Comings And Goings
As I'll be heading to the land of the dial-up Internet connections for the next several days (my parents' farm in Nebraska), I figured I'd leave a post for all who want to keep the conversation going. Here are a few possible topics:
1) USS Charlotte (SSN 766) returned home to Pearl from Westpac on Tuesday. Here's a picture of her pulling in:
Note that the accompanying article, while acknowledging the 28 crew members who earned their dolphins, doesn't mention which port visits they got. Especially for an official Navy article, that usually means the ones they did get were to the "less desirable" ports of call in the Pacific. However, the use of the code phrase "experienced the dynamic operational environment of the Western Pacific" let's everyone who knows know pretty much exactly what they were doing. It's deployments like this one that, while not providing crew members with a lot of pictures to share with family and friends, are more likely to allow them to wear a NUC. Welcome home, guys.2) All Hands magazine for June 2011 has a cover shot of USS New Hampshire (SSN 778) surfaced through the Arctic ice, along with an article about the recently concluded ICEX 2011. The Atlantic also has several good pictures of the boats involved in this photo essay.
3) The XO of USS Dwight D. Eisenhower (CVN 69) was just fired for undisclosed reasons. In other news about carriers named for presidents, the Navy recently announced that CVN 79 will be named USS John F. Kennedy. Personally, I think that any SECNAV who leaves office without ensuring that the name Enterprise is attached to a commissioned or soon-to-be commissioned vessels should feel like he threw away 235 years of Naval history in order to be a political sell-out. But that's just my opinion. I'd like to hear yours about any facet of ship naming.
4) How 'bout them Mavericks/Heat/Canucks/Bruins?
posted by Bubblehead at 1:43 PM
62 Comments:
the use of the code phrase "experienced the dynamic operational environment of the Western Pacific" let's everyone who knows know pretty much exactly what they were doing.
Ah yes, did three of those - and they all sucked.
6/02/2011 2:35 PM
What is "dial-up internet?" Wouldn't it be faster to just open the window and yell in 1's and 0's?
Undisclosed reasons? Seen this movie before, didn't like it....
6/02/2011 5:14 PM
Funny how you mention SECNAVs and "political sellout" in the same sentence, given our esteemed SECNAV's penchant for PCism and naming ships for individuals who hated the Navy in the name of "diversity."
And as far as sucky Westpacs, hey--did five of them. The one where I got the NUC had some decent liberty ports. It was the last couple where the liberty ports were a joke.
6/02/2011 5:35 PM
They should name one of the next two submarines after Fluckey, but that's the only even modestly firm opinion I have on the matter.
6/02/2011 5:53 PM
Here is your list list of Submarine names. The other two admirals in this group got Targets.
6/02/2011 6:05 PM
Let me guess. In second grade, little Bobby Gamberg pulled a girl's hair during recess. Some member of the Ike's crew repeatedly disciplined at Mast found out about it and anonymously reported him to the SECNAV as being mysogynistic. Mabusitis took care of the rest.
6/02/2011 6:22 PM
They pulled into Yokosuka for a bit, which offers some idea of where they might be needed.
http://www.stripes.com/news/navy/gum-patches-and-anger-management-submariners-adjust-to-life-without-smokes-1.134753
6/03/2011 12:33 AM
Naming a CVN after President Kennedy respects the wishes of Admiral Rickover. As a JO on SSN 709, one of us was tasked to pick up his wife and escort her from DC to Norfolk for a boat function. One story she shared with me was that one of the Admiral's greatest regrets was that the "Best President" only received a conventional carrier as a namesake.
6/03/2011 1:29 AM
Those "dynamic" missions that require Yoko port calls are the most fun I had while in the navy. Made all the laps we made around Oahu worthwhile.
6/03/2011 6:21 AM
From the same limp-wristed, spineless, sackless bunch who gave you open-homos and females on boats, comes lower pay!
6/03/2011 10:16 AM
War heroes seem to get destroyers and frigates; that's a pretty well-rooted tradition. I actually kind of like the idea of a 'can bearing his name; it's poetic in a way.
6/03/2011 4:14 PM
Yes, Admiral Mullen, let's not gut the hardware. Gut the overpriveleged Americans doing the grunt work!
6/03/2011 8:27 PM
My single tour was on the East Coast, so I only saw Atlantic and Med ports. What is the current hierarchy of West Pac ports of call, in terms of desirability?
6/04/2011 8:56 AM
In regards to pay cuts...
Jeez, you guys who voted for Obama didn't think you'd be rewarded or anything, did you? Cutting the military is what Democrats do. Duh!
