream.

The doctor scratches his chin, thinks and says, “You’re not really on a submarine right now, are you?”

“Well, no” he says, “I’m currently stationed at the squadron.”

“I thought so,” the doctor says. “Your finger is broken.”

2/28/2012 2:06 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How in the hell did we switch from talking about a CO getting relieved to hammering Squadron?

TSSBFP
(The stupid shall be finger pointing)

2/28/2012 3:00 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

^^Do you mean finger-pointing along the lines of your last words...?

2/28/2012 3:28 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

For all you Squadron weenies out there who are offended by the audience "Hammering Squadron" - YOU ARE THE PROBLEM! Squadrons used to be charged with "Training, Manning, and Equipping" their assigned units.

Now they want to be a "Certification" squadron. Come in and point out problems and walk away.

They are just a sorry excuse for Monday morning quarterbacking, Ass covering, and trying not to look bad in front of the Sub Flags. It covers the gamut of the entire staff (including the N00s if pressed on especially visible issues by Big Sub Leadership). They are only too happy to tout the reams of "deficiencies" they had previously found, but never made any attempt at the CPO or DH level to fix them. In many cases, these deficiencies were never debriefed to the CO/XO/COB as required to ensure that they actually got fixed if it was important enough to spend the energy on.

For you squadron guys who can look in the mirror and realize you've experienced similar shortcomings during your sea duty - it is your DUTY to help your shipmates.

Your Sh*t does stink too.

Submarining is a team sport. Be part of the TEAM and make a difference!

2/28/2012 5:34 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's guys like you with that attitude displayed above that are the problem. Please excuse my command if they don't bend over backwards and rush to "shake your hand" as depart the boat.

Thats the problem again...
1. You don't even bother to proof read what you have submitted. You need me to correct your grammar.

2. If I don't baby sit you, you will probably be dressed up like a clown before you RTP! Oh wait that was a disparaging remark about clowns. Clowns of the world I apologize.

All kidding aside, I need you to drop your attitude because you will probably be my relief here at squadron. (body pool is shrinking and we will have to scrape the barrel and pick you)I want you to carry on our tradition of helping those who cannot help themselves!

2/28/2012 5:36 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Say what you will but I happen to think that Hernandez was a great CO.

Nuff said!

2/28/2012 6:09 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dammitt! I left my CAAC card at work again!

2/28/2012 6:19 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

And to think I thought SSBNs were the realm of faggots.

2/28/2012 6:19 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

^^Someone has an inferiority complex!

Don't worry, theres spray out there for what ails you!

2/28/2012 6:30 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is getting old! Wheres the new stuff!

You guys need an enema!

2/28/2012 6:38 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"And to think I thought SSBNs were the realm of faggots."

And it's guys like you who go home and furiously beat off to gay porn.

2/28/2012 7:28 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ok Chief...blah blah blah

2/28/2012 8:55 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Richards or Clark... one for sure

2/29/2012 7:03 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think that the CAC card is an example only. This person is saying that he needs to have some personal accountability for his own actions too. You can not stand in front of all these commands and preach integrity, etc...and have no personal accountability yourself. It was just one small example of many. It's the most minor of his transgressions. The shine your shoes and shave I think is more along the lines that there is much that needs to be fixed/addressed on the waterfront and focusing in on that one thing and beating it like a dead dog, does no good. Everyone knows when the teams come onboard, you pull out the nice poopie, shave and put on a good show. Nobody was whining about it, just stating how screwed up the focus is right now.

2/29/2012 7:13 AM

 
Anonymous ex SSN Eng said...

"...just stating how screwed up the focus is right now."

Amen to that.

When...more importantly, HOW...did the bright people and leadership of the submarine force become so irrelevant to our nation's real problems?

Look at this short video of a former Army commander in Iraq who is now one of the two new black congressmen (both are Republican)...and tell me why we don't have dialogues like this here, instead of whiney-assed sniping regarding the admin units (squadrons) and administrative fuckups that cause loss of command and shitbird COBs who think that since they have nothing better to do that demonstrates their leadership they'll go pork a midshipman.

Clean up your act fellas. As a Cold War SSN guy, I've gotta believe that today's leadership on the boats can find a way to be relevant, even if its 'only' in the national dialogue.

# # #

More on Colonel Westook:

This new Congressman was an extremely popular commander in Iraq. He was forced to retire because during an intense combat action a few of his men were captured. At the same time his men had captured one of the guys who were with the Iraqis who captured his men.

