Keeping the blogosphere posted on the goings on of the world of submarines since late 2004... and mocking and belittling general foolishness wherever it may be found. Idaho's first and foremost submarine blog. (If you don't like something on this blog, please E-mail me; don't call me at home.)

Sunday, August 12, 2012

Wow. Just Wow.

A week ago, USS Pittsburgh (SSN 720) had a change of command, with CDR Michael Ward relieving CDR Michael Savageaux for what I'm sure he hoped would be a successful command tour with a band playing at the end.
Unfortunately, life doesn't work out that way, as he was relieved of duty due to "lack of confidence in Ward's ability to command" just one week after putting on his sheriff's badge. What, you may ask, would cause this quick turnaround in his Commodore's opinion of this young CO? This news article provides some clues:
Navy Cmdr. Michael P. Ward II, who a 23-year-old Chesapeake, Va., woman said had an affair with her, has been relieved of his duties as the commanding officer of the USS Pittsburgh, just one week after he was put in command.
The woman said she met Ward, 43, on a dating website in October 2011. She said he told her he worked in "special ops." She said Ward, who is married with children, told her he was separated. She said he impregnated her and, in an effort to end the relationship, faked his death in an email in July...
...The woman said Ward sent her emails using the name Tony Moore. On July 6, she received an email from his address purporting to be from a man named Bob who worked with Ward.
"He asked me to contact you if this ever happened," the email says. "I am extremely sorry to tell you that he is gone. We tried everything we could to save him. I cannot say more. I am sorry it has to be this way."
The email goes on to say, "He loved you very much," and that Bob had something Ward wanted to give to the woman.
The woman said on July 9, she drove with her family members to Ward's house in Burke, Va., to pay her respects and learned from the new owner that Ward was alive and had moved to Connecticut to take command of a submarine.
Have you ever heard of a CO story to top this one?


Anonymous Anonymous said...

Of course, we have. It is the same story Russian President Putin has no doubt been hearing from his Federal Security Service (FSB) staff:

The U.S. is operating under the false impression that since the Cold War ended, only its cyber-security enemies are bona fide security threats. In short, updated background checks on prospective U.S. sub commanders have been waived for the past _ _ years. (Hope not giving too many details away).

Why should anyone be surprised that one of our premiere military units has been degraded by political moves that relax previous standards? Thank goodness the standards for SSBN COs were judiciously exempted (uh oh) from such foolish moves!

8/12/2012 7:34 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

^^^ Huh???

8/12/2012 7:41 PM

Blogger Vigilis said...

Ward earned his B.S. in electrical engineering from the University of Florida and a master's degree in business administration from the University of Maryland. Most recently, Ward served on the Joint Chiefs of Staff, J-5, at the Pentagon.

In attendance at CDR Ward's recent change of command ceremony were his two sisters, a brother and their families. Also there were many friends and one of Ward's biggest supporters, his 93-year-old grandmother, Josephine Syroczinski.

Think Ward is embarrassed? What about the whole Pentagon? Let's remind ourselves; which Secretary of the Navy was on watch (again).

8/12/2012 8:20 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Does Anybody have a quicker RFC/DFC Story. The closest one I knew of was Tony Hill on the W. Virgina, I think that one lasted four months.

8/12/2012 8:22 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

This must be a fast breaking story. Vigilis didn't even have time to link to his shitty blog.

8/12/2012 8:26 PM

Anonymous CynicalSubSailor said...

For those of us who worked with Ward on the 23 boat, this comes as no real surprise. That guy is/was a "kiss up, shit down" douchebag. Sadly, that boat had more than its' fair share of shady/sleazyness while Ward was the XO there and Dave Honnabach was the CO. Good thing CDR Brian Davies and Ward's relief were able to straighten things up a bit.

8/12/2012 8:30 PM

Anonymous k said...

I don't think it tops this one (because the details aren't as salacious - really faking your own death via email?), but the CO of one of the SSGN's was fired a year or so ago for having an affair.

I also know of a now retired O-6 who was the CO of a surface ship and is now recently divorced because he apparently was living a double life with another wife on the other side of the country (his 'real' wife thought he was just travelling a lot due to his post-retirement job, and the other woman thought he was still in the Navy)

8/12/2012 8:36 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree, Vig has a shitty blog alright, but his facts as those he provided above are usually hard to dig up and most of you sub experts don't know enough to answer half of his submarine questions of the week.

On the other hand, 90% of you cannot answer any of his submarine question before he gives the answers, because he does not allow ANONYMOUS comments!

8/12/2012 8:36 PM

Anonymous Derka Derka said...'s very, very, very wrong for a fast-attack submarine commanding officer to have a mistress...but perfectly okay if he has anal sex with other men?

Not hatin' on the gays...just trying to understand our new, politician-originated "morality."

Maybe we should fix this problem permanently by requiring all submarine commanding officers to be

[And...aside from "SSBN sailor"...what is the politically correct name for homosexuals in the submarine force?]

8/12/2012 8:38 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Life was much easier when a CO could go on WESTPAC, do his mission, get some strange in port and return the ship safely back to homeport.

Today, there is just too much to worry about and the internet is there to catch you.

However, this yahoo takes the cake! Special ops, death report by email, porking a 23yr old...classic! It would be something one of my E-3's would do.

So much for the CO screening process...the system is now officially broke.

It makes you wonder who is out there on patrol tonight with the nuclear weapons?

Ps. Does this mean Dirty Dave is elligible for command?

8/12/2012 8:53 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

^^^^^ Obsessed with gay sex.

8/12/2012 8:55 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dirty Dave?

8/12/2012 8:57 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Dirty Dave?"

This is a reference to David "Dirty Dave" Turley, the COB of the Nebraska who was caught fraternizing with a Midshipman (woman) underway and inport.

Read the story here:

8/12/2012 9:10 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

It really bugs me how these cases just crush Leadership's credibility for our Sailors when idiots like this guy & Dirty Dave go so far out of the box, then lie through their teeth about it until so publicly busted. The CO, XO, & COB should be shining examples of our Navy Core Values. Each incident chips away at the image for all those doing it right.

8/12/2012 9:11 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'd at least like to see what the 23yr old looked like...she must have been wet & tight to jeopardize the career over. Knocking her up was just stupid. ORM fail!

8/12/2012 9:12 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was at this Change of Command & when he spoke of his devotion to his family there wasn't a dry eye in the house. Of course now, in hindsight, it's hard not to see it as speaking through his guilt.

What a douche. Can't even make it through a week in Command.

I am horrified however for his wife and three kids who had to be dragged through this, publicly.

8/12/2012 9:12 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Funniest story I've heard in a while. They should rotate this sh!tbag to Afghanistan to do some bomb patrol work. He wants to be special ops, let him have some.

8/12/2012 9:15 PM

Anonymous Alexei said...

Are you F$&%ing kidding me???

How stupid can a guy be? I mean....reallly?

That tops it all. Hands down. No contest.

8/12/2012 9:34 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

23 NEWCON story was pretty good although not as public.

8/12/2012 9:38 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

About 15 years ago, my WEPS on 750 told us a story about a CO who resigned because his mistress was married to a JO in his own wardroom. Anyone else hear anything about that?

8/12/2012 9:44 PM

Anonymous OldTimer said...

Well, you want the PC guys and liars, this is what you get. If the higher ups would choose the straight shooters over the yes men without spines, you may not have this happening all the time.

My best CO was the one that told people like it was, vice the other ones who repeatedly hid and lied to the fellas regardless of the boat. Best CO didnt screen for Flag b/c he wouldnt pay politics, and came across and a no BS guy vice PC is most important. Best CO has was married same woman 30 years+, boat/family new location at all times....went to church service 2x a week...yup religion is such a bad thing.

PC = tolerate liars, scumbags, and yes men; fix the navy by finding the straight talkers who aren't afraid as 0-3/0-4 to tell the higher ups whats actually wrong with their command, systems, personnel etc.

8/12/2012 9:54 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon @ 9:44:

Kentucky was about that time (97ish). PCO picks up a JO's wife in the base gym while the boat is out. Classy!

8/12/2012 9:55 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Glad this guy got served. All about stepping on people as he moved up the food chain, but liked by the right PC in power crowd so no stopping him.

His former sailors talked garbage about him, so I can't say I'm surprised it happened.

I agree with the above posting that we are focused on the wrong things at the current time. Everyone is focused on being politically correct, being nice, no hiccups; when the Navy should be focused on things like honesty, hard work, and doing your job.

At J-5 he wasnt particularly thought of as anything but a yes-man, so I'm sure his higher up friends will just help him out of this one.

8/12/2012 10:03 PM

Anonymous Ret_QMSS_ANAV said...

Funny to see all the berating comments but it is even funnier to think about all of you who did the deed with a chick and then ran as fast as you could. Here are a couple rules to help those who are challenged in the ways of covert ops:
1. Never give them your real last name.
2. You are a skimmer.
3. Always say you are to drunk to drive and take a cab without identifying your real car. Point to the red corvette first.
4. Never, ever leave your wallet some place she can get to. Put it under the matress or under the couch cusion but do not leave it in your pocket.
5. For goodness sake, get a secret email adress.
If you have some other good ones, share um.

8/12/2012 10:03 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

..I give them the XO's name, give them his wife's phone number....learn to treat your people better..with a good XO, I'll just give them the same info but for the COB...and watch the hilarity ensure.

I have a wallet full of beer labels I keep in my back pocket, keep the real thing in the front with ID.

Obedience and respect are too often confused.

8/12/2012 10:24 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

The epitome of this blog's title


8/12/2012 10:33 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

[And...aside from "SSBN sailor"...what is the politically correct name for homosexuals in the submarine force?]