6/04/2011 11:42 AM
"What is the current hierarchy of West Pac ports of call, in terms of desirability?"
Hong Kong
Perth/Freemantle
Pattaya
Brisbane
-
Singapore*
Phuket*
Darwin*
-
Fiji
Saipan
-
Yokosuka
Guam
-
Sasebo
-
Chinhae*
Okinawa
*places I have not been but boats go to very frequently so position approximate based on reputation
If you include all ships not just nuke subs, people who have been to
Vladivostok and Vietnam say it's the best liberty they've had, rivaling both Hong Kong and Australia
6/04/2011 3:29 PM
I would put Chinhae above Guam. Guam is usually a working port, with libs on the side. Chinhae is a liberty port, and if you don't mind risking the off-limits list, it has a lot to offer. Guam has some fun to offer also, but is played pretty quick.
6/04/2011 4:39 PM
As a veteran of 13 "dynamic operations", 7 Westpacs, 3 NorPac runs, 1 ice ex and 5 patrols from 88 to 08, I would love to go on a WESTPAC today! Tridents?? Forget about it..waste of time in my world!
Never made it to Australia. :( But had been to alot of great ports. My fav, Hong Kong, any port in Japan and Pattaya Beach Thailand!
Glad I am retired though...
This article from the Washington Post hits it on the head!!!
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/may/28/navy-too-politically-correct-for-old-salts/
Enjoying retirement and not taking a breathalizer before duty/work!
STSCS(SS/SW) USN RET
6/04/2011 8:14 PM
Tridents ARE a waste of time, should be manned by the Air Force and female crews. ;)
6/05/2011 3:36 AM
Next topic should be: Fast Boats vs Trident/Boomer service. That would be a lively debate.
6/05/2011 3:38 AM
Potential cuts in benefits? Welcome to the real world. My net compensation has been reduced for the last eight years with the cost of the benefits paid by the employee going up more than base pay.
6/05/2011 9:00 AM
Why do we do SPECOPS when we can just sit back and watch YOU TUBE?
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/submarine-captain-in-hot-water-over-youtube-tirade/438095.html
6/05/2011 10:16 AM
"...should be manned by the Air Force and female crews."
Well, you at least got half of it right!
Actually, finishing my career on SSBN's was the smartest thing I ever did. All told, the best 9 years of shore duty ever!
Retired ANAV
6/05/2011 10:19 AM
Potential cuts in benefits? Welcome to the real world. My net compensation has been reduced for the last eight years with the cost of the benefits paid by the employee going up more than base pay.
Quite the myopic view you've got. If you don't like your compensation, quit and find a better gig. But for the military to cut benefits, it will reduce the quality and number of personnel available - which is why chicks will be allowed on boats, or so we were told.
6/05/2011 11:15 AM
Chicks on boats don't worry me. It's if/when there are offspring conceived that scares me. Didn't you see Godzilla? Conception and zygote growth in an induced radiation field sounds like a good boat movie.
Menstrual issues won't be much different than planning for more sonar guys on board, and they'll use the same amount of shower water too. Win-win, there, IMHO.
6/05/2011 4:59 PM
Quite the myopic view you've got. If you don't like your compensation, quit and find a better gig. But for the military to cut benefits, it will reduce the quality and number of personnel available - which is why chicks will be allowed on boats, or so we were told.
Career military personnel earn more than their civilian counterparts with comparable education levels. If you think the military is underpaying for quality people (e.g. you), you should quit and take a shot at making more money in the civilian world! (Hint: if you leave at any point after your JO shore tour, you will almost certainly take a large pay cut, barring business/law/med school.) If money were a primary motivator of the stay/leave decision, retention would be >80%)
6/05/2011 7:38 PM
Career military personnel earn more than their civilian counterparts with comparable education levels. If you think the military is underpaying for quality people (e.g. you), you should quit and take a shot at making more money in the civilian world! (Hint: if you leave at any point after your JO shore tour, you will almost certainly take a large pay cut, barring business/law/med school.) If money were a primary motivator of the stay/leave decision, retention would be >80%)
Actually I was an enlisted nuke and got out after six. Made more than the XO my first year out - and it's gone up every year since. I've also moved around and quit jobs for better pay elsewhere. If you've got the sack to quit and take your chances, you might be rewarded.
6/05/2011 8:09 PM
Actually I was an enlisted nuke and got out after six. Made more than the XO my first year out - and it's gone up every year since. I've also moved around and quit jobs for better pay elsewhere. If you've got the sack to quit and take your chances, you might be rewarded.