Knowing that time was crucial and his interrogators were not getting anywhere with the prisoner COL Westtook matters into his own hands. He burst into the room and demanded thru an interpreter that the prisoner tell him where his men were being taken. The prisoner refused so COL West tookout his pistol and placed it into the prisoner's crotch and fired.

Then the COL told the prisoner that the next shot would not miss. So the prisoner said he would show where the American service members were being taken. The Americans were rescued. Some one filed a report on incorrect handling of prisoners. COL West was forced to retire. COL West was just elected in November 2010 to Congress from Florida.

During the elections he was part of a panel on how to handle or how to relate to Muslims. You will see his answer in the above video.

2/29/2012 8:12 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

WTF. Your little story on Colonel "Westtook" is 99% fiction. How can people be so completely stupid, the just push the "I believe" button when reading ridiculously embellished stories like the one posted above.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,326026,00.html

2/29/2012 8:24 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"He was the officer in charge on Aug. 20 of that year when soldiers under his command in Taji, Iraq, beat an Iraqi policeman they believed was hiding information about imminent attacks. Not getting the information he wanted, West took over the interrogation and, according to court reports, discharged his 9 mm pistol just above the policeman's head. According to West, the Iraqi then spilled the beans about a planned ambush.

The policeman, Yehiya Kadoori Hamoodi, told The New York Times almost a year later that he had blurted out meaningless information to West out of fear and pain. But West has said that after the confession, no further attacks were made against his battalion until the time he was relieved of duty two months later.

West was charged with assault and violating the Uniform Code of Military Justice. The military decided not to court-martial him, which would have meant years in prison and a dishonorable discharge if convicted. Instead, he was given an administrative Article 32 hearing and fined $5,000 for misconduct and assault."

2/29/2012 8:26 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ya know I may just be a dinosaur, but there used to be a day when the CO was responsible for what happened on his command. (not using his/her) should indicate how much of a dinosaur I am.

Why is this an issue, inspectors provide reports it is the command responsibility to institute corrective action. If squadron identifies deficiencies it seems you have rags between your legs and want squadron to fix the problems also. Grow up, good God i think I was right when I told my grandson that this was not the navy I knew and did not recommend he enlist.

2/29/2012 9:00 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It used to be that Squadron came down to check and assess and give their blessings. Now squadron is the fix all, body pool and from what I hear the savior for what ails you.
What happened to the Chief? Where was the Chief during all of this?In my time we sent those boats to sea on the backs of those Chief Petty Officers. No one had to come down and tell us anything, I knew the Chief would take care us. The Chief was the savior, the trainer and the trusted senior enlisted who you could believe in. My first Chief set me straight and instilled in me those traits that used to mean something.I bet you the CO's of today could not even tell you their first Chief's name. We are heading in the wrong direction.

2/29/2012 6:30 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon-I told my grandson that this was not the navy I knew and did not recommend he enlist.

2/29/2012 9:00 AM

Why would you want your grandson to be part of an organization who hazed, persecuted and bullied most of its employees. Sexual Harrassment and fraternization were running rampant and no one gave a damn. We have evolved from the dark ages that you claim to have been the good ole days. For you to say this is not the Navy I knew, lets hope it never returns to that.

2/29/2012 6:49 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've seen around 10 commodores during my time, granted not that many but only seen 2 of those take accountability for telling the boat to do something, then the TRE/ORSE board hits them on it during inspection. Seen more of them lie and say, nope never heard, never seen, or told them not to do that. Bad boat, good squadron. Like everywhere else, its a person to person thing, but let me tell you, if you dont support your boats, i dont recommend you go back out to the fleet as your reputation travels around the deckplates.

2/29/2012 7:56 PM

 
Anonymous 3383 said...

1956 Anon- that strikes me as a good metric- should a good squadron have "bad boats"?

2/29/2012 11:47 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Worked for a commodore at Squadron 10 that was universally despised. During his reign, no boat in the squadron scored excellent or above average on any squadron-led inspection. However, he thought his leadership was exceptional. Sorry, Jim, you were what you ate.