Apparently it's Shipmate

8/13/2012 2:14 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I kinda feel bad for CDR Savageaux. He took command of Pittsburgh as a result of the Hartford collision, and now he's back as a result of yet another unplanned relief. The boat, she just won't let you escape.

8/13/2012 2:51 AM

Blogger dark cloud said...

Vig, exactly what does this CO's behavior have to do with SecNav? And the comments on gays in the military? What does that have to do with anything?

Everyone knows the rules. There is no way a piece of tail was worth it, but it seems lots of guys figure "Hey, I won't get caught" instead of not doing it.


8/13/2012 3:39 AM

Blogger John Byron said...

Here's a comprehensive look at the CO Follies of late. Nice piece of work...

8/13/2012 4:33 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Wow, Just Wow!!"

How about the Prospective Commodore of SUBRON THREE who was arrested days before his Change of Command for criminal misconduct!

That one has been swept under the rug pretty well. Ask around and you'll laugh your ass off when you hear the details.

8/13/2012 4:34 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Three Senior Chiefs in the Duty Van beat up and E-6. One of them was the COB, the others were the 3MC and the NODEA. Only the COB was held accountable. Mighty MSP

8/13/2012 4:43 AM

Anonymous cupojoe said...

I would have been suspicious as soon as I saw that mustache!

8/13/2012 5:38 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ok...someone with details on SUBRON THREE Pre-Commodore?

8/13/2012 6:13 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mid-90s. CO of 637 in Pearl relieved 6 days into command for a real ugly DUI. Not near as amazing as this story, but shorter command tour!

8/13/2012 6:14 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

PCO on KENTUCKY was boning on-crew chop's wife while ship on patrol. When ship returned, wife announced to Chop that she was marrying PCO. Of course story got to CO and COMMODORE and PCO never made it to ship. Any surprise that his drop-dead gorgeous and extremely nice wife divorced him?

8/13/2012 6:16 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think SUBRON 3 P-Commodore was the one who was caught taking pictures with his cell up the skirts of women in the NEX. Caught with the goods on his cell phone. Swept under the rug completely. He was an up and comer in the submarine force. Former CO of the 755. Almost as good as this one, but Ward takes the topper award here.

8/13/2012 6:32 AM

Anonymous Derka Derka said...

The CO, XO, & COB should be shining examples of our Navy Core Values.

Laughing my ass off at this one.

Just what the fuck exactly is that???

8/13/2012 6:38 AM

Anonymous Derka Derka said...

P.S. Having read the article at the Duck's link, here's a statement that jumps out at you:

"The excessive (and increasing) number of COs fired for personal misconduct is symptomatic of cultural issues within the Navy and of a confusing ethical context in society, combined with a failure to set effectively and uphold an ethical standard within the service."

Note for so-called post 688 command CO, "Dark Cloud," above: are you so moronic as to not understand the fundamental problem...? If it helps, it is re-stated in different words three times in the above quote (emphasis added for clarity).

Looking at your profile, you might want to watch a bit less "Princess Bride" and pick up something to read that is just a bit better for your brain.

8/13/2012 7:04 AM

Blogger Curt said...

Duck's Link:

The Navy's Moral Compass -

8/13/2012 7:29 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

PCU Jimmy Carter's CO's affair & coverup was a close second, but definately a second to this one. What a liar, special forces, fake name, faking death and then appearing in the papers as you take on command! Incredible arrogance and stupidity. 7 days is the shortest command I've every heard of.

8/13/2012 8:01 AM

Anonymous Green Eyed Jinn said...

Reading this story, and the one for "Dirty Dave," I'm still sadly laughing.
As you sow, so shall you reap.

This is a NAVY problem. If the situation is substantiated, hold them accountable ASAP, make the basic reasons known, and tell the JAGs to shut up.

Usta-fish in Pearl, late 80s, we had a skipper who would hunt and diddle anything that would walk by...everybody knew it, nobody in authority did squat because he was a "hot runner." Never mind the crew was left feeling slimy. Same waterfront boat had another CO who was playing a JOs wife...all covered up so the CO could go be a PCO instructor and then Commodore, and the JO got have a plumb pick of next assignment...and the crew was left feeling ill.
If you cover it up, it just gets worse and worse. I say name 'em, shame 'em, and let everybody know why.
How many of us have known something like this and said nothing? I can't fault the junior folks too much -- their seniors in the Goat Locker and Wardroom have let them down.

8/13/2012 8:16 AM

Anonymous Green Eyed Jinn said...

Oh, and I remember the first CO I mentioned became a Commodore, too. And was selected for Flag...before his pattern got busted on the Joint Staff.

Maybe it's a Commodore problem???

8/13/2012 8:18 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

The real way to eliminate these incidents is forced separation with no retirement or reduction to next inferior pay grade if already at 20+ years. We can't keep handing out the golden parachute and expect these clowns to change their ways.

I understand that mishaps at sea happen and will continue to. Those are separate issues. These moral lapses embarrass the Navy and the sub force and undermine the authority of the 98% of the chiefs and officers that serve.

We keep talking about changing the culture to allow for more discretion for COs to run their commands. If you can't trust a guy to not pretend he is a spec ops soldier/sailor, bang a girl 20 years his junior then cover it up by faking his death or (insert previous example here), how do you trust him with ANYTHING else.

Sad day for anyone in command or aspiring to be.

8/13/2012 9:36 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The real way to eliminate these incidents is forced separation with no retirement or reduction to next inferior pay grade if already at 20+ years. We can't keep handing out the golden parachute and expect these clowns to change their ways."

^^This, times a thousand^^

There is currently ZERO actual punishment for these bozos. Retire as an O-5 with 20 years, hardly a deterrent. Until the Navy gets harsh with these guys, it WILL continue to happen.

8/13/2012 9:45 AM

Anonymous DanielFBoone said...

If a guys so careless that a 23 year old banker can follow his crumbs and take him down, he’s too careless or oblivious to command a submarine where the bad guys are professionals at tracking and hurting.

8/13/2012 9:49 AM

Anonymous Derka Derka said...

THE cure for THE problem is not more punishment. It's not as if that 'fix' has worked oh-so-well before.

The cure is "the problem"...which is to say understanding the problem rather than swatting at the symptom.

This isn't any more difficult than having a healthy perception and being completely true and honest, and setting standards that have more foundation to them than the political made-up-philosophy-and-ethics of the day, all emanating from a place that has none of the above.

Just sayin'.

8/13/2012 9:52 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

does anyone understand Derka Derka?

leave that touchy feely stuff somewhere else.

Drop the hammer on these guys and ruin their chances of a lush post navy job too.

8/13/2012 10:13 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Green Eyed Jinn--you talkin' Buffalo?

8/13/2012 10:17 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ward was an absolute POS while XO on the projects boat, he did nothing to shield the crew from the absolute walking abortion that was Dave Honnobach. I'm glad to see him fall, very publicly, flat on his face. Hopefully this frees up a command slot for someone who deserves it.

8/13/2012 11:51 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wasn't there a CO (22 maybe) that was relieved for banging the ombudsman? Like 2007ish timeframe. I think it was a longer command tour, but definitely stupid.

8/13/2012 12:00 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

IF the Navy understood this problem, it wouldn't exist. They choose not to.

And IF the Navy keeps "dropping the hammer"...or engages in similar we-don't-know-what-the-fuck-we're-doing forms of speech, see where that gets you.

And my best guess is that's exactly what you're going to see. "There are none so blind."

8/13/2012 12:29 PM

Anonymous Derka Derka said...

"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."

-- Einstein

8/13/2012 12:32 PM

Anonymous Derka Derka said...

"The Navy cannot provide leadership it does not either possess nor seek."

-- Derka Derka

8/13/2012 12:35 PM

Blogger Vigilis said...

"Vig, ...exactly what does this CO's behavior have to do with SecNav? And the comments on gays in the military? What does that have to do with anything?" - Dark Cloud

Leadership starts at the top where Mabus has been! Describing the culture difference in his Navy with what it had been like 4 decades earlier when he served, he told America (Jon Stewart on "The Daily Show" - Fall 2009) "...we never left port without leaving a couple of guys behind in jail." he unwittingly insulted everyone who had served with him, and he had only served a couple of years.

Having made not one comment on 'gays in the military, I cannot answer that question myself. I have, however, often been on record in opposition to female submarine crew because human nature and biological differences are beyond the Navy's ability to regulate with even 95% of the time, no matter how diligently lawyers may think otherwise.

8/13/2012 1:52 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"There is currently ZERO actual punishment for these bozos. Retire as an O-5 with 20 years, hardly a deterrent. Until the Navy gets harsh with these guys, it WILL continue to happen."

So you are saying that everyone, of all ranks, in all services, should be kicked out of the service with no benefits for adultery? Remember, the UCMJ applies to everyone.

I bet Ward is feeling pretty punished right now, is at his terminal rank, and will loose all nuclear AQDs ($40k "fine") per year for the remaining years he stays in.

I agree that he has no business Commanding anything, much less an Attack Submarine. He'll have a hard time commanding his house for long!

8/13/2012 2:52 PM

Blogger Vigilis said...

Perhaps only one CO story definitely tops this one. Every U.S. sailor should know of it:

Commander Alexander Slidell Mackenzie in the "Somers Affair"

In 1842, Commander Mackenzie captaoin of the brig Somers hanged three suspects without a trial. One of those executed, Acting Midshipman Philip Spencer, aged 17, was the son of Secretary of War John C. Spencer.

A court of inquiry was convened when the Somers returned to New York. After a month of testimony the court of inquiry exonerated the commander. At his own request, CDR Mackenzie was later charged and tried by court martial. The court martial acquitted him on a split vote.

More at Naval Historical Center

8/13/2012 2:57 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

No one fired from the 22 then. There was a canning a couple years later for misuse of classified info, though.

