Keeping the blogosphere posted on the goings on of the world of submarines since late 2004... and mocking and belittling general foolishness wherever it may be found. Idaho's first and foremost submarine blog. (If you don't like something on this blog, please E-mail me; don't call me at home.)

Tuesday, August 14, 2012

Not Everything You Read On The Internet Is True

I'm really hesitant to post this drivel purporting to be a "news" report that a Russian Akula spent a month in the Gulf of Mexico without being detected, but I've gotten enough requests that I figure I'll throw it out there. All I ask is that those discussing how either idiotic or manipulative (depending on if you think he really believes it, or if you think he knows it's not true and also knows that those who know the truth are constrained by confidentiality from saying so) the writer, Bill Gertz, is, not reveal anything classified about why his imaginary tale couldn't really happen -- I know it's tough, but please try. Like with all the uninformed conjecture about the Chinese submarine that surfaced near USS Kitty Hawk back in 2006, this is unfortunately one of those cases where someone with an agenda is allowed to run roughshod over the facts and those who know how the real world works aren't allowed to contradict them.

For those non-submariners having a hard time reading between the lines of what I'm saying, I'll make it a little clearer: Obviously, it's possible that a Russian SSN could travel to the Gulf of Mexico and cruise around for a month in international waters during peacetime, even though that has no real military value, as we have no real naval bases with things like major combatants in the Gulf, and what do you expect the U.S. to do to stop them from transiting international waters, fire at them and start a war? -- it's the "undetected" part that strains credibility to the point of humor.

56 Comments:

Blogger KellyJ said...

If it was undetected, how do we know it was in the Gulf?

Sorry, not buying this story at all.

8/14/2012 11:37 PM

 
Anonymous porttackstart said...

Pretty much laughed out loud at the part where he was claiming the Akula was in a position to threaten our boomers coming out of kings bay from all the way down there. He seemed to think that they come out on the "gulf coast" of GA!

8/15/2012 12:40 AM

 
Blogger dark cloud said...

Good grief what a load of crap! There is so much BS in that article I could barely read it against the brown background!

Though I have no personal knowledge of any of the hypothesized events, the Russians would not 'penetrate US airspace', and they certainly wouldn't be trying to fly to CA from Kamchatka round trip. That's probably not possible. The Russians didn't penetrate US airspace during the cold war, why do it now? The point is not to 'test US air defense' but to tell us they are still there. Crikey, you can watch them on radar practically from take off!

I wonder who the Free Beacon thinks believes this tripe? Wait, I can name a blogger I see here who is just paranoid enough to believe it...Hehe.

8/15/2012 3:02 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Not Everything You Read On The Internet Is True - including this blog?

:)

8/15/2012 4:46 AM

 
Anonymous Dardar the Submarian said...

Do you remember back in the good ol' days when the hippies would just make an "End of the World Nuclear Holocaust" movie.

That was the best. It scared enough people to be "productive" without really terrorizing a stupid, stupid nation.

My only thought here kept going back to a "U.S. Official said". It just repeated itself in my mind - The Souvenir Clerk at Bull Run National Park is technically a U.S. Official. The government warehouse worker at the Army depot is a U.S. Official.

8/15/2012 4:57 AM

 
Blogger sub-aux-740 said...

About three years ago there was in fact an akula submarine and (AGI) russian trowler sitting off the coast of jacksonville fl....as we were leaving for a deployment the submarine was spotted classified and then chased off by our attack submarines out of norfolk....that was on CNN....so the possibility of the russians coming over again to gain intel on the sounds that our ships make while transitting is entirely believable....(because we do make port calls to places like the bahamas and mexico and south america...) and OH BY THE WAY of you think we arent doing it right now then your high cause we are always looking in our neighbors backyard just to make sure everything is ok

8/15/2012 6:16 AM

 
Blogger Scrag0416 said...

Thank you...yet another Tom Clancey is born. The article was poorly written and a fabrication. "Offical Naval Sources"....wow I checked my NMCI account and could not find anyone listed under that name.