Certainly possible, not at all typical. Excluding me, none of the 20 or so JOs I knew on the boat ended up making more on the outside. (I got an advanced degree.) And not everyone wants to spend the rest of his life doing nuclear power!
6/05/2011 8:54 PM
Career military personnel earn more than their civilian counterparts with comparable education levels.
Yup--I'm throwing the bullshit flag there too, especially if you go by hourly pay. Imagine being a PO1 being paid $40-plus an hour, with OT after 8 and Saturdays, and DT on Sundays?
And for the record, even when you consider "the bennies" that we all got on AD, I still took home nearly double what I was taking home before I got out--and I got out as a married ET1/SS living in California. My pay has also risen dramatically in the decade since, to the point where I'm making MORE headway.
Active guys got what, 1.4 percent this year? I got 4 percent. I also see that Sea Pay hasn't gone up in almost 10 years. Sub pay hasn't gone up in 7. SRB's? Only if you're a SEAL or a nuke, and even then...but I'm looking at a bonus of about 6 percent a year, give or take.
Even if the money were the same and I had to pay for my own insurance, there's no comparison. I go home every night. Can you make the same claim?
6/05/2011 8:57 PM
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/120xx/doc12042/01-20-Compensation.pdf
http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=1354&type=0&sequence=4
Now go get your own data...maybe a quick poll of your boatmates and their current salary situation. More stream of consciousness rambling would be fun too.
6/05/2011 10:11 PM
The CBO? Puh-leez. They'll tell you the sky is pink if you give them the right data. Look at what they've done with the "projections" they're given by certain parties in Congress and the White House.
And FWIW, a lot of the folks where I work are ex-nukes. Not all of us mow lawns after we get out. But nice to see that you didn't address the lack of SRB/increases in SDAP/Sea/Sub pay.
6/06/2011 12:16 AM
One of the comments on the pay article brought up overseas bases. I don't claim to have all the answers but did a little research and thought for a while on it now that I have lived in Italy for a couple years.
I don't see why we have so many overseas bases, particularly in Europe. A handful of strategic hubs should be all we are maintaining.
The US government is paying other countries to lease the land. We pay OHA that is three times what any local would pay for rent. We pay for stuff like DoD schools (the facilities, supplies, teachers...). We import “American” goods (i.e. Betty Croker, ketchup, the same “made-in-china” stuff you’d get at Walmart…). We hire foreign nationals to work in our commissaries and BX/PX/NEX. More foreign nationals for property maintenance (mowing the grass, etc). COLA. Service members are paying European road taxes… The list goes on and on.
There would be a large cost associated with closing the bases (stuff built into SOFAs) and we would probably have to build new facilities in the states to support the moved commands (again, a large cost) but at least at that point we are employing Americans. At least that money would be benefiting our country feeding our local economies.
Two major COCOMs and all the components and no real assets (troops, ships, etc get chopped to the AOR). Why can’t that same admin be done from the states?
I am surprised this doesn’t get brought up… Spend money now to create jobs and save money in the future, rather than stick with the status quo because it looks cheaper on a couple year comparison.
6/06/2011 3:50 AM
“Career military personnel earn more than their civilian counterparts with comparable education levels.”
The bigotry of education. I once had a professor that told me much the same thing. Of course she had never served and had no idea what we did. The only thing that counted, at least for her, was how many degrees you had. How unfortunate to see the same thing here.
6/06/2011 6:20 AM
I know what I made when in, and what I make after leaving. "Real" world paid better, the hours are better, nobody wakes me up to cover stupidity, and I do my job all day- no wiping down horizontal surfaces that have painted-on dust for stupid reasons. And on and on.
And I'm not even in a nuclear field.
6/06/2011 10:36 AM
This past year, the Naval Academy's best candidate for a Rhodes Scholarship just missed selection. A good indication of what went wrong was one of the selectors chastising the midshipman for choosing the military over life as a promising (civilian) scientist. Hope and Change in action.
6/06/2011 10:42 AM
Anon @ 10:42 - what is your source for this info on Rhodes Scholar selection? This would be worth looking into...
6/06/2011 11:29 AM
Couple of comments.....
Overseas bases--Starting in 1991 following the first gulf war, Army and Air Force closed a lot of bases in Europe. No requirement for BRACC. In most cases give 90 to 120 days notice to the government. Example: 1990 eleven Air Force bases in UK. 1993 two, Lakenheath and Mildenhall. I do agree with previous comments about overseas basing, we need to close a lot of that stuff including bases in Japan. time to quite playing world policeman. All we're doing is letting a lot of these countries off the hook for providing for their own defense requirements. Hell, just let the Americans do it!!