8/13/2012 4:08 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Three Senior Chiefs in the Duty Van beat up and E-6. One of them was the COB, the others were the 3MC and the NODEA. Only the COB was held accountable. Mighty MSP"

Not surprised. Leadership problems are endemic, and stem mostly from a zero defect mentality attitude. There is only one way to score zero defects on inspections- lie. If lying is a way to succeed, you get liars promoted, with all the other deviant behaviors that go along wwith lying.

When I reported aboard MSP, and took over my division, I found PMS records back to commissioning, a few more years then needed to be kept. And found that every year, faithfully, PM's A-1, A-2, A-3, A-4, and A-5 on the EMBT blow valves were accomplished, on consectutive weeks. A-1 was for EMBT blow valve make Alpha , A-2 for for maker Bravo, A-3 and so on to A-5. Five different manufacturers, 2 EMBT blow valves, all all PM's faithfully recorded as accomplished. For years. Anyone see a problem with that? Crossed off 4 of them, and took the 3-M book to the engineer for his initials. As he reviewed it, he says, "But I did a PMS check on that 3 weeks ago and they showed me how they did it." Not much I could say to that except, "Uh-huh."

Didn't make me popular.

PMS accomplishment rate went way down while I- for a very short time- ran the division. I wouldn't sign off accomplishment for PM's that weren't actually done.

Four subs in my career, and on three I supervised PMS. And on all 3 found records of falsified PMS. Without looking very hard. On the first sub doing so, my Chief, DivO, and Eng gave me a BZ for making corrections. On the next two, as a Chief, I was nothing but a god damn troublemaker for doing the same.

Unless things have drastically cchanged, and from comments here, they haven't, I could go on board any submarine in the fleet, and within an hour or two of perusing PMS records, find examples of falsified PMS. Let's start with a simple one.

Assuming the PM still exists, the required quarterly replacement of air filter elements in the high pressure air system. At what was then $400 a pop. For more then a dozen on an average EGL. Never met an engineer who would approve the purchase. And the PM states- REPLACE THE ELEMENT- not pull it out and clean it. And gives an NSN for the element. If you're still AD on a sub, pull the card, take the NSN to the SK's, and find out how manny were purchased in the last year. The answer on most submarines will be approximately zero.

If I'm using outdated terminolgy, I've been retired for a while now.

8/13/2012 4:31 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Looks like NPC's ability to screen COs (or anyone else for that matter) hasn't improved.

8/13/2012 5:20 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Looks like NPC's ability to screen COs (or anyone else for that matter) hasn't improved".

And most commodores from the past 5 years continue to reward clueless "Yes Men" who suck up to them and their staffs. It's how Dept Heads get screened for XO, and how Ward got his blessing to screen for CO. (And how most commodores got their current position).

Vern Parks as Devron12? Enuf said...

8/13/2012 5:33 PM

Anonymous jay the nuk said...

Sounds like he took a page out of Waddle's playbook and "Failed Well" too?

8/13/2012 6:05 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jay the Nuke. You are a fucking idiot. Waddle wasn't that stupid and you are an asshole. This guy was a total friggin self serving ass.

8/13/2012 6:15 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree Jay the nuke is a moron. This guy takes the cake. Thinking with his little head and nothing else. How the "F" did this dirt bag ever get to command? He must have sucked a lot of tube steak in his career. Another jack ass bites the dust.

8/13/2012 6:18 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ward is a creepy old man. What the hell was he doing banging a 23 year old? I hope she was a good piece of ass. Guess it isn't any worse than some of the dumb fuk flag officers that have been known to bang their female drivers. When I was in Naples the Group Eight flag was banging this female seaman and he got the boot.

And yeah I agree Jay the Nuke you are a worthless, lame piece of shit.

Go fuk yourself for such stupid comments.

8/13/2012 6:22 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Holy crap this thread is getting out of control.

I had the chance to observe CDR Ward closely when he was XO. My job on the squadron staff afforded me access to some interesting conversations with the XO, CO and Commodore. Gotta hand it to Ward he was a smooth talker and sucked a lot of tube steak. One time the skipper called him on the carpet for how he interacted with a female contractor that was working onboard for a shipalt. I knew then Ward was on the hunt for poontang. On a couple of visits to the boat I saw the way he treated his wife when she would call the boat or how he would talk to her from his stateroom. He was a total jerk.

When I was a nub yeoman I served with Waddle when he was XO on the San Francisco in Pearl in 1993. He was a strait shooter and no B.S. kind of guy. It was because of his work ethic and mentoring that I was able to go back to college, get my degree and commission. I consider myself lucky to have been able to continue to serve in the submarine force.

Years later I had a shore tour on the CINCPACFLT staff when Waddle was in command of Greeneville in 2000 and had the chance to visit the boat. He took care of his crew, the crew respected him. I was on board the Greeneville the day NR's Admiral Bowman visited and heard the admiral say some pretty amazing stuff to the skipper and his crew.

After the Greeneville accident Admiral Fargo was in a shitty position with the direction he was getting from D.C. to put the screws to Waddle and get the investigation closed and put away. Last comment I will make is all the B.S. on this tread about Waddle.

I am ashamed that some of you are submariners.

I doubt you would have been half the man Waddle was.

8/13/2012 6:48 PM

Anonymous jay the nuk said...

Love it you guys post anon. I had a heavy dose of sarcasm in my post. Guess you didn't detect that?

/SARCASM LAMP IS OFF (so you know)

I'm not defending Ward at all. I think he is a triple douche bag for his actions. I personally don't know Waddle but the title of his book, and the comments posted on this blog suggest he could go fuck himself and his book. Or, do you guys have short memories?

So, keep up hammering me, I post under my name and IF YOU GOT BALLS AND WANT TO START CHANGING THINGS, MAN UP AND POST UNDER YOUR NAME. Or, is it you don't (post under your name) cuz you want your 20 yrs and retirement? IOW, you shut up and go along to get 20 and out.

I didn't retire, I'm now a Gov't Civvie and watching this shit go down is very sad. But I have to tell you, if this is the way things are, I made the right decision back in 94.

Oh, and one last thing, I didn't cause any incidents from 1994 on (I didn't cause any while I was in either). Its all on you guys! Suggest you go clean your own house before you come hammer me.

8/13/2012 6:49 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

To annonymous who posted this "Assuming the PM still exists, the required quarterly replacement of air filter elements in the high pressure air system. At what was then $400 a pop. For more then a dozen on an average EGL. Never met an engineer who would approve the purchase. And the PM states- REPLACE THE ELEMENT- not pull it out and clean it. And gives an NSN for the element. If you're still AD on a sub, pull the card, take the NSN to the SK's, and find out how manny were purchased in the last year. The answer on most submarines will be approximately zero.'

You sound like a douche bag, who forgot what it was like to actually do the work, when you made Chief, you sound like an E-7 or you are a Squadron fag. You tell me.

8/13/2012 7:01 PM

Anonymous Veemann said...

I'm not sure if it was the arrogance or stupidity of Ward to think he could simply shut the door on this woman he (allegedly) knocked up. "I'm sorry, he loved you, but....he died..." What did he expect her to do? Update her Facebook status?

Something in the Navy is seriously broken. Its a good thing that the CNOs "tough new rules" for screening COs doesn't go into effect until June 2013.

Not a CO firing, but when I was on Eustaboat back in the early 90's the chop was banging an aerobics instructor on the base. Booked a Q room every Thursday and told the wife that was his "duty day." She found out, divorced him, and the aerobics instructor found out he was married and also dumped him.

8/13/2012 7:02 PM

Anonymous MentalJim said...

Mike Ward. Wow, just wow.

He did manage to launch a TOTEM as Weps despite multiple people telling him what was about to happen, but then he managed to deflect all the blame from himself.

After watching him get selected for XO, I knew I wanted nothing to do with it. I'm glad I retired instead of sticking around to be in the middle of stuff like this and have to watch idiots like this get promoted based on their own ability to BS.

8/13/2012 7:03 PM

Blogger Mike Mulligan said...

We are damn lucky he never CO'd a nuclear submarine in a shipyard?

8/13/2012 7:11 PM

Anonymous 4-Stop said...

And the stain of the “Shitsburg” continues. That boat is cursed! Floating TOTEMS, cokehead nukes, etc…… we used to watch them go up the river to pier Norwich even though all the other piers were open. Time Distance and Shielding from SDQ.

8/13/2012 7:48 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am really tired of reading about COs having these "issues". Everytime I hear about them, I want to melt down my dolphins and use them as a doorstop or paperweight. I often thought that I didn't make CO because I just didn't have what it took, and I was ok with that - particularly when you look at what some of these guys put up with. But now I know that I didn't make CO because I didn't have an affair, hide the fact that I lost crypto, cover up a cheating scandle, or anything like that. Looks like the CNO's recent initiative to "screen COs" will have to look for hidden identities and covert operatives that are really spec ops. If this is true (I emphasis that), CDR Ward you are truly an idiot. Yes moronic and depraved. I feel sorry for your wife, your mother, and everyone that has been deceived by you. If it is not true, shame on the young women that put you through this. Either way, someone is going to hell on a heatseaker.

8/13/2012 7:48 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

This was pretty stupid, but Ward didn't kill anyone like Waddle did.

8/13/2012 8:36 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

This might explain things more clearly
"She chose to have sex with Ward, even though she did not know much about him, and eventually got pregnant.

However, on July 6, the woman received an email, from a supposed 'friend' of Ward's named 'Bob,' which read: "He asked me to contact you if this ever happened. I am extremely sorry to tell you that he is gone. We tried everything we could to save him. I cannot say more. I am sorry it has to be this way... He loved you very much."

On July 9, the woman drove to Ward's house in Burke, Virginia, but the home's new owner said Ward was alive and had moved to Gales Ferry, Connecticut.