8/15/2012 7:40 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Can't really say whether it is true or not. However, i have seen similar incidences thayt were true. It certainly is plausible. Consider this though: It can't be anything but good for the Submarine Force. These days the only real roles for Submarines are shooting cruise missiles, gathering intel, and making men outr of boys and women out of girls. Cruise missiles and INTEL gathering does not suffice to find and sink enemy submarines. That takes sensor employment and torpedoes. Having adversaries and potential adversaries creates a whole resurrected mission for the SSN. Resurrerction of that mission will result in increased numbers and capabilities of submarines. From the business development perspective, the activity is a good thing. Plus, anyone who has ever tracked and trailed or been tracked and trailed know that there is no better training for our submariners. It really makes it all real.

8/15/2012 7:41 AM

 
Anonymous 4-Stop said...

“Porttackstart said… pretty much laughed out loud at the part where he was claiming the Akula was in a position to threaten our boomers coming out of kings bay”

Um, you do know they carry cruise missiles, some of them nuclear, which can be launched from the gulf and hit bases only 300-400 miles away. That would make for a bad day for a boat sitting at the pier in K-Bay or Jax.

8/15/2012 7:51 AM

 
Anonymous Dardar the Submarian said...

And you do know the boat can do that without getting hemmed in by Florida, Cuba, and the Yucatan peninsula?

400 miles out at sea with a big ol' ocean to run in is better. Central America is one hell of a blockade.

8/15/2012 8:31 AM

 
Blogger Josh Hoops said...

porttackstart said...
Pretty much laughed out loud at the part where he was claiming the Akula was in a position to threaten our boomers coming out of kings bay from all the way down there. He seemed to think that they come out on the "gulf coast" of GA!

Either that or they have some REALLY bad ass torpedoes with a REALLY long range... or those super secret fly over land torpedos the Russians have been working on since the Bay of Pigs... I'm sorry, I just had to laugh out loud... no, seriously LOL at this one. What an idiot.

8/15/2012 9:41 AM

 
Anonymous 4-Stop said...

“Dardar” Let’s see if I can dumb this down for you. For a submarine that is at an acoustic disadvantage (Think Akula) to its target.
1.Hide in hot (Gulf) hunt in cold (Atlantic)
2.Perform ops in a low ELINT environment (Gulf)
3.Operate in low ASW threat area (Gulf) BTW P-3’s in Jax are shit hot at hunting us bubbleheads.
4.Operate in waters close to allies for refit, refuel, and refuge. (Cuba and Venezuela)
5.Operate in a target rich environment GOPLATS, White shipping and land based targets; naval bases, shipbuilding facilities, nuclear power plants.
6.And stay the hell away from known SOSUS sites

And this concludes SOBC 101 any questions?

8/15/2012 10:34 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maybe the Akula was there, maybe not - maybe we did know it was there, maybe not but...

I would think the Russians might like to have a little operational experience in an area where we have a lot of offshore oil rigs.

There easy targets, don't shoot back and what better to hit in time of crisis to cause chaos?

Old chief from the dark ages
Jerry

8/15/2012 10:41 AM

 
Anonymous Dardar the Submarian said...

Holy fuck, 4-stop. You are absolutely right. I never even thought about a boat starting World War 3 from the fucking Gulf of Mexico and actually getting away with it.

I forgot that the range of those fantastic P-3 Orion anti-submarine aircraft is so short, that there is absolutely no fucking way they could get to the Gulf of Mexico from Jacksonville in less than 2 hours.

Oh, and I forgot that there is no fucking way - again, assuming that a singular Akula submarine has started WW III by pinpointing Kings Bay, GA from the middle of the fucking Gulf of Mexico - we could ever get assets, designed to acquire and destroy a rogue submarine, in the relatively narrow gaps between the Gulf of Mexico and the cold, cold Atlantic ocean. I guess we would just let the "Allied" port that this asshole pull into, just quietly re-arm and refuel until the heat was off.

As a matter of fact, I don't know why the Russians have ever thought of operating where it is so cold. They should just surface if the temperature of the water is below 80 degrees, because they are as good as caught.

I truly have been retired too long. I still thought we had a Navy. Thank you Mickey fuckin' Spillane for that wonderful overview of military capabilities.

8/15/2012 11:21 AM

 
Anonymous NaderPaulKucinichGravelMcKinneyBaldwinVenturaSheehanPerotCarter NPS-Orlando76 NFO-Pensacola80 said...

Do you know who "did not" shoot RFK?

