Keeping the blogosphere posted on the goings on of the world of submarines since late 2004... and mocking and belittling general foolishness wherever it may be found. Idaho's first and foremost submarine blog. (If you don't like something on this blog, please E-mail me; don't call me at home.)

Wednesday, May 30, 2012

Nuclear Navy Milestone (And A Rant)

Interesting milestone reached: the New York prototype site is honoring their 50,000th graduate; ADM Donald attended the graduation ceremony for 246 graduates. The Kesselring site claims that they have trained over half of all Navy nukes.

[Off-topic rant: What are the odds that the 50,000th graduate just *happens* to be a woman? If it just turned out that way, fine, but if they just chose one of the 246 graduates to be the ceremonial 50,000th graduate and were directed to chose a woman, or if they arranged the qual board schedule such that a woman would be the "correct" graduate, that's bullshit. There are plenty of guy Sailors who I'm sure have parents who would like to see them featured in a news video, too. And why does it seem that about 30% of the various Fleet Sailor of the Year selectees are women when females are only about 16% of the Navy overall? And why does the SecNav feel the need to pull non-qualified women off their boats for a White House Memorial Day photo op with the President and First Lady and fly them in from Kings Bay and Bangor when there were plenty of qualified Submariners just a few miles away in Norfolk who probably would have loved to see the White House? How much money did that publicity stunt cost? And did any boats have to do a PERSTRANS to get their female Sailors off the boat? How does missing at-sea (or even in-port) time help them complete their Submarine Qual Card? Is there a new "Visit the White House and meet the President" required signature they've added since I got out? /rant]

What are your favorite prototype stories? I always enjoyed the "Midnight EOOWs" in the Idaho bunkrooms -- the guys who screamed out orders in their sleep when at the height of preparations for their Final Evaluated Watch. I also remember the nosebleed I got riding home on the bus one night that, exacerbated by the elevation and lack of humidity during the Idaho winters, absolutely refused to stop until my old t-shirt in my bag was sopping wet with blood and I worried I was going to bleed out there on the bus, miles from civilization. Also, meeting my wife, who was going to school at Idaho State and met the only Sailors in our class who were smart enough to live in Pocatello (fewer Sailors and more college students) instead of Idaho Falls (many Sailors and no college students).


Anonymous Daniel Boone said...

Re: Photo Op Rant
Right or wrong, all occupants of the White House, probably starting with Lincoln, have used the military to stage photo-ops for political purposes.
Both Roosevelts, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, and more recently Bush, (think aircraft carrier) and Obama have all done it and whoever wins in November will do it also. It is what it is...

5/30/2012 10:08 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'd be interested to find out if the cost of the Photo Op trip for these Sailors was more than the amount of money the two who committed travel claim fraud got...

hint: I bet it is.

5/30/2012 10:29 AM

Blogger Bubblehead said...

I don't have a problem with that. I have a problem that they flew specific ones in from across the country when some perfectly acceptable ones were much, much closer. (I'm actually guessing it was the SECNAV office, who's in charge of ship naming and sponsor selection, who came up with the "fly in the female submariners" idea, and not the White House, but have no proof.) Hopefully, the women used for the photo op were uncomfortable with being singled out like that; if they weren't, they probably don't have what it takes to be Submariners anyway.

5/30/2012 10:29 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Prototype was a ball-busting experience for me. Nuke school was a pain in the ass, but it was nothing like Prototype. Two weeks into Prototype as the full impact of just exactly what they expected of me dawned on me....and I thought that perhaps I might have made a "slight" error in judgement on my Naval career!! Holy Fuck Batman - they expect me to actually KNOW all of this shit??!!

My first solo watch was a pre-cursor of things to come on the boat....the powers that be decided I was safe enough to saddle with the weakest link RO student on the site. MF almost got the two of us failed as he blithely ignored temp out of the green band and I had to order him to put temperature back where it was supposed to be (the idiot RO student's sea daddy was just shaking his head at the stupidity of his student - which let me know I was correct).

Prototype sucked. You were held to what seemed like an impossible standard....only to find out later on that this practice was just beginning.

5/30/2012 11:04 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

The navy has slowly made the transition to a Politically Correct institution, that are run by hysterical pussies. Expect them to do the "political" thing....They drank the kool aid long ago..

5/30/2012 11:05 AM

Anonymous So obvious said...

Was it done strictly according to her class rank? Jenna Swindt's in a class of 246. If they laid out all the graduates from honorman #1 through tail end Charlie #246 and student with class rank #81 happened to be the magic 50,000.