The woman said that she became ill, was hospitalized and lost the baby"

Not sure if the Navy has lost it's moral compass or that the information age has made it much harder to hide things.

8/13/2012 8:45 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

This pretty much sums up everything I know about submariners. They are all the lowest slime scum from the underside of the toilet bowl, and I am proud to be one. His actions epitomize classic submarine warfare.

- Identify target(s)
- Approach by stealth, hiding oneself at all costs
- Launch all fish in a wide spread, maximizing probability of a hit
- Egress the area of attack maintaining stealth and if detected, by means of false casualty (aka decoy)
- Survive to reload and attack again

8/13/2012 9:05 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"You sound like a douche bag, who forgot what it was like to actually do the work, when you made Chief, you sound like an E-7 or you are a Squadron fag. You tell me."

You, OTOH, sound like somone who regularly gundecked the PM's, and have resorted to name calling. Must be a liberal, that's what they do. You have not, however, refuted what I said.

If the PM says "change the filter", and it was cleaned, not changed, and subsequently signed off as completed, the PM was gundecked. Period, end of discussion. On the boats I was on, someones signature ended up on them saying they were complete- and it wasn't mine.

Are you saying you are alright with gundecking- as long as it's not seerious? And who decides serious?

8/13/2012 9:51 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I went through all initial training (NPS, SOBC and SOAC) with Mike Ward. There was another officer in our NPS/SOBC group named Tony Moore. Coincidence? I have been out of the Navy a few years and lost track of Mike. Honestly, I was surprised to hear that Mike was a CO based on incidents that happened when he was a JO and DH.

8/13/2012 10:55 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

To the Waddler above:

I served with an officer that was on the Greeneville with Waddle. In fact, he was in control when they hit the Ehime Maru.

He did not have good things to say about his ability to foster an environment that alllowed for questioning the CO's judgement.

That is all.

8/13/2012 11:14 PM

Blogger dark cloud said...

Vigilis, fair enough, but the SecNav is so far removed from forces afloat that I cannot see how anything he says or does impacts where an O5 submariner chooses to unzip his fly.

As for Waddle, he killed nine people. Personally.

Derka Derka, when you've walked in my shoes let me know. Til then, get qualified.

8/14/2012 1:27 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am professionally embarrassed here in Groton, we have CO's fabricating stories to cover their infidelity, we have CMC's skinny dipping in rock lake(which is totally covered up) and they want me to be a COB. No way I'm letting my feet do my talking and I am out of this canoe club. Groton is the place to be if your f*&^ed up!

8/14/2012 2:42 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Latest Summary of the Subforce
Groton - Alcohol/Domestic problems
Norfolk - Larceny/Violent Crimes
King's Bay - Spousal Abuse
Bangor - Depression
San Diego/Pearl - Substance Abuse

...argue or not, look at where the majority of these charges are filled. history continues to repeat itself.

8/14/2012 5:37 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

As our enemies read this they must think we are a bunch of clowns.

On the flip side, knowing these same clowns have their "finger on the button" of our nuclear weapons at sea, probably makes our enimies just a little nervous.

8/14/2012 6:09 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is why I'm happily divorced. At least I'm honest about it.

Although the PC boys dont like promoting divorcees because it doesnt promote the best family environment, instead you get situations like these...oh so much better.

You just got served!

8/14/2012 6:11 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Day has a few new details about interactions between Ward and the 23 year old after the first email from "Bob". The URL to the article is listed above. The article also lists all of his previous submarine commands. Interesting that he was on HAMPTON with RDML(sel) Bob Burke when HAMPTON launched the TOTEM. Ward seems to draw names of his fictitious characters from his past (see the previous post about "Tony Moore").

It also seems that Ward learned of his philandering ways from RDML(sel) Bob Burke except that he didn't learn how not to get caught. Is it any wonder when we promote officers of such low character like Burke to admiral that we continue to have problems with officers they trained, mentored, and ultimately detailed to Command???? (Burke was Pers-42 when Ward was detailed to PITTSBURGH). The Navy will continue to reap what it sows....glad I'm chose to retire!

8/14/2012 7:14 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

With this kind of Crap happening Greenert should seek relief from CNO and step back to clean up the sub force as anyone in line for leadership of same now comes from soured crop of selectees "Silent Service" has been silent for TOO LONG,,,,CLEAN UP YOUR ACT OR GET THE FUCK OUT !

8/14/2012 7:54 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Undetected Russian Akula in the Gulf... OOPS!

8/14/2012 9:33 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rationale-wie, the article fails to mention one possible asymmetric-warfare target: major U.S. oil platforms in the Gulf.

Remember how much trouble we had cleaning up one blowout? Imagine 20-40 with that kind of problem.

The two-fer of an economic hit and environmental disaster is likely of some appeal to the 'other' bad boys (we clearly have our 'own').

8/14/2012 10:19 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Definitely interesting to read through these posts. This assclown epitomizes the title "The Stupid Shall be Punished."

As for the Navy being jacked up, I am not 100% in agreement. Roger, "they" promoted this douchebag, but did they really think he was like this when they did? I personally believe that you should know right from wrong by this point, and you should be held accountable. Inevitably, he'll make all submariners look like assclowns and for that he brings the submarine force down, but who has ever read, heard, been taught, that this is the way to act. Who is jacked up? Not the submarine force, not the Navy, not the military - this *&#$ing IDIOT is.

8/14/2012 11:30 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm thinking that upon selection for command the PCO gets his d_ck tattoo'd with "Property of Mrs. ____". In day glo ink. Sorry to see the additional workload for the crew, staff, and pity the family. And as a former CO used to say "thinking with your balls will get you into trouble every time - in the cockpit, in a fight, in a dark bar in Singapore"

8/14/2012 11:41 AM

Blogger Mark Balzer said...

on radioing PMs nothing new or surprising about that no one really checked on whether they were don correctly just if it was checked off. Remember a component breaking on the ustafish in Holy Lock, when the MM1 who had signed off on the last three PMs was questioned about it he could not even take the thing apart to show how he had done the PM. Nothing happend, remember being ordered by a MMCM to sign off on PMs I had not done because we had to get to sea. refused to do it and dared him to take me to mast, he didn't but I did not get above a 3.5 on my evals for the rest of my time on board luckily for me that was the time of if you can sign your name you got promoted on the rating exams for nucs.

8/14/2012 12:11 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I got out in 1979. This shit has been going on since before then. I don't regret my service, but I'm glad I got out when I did. If I had it to do over again, I would not go subs. The submarine force was ate-up with assholes back then and it obviously hasn't changed a bit in 33 years.

8/14/2012 12:34 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I remember TMCM Burke standing at Quarters(muster) on the 02 level AS 15 in Key West "Remember men its Winter up North and the queers are coming South, and as far as the Navy is concerned IT DOESN'T MATTER WHICH END OF THE DICK YOUR ON" guess things have changed in the sub force!

8/14/2012 12:51 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

If I had it to do over again, I would not go subs.

Ditto. Though I was drafted due to high physics grades to go interview with Rickover, but did not give a blue shit about engineering. "Over my dead body" would I ever do that again.

8/14/2012 1:10 PM

Blogger Unknown said...

I cant believe this shit. It is absolutely driving me crazy.

I got out in 2001 after 22 years. It was a good ride but I hated all of the bullshit and ass kissing that I saw. I know the sub force is no different in this respect but PLEASE who is watching the farm.

I have been on WESTPAC and must have been one of the few that didn't go to town for a "six pack" yeah you know what I mean, a brown one to do your laundry, another to clean my room, another to cook my meals, and the others to take care of my business.

I was married and still am to the same woman that has stood by me for more than 30 years.

I steamed with my buddies on liberty. Took care of those too drunk and stupid to find their way back to the boat. I'm not a bible thumper but I am a man of faith.

I hate all of you assholes that fail to take ownership of your posts.

I have know many officers that failed. Several that had their significant oops moments and managed to move on. San Juan and Alabama collision/underhull with Joe Maloy case in point.

It seems to be who you know.

John Richardson is a smart guy. He has played it safe his whole career. Heading to NR I doubt he will be able to influence change in the sub force. The only leader that ever impressed me was Joe Leidig and Frank Caldwell. They are all friends and solid me.

Yeah Im gonna add Waddle to the group too. Go ahead and give me shit for that but I knew and know the man well. Try walking in his shoes. I respect him and I dont give a shit what JO you know he took care of his crew and had a big ah shit that killed nine Japs.

Secrest could have spoken up. His navigator Sloan was a wet towel and worthless. The only good dept head on board was his WEPS and Meador the Engineer whose father in law ironically was Brandhuber (another pompus asshole in my opinion).

I have seen good guys come and go. Not screen for XO CO or COB. The whole screening process disgusts me.

I will take ownership of this tread. If you have a beef with me man up and put you name on it.

I did my time on the boats and didnt kill anyone, sink any tugs, collide with a tanker, run aground, discharge coolant overboard, hurt anyone on the boat, fuck over anyother commands in our squadron or fleet.

Today's subforce seems to be run by a bunch of lame assholes that are afraid to take risks and take a stand.

If we go to war Im confident we will be as weak as the skippers were after the Japs attacked us in 41.

Last comment: for you Waddle haters go fuck yourselves.

8/14/2012 1:36 PM

Blogger Unknown said...

As a follow up. I was not a yeoman and dont use spell check. Maybe I should have taken a deep breath before posting....but I am mad as hell at all the stupid shit postings on this site.

Shouldn't even have wasted my time posting my thoughts as I am sure like the current leadership running our boats, the bullshit is going to continue.

Too bad we don't have more men like RADM Eugene B. Fluckey and those that served during his time.

8/14/2012 1:43 PM

Blogger Vigilis said...