Some history on military pay reductions. In the early 1930's during the depression military pay was reduced by 10% for several years. I know, I know, we weren't at war then. However, life in the military was pretty hard during that time, many were happy to just have three hots and a flop.
6/06/2011 12:29 PM
I work for a gov contractor with many other ex-Navy - retired and otherwise. All say at some point in conversations that they would have never made the pay and incentives that they do in the private sector. There are always exceptions, retirees that take union positions would likely take a cut.
6/07/2011 12:21 AM
Whether the pay is better of worse in the military is irrelevant. Name one employer who has total control of your life.
While at sea, I was told what to do, when to do it, and how to do it - even when I slept. The pay for the military is compensation for the 24 hour/day job you do; not the arduous 40 hour work week in the private sector.
Even on shore duty, my ass was governed by "local military authority". If anyone in the military took a picture of his dick, sent it to his twitter page, and lied about doing it, he would be (at a minimum) written up for Captain's Mast. (In reference to Weiner's weener - and he isn't stepping down)
Military pay is not great; good, but not great. If you don't pay people to put up with life threatening situations on a regular basis, you will see 8 year chiefs and 12 year captains. Cut something else - something that drains the economy without a return for the money - WELFARE. (and I didn't say abolish it, I said cut it)
6/07/2011 4:55 AM
Anon @ 11:29 -
In 2010, then Midshipman Stephen Honan finished third in District 6 during the Rhodes competition. The top 2 in each of the 16 districts are awarded Rhodes Scholarships.
Among Midshipman Honan's other achievements in science, an essay he wrote won the Anwarul Quadir Prize, an annual global competition sponsored by the Center for International Development (CID) at the John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University, and the Anwarul Quadir Foundation, a U.S.-based foundation promoting innovations for Bangladesh.
Professor Fleming at the Naval Academy may be able to provide further information.
6/07/2011 4:56 AM
Anon at 04:56 - good info - I certainly don't doubt the Mid's qualifications. But, again, what is your source that he was not selected due to his military career choice?
6/07/2011 5:49 AM
Anon at 5:49 -
The mid finished 3rd and the top 2 received scholarships.
I was told that one of the selectors chastised the mid for choosing the military over life as a scientist. My source received that information directly from the mid. If you want the exact wording of that exchange, you'll have to talk to the mid, now an Ensign.
I can't definitively say that the mid was not selected due to the mid's military career choice, but it's difficult to imagine that the selector who chastised the mid could fully set aside their prejudice in order to evaluate the mid fairly and objectively. And it wouldn't take much to go from 2nd to 3rd in a Rhodes district.
I don't know whether the selector is anti-military per se, but the selector appeared to see the mid's choice of military service as somewhat of a waste compared to life as a scientist in terms of what the mid might contribute to society.
6/07/2011 7:29 AM
CO of CONNECTICUT fired...
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2011/06/navy-submarine-connecticut-co-varney-fired-060711w/
6/07/2011 1:09 PM
Not the only one this week
6/07/2011 4:35 PM
The CONNECTICUT CO firing is very unfortunate. He is/was a very intelligent and competent leader/warfighter.
6/07/2011 6:03 PM
Mishandling classified material? Not on that alone (unless crypto--in which case he'd be looking at much worse), but I can see where the obstruction would make him go bye-bye.
6/07/2011 6:46 PM
Leave after JO tour / first enlistment is great. Agreed. I had a nuke MM2 leave and make ~16K salary a month..yes he showed me the pay stub, no bonus..straight time. Be willing to travel 8-10 months a year and you can make the money. He works on startup projects and moves regularly, and doesn't even have to travel to iszrakkastan, but he can make more that way if he wants. You have to realize that the idiots on the inside will be the idiots on the outside. I told him I could re-enlist him for 90K and he told me that he would rather eat garbage and live in the streets...we were keeping him til 7-8pm nightly and letting the idiots go at 4pm while inport, not mine..command decision.
In fact, during my own job search I was frequently told that there were positions paying 113K-145K base salary per year that were unfilled for several years because people wouldn't relocate or deal with the travel. Bottom line, no one is going to pay you good money to live at home, walk down the street and work 9-5.
On one hand you have the izracckastan contractor making 283K per year tax free and a school teacher at 30k per year (..SC schools)..find where you want to be.
