Keeping the blogosphere posted on the goings on of the world of submarines since late 2004... and mocking and belittling general foolishness wherever it may be found. Idaho's first and foremost submarine blog. (If you don't like something on this blog, please E-mail me; don't call me at home.)

Friday, March 02, 2012

News, Notes, And A Musing

Sorry for the light posting; here are some new discussion points:

1) Here's a story from Navy Times discussing how three of the eight total female Chops assigned to submarines were removed for "allegedly committing fraud prior to checking in at their boats". That's quite a coincidence, unless we're to assume that 37.5% of O-3 Supply Officers normally commit fraud.

2) The Chinese announced that they're researching using UAVs with "genetic algorithms" to hunt for submarines. Because that's a much better way of doing things that getting actual people actual experience in ASW. For my PRC readers: us American Submariners are very afraid of your new initiative. We really hope that you don't put all of your R&D money into this program.

3) The Navy has a new anti-excessive drinking initiative. Have you ever seen a Navy drinking initiative that didn't make you laugh your ass off that didn't involve displaying the wrecked car of a Sailor who had died in a DUI-related accident?

4) At work the other night, we found a broken chair, and because it was a "Friday" night and I was in an expansive mood, I opined that the cause of the chair breaking was "brittle fracture", and I kind of surprised myself by rattling off the approved NNPS definition of same. The fact that I remembered it after so long made me realize how strongly the Submarine Force really pounded into our heads those rules that we absolutely, positively can't violate. I started thinking of those inviolable rules, and came up with a few, in no particular order of importance:

** Don't violate BFPL
** Don't mess up seawater tagouts
** Don't run into anything (ocean floor, other ships, the pier)
** Don't get counter-detected when on station
** Don't go out of area
** Don't steal from your shipmates

How would you rank these rules in order of importance? And can you think of some other inviolable rules?

201 Comments:

Blogger Curt said...

New Kitty Litter!

3/02/2012 2:06 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Absolutely and without fail the ERS had to toast Lilly Bro when coming on watch. This obviously to ensure her continued cooperation during his watch.

3/02/2012 2:08 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

women on subs... When did that happen??? Next thing you know, Middie skirts will be hooking up with ...oh wait... nevermind

3/02/2012 2:10 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

" That's quite a coincidence, unless we're to assume that 37.5% of O-3 Supply Officers normally commit fraud."

If that number is representative of female supply officers maybe we should fill more chop billets with women.

3/02/2012 2:22 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Of the 8 chops, 3 are subjects of a NCIS travel fraud probe. My guess is that they had served together at one time or attended the same college.

Fraud with strangers is sort of a big reach, because 37.5% of O-3 Supply Officers normally do not commit material acts of fraud.

Maxwell

3/02/2012 2:22 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If they met at college, and it turns out they got taxpayer funded free educations, the Navy will have an even larger problem.

3/02/2012 2:26 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Adding to your "Don't" list

Dont Fuck around while performing switch gear testing

3/02/2012 2:29 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Don't open the ball valve when they are blowing sans.

3/02/2012 3:00 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Blow down the San hose before disconnecting!

3/02/2012 3:09 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here's Alcohol de-glamorization for you, my Command's coin is a bottle opener!

3/02/2012 3:11 PM

 
Blogger SJV said...

The only way for the Chinese to get a UAV that would find subs is for them to steal it after we develop it.

3/02/2012 3:29 PM

 
Anonymous Bullnuke said...

I served as an enlisted EOOW on an elderly cruiser. Our BFPL was very limited. The rule was "Don't smoke dope, don't screw yer sister and don't violate BFPL". When I saw the letters "BFPL" I started to go into convulsions and swallow my tongue. I remember cooldowns and, suddenly, needed a drink to put it all into prospective... Just git 'er down around the knee in the curve....

3/02/2012 4:48 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

In order of the topic post:

1) These ladies are in pretty hot water. Sounds like they may have colluded to cheat the travel claim system.

2) Excuse me while I yawn.

3) Short answer: no, in 18 years, I have not. Ever.

4) Don't run into anything is paramount. Don't steal is probably next. One of the first things I was told years ago, reporting to my first boat, was "Never, under any circumstances, no matter how hot she is, fuck a shipmate's wife or girlfriend." Which kinda falls under "Don't steal". Don't mess up seawater tagouts is obviously important, but I don't know that anybody gets too worked up about out-of-area anymore, unless its a deep-boat/shallow-boat situation. Other than that, you fly a message and counsel some people. Nobody's gotten fired over it lately as far as I'm aware.

3/02/2012 4:49 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Don't piss off the cooks.

3/02/2012 4:53 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

or Doc, or the Yeomen

3/02/2012 4:58 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

or Doc, or the Yeomen

3/02/2012 4:58 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Or A-Gang

3/02/2012 5:03 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why, will the cooks save us by "Not Cooking"? PBJ is much better anyway.

DOC? He has to get out of the rack to give a shit anyway. Takes too much initiative.

The YNs: They are challenged processing the mail, and have no clue dealing with PSD ashore, who is also clueless.

As for A Div - They can run or fuc* a ship, depending on their operational and maintenance practices.

3/02/2012 5:13 PM

 
Anonymous 3383 said...

(nuc, not sub)
Don't violate cold water interlocks.
Unless you don't want the hotel loads to be interrupted while pierside.

Hell, there are still equations stuck in my head I could reproduce. At least the heat transfer ones are still useful.

And golly, that's a high percentage of cherry-picked officers to get caught doing something stupid. Did they pile all of their household goods into the same truck for the weight and claim the same weight each?

3/02/2012 5:26 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What the hell were thy thinking? They had to know they were under a microscope. Hope they didn't spend all the loot in one place.

3/02/2012 5:35 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

3383:
You might be closer than you know...

3/02/2012 5:39 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So since these are the finest females available for submarine chops, i wonder how it compares to the % of male O-3's in the same situation? Oh wait thats not addressed. I just smile and wait for the story to pop on navy times. The big navy deserves stuff like this to happen for playing up integration would have no issues. How about people mann up and say, yes we expect issues to arise and we will try to address them in a professional manner. Instead, you pissed off at least some males and if they were the ones processing your travel claim, cant say people didnt warn you.

3/02/2012 6:55 PM

 
Anonymous FastAttackLT said...

F/A LT - the hitting stuff is probably the biggest one and the one i think would make pride run permanently deeper.

The rest of the stuff I can deal with.

The females...well I did have my guesses on how long it would take for one of you to get to admiral's mast for sleeping with an enlisted male, but this i guess is a faster way to get attention. Glad it wasnt a qualified female watch officer or three on the same boat. Good luck manning that watchbill afterwards.

3/02/2012 6:58 PM

 
Anonymous commoncents said...

Stealing from the boat is one thing, stealing from your shipmates is worse, stealing from the government....gfl with that

3/02/2012 7:00 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

#1 Don't hit on the commodore's wife, even in jest.

#2 When you've violated #1 at a public function and she likes it, you're in the sh*ts.

#3 When you run into her later at the exchange and she tells you that the commodore will be riding a boat the following week, run.

3/02/2012 7:26 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon @ 3/02/2012 5:35 PM
"What the hell were thy thinking?"

My guess is that they could have been thinking, "Let's milk this historic opportunity cradelled in female favoritism for all its worth!"

The bigger question is where were tey schooled? Which ethical system, if any, was expected of them?

Hopefully, it was not the USNA's Honor Code. Otherwise, taxpayers are being royally screwed by matriculation criteria, wouldn';t you say?

3/02/2012 7:27 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon @ 3/02/2012 5:35 PM
"What the hell were thy thinking?"

My guess is that they could have been thinking, "Let's milk this historic opportunity cradelled in female favoritism for all its worth!"

The bigger question is where were tey schooled? Which ethical system, if any, was expected of them?

Hopefully, it was not the USNA's Honor Code. Otherwise, taxpayers are being royally screwed by matriculation criteria, wouldn';t you say?

3/02/2012 7:28 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon @ 3/02/2012 5:35 PM
"What the hell were thy thinking?"

My guess is that they could have been thinking, "Let's milk this historic opportunity cradelled in female favoritism for all its worth!"

The bigger question is where were tey schooled? Which ethical system, if any, was expected of them?

Hopefully, it was not the USNA's Honor Code. Otherwise, taxpayers are being royally screwed by matriculation criteria, wouldn';t you say?