The more intelligent readers among you might be interested in a Kings Bay update. Those of you who can't be bothered with the accurate but inobvious facts I dig up, should skip it and remain dull.

Had we thought those parachutists who dived on Kings Bay last Sunday were just "off course"? Here's an equally contrived plot in which the Navy has been an unwitting bystander: More facts and motive.

8/14/2012 2:23 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey, let's sit down Ron.

Just relax, that's it, breathe.

It will be ok...

It will be ok...

8/14/2012 2:23 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

So here's a question- how was the Navy supposed to catch this clown before the mistress spoke up? Are we going to generate a new form that has to be filled out prior to command? We could call it the career survivability form with a bunch of yes or now questions such as "Are you screwing someone other than your wife?" I mean really, it isn't like Ward would have fessed up had he been asked. Believe me there is already a healthy dose of "don't be this guy" case studies in SCC, CLS, etc.

So how would the Navy have known? Are you saying that we should start spying on people's personal e-mails? Good luck with that one. And several people have said that Ward was an asshole. Got it. Guess what- if we start weeding out all the assholes, including the assholes that aren't adulterous ones, we aren't going to have enough guys to go to sea.

So for you guys that keep saying "the Navy should have caught this and weeded him out!", again- how? And I'm not just mudslinging against you loonies who keep forgetting to wear your tinfoil hats when you post... I'm actually curious if someone has a reasonable opinion on how we would have known this.

8/14/2012 2:28 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

How would the Navy know? Well, they might start by actually conducting the required periodic security clearance investigation updates.

But even if the Navy knew, the real question is would they have done something about it? Often it seems that negative publicity is one of the few things that ends up causing action to be taken. Otherwise it's nudge-nudge, wink-wink, and go on about your business.

Just to pick an example, far too many submariners have been known by their chain of command to cheat on their wives and nothing was done about it, it was covered up, or it was celebrated. It would take an enormous amount of effort over a sustained period of years to change just that part of the submarine culture. And I'm not sure that the Submarine Force leadership has the stuff to make it happen, not to mention the clean personal record needed so as not to appear two-faced about it.

8/14/2012 2:49 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

An updated background check on a sub PCO should be mandatory, at least for non USNA types. Why wasn't Ward's wife at the change of command ceremony the week earlier?

8/14/2012 2:52 PM

Anonymous DamoclesDave said...

saw the CO of my second sub bring down 'dancers' to the wardroom for dinner while we were in Rosey Roads in the early 90's. Best moment from that evening was a primary spill at the sample sink. Right after they call the spill away, hear over the 1MC: "Usta-fish, departing" as he escorts the 'dancers' off the boat for an evening of fun and games. He was a ballbuster at Navsea 08 before we got him as CO.

8/14/2012 3:00 PM

Blogger Unknown said...

I agree. I took a bunch of deep breaths and smoked a Punch robusto and had a glass of scotch. Well two scotches :D

It still doesn't mean that I am not disappointed in how things have changed in the sub force.

Don't these bone heads know that they will eventually get caught?

Come on fellas. Use your heads and take care of your shipmates and families.

8/14/2012 3:01 PM

Anonymous Served SSN CO said...

Prior to relieving as any of the Command Triad (CO, XO, or COB), administer a counter espionage polygraph test. They used to be required to get or maintain access to "Special" programs.

Refusal to submit means that you can't relieve, and loose your sub pay, bonuses, AQDs, etc. That way, if you've F'ed up, save yourself some grief and don't play for the public positions of CO, XO, or COB. It will save the rest of us collective embarassment that tarnishes our Dolphins.

The Counter Espionage Polygraph used to consist of 3 parts and failing any will get you out of the program.

First is how you handle classified material - fail this and there were legal ramifications.

Second is a "Lifestyle" series of questions to determine how susceptible you were to blackmail (gambling, adultery, homosexuality, and many other perverse or illegal things). Failing this part gets you kicked out of the program, but nothing further unless you're read your rights and admit to it.

The third part is a urinalysis immediately prior to starting the polygraph to ensure you're not on Valium (like Walker and Ames did) to pass the polygraph. Fail this and there are the usual legal issues.

Expensive to do? Yes, but if you locate a central site on each coast, insert an I stop into the PCS orders to Command (or XO, or COB)

This will FIX this specific pre-existing character issue, and the fear of a random one during Command may make the "big head" think for the "little head" for a change.

8/14/2012 3:11 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sleaziest CO I ever worked for would have screwed the crack of dawn. As CO, he cheated on his second wife in the PI, hit on the ENG's wife during port call in Hong Kong (ENG was the SDO), etc. Gee, how would the Navy have known?

Well, during his immediately previous tour, he cheated on his first wife with at least one of the enlisted women who worked for him, divorced his first wife, and then married the enlisted woman (she may have gotten out of the Navy before the wedding; her pregnancy may have assisted that process).

Anybody want to guess if the previous chain of command had an inkling that something was amiss there?

8/14/2012 3:24 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Served SSN CO-

Hell no to a poly. We should be scaling back our reliance on that pseudo-scientific relic, not increasing it. You don't even seem to know how they work. There are NEVER legal ramification to simply failing a polygraph. You have to admit to something. They also don't give drug tests prior conducting them - not for the counterintelligence scope ones, anyway. There's no evidence that Ames was drugged, anyway - he only admitted to being advised to get a good night's sleep and be calm and easygoing with the examiners.

The only use of a polygraph is as an interrogation tool against the simple-minded. There's a reason why they're inadmissible in court...

8/14/2012 3:45 PM

Anonymous SERVED SSN CO said...

Just threw it out there to discuss an alternative to "Nothing".

BTW, what I described is exactly what I was subjected to by AF OSI (airforce NCIS) 15 years ago. The allowable answers were "Yes" or "No". Couldn't say "Hell No" or "Are you out of your mind!"

I agree that polygraphs may weed out the simple minded, but unless you've taken one and know that you're a "Great Liar", it may still be a deterrent for douche bags like Ward.

8/14/2012 4:10 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

In my experience, "nothing" is a perfectly serviceable option.

8/14/2012 4:45 PM

Blogger Mike Mulligan said...

Jesus Christ, we need a big fat juicy war to keep these guys busy from this shit? The peace is kicking our ass.

8/14/2012 5:14 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think too many folks are worried about the wrong thing here. You may not catch them all before they reach command, but the real issue here is that there is no real meat to the punishment. If some of these clowns were put to the pier without that retirement parachute, they might think twice before doing the deed. As it stands, I can do whatever the hell I want and "if" I get caught, the worst thing that will happen to me is that I get to go home.

8/14/2012 5:24 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

The great weakness of polygraphs is that they are completely ineffective against sociopaths. The average serial killer could pass one with no sweat. That's also why Aimes had no problem - sociopathic personality.

It only catches those with a physiological reaction to falsehoods or guilt. Its a guilt detector, not a lie detector.

8/14/2012 5:27 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

So, adultery should be a UCMJ offense eligible for the equivalent for a Bad Conduct Discharge? I think NOT!

These douche tips aren't getting slapped on the wrist - look at all the fun we have with them!

They failed very publically. Many more of all ranks fail in obscurity and head home eventually.

I'd like to hear from anyone who has actually been part of the Command Team on this one.

8/14/2012 5:43 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maybe not a BCD, but faking your own death should probably get you out of a security clearance... just saying that you MIGHT be blackmailable...

8/14/2012 5:57 PM

Anonymous MentalJim said...

Akula in the Gulf of Mexico?

8/14/2012 6:21 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"...faking your own death should probably get you out of a security clearance..." -Anon

Expectations for officers and gentlemen preclude making untrue statements with intent to deceive for personal gain. Guess what? This dude was NEVER officer material and will be justly drummed out of the military. However, it will for legal reasons take far too long.


8/14/2012 6:43 PM

Blogger Unknown said...

I miss the Russians. Glad they are trying to make a come back.

8/14/2012 6:58 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

4 stop
Your comment is completely irrelevant. I would dare you to give up your post in front of the current crew of the Pittsburgh in person. The crew has nothing to do with this nor the ships name.
second processor startup

8/14/2012 7:24 PM

Anonymous NHSparky said...

@ 8/13/2012 10:17 AM

you talkin' Buffalo?

Don't know who else it could have been. Oh, the stories leading up to that Westpac...

And yeah, that particular CO could drive but needed to be kept on glass with a sign saying, "Break only in case of war."

8/14/2012 7:39 PM

Anonymous k said...

the poly has actually ended the careers of some senior submariners over the last few years

8/14/2012 8:34 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

After a CO gets a little on the side, it's time to head for the best tasting beer he can find.

You know, "Miller Time".

8/15/2012 6:42 AM

Blogger Friendly Persuasion said...

I keep wondering when the era of military officers being so "moral" actually was.

High profile examples:

Rommel got a woman pregnant when he was a young officer and abandoned her because she wasn't of high enough station to help his career.

Eisenhower and his "driver"

Patton was a well known womanizer including having a long running affair with a step-niece.

Ernest J. King was a notorious womanizer

I have a lot of knowledge of the Groton waterfront 82-91 and there were a lot of well known flings up and down the water front.

Hell i started hearing the submarine slogan "if you aren't cheating you aren't trying" often...though it wasn't meant to apply to adulatory (I don't think it was)

I just think it is easier to get caught thees days...easy to investigate someone using internet resources.

8/15/2012 7:43 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...


Friendly persuasion is correct. Only retirees with their rose-colored glasses firmly in place believe that the numbers are any worse than they used to be.

We just now have blogs, websites, email, facebook, etc. to help catch and publicize this.