Let say she graduated #81 in the class. Then in that case Jenna Swindt's is the 50,000th graduate.

Any other criteria than that, and you can be sure it was a complete crock to make sure they picked a girl.

5/30/2012 11:59 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

For just a second there, I thought I had clicked into the Vaginus blog by mistake.

5/30/2012 12:03 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon at 11:59: Wouldn't it be by date qualified, and not class rank? Yes, I think it would.

5/30/2012 12:04 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

By that logic, it would have been a relatively simple matter to control the qual dates to achieve the "proper" sex.

5/30/2012 12:19 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

In its day, the S1C prototype was located in Windsor Locks, CT, next to a coal degassification plant. At the time, it was rumored among the instructors and students to be the only such plant in the country that had not experienced an explosion. Both S1C and the plant are now long gone.

5/30/2012 12:23 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

When did S1C disappear? I know I am older than dirt!

5/30/2012 12:40 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

In 1979, an officer student at S1C, already on mandatory extra hours, decided he no longer wanted to get qualified. I believe that he refused to comply with a direct order from the CO to complete his quals. The word passed among the instructors and other students indicated that the CO and officer student had a brief, high-volume telephone discussion with Admiral Rickover. The officer student apparently banked on the fact that Navy was short on cash at the time and couldn't afford to screw him too badly. However, the Navy always has enough cash to screw one guy real badly if a four-star gets the urge.

5/30/2012 12:44 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

female officers or not, an unqualified JO missing underway time doesn't make friends in the wardroom. one less scope operator, one less zone inspection. hell, one less body to fill a seat during training. better than pulling a body out of the qualified EOOW / OOD rotation though.

as for the 50,000th thing... definitely arranged for the headline in my opinion. what pisses me off is all the bad headlines about females onboard that will / are being swept under the rug.

5/30/2012 1:00 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh, like the bad headlines about the males in the history of the submarine service haven't been "swept under the rug"?

Apparently you never served on a submarine.

5/30/2012 1:11 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

No, I'm still serving. If you were, maybe you'd understand the difference.

5/30/2012 1:27 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

what pisses me off is all the bad headlines about females onboard that will / are being swept under the rug.

The way they swept that travel claim fraud under the rug just lit my ass in fire.

Oh, wait....

5/30/2012 1:28 PM

Anonymous 3383 said...

If I knew then etc., I would go Pocatello. But I did juuuust fine in Idaho Falls.

A1W wasn't up for several weeks, putting a lot of my class behind for prac facs. Once up, it was like the clog of climbers on Everest. Someone decided everyone had to be qualified by the original date, so staff held boards all night long. I was the very last one, got the board on their way out (they thought they were done), and probably passed on the first question (SG goes dry, what happens?). The mechanic was kidding (I was an ET) but it was something I actually knew, so went ahead.

I guess those couple of naps in the bunkroom didn't hurt too much.

5/30/2012 1:38 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Lit your ass [on] fire"? Perhaps you were doing the infamous "Dance of the Flaming Asshole"?

5/30/2012 1:40 PM

Blogger ronaldsteed said...

Joel, these young women were mustered for duty at the White House so that the nation could celebrate a milestone achieved and a barrier removed... and that IS something to celebrate. All of them are fully capable of serving with distinction on our submarines. Their presence at the White House takes nothing away from the men who also serve with distinction; indeed, the event reminded the nation just how difficult the profession is. I was proud to see the Submarine Force so well represented, and I look forward to hearing more stories about the the teams they will serve....

5/30/2012 1:44 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

The barrier removed was the barrier of women serving on which the 50K graduate of one of the Prototypes has nothing to do with this.

Hopefully those of us that thought that the "barrier" was there for a good reason will never have to say "I told you so".

On a separate question - if this prototype has graduated 50K, what is the total number of Nuclear Prototype graduates??

5/30/2012 2:05 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

The travel claim fraud was a bunch of chops, not nukes. They count about as much as male chops do. If you're lucky they'll stand dive.

5/30/2012 2:22 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I love that the D1G ball was the backdrop for the interview. Does anyone remember "Mary's room"?

5/30/2012 4:28 PM

Blogger Bubblehead said...

Ron - As I've hopefully made clear in the past, I don't have a problem with women on submarines. I do have a problem with treating them differently -- either better or worse than -- male Submariners more than is biologically necessary. And singling out non-quals in preference to qualified Submariners for a Good Deal boondoggle is an example of something I don't think promotes unity in the Force.

5/30/2012 5:02 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Looking forward to reading about the first baby being conceived in the vicinity of an operating reactor. The zoomies play havoc with rapidly dividing cells.