3/02/2012 7:29 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon @ 3/02/2012 5:35 PM
"What the hell were thy thinking?"

My guess is that they could have been thinking, "Let's milk this historic opportunity cradelled in female favoritism for all its worth!"

The bigger question is where were tey schooled? Which ethical system, if any, was expected of them?

Hopefully, it was not the USNA's Honor Code. Otherwise, taxpayers are being royally screwed by matriculation criteria, wouldn';t you say?

3/02/2012 7:29 PM

 
Anonymous veemann said...

Your recollection of BFPL is no surprise to me. I recall that you would also quote passages of the water chem manual, including to various NRRO monitor watches.

3/02/2012 7:33 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Why, will the cooks save us by "Not Cooking"? PBJ is much better anyway."

No, you might end up with a little more 'cream' in your creamed corn. Or some extra 'slow churned butter' on your mashed potatoes.

Never piss off a cook. More important than BFPL.

3/02/2012 7:55 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hitting on the commodore's wife???

OMG!!!

You must be way too lazy to beat off!!!

3/02/2012 8:02 PM

 
Anonymous portnstarboard said...

IRT Item 1) Wow, a bit of a controversial subject posted for comment. Mark the date/time group. Careful now, don't want to post anything that the brass might take objection to. You want their approval of this blog.

3/02/2012 8:42 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I got a $100 says one of these chops is on the 742G.

3/02/2012 10:43 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well no shit. All three were reassigned to group 10. Meaning they're all in KB. There's only 4 here to start with, so its a 3 out of 4 chance that one is on WYO G.
Or is that some poorly veiled allusion to the CO's early relief being related to his new chop lying on her travel claim?

3/03/2012 6:32 AM

 
Anonymous NHSparky said...

Civvie plants have BFPL too, so that would be pretty high on the list.

But the biggest IDLH hazard is probably stealing from your shipmates. Tapping said buddy's wife/girlfriend also counts, even if she's a barracks rat.

Cold-water interlocks is something I only saw/heard of once, but the aftermath was pretty spectacular, at least from a Leavenworth-capable standpoint.

Finally, CHOPs getting nailed doing something underhanded? Yeah, love the spin Big Navy's already trying to put on this one. Can't wait to see how many of the nuke JO's write books about how they cheated on their BEQ exams--wait, already been done.

3/03/2012 6:45 AM

 
Anonymous NHSparky said...

"heard of" should have been "heard of being violated". Too early, too late a night last night.

Anyone who was in Pearl in the late 80's/early 90's knows of which I speak.

Then there was the time I was a nubly non-qual student at S5G, but that didn't count as CWI violation. Sort of.

3/03/2012 6:48 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

IMHO, I can almost guarantee it was about lodging per diem at SOBC, like sharing the rent at a summer cottage but each filing for the full amount.

3/03/2012 7:37 AM

 
Blogger Mike Mulligan said...

I get it now, the new submariners have in common they hate women, hate blacks and hate the government...

Maybe thats Idaho crap?

3/03/2012 11:26 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Despite the setback, feedback from the fleet regarding integration is very positive. ... Everything remains on track." - Submarine Force Atlantic Public Affairs Officer, Cmdr. Monica Rousselow

So assure everything "remains on track", which of the following adjustments will occur:
* The op scheds of the 3 effected boats will be delayed until new female chops attend ten-weeks of sub school.
* The op scheds of the 3 effected boats will be altered as necessary so there is no apparent delay.
* The op scheds of the 3 effected boats will not be delayed because an off-crew or squadron male chop will fill in until more women LTs attend ten-weeks of sub school.
* Combination of the above.
* None of the above.

Should be very interesting, and the crews will know what is going on although they won't be able to discuss it publicly.

Idaho fan

3/03/2012 12:14 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To clarify the speculation about where they came from, a little open source collection (http://www.columbusbase.com/docs/Newsletter/7_05_Jun_2011.pdf and https://navalregister.bol.navy.mil) reveals the following information about the source of these she-chops:
1 ROTC grad
5 OCS grads
1 OIS grad (a former NPS instructor, to boot)
1 STA-21 grad

3/03/2012 1:25 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So what's more important? OpScheds or our precious diversity?

3/03/2012 2:03 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

#3 Definately. Was in the crews mess when the Bremerha was created. Bremerton is pierside just ahead of the Omaha. As I recall, MM2 in the crews mess on the sound powered phones, "Line 1 parted, line 2 parted... The boat is underway!!!" CRUNCH, CRUNCH, CRUNCH.

3/03/2012 2:05 PM

 
Anonymous Steel City said...

One thing for a non-administrative sailor to submit a fraudulent travel claim. Another thing completely for a Supply Officer who attended 26 weeks of Supply Corps school of which at least 5 weeks are spent on disbursing which of course includes travel pay. AMFs...repeated three times!

3/03/2012 6:09 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

BFPL is good stuff, but i've hydro-ed above it (approved procedure), so its not all life and death immediately, normal or in-port ops, shame on you if you ever come close due to slacking off.

Commodore's wives usually dont associate with ye enlisted folk, but nice as they can be if you are in civilian clothes.

Let me tell you about the brass, most of them are a CYA bunch. and if you want to not speak the truth to please them go ahead.

Chops messing up on a travel claim, i'm sure it will get overlooked but thats how it goes. Being a minority, I've gotten a lot more slack and told people to not be so PC and hold me accountable like other people when i mess up. not sure these females would take accountability, and if they would, i doubt the PC navy would let them.

3/03/2012 7:32 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

hope the regular line female sub officers are of the same quality and integrity....Big Navy should have just said like everything else it will have challenges, instead they pitched these females as superstars that would face no problem. Big Navy got what it deserves, ignorance is not an excuse.

3/03/2012 7:35 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Actually, I'm not sure they ever pitched the new female officers as superstars above reproach. It's just half-wits who look for perfection that are convinced they did.

Quit jerkin' yourself off saying "I told you so." There's always some challenges when you change the status quo. Good leaders adapt. Whiny bitches...well, they bitch.

3/03/2012 8:57 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
hope the regular line female sub officers are of the same quality and integrity

I guess that's why we have a blog, we would not be talking about the women onboard submarines if they were doing fine. For you to make that statement, are you hoping they fail? The reason we stuck our hand out and asked women to join the submarine force is because our pool of male JO's with enough intelligence and motivation to move up to DH are shrinking. I am glad we have started this while I was in and I can be part of something special. It is unfortunate that we as a Navy will face adversity right off the bat because of three sailors who wanted to throw away personal integrity and professional careers over a few dollars. Read into this, I am proud Big Navy took a stand and made a statement. This happens a lot(travel claim fraud) and when it does there is usually only a slap on the wrist. Big Navy knows this is a lot of crow to eat and media set back. Good on them for saying personal integrity violations and fraud will not be tolerated. "Not in my Submarine Force"
Everyone in this blog should take a second and think we definitley did not need this in this day and time. We need our Sub Force as strong as it can be if we want the best of the best and the smartest candidates to defend our coast lines.
To the three sailors who committed fraud. You just missed the greatest opportunity of a lifetime to be part of something special.

3/04/2012 4:58 AM

 
Blogger Curt said...

Women Officers
on Subs ??

3/04/2012 7:32 AM

 
Blogger Curt said...

Darned... still don't have the Blogger html tags down...

3/04/2012 7:35 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The reason we stuck our hand out and asked women to join the submarine force is because our pool of male JO's with enough intelligence and motivation to move up to DH are shrinking."

This is simply not true. 28 Month department head tours with 4 month turnovers say "hi"...

When is the last time you have seen a status of forces brief? We are letting any officer leave the submarine force who wants to, right now. The DH manning crunch is imaginary.

Of course, that might change in the future when the economy gets better...

3/04/2012 7:45 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here's Alcohol de-glamorization for you, my Command's coin is a bottle opener!

3/02/2012 3:11 PM

------

Pasadena Right? SUBRON7 flipped a shit when we started those right after a string of ARI's in one month. If I remember correctly, it was OBNOB's last F-you before transferring to a boat out of Kings Bay

3/04/2012 8:28 AM

 
Blogger Curt said...

Two thoughts:

1. I KNOW: When I was in OPNAV, we went to get SubPay increased, the question was asked, 'Why should we do that, when you exclude half the population going in?' She had a point...