3/01/2012 2:05 PM

 
Anonymous mark/MM1(ss) said...

anon @ 6:49 - well, just to start, twenty years ago, we were treated much more like adults. The culture of "intrusive leadership" is an abomination in my view. You claim that the Navy has evolved past persecution, and bullying? Bullshit. It' just more institutional now than it used to be. That's just a start. The only improvement I can see is the educational benefits. Those of us that served under VEAP truly got screwed. BTW - I am in a position to know what it's like now.

3/01/2012 3:39 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

mark/MM1(ss) said...

I thought about writing some long drawn out rebuttle to what you just said. But after realizing now your still a first class (must have burnt it up in the Navy)I sorta feel sorry for you.

3/01/2012 4:04 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is like listening to my kids in the back seat. Petty and childish.

Next topic.

3/01/2012 4:21 PM

 
Anonymous mark/MM1(ss) said...

umm... I was E6 after four years in; I served six, and have been out and working in DoD the past twenty five years. So, feel free to make an actual rebuttal. BTW, people seemed to be a lot better at reading for context twenty-five years ago, too. You might want to work on that one.

3/01/2012 4:43 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

mark/MM1(ss) said...
umm... I was E6 after four years in

Again your great wisdom and experience overwhelm me. Maybe afer I have resign my commission, I can be lucky enough to work for the government. Maybe, just maybe I will also complain about accrued benefits I have received. Why did you chime in to this blog?

3/01/2012 6:07 PM

 
Anonymous mark/MM1(ss) said...

The fact that you're an officer explains much. It does though, beg the question of how such an illiterate dumbshit could earn a college degree, much less make it through the Nuclear Power program.

3/01/2012 6:31 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

For the love of God, Joel, PLEASE post something new! I am starting to worry about you - almost two weeks - everything okay?

3/01/2012 6:49 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Some douche zero who can't spell, doesn't know the difference between your and you're, is a pole smoking, suck ass brown-noser is making comments about wisdom and experience?

Let me tell you what I would've told you 15 years ago as an E-6, "GO FUCK YOURSELF, sir!" (And there wouldn't have been a damn thing you would've done about it.)

3/01/2012 7:48 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Eleven people were dangling below a helicopter on a rope. There were ten Naval Officers and one Chief. Since the rope was not strong enough to hold all the eleven, they decided that one of them had to let go to save all the others.

They could not decide who should be the volunteer. Finally the Chief said he would let go of the rope since Chiefs are used to doing everything for the Navy. They forsake their family, don't claim all of their expenses and do a lot of overtime without getting anything in return.

When he finished his moving speech all the Naval Officers began to clap…

Moral: Never underestimate the powers of a Chief.

(Corollary: Especially if you're dating a middie that flies to Bangor once in a while.)

3/01/2012 8:21 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mark,
How exactly did VEAPers get screwed? It is true the benefits before and after us were better, but how does that effect us? Thinking that you are getting screwed because someone got a good deal you didn't (even though it does not effect you in the least) has been going on forever, and it not right. This is how Americans come to a sense of entitlements that bankrupts our government and society.
Did you join the military solely for the education benefits? If you did, you joined the wrong service. Army always has had better benefits because their schools suck. Did you at least use VEAP? Or did you let it go and complain you got nothing like I watched so many others do? I used most of mine, and still got to transfer some post 9-11 for my kids to use. I am not a rosy optimist but I am glad and took advantage of the benefits that I did get.
Oh, don't attack the lifers and o-gangers because some loser thinks 6yrs of service isn't enough time or rank to form an opinion.

3/01/2012 10:34 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Let us sum all of this up so we can move on to another topic:
1. If you mis-handle classified material you will be held accountable. No matter what your rank.
2. If you abuse your power and sleep with a midshipmen you disgrace your self and the CPO community for years to come.
3. If you forget your CAC card and tell someone to shine their shoes you get ridiculed.
4. If your on a SQD staff, you get zero respect.
5. Some Anon one day wants to move up in the NY payscale?
6. If you only do 6 years and make it to E-6 some zero will tell you to shut up and color in the corner.

Next topic!

3/02/2012 4:09 AM

 
Anonymous NHSparky said...

Mark--not that you need the backup, but I love JO's whose "real world" experience consists of guys who read the writing on the Navy wall and figured out DH wasn't in their future. Probably the same guys who were told to STFU and go color in the corner when they were EOOW's.

Maybe they can come to work for us when they get out.

3/02/2012 6:48 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree, you guys need a new topic. but it just so happens to be right around the corner!!!!! Integrity is going to be just the start of it. But lets just say 5 of 12 will soon be gone!!!!!! Stand by sub mates!!!