5/30/2012 6:08 PM

Anonymous Daniel Boone said...

BH: Inviting a group of young male submariners, however deserving, to the White House for a promotional event designed to spotlight newly created opportunities for women to serve on submarines is probably not the message the administration was trying to send.

5/30/2012 6:21 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

How about this photo-op? The uniform Regs have nothing on this one.

5/30/2012 6:38 PM

Anonymous K said...

"And why does it seem that about 30% of the various Fleet Sailor of the Year selectees are women when females are only about 16% of the Navy overall?"

You know, Joel, I'll buy this one. The women I've worked with the the military are either among the best of the peers, or among the worst. There is for some reason, comparatively few 'average' woman.

Possible reasons? Being a woman in what is still a macho culture has got to take more than a little self motivation. And because you're inevitably going to stick out as as a woman, it's almost impossible to be just 'some dude'. Like half the dudes on any given Eustafish that you won't remember until reminded of them. And sometimes not even then.

So rather than a Bell Curve, you have a bimodal distribution (like the fission product curve - irony! or not!) Because the ones that work hard work really hard, you have a higher percentage of women among the top performers - but also the ones that skate really skate, you also have a higher percentage of them among your problem children dirtbags.

5/30/2012 6:53 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

The selection of the graduate was absolutely contrived. In all this ridiculous fanfare we are doing a great disservice to these future submariners. How quickly we forget the lessons of the aviation community and the saga of Kara Huntgren. She was a crappy pilot but her squadron commander pushed her through even though many others knew she and others in her squadron weren't ready for carrier flight ops.

5/30/2012 7:28 PM

Blogger Vigilis said...

The tenor of rebuttals to BH's hopeful assumption about [not] "treating them differently" is been both loud and clear.

No one is fooling us admiral (you anonymous commenter). Either grow a set or identify yourself with your politically profitable opinion!

5/30/2012 7:30 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hmmmmm a bimodal distribution. Interesting, as back in the early 90's at prototype we had an interesting discussion about the comp exam scores.....seems that curve was a bimodal distribution as well, with one of the peaks corresponding to, well, the "average nuke" and the other one right around 2.50. Apparently a pretty standard phenomenon when there is any kind of a "gate" on success, there are always people who don't care enough to do more than skate through, and apparently enough instructors around to help them achieve that goal.

5/30/2012 7:30 PM

Blogger Bubblehead said...

@Daniel Boone - I was not aware it was a promotional event to raise awareness of Women on Submarines. I thought it was the announcement that the First Lady had been chosen to sponsor a submarine. However, based on the White House press release, you're probably right.

5/30/2012 8:01 PM

Blogger submandave said...

Ron, if they wanted to honor a "barrier removed" they should have invited ADM Mullen and all the other senior officers who made it happen, not the female JOs who just happened to be at the right place at the right time. This isn't the 1940s and they aren't the Tuskegee Airmen.

WRT prototype, I qualled on the world's oldest living reactor at the time, S1W. I felt my FEW went well until I got the results - FAIL. When I went to the Shift Sup, Ron Coleson, he told me "Don't worry about it. That NRO guy is a d**k and automatically fails the first person to do an FEW in each class, just to show everyone else that it can happen." Then, the day before my final board I got one of the worst haircuts ever in my life. The first question the prototype CO asked was "What the f**k happened to your hair?"

5/30/2012 8:51 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nuke school sucked for me: Lots of "suggested 20." But prototype was sweet. Got to MARF in early '86 and it was broke dick. Got assigned to E-div, along with a handful of other guys, for about 12 weeks while the other unlucky schmucks got reassigned to D1G and S8G. We were put on the staff schedule as gophers, but I recall doing only one actual day of work. Lots of coking and joking on eight hour days, playing basketball with the staff, etc. Qualifying was a breeze after that 12 weeks.

5/30/2012 9:16 PM

Anonymous mark/MM1(ss) said...

Best prototype memory was on a July weekend in outhull spent in Jackson Hole. A guided whitewater rafting trip on Snake River. Eight of us squids, at close to lifetime fitness peak, paddling a raft with power and coordination made it easy for the guide controlling steering to take some damned aggressive lines through the rapids, making for a hell of a good time.

5/30/2012 9:17 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Would it surprise anyone to hear that, due to a limited number of spots, men are being put on hold at prototype to push women to the fleet faster?

5/30/2012 10:57 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

RE: Looking forward to reading about the first baby being conceived in the vicinity of an operating reactor. The zoomies play havoc with rapidly dividing cells.