2. I THING: Ohio Replacement Program. Funding is an 'oh by the way,' and with women only on the SSGNs/SSGNs, that replacement platform budgeting is now more assured??

3/04/2012 9:00 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry the females messed things up for themselves and the other ones joining the force now have an unfair stigma associated with them. Big Navy was all pomp and circumstance about this integration, so its not an i told you so i dont think, but I dont go spending money I won on a bet before the actual event takes place.

New SSBN, and SSN funding can only be helped by the inclusion of facilities for females, like it or not. The CNO seems to be very sensitive to political issues and will likely do anything not to offen special interest groups, thats just the way it is. Although, even after repealing DADT i hear the trannies are mounting a lawsuit, hope they enjoy that one as a result of trying to save a few bucks on Tricare and BAH benefits.

3/04/2012 9:26 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To the three sailors who committed fraud. You just missed the greatest opportunity of a lifetime to be part of something special.

3/04/2012 4:58 AM

Lets start the stop watch now and see how long they collect a paycheck sitting at Group. Kings Bay has a pool of misfits and derelicts collecting paycheck after paycheck.

3/04/2012 9:46 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I can name one right now that has had more time writing his congressman over his loss of security clearance and loss of confidence than he has doing his job in the past year.

3/04/2012 9:48 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes! Now were getting to the dirt!

3/04/2012 9:55 AM

 
Anonymous Cobless notion said...

@3/03/2012 12:14 PM

Affects, not effects.....

3/04/2012 10:10 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon @ 4:58

"...three sailors who wanted to throw away personal integrity and professional careers over a few dollars. ...This happens a lot(travel claim fraud) and when it does there is usually only a slap on the wrist."

Well, for starters, they are not just "three sailors" - they are three officers. And, if their actual offense is what you suggest "happens a lot(travel claim fraud) ", that is not all that it would likely have been.

Someone who would not go along with the conspiracy to defraud taxpayers turned them in, and that lady stands heads and shoulders above those who committed the frauds and conspired with commissioned officers to keep them secret.

Since the chops appear to have elevated their personal notions of
secrecy above the United States government's classification system, isn't a very good thing they have been weeded off platforms embodying sensitive security issues?

3/04/2012 12:00 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

World affairs heighten emphasis on U.S. submarine security clearances, this may be especially true for at least one SSGN concept.

3/04/2012 1:28 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You all think Subs or Submarine Sqadrons or Groups are screwed up, Try working with the Navy Recruiting Commmand in Tennesse. They have to be the most incompetent organiation, right there with the Military Entrance Processing Station (MEPS).

At NRC, I am told that, "instructions are only suggestions!"

3/04/2012 2:09 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Does anyone know the names of the officers in question?

3/04/2012 2:37 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Since the chops appear to have elevated their personal notions of
secrecy above the United States government's classification system, isn't a very good thing they have been weeded off platforms embodying sensitive security issues?

3/04/2012 12:00 PM

Duh!

3/04/2012 2:39 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lets think about the poor bastards that now have to juggle their schedules and pick up the slack for those three officers who have been removed. One would be hard for a new/replacement CHOP, two crazy...but three on different commands. There is no body pool laying around for this changeout.

3/04/2012 2:42 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

None of these chop ladies had reported to a submarine command yet.

3/04/2012 3:10 PM

 
Anonymous 4-Stop said...

#1 This is just a classic example of how the He-Man Women Haters club is using every excuse to force out these Women. Everyone in the Navy has taken government issued supplies home or taken advantage of the system. And even the Rolex watches for CPO’s standing pilot and co-pilot, on VA class subs, got swept under the rug. This is nothing more than a witch hunt by a few good ol’ boys to get Women out of their canoe club.
#3 WTF?!?! What are you going to use the senior leadership drunks to police the junior drunks? The funniest conversation I have ever had in the Navy was with my PO3 NADSAP facilitator telling us how to flush drugs out of our system for the wiz-quiz.
#4 we had a maintenance concept flow chart that led to “radiation hardening” as the fault. Used to pull that one out of our ass when the XO would ask why did CCS go down?

3/04/2012 3:17 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"This is just a classic example of how the He-Man Women Haters club is using every excuse to force out these Women." - 4-Stop

Well, 4-Stop, note that these women were also commissioned officers (= supposed superior (as in to CPOs and below) role models.

It is obvious that some of the comments are from surface pukes, female no doubt, and their lax security and ethics appreciation is par for sailors assigned to targets).

Yep, that's you, 4-Stop.

3/04/2012 5:14 PM

 
Blogger Rubber Ducky said...

ncesph isouning67 comments and not one on being 100% correct on rig-for-dive. Not one on telling the truth in all matters operational. Lots of blowzy blather widely off topic, but of these two submarine fundamentals no mention. Jeesh.

3/04/2012 5:31 PM

 
Anonymous Painter said...

4-Stop, your stupidity ceases to amaze. The convolution alone will give anyone an instant headache, not to mention your rambling and incoherent notions.

Out of curiosity, is your name McBee, Somalis, or Wetzler?

3/04/2012 5:49 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

RD, how do you figure?

3/04/2012 6:20 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'd like to know how you figure that, too, Byron.

Is your daughter/grand in the Navy?

Max

3/04/2012 6:27 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Slightly O/T: Do Chops qualify pilot or co-pilot on the VA boats? It was bad enough with them on the dive, but it would scare the sh!t out of me if they were driving?

3/04/2012 6:38 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well our Chop was actually in the top 3 best DOOWs on the boat, but then we knew that was weird... we called him "Battle Chop" because it was so surreal.

3/04/2012 7:21 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"None of these ladies reported to a command yet" - glad you know how to plan personnel rotation, its not likely that there are three additional role models in wait somewhere in the pipeline, at least a 10 week delay where a female chop gets to go B/G or cross-deck to cover, or load more female JOs under the few supply females that made it. Thats how things will work. Good luck with your day dreaming. At least they weren't fish qualified and on the watchbill.

3/04/2012 8:15 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

He-man woman haters club? Not quite, I'm guessing 6 months or less before a female officer gets taken to mast for frat, trust me these sub guys will LOVE the women, much like the surface fleet integration. Should be expected, trap males/female together for 60+ days and let the fireworks fly.

3/04/2012 8:17 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

OpScheds or precious diversity? Its diversity currently, priority for the current leadership. I've seen minorities told they will be in certain billets for career enhancements and non-minorities(including females) told that billets were unavailable to them, gapped and waiting for a minority to fill...for some reason the navy did not consider "Asian" a good minority since they are already good performers, such a hypocritical and self serving system. Fortunately for me I qualify as a deserving minority, but I dont condone what big navy is doing by any means, creates lots of hostility and discredits the hard work of minorities genuinely trying to do a good job.

3/04/2012 8:24 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

They are just putting three JOs on the boats that lost a chop.

3/05/2012 6:04 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

glad you know how to plan personnel rotation, its not likely that there are three additional role models in wait somewhere in the pipeline, at least a 10 week delay where a female chop gets to go B/G or cross-deck to cover, or load more female JOs under the few supply females that made it. Thats how things will work. Good luck with your day dreaming. At least they weren't fish qualified and on the watchbill.

My comment was just pointing out that they weren't attached yet, as some of our buds here apparently can't read.

Plus, the watchbill is the least of their worries. Like the chop makes a such a HUGE difference.....

re: planning personnel rotation, some people are just going to have to suck it up. Like that would be the first time THAT ever happened on a submarine....someone getting a raw deal and sucking it up because someone else fucked up. Shit happens, get over it. These female o-gangers are people, and people fuck up. It's a fact of life. How many incompetent individuals have been able to get by in our community for one reason or another...whether race, gender, dick sucking, having a dad who is an admiral...the list goes on and on.

3/05/2012 8:10 AM

 
Blogger Curt said...

- Was this a Conspiracy?

- Did one or more try to Cover It Up?

3/05/2012 9:19 AM

 
Anonymous 4-Stop said...

@ ANON 5:14, Wow you hit the nail right on the head. I am a Female Skimmer. Please report to your closest village, they are missing their idiot.
@ Painter, Nope I’m not McBee, Somalis, or Wetzler but thanks for including me with those caliber of sailors, well all but McBee. How come you don’t use your full name “Face painter” when you post? Are you ashamed of your family matriarch’s name?