8/15/2012 8:47 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am currently between my XO and CO (hopefully) tour. While I have no sympathy for this douchebag and am solidly in the camp that are happy to see his head rolling down the pier, I think that being relieved of command is a solid punishment. While I understand why some would think of the "Golden Parachute" as keeping an incentive in place for this kind of behavior, I personally think that losing command should be deterent enough. It's was we work for all of our career and it is a huge honor - if that's not deterent enough, than that just shows that you were never fit to command in the first place.

8/15/2012 9:10 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Too many of you are content to compare womanizing of yore with today and acclaim, probably correctly, that human nature has not changed.

Unfortunately, your conveniently myopic assessment overlooks what else Ward did besides womanizing. He fabricated deceptions revolving around his Navy career. That takes his offense beyond womanizing. Did Eisenhower, King, etc. do likewise? Certainly not!

Moreover, your faulty logic ignores what else has changed besides ease of personal comms since earlier navy --- woman on subs and bye, bye DADT.

8/15/2012 9:57 AM

Blogger Friendly Persuasion said...

Anon of 0957. You misunderstand, i am not saying Ward should skate. What he lied and he got caught...what I am saying is that are the hand wringing about how we have lost our "moral compass" because it never used to be like this is just not true.

Liars have been a part of the military since there have been armies. Sometimes they get caught. The fact that Ward made it to command is no symptom of a system gone wrong. Liars have and will make to command as long as there are ships to command. it has never been any different.

8/15/2012 11:10 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes because prior to this, all womanizing could be done completely out in the open with no fabricating. Like to the guy's wife.


8/15/2012 11:11 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

As a retiree since 2008 and a 26 year career all I have to say is nothing new is happening! Same stuff, different year.

Ward's escapades are nothing new. I have had senior officers, junior officers, senior enlisted and junior enlisted and civilian employees all do the same thing - adultery! I have seen some do the: "going to go on a special mission" and they don't come back "alive."

When caught, they fabricate more lies to overshadow their lies.

The difference is, the media is getting a better hold on it. What used to be printed in the local paper, now gets posted on the internet and news agencies use it for ratings.

Do these idiots think they will get away with it? Either they do or didn't think that far ahead, just like any criminal.

So the old Navy is operating like the new Navy. We just have an easier way for more people to watch!


8/15/2012 11:31 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh, ANON 0957 - Ike did JUST THAT, how wrong you are. You insinuate this clown was somehow guiltier than Ike and others (previous military adulterers) in some way because he referenced his career in the lies he told??

IKE undoubtedly had an adulterous relationship with his squeeze, driver, and war time companion Kay Summersby. More than that though, she started out a British Citizen at the beginning of the war, but by the end Ike had her (a Brit) comissioned in the U.S. WACs and handed a U.S. Citizenship. He overtly and purposefully had officially sanctioned favor after favor extended to her, wrote awards for her, etc. All so he could have her detailed to him directly - which he did throughout the war. When he went on leave in Europe, she went, when he went on duty she went, shared personal quarters, etc. It's now thought based on letters, etc. that Ike even set out to abandon his wife for her at the end of the war, and indications are that then Army Chief of Staff George Marshall interevened and promised to reveal all and publicly expose Ike if he did.



Human nature is what it is - we're all broken vessels, and this clown of a CO was particularly so.


8/15/2012 1:13 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Brad, a gather you are a woman (by your attitude).

What Ike did, was above board for all to see, not secretive and deceptive. Are you on meds or just not sober?

8/15/2012 4:01 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think it is sad to see a submariner pretending to be a Special Ops guy. Back in my day, the Special Ops guys pretended to be submariners. Just saying....

8/15/2012 5:32 PM

Blogger Friendly Persuasion said...

Anon of 1601 I don't get what you are implying about Brad's comment. Ike wasn't not brazenly taking Kay Somersby out on was all wink wink she is my assistant.

PAtton's wife was on her way to divorce him because she found out he had not in fact given up the step-niece who had come over to Europe as a Red Cross volunteer...but he had his accident before she could start divorce proceedings.

The only point is that nothing has changed...there is no loss of moral compass because the moral compass has always been pointed at less than true North for some pretty sure that will never change

What Ward did is no different than many another CO has done...except now it makes it's way all around the world in less than a day.

8/15/2012 6:02 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Only retirees with their rose-colored glasses firmly in place believe that the numbers are any worse than they used to be."

Obviously, little whippersnapper, you don't have a clue.

I am retired and this has been going on forever. In fact, it was probably more prevalent back in the day (been there, done that, got the t-shirt).

The pussy (and the life support system around it) is now and has been, one of the most powerful things on earth. Wars have been started by it, diseases hve been caused by it, careers ruined, etc. etc.

And it will probably continue to be that way...although things may change slightly with the current attraction to the balloon knot.

Next story, nothing new to see hear.

8/15/2012 6:30 PM

Anonymous Served SSN CO said...

Well, alot of fun is being had rightfully poking Ward's dumb ass in the eye, but to put it in context, here are several discussions about why "Men of Power" do this crap.

Predominantly, too full of themselves and too stupid to think that they can't be caught.

Great background info for you aspiring XOs, COBs, and COs.

You'll be tempted in your position, even if you look like the "Fugly" NEB COB. Make your choice now and live with the consequences

8/15/2012 6:43 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

@ ANON 4:01 - why not come out of the closet and post your name?

Brad here.

First, 'sticks and stones', dude. Way to ruin your own argument.

Next, Ike was not above board. He used his position and influence to acheive access, availability and favor for his f-buddy. Somehow she was necessary as his "driver".

All under false pretenses and arguably much more directly punishable than Ward's shenanigans. Ike's actions included falsifying official documents, using his influence towards her citizenship and so on. Not much could be more crooked than that.

From the view of history we know what went on through letters, Summersby's own autobiography and so on but at the time it was not common knowledge outside Ike's work/social circle, wasn't open and above board - although rumors were rife.


8/16/2012 1:38 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

For you CO(SS) guys waiting on the bench, tell the "Coach" to put you in! PIT is a great boat, great crew, etc right now.

8/16/2012 2:33 PM

Blogger scada said...

When I was in boot camp at RTC Orlando, one of the Company Commanders was screwing a female recruit in our sister company. This was a PO1 air crew guy. The other CC was an A-Div Chief from a 637. The chief was nothing but military bearing and a good example of what integrity is. The other guy not so much.

8/16/2012 7:38 PM

Blogger Unknown said...

Has there been anything to validate that the 23 year old mistress is pregnant? Not that this is an issue to minimize the sheer stupidity of young Commander Ward.

Wonder if his wife has lawyered up yet. I sure as heck would have.

Once a cheater always a cheater. This guy has probably been tapping other poontang for years and has never been called out on it.

Does anyone remember if Capt Don Miller, former CSS-1 ever got busted while he was in Hawaii for tapping the young booty on island? I recall he had a little side action going on. His third, fourth wife, I can't remember the number dumped his ass too.

How long do you think it will take before we have the first sub female CO bang a JO's husband? I hope the ladies have a heck of a lot more smarts than this dumb ass.

I miss my old CO from Ustafish, I remember knocking on the door of his stateroom to deliver a message and heard the vacuum going during field day. Should have seen the shocked look on his face when I looked down and realized his pecker was getting a hummer by a Navy vacuum.

Last time I ever went in there.

God I miss the old days.

Later all :D

8/17/2012 2:44 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Miller time?

8/17/2012 4:22 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

So Waddle was responsible for killing 9 people. This guy cheated on his wife and lied about it. Ya, he is a dirt bag, but his negligence did not result in deaths. Nor did he risk his crews lifes by showing off.....

8/17/2012 7:54 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"...but his negligence did not result in deaths. Nor did he risk his crews lifes by showing off....."

He was only in command for seven days...two of those a weekend...luckily we will never know what this knucklehead was capable of!

8/17/2012 8:35 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

answer your final question: YES

A DEVRON 5 CO easily beat this a couple of years ago and shoved it in the face of his crew and wardroom. Up & down the chain covered for him and to hell with the ladies who got shafted.

8/18/2012 1:01 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Which DEVRON Commodore?

8/18/2012 4:37 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you said that this CO's actions were no big deal because people have been having sex with multiple partners for years, then you just told your wife she can sleep around whenever she wants. Enjoy that!

If you want that kind of life just come forward and be honest that you want to do this? That way you won't have to lie about being married and you can just find other people who feel the same way. You then wouldn't have to mess with those of us who think this kind of crap breaks up loved ones, causes severe pain and spreads disease as well as detracting from the order & discipline of any well run ship.

If you're covering something up and lying, you're doing it wrong.

8/18/2012 7:46 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...


Sounds like someone had a bad experience!

Dude, read the comment about the is waht it is!

8/18/2012 9:35 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why does Waddle's name have to come up every time? Is that the bench mark for fuckups? I never even knew the guy.

8/18/2012 1:12 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Because of the narrow-mindedness of most of the people that post here and they have nothing better to do in or with their life.

8/18/2012 1:45 PM

Anonymous 594tuff said...

This is a clear case of Bathsheba Syndrome. My bigger concern is the opportunities here for significant risk to national security during his earlier assignments. This could have been MUCH MUCH worse. Given that, if all the leadership and ethics training we go through cannot stop these issues, is there any way to? The poly is the only real offering I see. Scary thought given most would fail and the results are not actionable.

8/18/2012 5:26 PM

Blogger wtfdnucsailor said...

I don't know when polygraphs were introduced for HIgh Level clearences but I must say that I never heard of one being required durimg my time in the Navy (63-87). I would have been offended if asked to take a polygraph test and probably would not have done well because I would be so angry at the questioning of my integrity.

8/19/2012 11:16 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

The polygraphs started in the mid 80's after the Walker spy ring. I had only 2 during my time (1982-2006). and they were not that big of deal.

If that makes a person angry, I can only imagine what it would do when it came time to pee in a bottle, or go through a TSA pat down!