1. I'm pretty sure that the average commercial pilot or flight attendant is getting a higher dose than nucs. Even including that higher rate when if working in the RC.

2. Skimmers have been there and done that for how long now and apparently no problems.

3. I would say it is a pretty good bet that you are neither a nuc or a bubblehead.

Old chief from the dark ages

5/31/2012 12:10 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

We now return to the topic of the day.

My favorite part of NPTU was the brief period of time between it and reporting to my first boat.

Hallelujah!!! That crap is over...then I found out it was only starting!

The boat was near the end of a shipyard upkeep. Started in three section duty, then P&S and then PP&S (24 on/12 off).

NPTU started to look pretty good at that point!

Old chief from the dark ages

5/31/2012 12:24 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"1. I'm pretty sure that the average commercial pilot or flight attendant is getting a higher dose than nucs. Even including that higher rate when if working in the RC.

2. Skimmers have been there and done that for how long now and apparently no problems."

The problem with these type of arguments is that they tend to be fact-based.

But if a trial lawyer can convince a jury that a woman's child was born with (fill in the blank) because of its exposure to ionizing radiation, the facts won't really matter. It'll still cost the Navy a lot of money.

5/31/2012 8:14 AM

Anonymous TRF said...

It looks like at least two of them already have their fish. Or are they transfers from the SWO community? The photo isn't clear enough for me to tell.

5/31/2012 9:41 AM

Blogger wtfdnucsailor said...

I had the honor of qualifying at A1W, or as we called it, "the world's largest tinker toy". I was the third member of my class to have a final board and the second to fail that board. I then went through two weeks of cramming and the famous "sixty mile oral" when you traveled to the site with the plant engineer who quizzed you the entire trip. He then asked you the same questions on your reboard. Since you had time to check your answers, at least you were able to get those questions correct. My best memories of prototype were the skiing at Kelly Canyon and getting caught in a May snowstorm at Yellowstone during a five day off trip.

5/31/2012 9:58 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

RE: But if a trial lawyer can convince a jury that a woman's child was born with (fill in the blank)...

Sigh, sad but true )-:

RE: ...getting caught in a May snowstorm at Yellowstone during a five day off trip.

Damn, happened to me also - and in May. Did you happen to in Idaho in 71?

Old chief from the dark ages

5/31/2012 11:26 AM

Anonymous 3383 said...

I didn't mention the non-work Idaho memories, but Grand Targhee and Jackson Hole on 4-days with decent gov't rental stuff was great. Also having the Tetons in view all the time. And all the girls who really wanted you to take them with you at the end....

Re: females (ss)- should an IUD or Norplant be a requirement for deploying?

5/31/2012 12:04 PM

Anonymous jay the nuk said...


Are you serious?

5/31/2012 12:44 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Navy took four beautiful,healthy wisdom teeth from my mouth (against my will, like I had a choice)just because it might prevent an operational problem for the ship.

Is it inconceivable that the Navy might place some "special medical" requirement on female sub sailors just because it might prevent an operational problem for the ship?


5/31/2012 1:01 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Based on the precedents set by the Nuc ET and ST communities, I think genital removal prior to reporting would be within reason.

5/31/2012 1:24 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Graduation Ceremony!?!

Back in the really dark ages (65-1), all you got was your NEC changed and a set of orders after you passed your board.

5/31/2012 1:34 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

One of my favorite memories of MTS-635 was a particular field day. I was standing ESF watch and was supervising some students in the ESF DG space. I had one kid dive under the starboard DG to wipe up oil leakage. The fun started when SP went down - DG's rumble to life with the kid under one of them. I got permission from the Shift Eng to send him home - he pissed scrambling out from under the DG!

PB Sterling

5/31/2012 1:45 PM

Blogger Wells said...

"1. I'm pretty sure that the average commercial pilot or flight attendant is getting a higher dose than nucs. Even including that higher rate when if working in the RC."

Now, I have a story about this one. My father was an Air Force fighter pilot for 20 years (drafted in Vietnam, started with the F-4 and retired it out of Homestead) then went on to fly for the airlines for another 15 years.

The first airline he flew for was Pan Am, and when the went under he looked around for another job, and eventually got a safety manager position out of a resort community close to Turkey Point nuclear power plant in the Miami area.

As the safety officer for the community, he was invited to Turkey Point for a tour to show him how safe it was, etc. etc. Part of that tour was for him to get an initial body count.