3/05/2012 10:43 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ouch.... burn

3/05/2012 12:11 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ouch.... burn

3/05/2012 12:11 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

4-stop, you know better. Women are not 'hated' on submarines, nor will they be. They'll be loved...and loved...and loved. That's part of the problem.

3/05/2012 12:39 PM

 
Blogger a_former_elt_2jv said...

Perhaps the most important rule of all:

1. Always knock before entering Nucleonics.

3/05/2012 12:46 PM

 
Anonymous Jay the Nuk said...

Joel,

Check out this story:

http://www.federalnewsradio.com/412/2773683/Mandatory-breathalyzer-tests-coming-to-Navy-Marine-Corps

Jay the Nuk

3/05/2012 3:34 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Point 1...yawn

Point 2....exterme yawn

Point 3.....more yawning

Point 4...yawn and go crash.

3/05/2012 3:41 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Point 1...yawn

Point 2....exterme yawn

Point 3.....more yawning

Point 4...yawn and go crash.

3/05/2012 3:42 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

re: planning personnel rotation, some people are just going to have to suck it up. Like that would be the first time THAT ever happened on a submarine....someone getting a raw deal and sucking it up because someone else fucked up. Shit happens, get over it.

Aw, did um get um's panties in a wad? These "ladies" were paraded before God and country as the salvation to submarine MANning woes. Of course that was all bullshit, but the fact remains, these WOMEN failed to complete that mission. Hell, they failed to even get to the boat. And as most of us knew would happen, some guys somewhere are gonna get their rotation's fucked up.

Told ya so. Neener, neener, neener. Now, go change your tampon.

3/05/2012 4:58 PM

 
Anonymous Bobby said...

Word on the street is..."one of the female sub officers currently at prototype suffers from Stress induced blindness." I can't make this shit up!

Gonna suck when she is on the scope @ PD on mission...
-insert punch line here...

3/05/2012 5:32 PM

 
Anonymous LT L said...

@Bobby

Most submariners suffer from "Stress Induced Blindness." Additional symptoms include harry palms and dead kittens.

-LT L

3/05/2012 6:05 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I thought that stressed induced blindness was limited to situations in which a submariner spent too much time with his patrol sock.

3/05/2012 6:11 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow. WOW. WOW!!

You want to talk change, listen to SECNAV's All Hands Call today on BATAAN:

http://www.pentagonchannel.mil/?pid=VjB8p7_SIUuX6QyffY6_ybIpf99i7_EN&player=GovDelivery

Major points:

1. Breathalyzer tests for all duty section members every morning (training and counseling, not punitive)

2. Smoking Cessation and no more discounts on tobacco at the NEX or MCEX.

3. No BCA waivers for PRT and enhanced fitness courses through MWR

4. More Sexual Assault training

5. 12 month deferrals for pregnancy and 3 year IRR stints for female AND male parents

I may have missed more. Got to give him credit for trying!

3/05/2012 6:37 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My son tells me his CO has instructed the wardroom to give grape sigs to all the women. Seating arrangements have changed during meals to have the women next to the CO. And the supply officer told the rest of the wardroom to start cleaning the head vs instructing the mess specialists to do so (per reg). Son can't wait to leave, and meanwhile I fear for his safety.

3/05/2012 7:14 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My son tells me his CO has instructed the wardroom to give grape sigs to all the women. Seating arrangements have changed during meals to have the women next to the CO. And the supply officer told the rest of the wardroom to start cleaning the head vs instructing the mess specialists to do so (per reg). He can't wait to leave, and I fear for his safety.

3/05/2012 7:15 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon @ 6:37 PM

"Got to give him credit for trying!"

Bully for you! His trying will result in nothing less than diminution of the world's premiere submarine force (12 month deferrals for pregnancy and More Sexual Assault training [wonder which gender will be assumed culprit in Mabus's "sexual assault training"?).

Superficially the program's intent will be unassailable. Submariners will recognize it for the subversive movement that is really is! At the end of the day, the U.S. submarine force will become weaker.

3/05/2012 7:16 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Spent tonight with my girlfriend cuddled up in a bean-bag chair while watching some oldies, munching on some fresh cookies after a fine fresh-from-the-garden salad...and not missing the current estrogen drama in the submarine force one little bit.

You've got it...I had it. God bless America.

3/05/2012 8:05 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's pretty obvious that Gay Ray's comments regarding sexual harassment are geared toward stifling calling a fag a fag, pole smoker, ass pirate, etc.

12 months OFF after pregnancy? 3 years off to care for a family member? Flex time work hours while in port? Lemme guess who gets these "good deals.

As far as the rest of his comments, just more big brother bullshit. Some poseur telling folks who've volunteered to go into harm's way how to conduct every minute aspect of their life.

As far as I'm concerned, while I benefited from my time in the Navy, no way will I recommend the new PC playground to my kids.

Oh, and Ray, FUCK YOU AND OBAMA!

3/05/2012 9:12 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Speaking of Ray the Skimmer...check out the talk page for his article on Wikipedia.

"Mabus in Prophecy

Evidently, the name "Mabus" is mentioned in Nostradamus' quattrains as the third and ultimate anti-christ. The first two were named Paunayloron(Napoleon) and Hister(Hitler). Many have suggested that Mabus could be interpreted as "Obama". However it would be easier to point to someone actually named Mabus. Its a big coincidence that Ray Mabus is a Cabinet member and a former ambassador to the Middle East. Ray Mabus has been mentioned as a possible anti-christ on a History Channel documentary on Nostradamus and the anti-christs mentioned in his quattrains. You can also find many articles and forum discussions on by Googling "Ray Mabus Anti Christ" or "Ray Mabus and Nostradamus." "


Funny. Then again, maybe not.

3/05/2012 9:49 PM

 
Anonymous Dardar the Submarian said...

So, in short;

Little to no retirement - especially for those just coming in.

Shore duty for the family "man".

No duty - 3 months - for the one that squirted out the family.

Breathalyzers for all

I guess the real question here is; What are the 20 or 30 single, straight men going to do with the 100% sea time for their 6 years of service? Boat hop I guess.


Oh, and don't ever, EVER hit the emergency O2 Generator shutdown switch. "If the O2 Generator doesn't kill you, I will" says the A-gang chief on every boat I was ever on.

3/06/2012 5:09 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon at 9:12 PM:

"It's pretty obvious that Gay Ray's comments regarding..."


You sound really smart.

3/06/2012 8:00 AM

 
Anonymous NHSparky said...

Smarter than the so-called "adults" who are supposedly in charge of this floating circle-jerk.

Then again, I'm subject to FFD at any time, not just when I walk into the plant every morning. I have no problem with telling the oncoming SRO to blow into Mr. Breathlyzer before doing maintenance or standing watch.

It's the rest of the silly bullshit that needs to go bye-bye.

3/06/2012 8:45 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Word on the street is..."one of the female sub officers currently at prototype suffers from Stress induced blindness." I can't make this shit up!

Gonna suck when she is on the scope @ PD on mission...
-insert punch line here..."

Last time I checked, Chop's don't do scope time. At least, not on th3e boats I was on.

3/06/2012 10:55 AM

 
Blogger Ret ANAV said...

Last time I checked, Chop's don't do scope time. At least, not on th3e boats I was on.

Since when? Chop's that aint color-blind (which is actually quite a few, believe it or not) are (or at least WERE) required to qualify CC.

3/06/2012 11:28 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Although based on highly unusual circumstances, USS Los Angeles had a Chop back in the day that regularly stood OOD watches. He even wore real dolphins that he had clearly earned. Then again, how many boats win the Supply E every year with a Chop that was a former nuclear-trained RC Division LPO on another boat and that had stood watches as Engineering Watch Supervisor?

3/06/2012 11:34 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Guys, if the female suffering from "stress induced blindness" is at prototype, like the poster claims, then she's not a suppo. So the "do chops get scope time" debate is irrelevant.

3/06/2012 1:02 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"4. More Sexual Assault training"

giggity.

3/06/2012 1:31 PM

 
Blogger chief torpedoman said...

...Last time I checked, Chop's don't do scope time. At least, not on th3e boats I was on...

Back in the day, SSBN 610G, we had a color blind chop who did indeed stand OOD submerged and did do scope time. Not sure if he did OOD surface or not.

3/06/2012 1:48 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Interestingly enough the WAPO story on the breathalizers has a link to "official navy myths" kinda funny that don't you think?