3/02/2012 7:06 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

5 of 12. Hmmm. Originally 24 split tails assigned to boats, 12 east coast, 12 west coast. Hmmm???

3/02/2012 11:04 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The BS river has been diverted towards the rumor mill.

3/02/2012 11:27 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rumor Mill a la Navy Times...

http://www.navytimes.com/news/2012/03/navy-female-submarine-fraud-investigation-030212w/

3/02/2012 12:27 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

While we're waiting for the full story on the latest women-on-subs debacle to emerge, here's a recorded tribute to the CinC's style...when there's nary a teleprompter in sight ("...because there is no POTUS without the TOTUS").

3/02/2012 12:55 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks for bringing your unrelated political bullshit into the mix.

3/02/2012 1:32 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

anon 6:49

you wouldn't have had to worry about it would you? JO and PO like you were weeded out before they hit the fleet normally. Those of us operating the boats didn't have to deal with this type of B.S. I will not deny that we sometimes cut corners and no we did not always follow every jot and tittle in the regs. When someone decided it was time to shoot a hostage to make a point no one complained because normally it was a senior enlisted or someone in command. For the most part we got the job done.

BTW Mark MM1(SS) stayed for twenty made E7 in nine you probably could have done the same sounds like we were in about the same time.

3/02/2012 2:02 PM

 
Anonymous mark/MM1(ss) said...

anon @ 1034 - I really can't argue with you, we pretty much agree. I included the VEAP thing mostly to try to be a little balanced and not present my position as everything was better back in the day. We did know the deal going in, and that's the bottom line. To go back a little in the discussion, I couldn't agree with the guy who would discourage his grandson from going in. My own son has been in for 3+ years now, and has his fish. I thought the experience would be a net positive for him, but I gave him the unvarnished truth about what to expect. I also harbor no resentment toward officers in general. I can't remember a bad one on the two boats I was on, and Joel clearly appears to have been a good one. And yes, I'm also glad Joel has another topic up.

3/02/2012 2:36 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

OOHHH SHITTTTT!!!!

Sounded the diving alarm with hatches open......

Missing the "Straight Board"

and "Lost the Bubble"

Glad to be off the waterfront for this one....

So, who is stupid enough to lie on a travel claim? There are tons of people who see them every day and are only too happy to tag them for a "Quality Assurance Audit".

Being honest actually worked in my favor in by several $k that I didn't claim, but was authorized over a prolonged training pipeline.

3/02/2012 5:53 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"So, who is stupid enough to ..."

Say no more. The correct answer in all cases is: a skimmer.

(Which all of these lady Chops were.)

3/03/2012 7:08 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is being given in response to "Anon @ 2/25/2012 10:36 AM" who appears to be a part of the parent squadron.

"Stand up and use what little intestinal fortitude you have and ask to be heard..."

Strange. This seems to be a derivative of "Forceful Backup"; standing up and informing the chain of command when something isn't right.

OK, let's go there. I had the "intestinal fortitude" to stand up and be heard over significant issues on my boat. Unfortunately, it did not align with the political atmosphere of squadron. Now we all know that pointing out issues in the submarine force is like throwing stones in a glass house. So squadron's response was to destroy the careers of a handful of individuals in a circus side show. "Look at my left hand" while ignoring what the right hand is doing.

So, to "Anon @ 2/25/2012 10:36 AM": Squadron has the answer to everything and the solution to nothing.

Cheers

3/04/2012 10:38 AM

 
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3/04/2012 7:48 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Classified material - what a laugh how the standards are applied. Look at RADM Doug McAneny - he blatantly hand carried sensitive classified material on travel while he was CO of SSN690 - he was not punished, moved on to NR and other promotable jobs and is now a RADM. The submarine force is becoming cunning on hiding what they wish.

3/08/2012 10:26 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

From what I understand from folks there, the Facebook story has it and is justified.

3/14/2012 3:10 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Served under this CO for a patrol. Loved his philosophy and how he treated the crew. Pretty sure Facebook is what brought his command to an early end. IMO it's unfortunate.

4/15/2012 4:03 AM

 
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5/09/2012 9:18 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's really quite hilarious to the perspective of individuals not on the boat. You all have some vivid imaginations. I was on board when this happened, but I enjoy all of your fairy tales much more than the truth.

1/10/2013 9:48 PM

 

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