You can imagine the total surprise of the technician there when my dad totally spiked the results, having a much higher count than most civilians. It was explained away as him having eat a banana or two for breakfast that morning, but I feel that he just had a much higher base count because of the thirty years of flying at >30k feet.

5/31/2012 2:15 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

@ anon 8:14 and 11:26,

Believe it or not the litigation on radiation induced (fill in the blank) is settled very firmly in the fact that ALARA is not the standard of care, the legal limits are the standard. IF the young woman in question were to become pregnant in the vicinity of the RC and the dosimeter records showed that she had not been exposed to greater than 500 mrem for the term of her pregnancy once she declared herself pregnant, no matter how pregnant she looks the navy cannot tell her she is pregnant for the purpose of radiation protection, then the navy the navy cannot be held liable for radiation exposure if birth defects result.

5/31/2012 2:31 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Somebody's counting is extremely suspect.

In 2000, ADM Bowman honored the 100,000 graduate from NPS in Charkeston.

12 years later, New York is claiming that 50,000 represents "half of the graduates".

So nobody graduated in the past 12 years?

The best thing about mad up numbers is they are hard to disprove....

5/31/2012 3:52 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Prototype? 1991- Coming off the mid shift and trying to get back home after a ice storm in Saratoga Springs area, in my 5.0L Mustang GT Ensign-mobile. Made it safely; it's amazing how motivating the need for sleep can be.

5/31/2012 4:48 PM

Anonymous mark/MM1(ss) said...

@ wells:
I can assure you that your father's elevated whole body count was not due to flying, unless he was exposed to a lot of depleted uranium residue. You're confusing radiation with radioactivity - they are not the same. The radiation exposure that air crew receives is from cosmic radiation, that no longer has 30,000 ft worth of air shielding it. A body count cannot measure how much radiation exposure the person receives, instead it measures the body burden of radioactivity that the individual has ingested from natural and unnatural sources, and has not been eliminated from the body by either radioactive decay or biological processes. Radioactivity is matter, with an unstable nucleus that emits radiation when it decays. Bananas are a rich source of potassium, which is found as one of three isotopes, two of which are stable, and a third, K-40, which is radioactive with a relatively short half-life. Spinach, rich in iron, 5% of which is a radioactive form (long half-life) also contributes to the natural body burden. Non-food sources are mostly either from radon decay daughters, either from radon gas in homes, or for smokers, large amounts found in tobacco that is absorbed from naturally occurring radioactivity from the Thorium decay chain in soil. This is a big reason for the carcinogenic nature of tobacco smoke, incidentally.

5/31/2012 5:39 PM

Blogger Vigilis said...

Very informative all, but nothing stated alters the basic questions: when will the first submarine pregnancy radiation litigation ensue?
How much will taxpayers be liable to pay the USNA graduate, and why won't the 30% reward her lawyer accrues terminate the legally hemorrhaging experiment?

Take a wild guess, gentlemen. Defend yourselves SWO admirals!

5/31/2012 6:27 PM

Anonymous mark/MM1(ss) said...

The surface nuc community will have a trickier (but still not that tricky) time defending against such a lawsuit than the submarine community because of the cosmic radiation issue I mentioned above. Almost everyone in a submarine crew receives less radiation underway than they would have received from natural sources in port. As effective as 30000 feet of air is in shielding cosmic radiation, adding several hundred feet of seawater eliminates almost all of the remaining dose, in most cases outweighing the dose they receive underway from the reactor. As someone else mentioned, there is a legal limit for ionizing radiation to a fetus of 500 mrem for the gestation period; which is well above what any Navy nuc receives in a year. As long as the legal limits are adhered to, lawsuits have no chance. Whether there might be a case with other environmental hazards on a submarine such as monoethanolamine (sp?) is another matter - but I have no expertise in that.

5/31/2012 6:46 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

@trf (5/31/2012 9:41 AM)

"It looks like at least two of them already have their fish. Or are they transfers from the SWO community? The photo isn't clear enough for me to tell."

None of them have fish yet. The two you saw are skimmers. As far as I know none of them have their engineering quals finished, let alone forward quals.

5/31/2012 8:16 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

While going through NPS with the first group of female submariners, they told us that they had to sign a pg 13 that said that the Navy was not responsible for any birth defect issues resulting from their service on a sub.

Favorite prototype memory... After failing his FOB twice another student said that his dad told him not to worry because he had explained the situation to his golfing buddy Skip Bowman, he passed somehow...

As far as men being held back while women are accelerated through the pipeline, true story... Been there got held back. They also get preferential orders, it's hard to go to a GN when there are only 2 available to dudes.