3/06/2012 4:21 PM

 
Blogger Vigilis said...

One of the funniest assignments ever witnessed by me, was of mustang chop LT to our boat with his former chief who had never gotten along with him.

Obviously, the squadron relished this humor, as well.

Yep, the LT had earned silver dolphins. The crew liked him much better than this particular chief.

In those days, the best way to get an assignment from the navy was to pretend it would be the last thing you would ever want. Later, in corporate life, I learned that things generally worked pretty much the same.

I eventually learned that human nature has been one of the most enduring constants since time immemorial, and we can bank on it.

3/06/2012 4:39 PM

 
Blogger SJV said...

@1134 Anon: Snicker at the "nuclear trained" RC LPO. Ever have a non-nuclear trained RC LPO? That's even more frightening that the RC LPO standing EWS! ; ) Better to keep 'em in the box. Never saw any funnier looks underway than when I was watching the RCLPO turn over EWS to the MMCS EDEA.

3/06/2012 5:38 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My chop was a monster on the scope, great a mental gym and kept the watch team engaged....some of them care about the sub force vice getting sent to the subforce. Also an amazing DOOW and loved by the crew. Honest and hard working.

3/06/2012 6:54 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Odd quals happen more than might be expected. An EM3 (he joined the Navy in his late 20s) on a boat in Pearl was qualified and stood watch Engineroom Upper Level and Feed Station, so the new ENG gave him an EWS qual card. The EM3 finished the qual card before he made EM2, but the ENG refused to qualify him until he made rate, thinking (probably correctly) that NRRO would go nuts if a third class petty officer was standing EWS/EDPO.

3/06/2012 8:04 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

One midwatch on a boat back in the day, the SRO (an ET) needed a head break, but the guy he relieved wouldn't get out of the rack. Unable to fight off the urge, he convinced the SRW to sit in Maneuvering while he hit the head. Upon his return, he noticed an NRRO monitor in Maneuvering with the SRW. Thinking quickly, he found the SRW's clipboard, shoved a rag in the back pocket of his dungarees, turned his ballcap backwards, and headed for the safety of the RC Div alley in Engineroom Upper Level. The NRRO monitor saw him and followed him there. The NRRO monitor took the opportunity to question the "SRW" about the various RC Div equipment there and was greatly surprised by the breadth and depth of his knowledge. A "no comment" monitor watch was the result.

The funniest part about this is that the SRO was a minority and used that to his advantage. He figured the NRRO monitor would assume that because he was a minority, he must be a Machinist's Mate and not an Electrician's Mate or Electronics Technician. The rag and ballcap were just added window dressing to enhance the effect. His actions saved a number of careers, starting with the CO, ENG, EDEA, RC LPO, both SROs, SRW, and who knows how many others on that boat.

3/06/2012 8:25 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

His actions saved a number of careers...

Except for the fact that he was the one who abandoned his watch station.

What a hero.

3/06/2012 8:52 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

At Anonymous 8:25

That guy is nothing to be celebrated. The careers he "saved" were the very ones he would have put in danger. This is not something to be presented as having done a good job. I really hope someone reading this doesn't think this was the right thing to do.

3/07/2012 6:47 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous @ 8:25 PM said "His actions saved a number of careers..."

One of the stupidest comments I have seen on this blog. Only careers it may have saved were his and the idiot SRW who sat the panel for him. If caught, CO/etc. would have been just fine, other than having to respond to a monitor watch, do some training, and basically mast/disqual (possibly de-nuke) both of those guys.

3/07/2012 7:04 AM

 
Anonymous NHSparky said...

That logic ranks right up there with the government bullshit of "saved or created" jobs.

3/07/2012 7:58 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

LOL, "abandoning his watch" so you would have rather he crapped in his pants or a TSP can? I am sure the plant was as stable as it ever was and the SRW new to push the button when the light comes on until the big hand reaches xxx#.

3/07/2012 8:10 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Knew" cus he be a mechanic

3/07/2012 8:18 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Or he could have had the stones to call the EDO and have him direct a watch relief.

Oh no, wouldn't want to be a buddy-fucker. Better abandon my watch station instead.

Idiot.

3/07/2012 8:24 AM

 
Blogger a_former_elt_2jv said...

In Re: EM3 (EWS)...

If I remember correctly, pretty much all the nukes made PO2 within about 6-9 months of being on-board. After my first WESTPAC, we had 3 PO3's in the ER, all of whom had showed up to the boat with about 6 weeks left on the deployment.

I'm not doubting the story, but if EM3 was smart enough to finish the EWS card, save for the ENG interview, then why hadn't he made EM2? And if you had a hard charger like that, why wouldn't they CAP the dude to EM2?

Oh, and on the USTAFISH, one couldn't get an EWS card as a PO2 until:

1. Qualified some forward watch station, not named contact coordinator
2. Reenlisted, or the boat really wanted you to reenlist.
3. Qualified a cross-rate ER watch somewhere
4. Taken the PO1 test at least once.

I'm sure these weren't written rules, just the obvious things that needed to happen before one could get into quals.

3/07/2012 8:30 AM

 
Anonymous NHSparky said...

I can answer this one--I don't know about your timeframe, but in mine (late 80's) the PO3-PO2 promotion rate for EM's and ET's was, to put it mildly, shitty, thanks to all the STAR babies.

I made ET2 just under a year after I got to the boat after PNAing the first time around after prototype. I remember that they rated 12 ET2 3353's fleet-wide, and that I made it by less than a point.

Can't tell you why they didn't CAP the guy, other than the fact I think I saw ONE cap TO PO2 in 7 1/2 years at sea.

ET1, OTOH, was a "can you sign your name?" exercise.

A lot of commands were reluctant to even let PO2's qualify EWS/EDPO, but hey, whatever. YMMV.

3/07/2012 9:07 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

very sad:
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2012/03/navy-crash-kills-pilot-who-blogged-neptunus-lex-030712w/

3/07/2012 11:52 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

R.I.P N.Lex

3/07/2012 12:02 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

During ORSE workup on the Bremerton following its years in the yards, I, a off watch QM2(SS) was ordered to stand OOD while the CO took all officers and chiefs in to the wardromm for a good old fashioned ass chewing over the dismal way the drills were progressing. While I had that honor(?) I shift RC pumps to RF, changed course and depth to avoid a P-3 playing with us and generall made everyones hair stand on end. Was it the right thing for the CO to do? You be the judge......l

3/07/2012 4:42 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As one who slept thru portions of numerous P&S midwatches as SRO, reading all of the near panicked comments about "abandoning" the watch brings to mind a quote, "BFD."

3/07/2012 6:03 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I can answer this one--I don't know about your timeframe, but in mine (late 80's) the PO3-PO2 promotion rate for EM's and ET's was, to put it mildly, shitty, thanks to all the STAR babies.

I made EM2 in 86, on the last test anyone made EM2 without re-enlisting right up until I got out in late '90. Making EM1 was simply pass the test. You were correct, all the STAR re-enlistees hosed everyone else. I know several who got out as EM3 because they refused to re-enlist for PO2.

3/07/2012 6:09 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As one who slept thru portions of numerous P&S midwatches as SRO, reading all of the near panicked comments about "abandoning" the watch brings to mind a quote, "BFD."

Don't mistake disgust for panic.

3/07/2012 6:51 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yep, there's sooooo much that can go horribly wrong while you're taking a leak during drift.

3/07/2012 7:14 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Speaking of BFDs: what if you -- and everything around you -- is merely just a hologram which is isomorphic to the information "inscribed" on the surface of the universe's two-dimensional boundary...?

Asleep on that SRO watch, "You" may very well exist only as a figment of the universe's imagination. For real.


Sleep well.

3/07/2012 7:44 PM

 
Blogger SJV said...

I heard a story about a guy who crapped in a bag while SRO, put it in a bag, stuffed in EOOW desk until end of watch. Forgot. Was lucky enough to stay in next underway. Folks in the box kept blaming each other for the smell until one fine field day when the EOOW cleaned out the desk and opened the bag. I can say I filled up three 12 oz soda cans one night while SRO. And came close to whiplash lots of times while "standing" watch. Always used to zone out, and then come back at about a quarter after freaking out that I'd missed logs. Then I'd look and see that I'd done them. Usually even legible. Crazy days.

3/07/2012 7:51 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The holographic principle might even explain why some people reminisce about shitbags. They're both one and the same.