11 SEP 01 operation
the list goes on ...

8/15/2012 11:57 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Didn't we just comission a submarine in the Gulf of Mexico?

8/15/2012 2:16 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon @ 4:46-

Certainly not the comments.

8/15/2012 3:16 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The The Washington Free Beacon, a project of the 501(c)4 Center for American Freedom, is a nonprofit online newspaper that began publication on February 7, 2012. Dedicated to uncovering the stories that the professional left hopes will never see the light of day, the Free Beacon produces in-depth and investigative reporting on a wide range of issues, including public policy, government affairs, international security, and media criticism. Whether it’s exposing cronyism, dissecting the relationship between the progressive movement and the mainstream media, finding out just who is shaping our domestic and foreign policy and why, or highlighting the threats to American security and peace in a dangerous world, the Free Beacon is committed to serving the public interest by reporting news and information that currently is not being fully covered by other news organizations."

... Never mind. Just election-year PSYOP.

8/15/2012 5:05 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

@ Darder
Akula=not at a disadvantage
1.hide where bad guys arent, hunt where they are, temperature is bullshit if there are no bad guys.
2.low ELINT = low intel
3.P-3's suck
4.Cuba is cool, but you are still a tool
5.Your targets in the Gulf...arent
6.SOSUS sucks too

The crap you said does mirror SOBT

@SCRAGS...here's to us...

8/15/2012 5:31 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

LMAO anon @5:31 hit it square on the head. That douche sounds like a junior sonarman with a just enough tid bits of knowledge to make himself sound like a real asshat!

8/15/2012 7:16 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Correction to my last.... he's a JO. Even a Junior Sonarman would know that the hot cold theory is not really a large body of water tactic and that P3s cant track their own ass without a lat/long to go off of.

8/15/2012 7:30 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Story was dreamed up by some staffer in the Pentagon then 'leaked' to Bill Gertz so he could write his article. All in an effort to show to the people and Congress that we are in fact vulnerable and will not be safe if sequestration happens.

That's my tin foil hat theory anyway.

8/15/2012 7:54 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Akula may have had a port call while in the Gulf of Mexico. Conspirators will note that it's only a short trip up the Mississippi River to Saint Louis for some really excellent barbecue ribs. That could explain the recent spate of closures of the Huey P. Long Bridge, supposedly for "widening" the bridge.

8/16/2012 1:08 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Now I know why we have to answer Huey P. Long Bridge questions on the Rules of the Road exams!

8/16/2012 10:10 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just had a Russian warship participate in RIMPAC. Why sneak around when we will invite you in?

http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20120630/174325827.html

8/16/2012 6:50 PM

 
Anonymous MentalJim said...

Does anyone else find that TV commercial with the overhead shot of a carrier and the voice of Darth Vader telling us the Navy is a global force for good funny and creepy at the same time?

Really? Darth Vader says it is ok, so it must be true.

8/16/2012 7:14 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The "global force for good" (manned by people that are trained to kill you by a variety of weapons including everthing from knives to nuclear weapons) always reminds me of the movie Starship Troopers.

And why do we have to always be the good guys?

8/16/2012 7:55 PM

 
Anonymous tina said...

Whatever the Russians are doing, we cannot literally make the answer now. Nevertheless, I agree to the fact that not everything you read on the net is true.

8/17/2012 8:30 AM

 
Blogger djsipe said...

"The Washington Free Beacon is a project of the Center For American Freedom (CAF). CAF is a newly formed, non-profit, non-partisan organization described in Section 501(c)(4) of the U.S. Internal Revenue Code. Donations to the Center For American Freedom are not tax-deductible as charitable contributions for US federal income tax purposes. There are no donation limits or restrictions for contributions to the Center For American Freedom." - https://americanfreedom.com/donate/

8/17/2012 9:58 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

***Anonymous @ 0755 said "And why do we have to always be the good guys?"***

Oh I love it!

Nothing wrong with being the good guys. We are really the good guys anymore. We are the fluffy PC guys with no sack...and not talking just about the Navy and its leadership, but our country and its leadership and its policies!

Ain't no thang though...we will be fiscally destroyed in a couple of years if we don't turn around dramatically!

8/17/2012 11:29 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

That should read that we "aren't" really the good guys anymore...sorry.

8/17/2012 11:30 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"P3s cant track their own ass without a lat/long to go off of."