5/31/2012 9:34 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Presumably any injury to a baby conceived on board a ship would be found out of the line of duty due to the member's own misconduct...

6/01/2012 5:12 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"While going through NPS with the first group of female submariners, they told us that they had to sign a pg 13 that said that the Navy was not responsible for any birth defect issues resulting from their service on a sub."

I'm sure that being ordered to sign away the mother's/babies constitutional rights will play well in front of a jury.

Let's see--the Navy knows about the birth defects problem, assigns the women to submarines anyway, and then tries to cover its ass by ordering them to sign away not only their own rights, but those of the baby as well. Clever.

The legality of a woman signing away such rights (particularly under coercion) is at minimum an open question, as is whether the mother could sign away the rights of the baby and/or the father. Additionally, since states often pick up some of the tab for children with birth defects, affected states would seem to have a case against the Federal government too.

And the Navy better hope there are no women on that jury.

6/01/2012 10:18 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Vaginus and sea lawyers...perfect together!

6/01/2012 11:09 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wanna take a guess when the first boat hosts a baby shower? DI water anyone?

6/01/2012 11:14 AM

Blogger rbmcmjr said...

On a separate question - if this prototype has graduated 50K, what is the total number of Nuclear Prototype graduates??

According to our official numbers, NPTU Idaho (S1W, A1W, and S5G) graduated 39,000-plus students, including civilians.

According to Wikipedia, S1C had over 14,000 graduates.

I'm not sure about the MTSs.

6/01/2012 4:20 PM

Anonymous Ding said...

Ah, prototype. Went to S1W in 77, foundly remember being Dink and staying in the huts over by the ECF.

Remember watching the sunrise over the Tetons on Mid Shift.

Remember my first watch as a qualified RO and recieving a silent full scram when the ATI failed.

Remember the rabbits being inside the fence and the coyotes on the outside.

Remember the Hub in downtown Idaho Falls.

Remember my hair freezing to the window on the bus ride out to site.

Remember snowshoeing to the middle of Lake Solitude in the Tetons and being awestruck.

Remember nearly dying at Grand Targhee on my first ski trip.

Remember being puzzled why the snow did not stick to the ground in some places.

Remember Chief Hunt riding my ass. Thanks Chief, it worked.

Remember playing beer ball against the staff at Tautphaus Park in Idaho Falls.

Remember getting even when a spray ponder came to my boat and I was the qualified one.

Nuclear Power school (MINSY), NPTU and qualifying on the boat were not the easiest things I have ever done but they sure gave that punk kid a solid foundation. I even endured some hazing along the way. (Shellback for one). I'd do it all again.

6/01/2012 4:26 PM

Anonymous dirty blueshirt said...

Hey PB Sterling ex-ET1/SS, was that in mid '92? If so, I remember that incident, because I was a recently qualified RO standing AMR2UL watch when it happened. I remember hearing all about him almost killing himself in his rush to get the hell out of the space as the ESFs runbled to life above him.

6/02/2012 6:44 AM

Anonymous dirty blueshirt said...

PB Sterling ex-ET1/SS, were you also the one with the ASDIP (Another Shi**y Day In Paradise) sticker on the back of your site badge?

6/02/2012 6:49 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

My most memorable prototype story was during a 4 day off we did a run down to Daytona Beach from Charleston.

On the way back we were in my Buikc Skyhawk. About 2-3 AM we cross into GA and proceed to get pulled over by a State Trooper. The reason? Supposedly my rear license plate light was "blinking".

So he separates us and ask's where we are headed, etc. Turns out the my basic sedan, with 2-3 yound males, doing exactly the speed limit fit the profile of drug runners. You would think the nearly empty trunk and consistent "story" by all of us would have sufficed.

Nope! Several trooper cars later they scanned the car with a dog. Of course it came out clean.

If that was done to me today I'd own that mother*^(*er's badge and sue him.

Oh yeah, and two years later not once did the license plate light "flicker" or blink. What a surprise.

Another memoery is a good fried of mine who trashed his whole nuke career for a girl he fell in love with but she left him for another guy. Saw the train wreck coming and of course the Navy has no sympathy for guys who end up down that path. He ended up UA for like 2 weeks and they tossed him.

6/04/2012 12:16 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dirty Blueshirt,

Yup - my badge had ASDIP on it!

Regards PB

6/04/2012 6:49 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

PB, I remember you as well. Was at MTS-635 from October 90 to May 91

I had great time at prototype. I had hoped to be a staff pick-up didn't get chosen. Best 6 months of my time in the Navy.

6/04/2012 4:19 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Who gives a fuck! You guys have nothing better to bitch about.