8/19/2012 1:40 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous @ 8/13/2012 12:00 PM said: "Wasn't there a CO (22 maybe) that was relieved for banging the ombudsman? Like 2007ish timeframe. I think it was a longer command tour, but definitely stupid."

The SSN-22 CO back then didn't *get relieved* for banging the OMB but he did do a lot of stupid crap and banged who knows how many girls at the same time. Don't know if one of the many ombudsmans he had was part of it. Rumors about wardroom wives I also don't know.

I heard he made plans to marry two separate ladies. One he tricked into moving overseas to a place he said he had orders after command but then went to a desk job stateside. The other one (long-distance relationship) he dumped his child on (from a couple of marriages back) during WESTPAC. A few months later, when the child became of age & moved on as an adult, he vanished on her.

He met his umpteenth wife during the same time both of those ladies were planning their weddings.

The crew & wardroom saw it all because they were introduced to the women. The Commodore & Flag officers were told and still gave him a band at his COC, O-6, and he is still a submariner.

and an asshat.

8/19/2012 5:17 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Don't forget about this twit:

8/19/2012 6:22 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sociopaths pass polygraphs

8/19/2012 8:41 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow. The PCO's girl lost the baby, became il, and was hospitalized. I've heard that story before. It's SSN-22's Christofferson all over again. Except I thought the Navy decided there was Nothing to see here. Move along.

This story is pretty tame in comparison to his shit.

8/19/2012 8:52 PM

Anonymous bullnav said...

I believe Dan Christofferson is one of the FLORIDA CO's now...

8/20/2012 9:12 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...


8/20/2012 9:55 AM

Blogger miss j said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

8/20/2012 6:55 PM

Blogger miss j said...

Please just stop. Anonymous comments only harm the innocent.

8/20/2012 7:46 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Only if they are innocent...
How do guys like Burke and Christofferson NOT get identified/reported if true. I'm apt to not believe any of it and chalk up to angry "submariners" who didn't get their way.

8/20/2012 8:22 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Pretty simple: Victims get ignored by a predator' s senior officers (Christofferson's last three direct submarine supervisors became admirals within a year or so after hearing about his actions).

Victims are also ignored by the junior officers who witness what happens and are too worried about their promotions.

Awesome. They all get to keep their precious 6 figure salaries through retirement and who cares about any one else?

Innocent victims lead shattered hollow lives while predators move on. They're still predators. If they were ruthless before they were threatened, what do you think they would do once they are threatened?

Of course victims live in fear.

8/20/2012 8:40 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

By the way, if you have a suggestion for how a civilian should report a senior officer as a sexual predator, then please do. Informing the senior leadership clearly doesn't work and every single man onboard watches and just sits around, giggling and gossiping like eight-year-old sissies while lives are unwittingly destroyed.

What should someone outside the submarine force do to be heard?

Practical suggestions would be welcome.

8/20/2012 8:47 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Post it on Wikileaks

8/20/2012 8:55 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

yeah because that'll work out so well for those who just want to get on with their lives after being caught in a drive-by ambush.

Your answer only confirms that the submarine leadership not only does not care about sexual predators but actively promotes them and there's nothing to be done about it.

8/20/2012 9:04 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

There are true victims, and participants in inappropriate adult behavior. For actual violations of both these, any Admiral (select) or currently serving CO, could be removed. Many have been recently. Some are derailed by travel fraud...we think they won't be by inappropriate conduct? Navy IG takes complaints where the accuser can remain anonymous to inspector/accuser (must be known to IG to prevent anonymous people with grudge), but this is typically within 90 days of offense. If it is a Crime, report it to NCIS. Don't let criminals continue. If not, report it to superiors. One was just at NPC and other in SUBGROUP 10. Otherwise, let it go and stop the slander.

8/21/2012 3:54 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, I know one who went to the IG with documentation but they declined to investigate. The superiors ignored it completely.

8/21/2012 7:45 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

A woman is not participating in consensual adult behavior if she is being lied to about a man's intentions or his double life. She didn't consent to that kind of arrangement.

Cracking jokes about the power of the p____ just makes you look like a bunch of pimply-faced junior high kids who can't acknowledge there are real people who are getting destroyed.

8/21/2012 8:20 AM

Anonymous jay the nuk said...



8/21/2012 8:51 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"A woman is not participating in consensual adult behavior if she is being lied to about a man's intentions or his double life. She didn't consent to that kind of arrangement."

Although I generally agree with your statement, in this case the woman appeared to be sleeping with a much older man who she barely knew. Had she never been to his house? Never seen any of his mail laying around? Never looked at his driver's license? Never seen any of his credit cards? Never met any of his friends? Never called him at work? There would appear to have been any number of ways that she could have figured out that he wasn't who he said he was, or at least there were some serious red flags that appear to have been ignored.

It's a crazy world out there. Not only women, but men too need to be more careful about who they meet and how they allow relationships to develop.

8/21/2012 10:40 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't know anything about that relationship or how it happened.

I know it's possible to visit a submarine and be introduced as a significant other and then to have someone else get the same introductions two weeks later. Similarly, you can meet parents and siblings and friends and find out afterwards that they had met all the women who were deceived. When everyone around the senior officer supports his lies, the situation can last for a long time, even years. Really.

People who lie like this do it without a conscience. I suspect junior officers who witness this crap are too intimidated to come forward. I do not understand the choices that friends and family make. Maybe they simply can't believe anyone could be that brazen and so there must be some other explanation.

It's easy to blame those who are manipulated by those who lack a conscience. It's a lot easier than acknowledging how horrific their experience was.

All it takes is for a bunch of people to be unwilling to come forward and tell the truth and then, when the truth tries to come out, to tear down the one who was deceived.

8/21/2012 12:48 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I didn't think I was trying to blame the woman in this case. The guy clearly bears the lion's share of the blame. I was, however, trying to come to grips with how she could apparently have had a relatively long-term, sexual relationship with someone she apparently knew so little about when a multitude of personal information about him seems so readily available. In this day and age, that approach is so dangerous as to be life-threatening, particularly in a big-city environment.

8/21/2012 2:40 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks for clarifying and my apologies for sounding like you were the one casting blame. There have been several comments along those lines.

My point is that this can happen because everyone around him stands around and does nothing while watching a horror show unfold.

You can share closet space and grocery bills with someone for several years and still not know what is happening if people in his community are willing to cover for him.

I don't think the big city has anything to do with it. After all, we all know that Bremerton and Groton are hardly Tokyo!

I think it has to do with a system that is rotten to its core with integrity problems. When people in that system refuse to even acknowledge victims who try to come forward, then there's no way to get that information out.

I'm impressed that this woman got her story heard. It's not as unusual as you might think.

8/21/2012 3:13 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Cracking jokes about the power of the p____ just makes you look like a bunch of pimply-faced junior high kids who can't acknowledge there are real people who are getting destroyed."

You think people are "cracking jokes"? The thing is very powerful. Open your eyes and see what is does to people...yes, as you said, real people are getting destroyed and it is by the pussy.

There are even books written about it and history is full of examples on the power.

8/21/2012 5:18 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I only re-mentioned that phrase because I was so shocked by it.

It's a disgusting phrase and takes away from what happens to healthy women who think they are building a life with a good partner.

Yes. Absolutely healthy women have, as this book describes, men lining up to date them.

Everyone should put their best foot forward and live life out loud. Celebrate each and everyone who gets to do that honestly and enjoy life doing it.

But seriously? In the submarine force? We're not talking about some oh-so-helpless poor innocent men being trapped by powerful, incredible enchanting women.

Get Real.

We're talking about a closed group of people (men so far) allowing a few senior officers to get away with lies and craziness to bang every single one they can email or find in a port call.

That group of people allows it because they're too afraid to call bullshit while lives, even lives of vibrant, healthy, honest women are pushed into disaster.

Don't try to excuse some idiots for their games and then blame beguiling women as the cause.

Especially don't do it when those women complain afterwords and are ignored.

That's just too ridiculous for words.

I can't believe this woman got heard but however she did it, good for her.

8/21/2012 5:34 PM

Anonymous mark/MM1(ss) said...

"Pushed into disaster"?, "Lives destroyed"? Please. A little dramatic, don't you think? Relationships end all the time. Miscarriages are very common. Marriages fail. It's called the human condition; people bounce back from way worse than anyone experienced here. It doesn't excuse callousness, but enough of the drama, for cryin' out loud.

8/21/2012 5:49 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

get over yourself.

Of course relationships end all the time. Miscarriages too. We've all been there done that.

Betrayal that leaves people isolated is bullshit.

8/21/2012 6:02 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Times have changed. Senior leaders would not turn a blind eye to this behavior now. Much like drinking behavior has changed, behavior/accountabilty of leaders will change. The courageous people (women, JOs) that come forward can help end these reigns of unbelievable "leaders". Facebook, blogs, etc. help identify these people earlier. Senior leaders of these past guys may have had hints but without solid reports it is a stretch to end careers. It unfortunately often requires the first courageous person to come forward.

8/21/2012 6:06 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

In other words: be a bloody grown up when it happens to you instead of a lying coward. Don't be a 4-year-old who tries to hide the truth.

And when you watch it happening ask yourself why you're hiding with the 40 -year-old who is while acting like the four-year-old?

Seriously the cover up always causes the worse problems for everyone.

8/21/2012 6:08 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I know that a handful of years ago it was ignored by the IG & my senior leaders who are now the Admirals.

If there's a way to still be heard. Bring it on. We want to know.

8/21/2012 6:10 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

ignored by *written statements* given by named individuals.

Don't dismiss the past as cowards so easily.

8/21/2012 6:11 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Relationships end all the time. Miscarriages are very common. Marriages fail."