Yep... we need a datum or some sort of queueing. My guess is... you do too. I cannot speak for the guys in the P-3's now... But I have watched from above as a US SSN "went squirrely" after "One Ping Only Please" just to let em know we knew... kinda funny to watch...

8/17/2012 11:39 AM

 
Blogger ron kesler said...

I really miss playing with the Russians.

8/17/2012 2:14 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...


"Yep... we need a datum or some sort of queueing. My guess is... you do too. I cannot speak for the guys in the P-3's now... But I have watched from above as a US SSN "went squirrely" after "One Ping Only Please" just to let em know we knew... kinda funny to watch..."

Actually, subs are extremely effective at locating targets without a lat/long. The sub that you saw get squirrely was more than likely running some type of drill. Evasion tactic would be my guess.

8/17/2012 8:35 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

".. But I have watched from above as a US SSN "went squirrely" after "One Ping Only Please" just to let em know we knew... kinda funny to watch..."

Fairly shallow thermocline, was it, or actually realistic? You can't say.
We understand.

8/19/2012 11:20 PM

 
Blogger Ross Kline said...

It's officially not drivel, now. I swa it on the MSM. It must be true, right?

8/20/2012 9:46 AM

 
Anonymous k said...

It's officially not idle banter anymore because a US Senator is now asking questions.

A top Senate Republican wants to know how a Russian attack submarine was able to conduct a patrol mission miles off the U.S. coastline without the knowledge of the American military or intelligence officials.
---
“The Akula was built for one reason and one reason only: to kill U.S. Navy ballistic missile submarines and their crews,” a U.S. official told the Washington Free Beacon on Tuesday.

One of the two submarines was able to traverse U.S. coastal waters undetected for nearly a month, according to the official.


So, US military and intelligence officials didn't know anything about this - except for the one guy (or gal) that knew and blabbed to the press.

Right.


http://thehill.com/blogs/defcon-hill/navy/244169-cornyn-presses-navy-on-russian-subs-off-us-coast-

http://news.yahoo.com/texas-senator-cornyn-demands-answers-russian-sub-gulf-183300516.html

8/20/2012 12:21 PM

 
Blogger Vigilis said...

Ross Kline,

“This is especially troubling given the drastic defense cuts sought by President Obama, which include reductions in funding for antisubmarine defense systems.” - Sen. John Cornyn

If Crrnyn's transparency in this phony sub alarm has been politically obvious, what is truly sinister is the silence of his fellow lawyers (R, D, and I) who not only dominate the U.S. Senate but oversee the growing encroachment of lawyers into regulation of our lives.

More troubling than a trumped up sub in the Gulf, for instance, are the hundreds of examples like this: Travis Tygart, Chief Executive Officer of the non-profit organization U.S. Anti-Doping Agency is also a lawyer. Why? Follow the money.

While tentacles of D.C.'s lawyer-political complex insidiously turn our society into nobles and commoners, does anyone really expect our senators to sound that alarm?

8/21/2012 5:56 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just heard another CMC relieved in the Submarine Force! It's about time!

8/21/2012 7:05 PM

 
Blogger Henson said...

Wow. Newsflash. Lawyers write laws - as opposed to Joe down the street, or the people who write submarine training regs (because they'd do SUCH a better job...)

Seriously, sometimes my eyes can't roll far enough into my head to properly respond to the crap in the comments here.

8/21/2012 7:12 PM

 
Blogger Ross Kline said...

Maybe a non-lawyer would write a better law. It would be simple, easy to understand, and probably make sense. The original law that set forth the Interstate highway system was shorter than the laws governing signs on the same system...amd we could always go back to the original laws...not a lot of room for interpetation on "Thou Shalt Not _______"

8/22/2012 4:17 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Lawyers write laws - as opposed to Joe down the street, or the people who write submarine training regs (because they'd do SUCH a better job...)" - Henson

News flash for simpletons. Lawyers not only write laws, they, not the public interpret their meaning.

To simplify this debasement of the founders' intent, would you want to play Monopoly with a lawyer if only he/she had the final say in interpreting the game rules?

Over 60% of the U.S. Senate are lawyers. Can anyone argue this result has been great for the country or even representative of "Joe down the street"?