6/04/2012 6:40 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon 6/04/2012 6:40 PM, women and submarines don't mix. Oil and water.

What I can't wait for is the first male squid to be able to sue a female for harassment and/or discrimination. Now THAT would make me glib as it happens every day with the chip on women's shoulders.

I can only imagine the tension women create with their agenda to "prove" something. Assimilation is a huge part of military culture and women aren't a good fit for the submarine community.

Women on subs is probably one of the worst ideas in the history of the submarine service IMO.

I'll be rooting against you ;)

6/04/2012 8:35 PM

Anonymous anonymousJO said...

This one is near and dear to my heart...I a senior JO on one of the boats that sent the women to DC...just to dispel some rumors from other comments....

1. Pretty sure all of the females came from off-crew boats. Or in my case, we were in refit. So no missed sea time.

2. Both of the females on my boat have finished engineering quals (and Chop just qual-ed DOOW). Not to say it wasn't pulling teeth to get it are still a ways out though.

3. Which leads me to point was kinda bullshit that us senior, male JOs got shafted with more duty so that they could fly the girls back to DC. And they took one of the guys, to make it appear gender-neutral. But that is probably just the navy/complainer in me. Not sure why they (my command) are letting the females get of the hook standing duty (I am standing 3x one of them, and I've done 4x the patrols). I guess somebody's got to make sure the boat gets underway...

4. It was the White House. One of the JOs from my boat asked a certain 3 star in charge of the operation why only girls were in the photo op....said 3 star tried to get guys there to, but the White House shut him down.

6/07/2012 1:04 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yea, your extra year of experience makes you so entitled to less duty. Can't believe an XO doesn't see it that way.


There is no rank among JOs, and doing a few patrols doen't entitle you to anything except a patrol pin. Get over yourself.

6/07/2012 6:51 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

There is no rank among JOs, and doing a few patrols doen't (sic) entitle you to anything except a patrol pin. Get over yourself.

Sez LtJg Leztwat.

6/07/2012 7:23 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon at 6/07/2012 6:51 AM, tell that to someone who's had leave denied and practically been tethered to a boat for that previous year.... Trust me everyone wants a break so special deals that cause one person to have to back fill someone's absence does put sand in someone's shorts.

That extra year means one person is standing many watches while the second person is a nub.

Your post is the very premise of why people oppose leztwats on boats. The special treatment. Go FUCK yourself.

6/07/2012 8:04 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

The women in question weren't on leave. They were ordered to go to DC. That is the duty the Navy tasked them to perform. And while you obviously think that's a better deal than whatever it is you're doing when you are in port and the boat isn't ("working" 6 hour days is sooo hard), they might not feel that way. If any of them are married, they just got a few more days mandated away from the fam just to go kiss ass. What if they had to miss some other special day back home just to go take a picture with Obama? What if they are staunch republicans and strongly dislike Obama... now they have to stand there with a shit eating grin and kiss his ass. And believe it or not, there are people who don't care for DC. I point this out simply to highlight that just because YOU would view an Obama photo op as a great vacation doesn't mean everyone would.

Your special treatment gripes and angst over denied leave would be better addressed in a private convo with the xo/co instead of whining on a blog about how entitled you are to not stand duty. Just saying.

6/07/2012 8:52 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

@0852 - Dude wasn't in off crew working 6 hour days as you put it. His boat was in refit which is a shitty place to be, especially if you are missing qualified watch officers. i don't begrudge him one bit for being pissed off. your little hypothetical situations about what the women may or may not think about Obama or what they may or may not have missed at home doesn't change the fact they got a good deal while others had to cover for them. What about there divisions? Where was they division officer during this important time? The fact they didn't miss sea time doesn't change the fact that they missed important stuff and screwed others over - no pun intended.

6/07/2012 10:02 PM

Anonymous anonymousJO said...

OK, so a couple things.

@0651: I believe I pointed out in my original post (under bullet #3) that I was complaining excessively, as is my right/obligation as a member of the US Navy. (After all, somebody has to fight against stupidity. And it sure as hell isn't going to be a daywalker who drank the cool-aid. And it definitely isn't going to be some CPO who gets the standard brainwashing once they get picked up for E-7 and subsequently forgets their roots as a young sailor who has to deal with the bullshit.) Please don't act like I am some oblivious asshole. I know my place in the wardroom....but I also know their place(non-qual'ed JOs, that is). Making me stand more duty isn't it, whatever the reason. From my perspective, anyways.

@0804: Amen, brother.