No kidding. We all got that memo twenty years ago. That's why we expect our partners to be grownups instead of cowards. Heartbreak,mistakes and disappointment are fine. Betrayal and cruelty because someone is too much of a dickhead to face being older than aged twelve? That's bullshit and they should be called on it. Grow up or get help.

8/21/2012 6:58 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

mark/MM1(ss) said...
"Pushed into disaster"?, "Lives destroyed"? Please. A little dramatic, don't you think? Relationships end all the time. Miscarriages are very common. Marriages fail. It's called the human condition; people bounce back from way worse than anyone experienced here. It doesn't excuse callousness, but enough of the drama, for cryin' out loud.

No fooling. So why can't middle-aged powerful men be grownups instead of such babies? Talk about pussies.

Oh wait. You want their shit to hit their hospitalized victims as you put them down.

I think you missed the obvious clues on who are the drama queens.

COs or PCOs who get women pregnant and then continue to lead double/triple lives. They're just pretend men who can't even do the basics of adulthood.

8/21/2012 7:52 PM

Anonymous Calls 'em as I sees 'em said...

Another perspective and open question: Was Dirty Dave "betrayed"and treated with "cruelty"?

By the Nav's standards, as the senior member of the two (yes...a MIDN 1/C outranks an ETCM; get used to it), it was the Midshipman that who was abusing the senior-subordinate relationship.

So she was held more accountable...yes? Oh...wait...

8/21/2012 7:52 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

^^^^^Dude^^^^ seriously! No idea what you're talking about.

8/21/2012 8:18 PM

Anonymous Calls 'em as I sees 'em said...

^^^>>Yawn<< Imagine my surprise.

You can't see the double/NON-standard that's being applied in the case of "the Dirty Dave" verus Commander Ward? Seriously?

By the simple fact that the female middie outranked Dirty Dave, she should have been the one that got hammered. That is of course provided that 'the rules' were followed.

These days, though, it's a pretty simple situation. Meaning: What rules? Whose rules? There aren't any.

So in every case of female-male interaction that hits the headlines, it's a reactionary case of "Oh, I know...let's do *this*."

The one-week CO is a perfect example of this.

How so? Simple. How many other COs have been bagging (fill in the blank) women other than their wives?

Commander Ward's 'great offense' here is that he tells moronic stories to the women he plumbs on the side. Bad enough such that it's the stories that capture the headlines and people's imaginations...not the adultery by a man in command.

Again, if he broke a rule...what rule? Whose rule? Adultery under the UCMJ? Please.

There. Are. No. Rules. Because. There. Are. No. Leaders...

...just reactions.

8/21/2012 8:34 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"ignored by *written statements* given by named individuals.
Don't dismiss the past as cowards so easily."
To Anon:8/21/2012 6:11 PM

No dismissal was intended but if true you can always re-make your claim to a Reporter, who can then Freedom of Information Act written statements and actions (e-mails) taken about the subject "incident". The Seniors who dismissed/ignored the actions can be brought to task plus the offending events and perpetrator brought to light. There will be no ignoring an article like that. Unless really bad, you should let things lie. Maybe the dude was married to a true witch and letting loose some steam. Dragging his WR and the like into the lie sucks though. Maybe they are better now.(?)

8/21/2012 8:36 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

At Anon 8:34 PM:
Really? A MIDN officer candidate less than 4 years versus a Senior Enlisted Chief of the Boat .
To imply that the MIDN (male or female) should be more accountable than that Senior Enlisted Leader is ludicrous.
Ward was an idiot in a long line of idiots over time but one guy of about 30-35 in his YG. You would hope for better but a 10% failure is likely and this time in life a key transition for some (mid-life crisis) resulting in lunacy. We have some awesome, caring, phenomenal leaders that just do their job and you don't hear about them. If Joel did a blog entry on great serving leaders, you would get a ton of posts. Don't paint all these guys with the "Ward" brush.

8/21/2012 8:50 PM

Anonymous mark/MM1(ss) said...

The dumbass factor on this thread has gone through the roof. To the anonymous folks ripping my post, if you can read, you will see that I did not put down any of the injured parties of the inexcusable behavior of Ward and others. I have not seen anything indicating that the victims have had their lives "shattered" and "destroyed", just several knuckleheads posting here. Reprehensible as the philandering behavior is, the pain experienced (I've had my own experiences, too) by the injured is the sort experienced by most people in life, and that most of us move on from without having our lives "destroyed". That was the ONLY point I was trying to make...

8/21/2012 8:50 PM

Anonymous mark/MM1(ss) said...

Sorry - meant to say, "anything indicating that the victims had CLAIMED that their lives had been etc..."

8/21/2012 8:53 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"married to a witch..." oh please stop blaming other people for adults walking around acting like kids. If you have a problem in your marriage, then get over it and take care of it by getting divorced like the rest of it. Don't screw anyone else over with your drama and lies.

All of us get hurt in life. That's cool; it happens. Having assholes make shit up to protect their own smell? They need to be called on it. When they aren't? People have a right to get angry if they're getting slammed because they're dealing with someone else's shit.

The woman in this story has her family and friends close by & she also, miraculously got heard by brass. She'll be okay. Not everyone has been that lucky. For reals. There's a lot of COs out there acting like two-year-olds.

I'd agree there are no rules because lying and acting like kids seems to be okay in the submarine officer world even if it's not okay among real adults.

8/21/2012 9:01 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey mark/mm1(ss) s, I think this thread hit a nerve. I know it's gotten attention in our survivors forum.

I agree that it's not about miscarriages or about relationship ending. That stuff is EASY. Kind of shocking that that an officer can't deal with it. Isn't it? What kind of bubble do you all really live in? Seriously? Join the rest of adulthood already.

What are they afraid of? Humiliation? Didn't expect a baby, now what will people think? Yeah, no one wants to admit it, but humiliation hurts. That's all the more reason why it's pathetic for a senior officer to push humiliation on to his girl.

And then there's betrayal. Loss of the system we thought we had to depend on. Maybe that's why the senior officers in these stories were such weenies instead of just doing the normal thing? Because they were afraid they might lose they support system if they did? So, it's okay to live someone suddenly alone facing a new life because you're too afraid to? Wow. If that's what we have for bravery in our navy leadership, I'm less than impressed.

I'm guessing that if humiliation and betrayal are burdens that even a fancy tough submarine CO hero is afraid of, well then maybe I wouldn't be so quick to put down someone who is upset to have gone through them herself.

8/21/2012 9:27 PM

Anonymous mark/MM1(ss) said...

Now I get it...the submariner blog has been overrun by Oprah's Book Club. It's a free country...

8/21/2012 9:47 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

nice dismissal but completely wrong assumption. nice try though.

When you're ready to sit at the grownup's table, we'll be ready.

8/21/2012 9:50 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

FOIA suggestion:

do you have experience with that working? The reporter I spoke to thinks stonewalling is common for municipal issues and so doesn't think there's much realistic hope of getting the information. Also, there's a question of how long emails like this are actually kept by people who just hit delete.

Situations that are seen as personal (even ones involving comical lies, miscarriages and other lives) do not usually get anyone's attention or sympathy.

8/21/2012 10:36 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

So funny to realize that some guys still think this is about infidelity or any other of life's ups and downs. It's about dealing with a coward! Why bother?

8/22/2012 1:00 AM

Anonymous ROFLMAO said...

"To imply that the MIDN (male or female) should be more accountable than that Senior Enlisted Leader is ludicrous."



YES, my little shit pump...the Navy's CURRENT system of saying that a MIDN 1/C female outranks an ETCM male is L U D I C R O U S .

So indeed you are correct. The Navy is FUBAR.

8/22/2012 7:13 AM

Anonymous ROFLMAO said...

"Ward was an idiot in a long line of idiots over time but one guy of about 30-35 in his YG."

Speaking of L U D I C R O U S .

If you're claiming that only one in 30-35 officers in the Navy are/have-been bagging women on the side, then you must not be in (a) the U.S. Navy, (b) the U.S. Navy Submarine Force, (c) your right mind or (d) possession of any credibility whatsoever.

8/22/2012 7:29 AM

Anonymous Calls 'em as I sees 'em said...

This is all, of course, a very, very old story. Men like women. Women like men. Lines get crossed...and uncrossed...and recrossed...and...there you are.

Having an event such as Commander Ward (granted, his style is questionable), or Dirty Dave, or (fill in the blank) isn't the one and only event of their lives. It's a defining one only in the eye of the beholder.

Everyone struggles with their own sexual nature. Everyone. Some get run up the flagpole by way of being in a position of trust and 'failing' others expectations. Just is.

Along these lines, and with nothing but respect, fair winds and following seas to former submarine Rear Admiral Ralph L. Tindall -- fellow all-too-human being -- who died earlier this month.

Love conquers all, Ralph...hold your head high. We're all just looking at the backside of the tapestry.

8/22/2012 8:17 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

In history: Los Angeles Times Military Affairs (mmm yeah...that kind).

8/22/2012 8:30 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

The point isn't too scold young ladies for not having been more careful because they should know there are dangerous and untrustworthy people in the big city.

The point is the Navy should be more careful than to put people like these wankers in command. They shouldn't be trusted by a single woman but the country should trust these self-serving bastards with a submarine?

That's crazy.

8/23/2012 9:04 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Many stories include more than one point. This story certainly does.

Whether man or woman, to be involved in a long-term, sexual relationship with a person and you don't even know their real name or what they do for a living is also crazy. In modern society, it's taking your life in your hands.

8/23/2012 9:34 AM

Anonymous Tat said...

^^^...and only adding to your point regarding actions & intentions, here are some additional words of wisdom -- in fact, an equation of wisdom -- for all:


Have that one tattooed to your chest (or breast) so that you can read it in the mirror. Truer words were never said...and they will take you far in life. And after.

8/23/2012 10:03 AM


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