No offense.

3/07/2012 8:28 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Can we get a few more sea stories on inept nuclear watchstanding. Maybe throw in a couple of more log taking integrity violations. Then top it off with a general lack of give a shit for the operation of the plant!Just confirms what I have always thought.

3/08/2012 3:29 AM

 
Anonymous jay the Nuk said...

Which is what, Anon at 3/08/2012 3:29 AM, that YOUR shit doesn't smell, that YOUR MISTER PERFECT!!!

3/08/2012 3:59 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

to anon at 3:23.

I was in from the mid 80's to the early 90's. I saw all kinds of things that woould give the uninformed layman reason to pause.

NEVER take this lax seeming attitude for lack of give a shit.

Do things get missed?? Yes..

Do rules get bent from time to time?? yes..

Did we operate the plant safely? Dang straight

If you expect people to be robots who stare blankly at a gauge and mark every slight movement and do our jobs in total silence then you are a fool. Or an ring knocker who believed the tripe that enlisted people are lazy and can not be trusted.

There is not a people who served on a boat, cone or nuke, that did not see or DO things that would be 'lax seeming'. It was like wacking off. You had those who admitted it, and those who lied about it.

3/08/2012 6:19 AM

 
Blogger Curt said...

The Dream... Always Begins The Same... -- Risky Business...

3/08/2012 6:41 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I would find it easier to buy into all the salty, Old Navy B.S. about safely operating the plant by leaving your watch station and blazing logs and cheating on tests if I hadn't read so many incident reports about exactly how badly you all effed up when you did eff up.

3/08/2012 7:56 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A case of the classic struggle between Idealists and Realists. Unfortunately as Graham Allison has pointed out long ago, rigid procedures lead to inability to adapt and can never prepare you to deal with all situations. No matter how hard NR tries, even with a thousand RPM changes they will always need to rely on the training and experience of watchstanders. So, if one needs to take a dump then have at it! Just clean up after yourself.

3/08/2012 8:21 AM

 
Anonymous Dardar the Submarian said...

It is easy to criticize the old farts for fucking up (stop saying effing, it's gay) when it is obvious the current brand of sailor is so squared away. In the current "instant information" world, I doubt anyone would have to blaze logs or - I am not a nuke, so I don't see how cheating on tests even applies - cheat on tests. Try figuring out a submarine when you have to go to the ship's library, get the microfiche out, and do your investigation. You sure as Hell would not have gotten much information out of the only digital computer onboard (AN/UYK-7 CP890). You may have to get the microfiche out for that one, because Google wasn't around then. 3 thumbs up for the new sailor, and his professionalism.

Now for the stupid coner question; What is BFPL. Google (notice the use of the new technology) just keeps referencing this blog.

3/08/2012 10:25 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

AN/UYK-7 CP890, ha, you must've been an FT or even better, a DS!
BFPL = Brittle Fracture Pressure Limit.
I'll let the smart guys take it from here....

3/08/2012 11:07 AM

 
Anonymous Dardar the Submarian said...

NAVET - the real computer geeks. Vacuum tubes forever!

3/08/2012 11:18 AM

 
Anonymous Dardar the Submarian said...

And thanks for the info

3/08/2012 11:19 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Back in the day, being an FT meant knowing how to massage gears and pulleys in the MK 101 Fire Control System. Much of the work was as mechanically oriented as it was electrically oriented. Now-a-days, not so much.

3/08/2012 11:33 AM

 
Anonymous NHSparky said...

I'll let the smart guys take it from here....

BFPL...stay in curve, hot rock gods happy. Not stay in curve, hot rock gods angry, shit go break, khakis cry, blueshirts get fucked big time, bad ju-jus for all tribes. Much training, many pretty but boring Power Point pictures.

There, happy now?

3/08/2012 12:14 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Brittle Fracture PREVENTION Limit

Google brittle fracture.

And anon at 8:21, a well-trained and proficient watch stander would not leave his watch station, and well-trained shipmates wouldn't make it necessary for him to do so. And the fuck ups I'm thinking of have more to do with lack of concern and responsibility than lack of knowledge.

3/08/2012 1:30 PM

 
Blogger SJV said...

I never read an incident report that began with a watchstander leaving their post or sleeping. Or where it even contributed. Not saying it's okay, but try to stick with what matters. And for any O'gangers out there- please remember that you slept through the majority of your inport EDO watches.

3/08/2012 4:14 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jay the Nuk, stick to what you do best. Practicing Sea Law. Do us all a favor and insert an enema!

3/08/2012 5:48 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

but try to stick with what matters...

And there's the problem. Feckless idiots that think it doesn't matter.

3/08/2012 6:23 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You guys are in the junior league. Once up forward onboard ustafish, many times over we would return the 8mm movies without rewindng them. Wheeew, I finally got that off of my chest. I can rest now in peace. What a burden to carry all of those years.

3/08/2012 6:40 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

During ORSE workup on the Bremerton following its years in the yards, I, a off watch QM2(SS) was ordered to stand OOD while the CO took all officers and chiefs in to the wardromm for a good old fashioned ass chewing over the dismal way the drills were progressing. While I had that honor(?) I shift RC pumps to RF, changed course and depth to avoid a P-3 playing with us and generall made everyones hair stand on end. Was it the right thing for the CO to do? You be the judge......l

What...the...you have got to be kidding.

3/08/2012 6:50 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Battle chops are hard to come by but they do exist...unfortunately like ligers, get them once on the sub and never again. My chop was an amazing dive, great at mental gym on the scope, and a great morale officer for the crew as a bonus....wow wish more of my JO's were like him sometimes.

3/08/2012 7:00 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If the reels you returned belonged to the Navy, they were in 16mm format. Although the 8mm format was widely used for home movies, it was more famous as the customary porn movie format. Big Navy didn't buy those for the boys in the fleet.

3/08/2012 7:33 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

FYI: Rickover and the PWR covered in today's issue of The Economist.

3/08/2012 8:27 PM

 
Blogger Mark said...

anonymous said...
return the 8mm movies without rewindng them. 3/08/2012 6:40 PM
anonymous said...
If the reels you returned belonged to the Navy, they were in 16mm format. Although the 8mm format was widely used for home movies, it was more famous as the customary porn movie format. Big Navy didn't buy those for the boys in the fleet. 3/08/2012 7:33 PM
Not sure where you got reel to reel from that, pretty sure all the movies onboard the boats I was on from 86’ to ’04 was 8mm cassettes. You’d have to ask a coner to be certain, I spent most of my time back aft, drilling, cleaning MG’s, training, and sleeping on watch.

Don’t know about the rest of you all, but I spent most of my time with my head underwater from all the BS required of us, trying to the best I could do. I worked long hours, in some pretty nasty conditions at times. I won’t say I never “fell asleep” on a midwatch, but I will say I did my best to stay alert at 4 am after during P & S watches, with 3 section inport duty, when spending my off watch time, training and doing maintenance so we could go back to sea. We spent a lot of time trying to back each other up.

As for the SRW/SRO story, that tale has been told a thousand times with different twists. It is a BS tale that has hints of truth to it. To see you all’s reactions to it saddens me, “We are from Squadron and we are here to help” means about as much as “Trust me, I’m an Electrician”. It sounds like a bunch a Squadron folks discussing what the see on the boats. Of course the never saw it done on their boat.

God Bless you guys still out there on the boats. You guys are in my prayers.

Math Teacher UpState NY
EMCS/SS Retired

3/08/2012 11:19 PM

 
Anonymous Dardar the Submarian said...

Wasn't :Rewind the Movie: on the "Hacker" qual card?

I had to learn that, how to put on a "skinny scope" and where the vital bus ran in the mess decks.

New part of the 4 topics - The only anti-drinking campaign I ever knew about was when the COB had to go get the A-gang chief out of the dumpster behind the bar they were in. They made the A-gang chief the DAPA to teach him a lesson.



Didn't work.

3/09/2012 4:50 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks for the pivot Darder,
Yeah whats up with the new alcohol policy? So we can't pound some down watching Monday Night Football anymore?

3/09/2012 6:13 AM

 
Anonymous Dardar the Submarian said...

I can almost see not throwing keggers for the crew with MWR funds, because the 3 guys who don't drink, for purpose, would get offended. I can also see the point where coming in hungover every morning could pose a problem, but a breathalyzer is entirely unnecessary.