@0852: Yes. Six hours a day during an SSB(G)N refit. Clearly, somebody has forgotten what it is like to actually serve on a submarine. And trust me, they weren't "staunch republicans and strongly dislike Obama" who had to "stand there with a shit eating grin and kiss his ass." They were non-qualified, inexperienced JOs who took every opportunity to talk about how they were going to meet the president(trust me, it got old quickly). And on top of that, they did take leave to have a couple days off in DC since they were there. I am sure a "private convo" with the xo/co would have fixed that. I learned a long time ago that my XO doesn't give a FUCK about my leave/liberty.

@1002: See above comment for @0804

6/07/2012 10:23 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

6/07/2012 8:52 PM your comments will change we it's you getting fucked over.

99% of the problem with commands and XO/CO issues is they don't give a rats ass about moves like this and how the impact crew cohesiveness.

I'm no longer in just because of stupid stunts like this. Oxymoron = military intelligence.

I get shudders think about a female voice blaring over the 2JV or 1MC on an underway boat.

Can't wait for the first time one of the leztwats fucks up and gets taken to mast.

6/08/2012 1:29 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

It really doesn't matter what anyone's opinion is of "the deal." The President wanted a photo op.. simple orders they might be theybare orders. No different than getting a week at CDIO school or photo school... some may consider it a good deal, others not, but it's what is needed and it's easier to spare nubs for such things. Why stress over being angry and jealous? They'll get "their turn" plenty.

6/08/2012 5:42 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

It really doesn't matter what anyone's opinion is of "the deal." The President wanted a photo op.. simple orders they might be theybare orders. No different than getting a week at CDIO school or photo school... some may consider it a good deal, others not, but it's what is needed and it's easier to spare nubs for such things. Why stress over being angry and jealous? They'll get "their turn" plenty.

6/08/2012 5:42 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thw women were ordered to the White House. So someone had to stand an extra duty and/or watch in refit. So what? You are on a Boomer! You don't own the boat/have duty half of the time! It is the best deal in the Navy, so get over it or go to a fast boat and enjoy Saturdays, Sundays and Nights. (One of my 3 boats was a Trident, so I feel qualified to give shit to the T-hull folks)

6/25/2012 10:54 AM

Blogger Not a racist, but you probably are said...

Responding to the top. Because diversity is popular. Look at the 2008 election. If you are a white male American you are the most discriminated against group anywhere today. And God forbid you try to band together to do something about it. I'm not a racist, not at all, but I can't stand that all there other races are basically allowed to be racist and no one seems to care. In 2004, 13% of African Americans voted for Bush. In 2008 99% of all African Americans voted for Obama. Was McCain that much less qualified or are they racist? Not enough evidence? When Herman Cain was a potential candidate this year polls showed that slightly over 20% of African Americans supported him. Now that he's out polls show that just about 99% of the African American population that chooses to vote will vote for Obama this year. Those choosing not to vote for Obama, largely because of his support of gay marriage, are just choosing not to vote for the most part, rather than voting for Romney. That is so racist. Going back to your women thing. When Hillary was a candidate many republican women were going to vote for her just because she was a female and certainly didn't vote for Obama when she lost the primary to him. Racism is alive and well in America today but it's not the white men (other than a tiny percentage of idiot nazis and kkk rednecks) that are perpetuating it. So, if you voted for Obama in 2008 to prove you're not racist, you'll have to vote for someone else in 2012 to prove you're not an idiot.

7/15/2012 8:30 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I realize my previous comment was not completely on topic but this started as a rant by one guy and has ended as a rant by me.

7/15/2012 8:32 AM

Anonymous Robert W said...

I was stationed onboard the USS Nautilus back when I was in the Navy and was exposed to radiation during that time. I was a good health then but ever siince I left the Nautilus I started to have minor problems with my health which the Navy never really did take care of. I am now completely disabled and I can trace ALL of my medical problems back to that time and up about 2004 my doctors or I could figure out why. In 2004 I recieved my radiation exposue paperwork from the Nautilus and it showed that I started to recieve the last 6 months onboard. After research I came up that my disabilities can all be traced back to the exposure. And I am now fighting the VA for my service-connected diability. Are there ANY other bubbleheads out there who trying to get help? Please contact me at

4/30/2013 1:08 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Swindt was specifically selected as a political move. No doubt about it. I know personally how it was done, why it was done, and who did it. But whatever. As long as it makes people happy, who cares. We had to select someone for the ceremony. And it had to be done well in advance of knowing the exact 50,000 person. So, there you go.

6/10/2013 11:38 AM


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