And to make the self-dealing even worse lawyers get very wealthy (most lobbyists are lawyers) doing lucrative things like this for foreign governments:

http://legaltimes.typepad.com/blt/2012/08/chinese-aviation-company-retains-locke-lord-for-lobbying-effort.html#more

8/22/2012 10:23 AM

 
Anonymous Jeff ssbn 740 said...

it'd be one foolish Akula that tries to go after a boomer

8/22/2012 4:50 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Just heard another CMC relieved in the Submarine Force! It's about time!"

Assuming you're talking about the guy I'm thinking of, yes, it IS about time. I'm amazed he lasted this long. The details will astound...

Also, there's been a few stories on the big news sites about a guy in Federal Way, WA being arrested after emailing death threats against the President. Word is, he's a former submariner?

8/24/2012 12:40 PM

 
Blogger Vigilis said...

Not Everything You Read on the Internet is True .. in this case, the accused death threat perpetrator may have placed it there (http://www.linkedin.com/in/antoncaluori) himself:

Second Class Petty Officer (Sub-Surface Warfare Designator)
US Navy

Government Agency; 10,001+ employees; Military industry

December 2000 – October 2005 (4 years 11 months) Washington State
"Submarine Machinist Mate
Preformed [sic]: nuclear reactor change out, multiple sub-surface ICBM missile launches (Atlantic and Pacific ranges), >500,000 miles at sea (below the water line), hundreds of "Classified" and "Top Secret" operations at sea and on land, several artic [sic] and equatorial patrols, presidential recommendation upon captain, crew and vessel, surveillance and counter-surveillance of land mass, aerial, and surface target/contacts, nuclear weapons loading and off-loading, 100 hour work weeks import [sic] and at sea."

Well, there it is!

8/24/2012 1:13 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If Calouri served in the USN, he was not a Nuke. He did not serve the full Nuclear Power Program service commitment (six years active IIRC, is that still the requirement?), and the service schooling he lists makes it look like he was a surface Machinist Mate/A-Ganger. He may have entered the service as Nuke designated, but likely he failed out along the way, and had to serve whatever additional commitment he accrued due to the schooling he did receive.

Snorkel 98

8/24/2012 2:41 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

That write up is hilarious. He was an a-ganger. The boat he was on did an ERO and post-overhaul DASO. It was a boomers obviously, meaning we didn't do any surveillance or counter-surveillance, land, aerial or otherwise. The 100-hour week is probably legit if you're in the yard, if you count two duty days and claim the 48 hours I guess...

8/24/2012 3:23 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So long, Tommy boy. Hope all the fun you had was worth it. Clown.

8/24/2012 3:34 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wonder if he's going to post his cell phone number now?

8/25/2012 5:38 AM

 
Blogger SJV said...

^^^ Most of us enlisted nukes didn't sleep on duty days, since we worked on getting stuff done. EDO's, not so much. And three section duty gets you three duty days a week on some weeks....I kept track of hours one inport (SSN, not BN). I stopped keeping track after that. Too depressing.

8/25/2012 6:47 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"To simplify this debasement of the founders' intent, would you want to play Monopoly with a lawyer if only he/she had the final say in interpreting the game rules?"

One of the original proposed amendments was to prevent members of the bar from sitting as legislators. Still a good idea...

8/25/2012 2:31 PM

 
Blogger Curt said...


Happy Birthday,
Joel
.

8/26/2012 6:47 AM

 
Anonymous website said...

nice post

8/27/2012 1:20 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To the anon who thinks non-lawyers writing laws is a good idea, note that the judiciary (made up mainly of lawyers) will still in the end determine what the words in those laws mean.

8/28/2012 2:19 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm not a submarine guy, just someone who tracks military news on a daily basis, and when I saw the Gertz story, I knew it was crap because he has a decades long history of writing crap. What worried me was all the other folks, including some Russian media, who picked up his story and treated it as if it were somehow real.

9/06/2012 11:37 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As one who "Knew" Ill tell you right now the whole story was bs. Sosus (Now IUSS) Is alot better at finding submarines than you would think for a 50 year old system. Top that off with how we spread our subs and such around, means the russians cant fart with out us knowing about it. Even with the guys from 09. Who really thinks that they went unlocated all the way to the east coast?

10/14/2012 7:35 PM

 

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