6/07/2011 8:26 PM
Former F/A LT, I got offered 115k per year, not including benefits/bonus, some travel and and after tax/medical I take home the same or a little more. I get to see my wife and family regularly, and overall I am happier and think that I will probably live longer because of it. I could have made more going to the homer simpson world, or traveling more, but for my family and me it was a great decision. I have friends that stayed in for the money, some happy out at sea and hate their homelife and nagging spouse, some say fml daily . I miss the quality of the people I used to work with, but the slugs on the outside get a pink slip and not a good deal. Best wishes, and as my old A-div chief used to say, "Pride Runs Deep,but dont get carried away sir, we have depth restrictions for a a reason."
6/07/2011 8:48 PM
Being from South Carolina and with the nuclear power program still there you would think we could get a new Virginia class SSN named after the state (last was a nuclear cruiser when those were around, so we're due), but I guess we dont have the lobbyists needed and sorry but I gotta work my day job. just throwing the idea around.
-Prototype pro
6/07/2011 8:51 PM
{Certainly possible, not at all typical. Excluding me, none of the 20 or so JOs I knew on the boat ended up making more on the outside. (I got an advanced degree.) And not everyone wants to spend the rest of his life doing nuclear power!}
JOs don't typically make more at first, but 6-and-out enlisted seem to. Other than the degree, JO experience isn't really valued more than enlisted experience, at least in the non-nuclear world. Lesson for enlisted guys - get a degree. Its really important.
There is plenty of money to be made in the civilian world, if that's what you want. Any ideas that you are taking a permanent step down in pay is foolish, so long as you have the ability to adapt. Former officers of the type who point at the collars or complain about "being forced to play politics with the enlisted" tend to do very badly in civlant. I've seen the fail.
6/07/2011 9:52 PM
JO = degree, thats the bottom line for most employers, engineering ones particularly, the same for enlisted. I agree with previous post. Friends don't let friends get degrees in advanced basket weaving or the such. My .02
Corporate america is great, be positive, upbeat, competent and you will always be rewarded or another company will snatch you up. Just look at how Facebook snatched like 20% of their workforce from google. Always network, give a card, and give thanks. Cheers
6/08/2011 5:22 AM
News reporting CO SSN-22 has been relieved for cause. Interestingly, this time it sounds pretty original. There's even an NJP and findings of guilt.
6/08/2011 6:41 AM
There is a great video of a russian kilo taken by uk press during BOLD MONARCH.
6/08/2011 6:49 AM
Anon@0649 - that wasn't very helpful shipmate! How about a link to the video!
6/08/2011 12:56 PM
Word on the waterfront is that the Connecticut CO was fired for mismanagement of classified documents whilst on an IA prior to command. Talk about a good deal that trip was!
6/08/2011 5:18 PM
Wow!!! If true, just another incentive to volunteer for a "career enhancing" IA!!!
6/08/2011 6:40 PM
Be careful guys, whatever is being thrown around may still have somewhat of a classified nature to it, so unless you know something has been officially released through official DOD channels, then you should not assume it is fit for public consumption.
6/08/2011 9:25 PM
Had a Nav who wanted to go by the book and classify our charts to level of the movement directive or OPSKED...AND put our ship's name on it! I told him it was dumb for a lot of reasons, gave him some options but he insisted. Oh well, your worship, so we did as he ordered.
Well a couple of months later we are transiting on the surface off of South Korea. The Nav is the Navsup when the OOD calls down and says the wind grabbed the chart (duly protected by a clear plastic chart bag) and blew it over the side.
I was getting ready to relieve him but when we heard that, he looked at me with one of those 'help me, Chief" looks. I just laughed and said "Nav, you are an idiot, I will relieve you when you figure out how to get our SECRET chart back before it floats up to Vlad" and then I left control.
I came back up a few hours later and the XO had the watch. I relieved the XO and said "I guess I am in trouble for calling the Nav an idiot?" The XO looks at me, says he stands relieved and said "No Chief, because I called him a fucking idiot"!
Never did get that chart back.
Jim C.
Retired ANAV
6/08/2011 9:55 PM
Ps. We stopped classifying and labeling our name on the bridge charts....just like I had recommended before.
Jim C.
6/08/2011 9:58 PM
Connecticut CO firing-- my God, what a heartbreak, to lose a commander (and a good man) of that caliber.
We can't afford to keep tossing good men like this.
I wish him all the best.
6/09/2011 5:45 AM
Deleted a comment. To the person who left the comment, it was a close call on my part, but I decided to err on the side of caution in this case.
6/09/2011 10:23 AM
Deleting a spamment.
6/09/2011 8:46 PM
Go Bruins! But can you believe a "custom" jersey of a player not Chara or Lucic would take 6-8 weeks to ship if ordered from NHL.com? Sad.
6/15/2011 12:57 PM
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