It will make port calls pretty boring.

3/09/2012 6:42 AM

 
Blogger Curt said...

You only have to 'blow' if you're in the oncoming Duty Section, right???

3/09/2012 7:42 AM

 
Anonymous Dardar the Submarian said...

Depends on the CO

Coming to work is technically reporting for duty right.

Moreover - what difference does that make. Again, with the old fart stories of debauchery and disregard for human life and all - but when the on-coming duty section, the on-coming Duty Chief and Duty Officer are at the Brass Rail, things will be interesting the next day. Hopefully, things will be quiet, but they never are.

3/09/2012 8:00 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We've been doing the breathalyzer thing on my boat for the last couple years. Oncoming duty section musters, we roll a die, if your social ends in that number, you blow. It's pretty much a non-issue, and every now and then you find someone who acted foolishly the night before.

I'm for it. I've seen the guys who slip through the cracks and get caught the other way.. asleep with a sidearm. Fuck that.

3/09/2012 4:17 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The 758 CHOP in San Diego got fired last week...why no mention of that?

3/09/2012 5:17 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We only mention it if it's a woman. Isn't that what you're really trying to say?

Of course, with Chops it's hard to tell sometimes.

But if you have accurate information, you too can mention it. Oh yeah, you did, but only after holding out in an attempt to establish some point or the other.

Happy now?

3/09/2012 5:26 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good Lord, if we started a thread everytime a DH got fired, we'd have enough for a rack of clothes.

How's that for a metaphor?

3/09/2012 6:11 PM

 
Blogger Vigilis said...

In 1970, a study completed with the Naval Submarine Medical Research Laboratory in Groton, Connecticut, concluded that nuclear submariners tended to have a higher ratio of female offspring compared with the general U.S. population. Submariners who smoked were a noteworthyexception to the study's overall results, however.

3/09/2012 7:21 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Can we say, becoming effete?

3/09/2012 7:28 PM

 
Blogger SJV said...

Feckless Idiot here: Well DA, tell us how many incident reports started with sleeping watchstanders. I could be an idiot, but at least I back up my opinions. You're just a raving fool. Should'a been a 1st LT in 'nam. Would have lasted about a week.

3/10/2012 6:49 AM

 
Anonymous asif said...

Why, will the cooks save us by "Not Cooking"? PBJ is much better anyway.

3/10/2012 7:10 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You tools have obviously never seen what happens to YOUR food when you do piss off the cooks. I used to get a great laugh listening to a ring knocker EOOW brag about how he mistreated the cooks. I finally enlightened him one day about what "might" happen to the food of a total asshole, much like he would see looking in the mirror. I can still see the look on his face when he realized who and what I was talking about. He completely changed his attitude.

3/10/2012 12:03 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I want to respond to this fool:
Anonymous said...
"The reason we stuck our hand out and asked women to join the submarine force is because our pool of male JO's with enough intelligence and motivation to move up to DH are shrinking."

Do you normally spout off about information and facts you know nothing about. You have to be an enlisted nuke or mis guided coner. Our pool of JO's as you speak, are populating DH billets as expected. There are no such shortage as you speak. The entry of females into the submarine force has been purely political. Politics rule this submarine force. And the quips and cracks about ring-knockers, you should be so fortunate that the ring-knockers are taking care of your immature little enlisted nukes and fwd pukes. As you noticed most of the stories depicted here do not have an officer present. If so it would never have made the sea story headlines or your personal triumphs. Sad isn't, this is what you cherish from your careers.

3/10/2012 12:47 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

And the quips and cracks about ring-knockers, you should be so fortunate that the ring-knockers are taking care of your immature little enlisted nukes and fwd pukes.

You do know that "ring-knocker" is a derogative term for an Academy grad and not just any officer, right? We had another term for it: Ignorant Fucking Naval Academy Graduate, or IFNAG. In my experience, there were good IFNAGs and bad IFNAGs just like with the NROTCs (pronounced "neurotics") and NUPOCs (pronounced "money grubbers").

3/10/2012 1:59 PM

 
Anonymous 3383 said...

Anon 3/10/2012 1247:

3/10
Obvious troll is obvious.

3/10/2012 2:03 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There's like a dozen different versions of the SRO/SRW swap story. Funny every time. (never heard it with the black guy twist though)

3/10/2012 6:26 PM

 
Blogger Bearpaw said...

Anon 3/10/12 at 1247

Lighten up Francis!

3/10/2012 7:22 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

In reply to ANON:
You do know that "ring-knocker" is a derogative term for an Academy grad and not just any officer, right? We had another term for it: Ignorant Fucking Naval Academy Graduate, or IFNAG. In my experience, there were good IFNAGs and bad IFNAGs just like with the NROTCs (pronounced "neurotics") and NUPOCs (pronounced "money grubbers").

3/10/2012 1:59 PM

Thank you for your highly intelligent reply and well-thought out comments. Most of us do not set around and bash other members of the submarine force. You obviously were not an officer and probably were told you were not even LDO material. I am not a ring knocker, but always cringed when I heard the term. Its people like you who have placed monikers on everyone but yourself. Take a second to reflect, I am sure you have passed on some knowledge to your shipmates other than animosity. I, as I am sure others here appreciate your candid feedback.

3/11/2012 8:12 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

3/10/2012 1:59 PM

"In my experience..."

Give us more it sounds like you are highly qualified to talk about officers.

3/11/2012 8:14 AM

 
Blogger Curt said...

Note to Self:
Reset Trip Point to 150 Posts.

(ei.e., Only read the first 150 posts, because after that, it goes into the ditch.)

3/11/2012 9:28 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

3/10 12:47, do you REALLY think you did anything as a Div O other than qualify? Newsflash: If you think you added any value to how "your" division performed, you're more than a bit naive. BTW, not all ringknockers were bad, just the ones with attitudes like yours. That's what it was especially heart warming knocking some prick like that back to reality.

3/11/2012 2:17 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
3/10 12:47, do you REALLY think you did anything as a Div O other than qualify? Newsflash: If you think you added any value to how "your" division performed, you're more than a bit naive. BTW, not all ringknockers were bad, just the ones with attitudes like yours. That's what it was especially heart warming knocking some prick like that back to reality.

3/11/2012 2:17 PM

Wow, I see it all clear now that you have added your two cents. All this time I thought everyone pulled equal weight in the submarine force. I hope your still in, because we need you to keep us in the straight and narrow. The Navy will shut down with someone like you departing.Thank you for the reality check, you are definitley a gem!

3/11/2012 6:46 PM

 
Anonymous Mark/MM1(SS) said...

I hereby dub thee (and we all know of whom I speak), Lord Zero. You're (make a note of that contraction) clearly the same loser who tried to call me out in a previous thread. Please keep your (note the lack of a contraction) posts coming on future threads, your shit is hilarious. By the way, how long, exactly, have you been attempting to communicate in the English language (orally and in writing, if you please)? I confess, I initially took your relative illiteracy to mean that you had to be some sort of ignorant coner (no offense intended to ignorant coners) - but your attitude unmistakably marks you as the most pathetic sort of zero. Again, Lord Zero - please continue to enlighten us!

3/12/2012 7:47 PM

 
Anonymous Jambalaya said...

And for any O'gangers out there- please remember that you slept through the majority of your inport EDO watches.

You may be confusing EDO with whatever you stood. Or maybe Ustafish was the exception. I know standing EDO I would occasionally grab an hour after dinner, followed by paperwork (WAF/tagout binder reviews, divisional binder reviews, etc...) until the midnight log reviews followed by midnight log entries, followed by about 4 hours of sleep commencing around 0100 and completing around 0500 for breakfast and the 0600 log reviews/turnover paperwork prep. Generally, the most sleep I saw on a duty day was about 5 hours. Other than that it was working on either approving tagouts, binder reviews, maintenance briefs, studying for forward quals (before the fish) or command quals (after the fish) or just doing miscellaneous paperwork. Occasionally burning a flick or killing terrorists, but that was saved for weekend and holiday duty.

Could I have gotten away with more sleep? Sure, but that generally leads to screwing the oncoming guy. Just because you were/are a lazy POS (and/or had some lazy POS JOs) doesn't mean everyone is.

3/13/2012 1:05 AM

 
Anonymous NHSparky said...

Generally, the most sleep I saw on a duty day was about 5 hours.

Cry me a friggin river. What did you stand, 6-section? Try being P/S Duty RO while standing P/S SRO, cleaning, maintenance, material history, supporting shipyard, etc., due to lack of qualified bodies and the ENG/CO are "too busy" to give interviews.

Most duty days were a 24-hour affair, no such animal as day after because 1--no aforementioned qualified bodies (even provisional) and 2--in the yard, so getting out before 2000 was a treat. 0600 next morning, start the cycle over for another 36-40 hour day.

That was my last six months on my first boat.

And the khakis were bitching because the CO was going to make them go to 5-section to support shipyard work.

Bitch, please.

3/13/2012 5:25 AM

 
Blogger Bearpaw said...

A-freaking-men NHSparky.

3/13/2012 8:19 PM

 
Blogger Srvd_SSN_CO said...

'the comments below are not necessarily aligned w/Navy policy.'

It is dismaying to see so many supposed submariners think their leadership has no spine. The top brass (SecNav/CNO) said "You will place women on submarines." The SubForce said, "Aye sir." They then came up with a plan, JO line officers plus a second tour chop. That some of these turned out to have some issues w/travel claims is yet to be actually upheld, but I digress.

Women were not put on subs "for manning purposes," that was just a side benefit.

One idiot here says "all the women sit next to the CO at meals." Clearly, someone who believes utter nonsense and does not know a submariner. I have not seen those ships, but I KNOW how those women are treated...like JOs. Don't be a sexist ass.

Same goes for "ordered to grape them off." Really? How would you enforce that? Once again, clearly the idiot recounting this simply has no knowledge of how we do business.

The fact that there are few minorities (and women) on subs is NOT the fault of those serving on subs. Knowledge and performance are the arbiters of success in subs: it cannot be any other way. Anyone who believes that more than 2% of the force operates otherwise is simply a member of the bottom 2% who feels they are discriminated against because their 'mainstreamness' is not rewarded.

I say again: Knowledge and Performance over who you are or what you know.

@RD, I didn't understand a word you said.

3/14/2012 5:31 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ah, me...where to begin.

I know...let's talk about a time some 25 years or so ago when "the top brass (SecNav/CNO) said" to reduce submarine platform billets by 5% (or similar ridiculous number) because Congress was telling the Navy to do such a thing to reduce costs, and Big Navy figured they'd just lay that across all platforms.

You don't just do something because big fuckin' Navy says so. When they say something that is flat out stupid...and they do sometimes...you bark back, educate them, and point out their own stupidity in such a fashion that they can take it back to their coffee & donuts thinking spot in the bowels of the Pentagon and come up with a better idea.

Sheesh. Women with men in a metal tube *for months at a time*? Fucking brilliant.

3/14/2012 6:45 AM

 
Blogger Bubblehead1283 said...

3 Simple rules that my CO said to us before leaving the bridge upon securing the maneuvering watch...

1. Don’t hit a buoy
2. Don’t hit another boat
3. Don’t run aground.

Those were his only requirements when driving on the surface.

3/14/2012 10:05 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jambalya-

Dude, good on you for trying to set up the next guy for success, but you were clearly taking too long. I consistently got more sleep than that on my EDO days - during a refueling overhaul - and still got all that stuff done.

Also, I *totally believe* that you were working on command quals as a JO.

3/14/2012 6:19 PM

 
Anonymous post_command(SSN)_commander said...

@ Served SSN CO

"It is dismaying to see so many supposed submariners think their leadership has no spine. The top brass (SecNav/CNO) said "You will place women on submarines." The SubForce said, "Aye sir.""

Your comment seems to imply that the Sub Force leadership didn't agree with the top brass. If that is the case, then they are spineless. If they agreed with the top brass, then they are executing their plan and they need to be held accountable if it fails. However, we all no how this story ends...integration of women into submarines will be a resounding success two years from now no matter what actually happens.

In general though, there is no doubt in my mind that 90%+ of the Sub Force flag officers are a bunch of spinless sycophants willing to do ANYTHING to get the next star. Too often they say "Aye sir" to bad plans and then cover their ass at the expense of the men (and now women) serving on the boats. There is no accountability at the flag level in the submarine force.

3/15/2012 10:10 AM

 
Anonymous post_command(SSN)_commaner said...

oops...

That should be: "we all KNOW how this story ends"

3/15/2012 10:14 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It takes a lot of spine to just bend over and take it, just ask served ssn CO.

Sounds like a future flag officer in the making, he will stand up for his guys by throwing them under the bus. BAU

3/15/2012 8:44 PM

 
Blogger Srvd_SSN_CO said...

@anon 8:44

When SecNav says 'put women on subs' your choices are resign or do it. On what basis do you resign? "We, the men of the sub force, refuse." Well, for many years they tried that.

What is really, really sad, is that the EXACT SAME arguments were made by the surface force when they were told to include women. Considering what the standard view of target drivers is in the sub force, I find it amusing so many resort to the same arguments...almost forty years later.

Amusing...and sad...

If you disagree so vehemently, vote with your feet. Since the decision has been made, toe the line or stow it. And when you decide to quit because 'women don't belong here,' call your mom or sister and tell them why they don't have what it takes. And don't call me when they slap you.

3/16/2012 3:54 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Time has, for the most part, proven the dissenters right on women in the surface fleet. I agree they can do the job, but overall it has made the job of managing readiness more difficult.
It's increased the number of masts. Pregnancy makes managing manning more difficult. Women don't serve in anywhere near equal numbers, so a lot of concessions are made to maintain a minority of the crew. Women have poor retention, so accession goals must rise to ensure the body pool is large enough to fill more senior ranks. Navy diversity goals encourage special treatment of women, breeding resentment in the other 85% of the navy.

These are facts backed up by what has happened in the surface navy. The majority of people arguing against the policy change are not arguing that women can't carry a fire hose or stand EEOW. Your insistence that that is the main argument is misleading.

3/16/2012 6:22 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Srvd_SSN_CO isn't interested in facts, just in expousing his opinions. And because he was a CO, he's ordering you to buy in, hook, line, and sinker. Or else.

3/16/2012 8:18 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Srvd_SSN_CO isn't even expousing his own opinions...just doing a "repeat-back" for anything the Democrat party says or does. That's just utterly brainless.

As for Dirty Dave's "benchmark" behavior, expect much more of the same...just as the surface Navy has -- for years -- and as 'Srvd' conveniently keeps forgetting.

3/16/2012 9:56 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

and as 'Srvd' conveniently keeps forgetting

That's because srvd is an asshat yes man. Had one of those jackasses as one of my COs. He once told me, "Petty Officer . . ., either you're going to be the death of me, or I'm going to kill you first." Why? Because I refused to keep my mouth shut and called bullshit when the command made asinine decisions. Oh, I still had to "toe the line," but I didn't "stow it."

3/16/2012 7:43 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"... called bullshit when the command made asinine decisions."

Get specific or GTFO.

3/17/2012 9:05 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Heard the one whose father is a retired Submarine CO is getting off and the other 2 are facing the BOIs. Did someone say politics? And maybe someone should ask why the female chop (not one of the 3 under investigation) who finished her Chop Dolphin qual card early had her time waiver disapproved and now SUBFOR is changing the Chop Dolphin qual card to reflect the Group Chop as the final approving authority vice the Chop's CO. Taking away CO's rights one signature at a time.

3/25/2012 3:54 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Probably my funniest BFPL moment came during a pre Reactor Safeguards Examination with CSG-2. I had to draw the curves. My interview buddy was given a point that clearly violated BFPL and what would he do. His answer was "We should be good, since we are a brand new core...."

3/26/2012 7:34 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Group CHOP? Seriously? WTF does GROUP CHOP know about submarining?

Hey, I have been off of a submarine for almost five years, and I will readily admit that I have no business qualifying people for OOD. Group CHOP probably last stood Dive.... 10 years ago, maybe on a different class of ship?

3/26/2012 8:50 PM

 
Anonymous LAMPS MK 1 said...

Those female officers deserved to be punished, they didn't uphold the Navy Core Values and got caught. I don't think there was a witch hurt to get women off the subs. Where is the trust in leadership? Everything is a conspiracy theory with you bubbleheads.... No wonder your just a bunch of easy targets!

4/13/2012 6:10 PM

 
Blogger aloalo said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

5/09/2012 3:43 AM

 

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