Keeping the blogosphere posted on the goings on of the world of submarines since late 2004... and mocking and belittling general foolishness wherever it may be found. Idaho's first and foremost submarine blog. (If you don't like something on this blog, please E-mail me; don't call me at home.)

Friday, July 30, 2010

Idaho CD-1: A Bellwether For America's Future?

As the midterm elections approach, most of the talk is about whether or not the Republicans will be able to take back the House of Representatives (or even the Senate). More than that, this election seems like it will be a referendum on whether or not Constitutionalism (represented mostly by the Tea Party and Libertarians) has the strength to re-emerge as a dominant force in American politics for the first time since basically the end of the Polk Administration. I submit that the Congressional election this year in Idaho's 1st Congressional District between Democratic incumbent Rep. Walt Minnick and Republican challenger Rep. Raul Labrador is a key battle between those who seek to return American political philosophy to the Jacksonian era and those who prefer a more modern interpretation of the Constitution. Basically, if the Paulites and their ilk can't win here, it's unlikely they'll be able to ever emerge as more than an occasionally humorous sideshow to the main ebb and flow of the American body politic.

Idaho is a very conservative state (Sen. McCain got 61.3% of the vote in 2008, even higher in the 1st District); the only reasons that Walt Minnick was able to win in 2008 is that 1) he's a fiscally conservative social moderate who would be a Republican in most other states, and 2) his opponent in 2008, then-Rep. Bill Sali, was a complete buffoon. This year, however, adds the dynamics that most of the 1st District electorate has been fairly unhappy with President Obama's policies, and the Republican nominee is a perfectly normal person. However, in coming from behind to win the Republican primary against an establishment candidate with one of the worst-run campaigns in modern history, Rep. Labrador had to position himself pretty far to the right -- well into the territory being staked out by the Tea Party.

Rep. Labrador, knowing that he really can't attack Rep. Minnick on his record (Minnick was the only Democrat to receive the endorsement of the Tea Party Express, although Minnick later rejected the endorsement), seems to be running the campaign as a referendum on Speaker Pelosi. I'm not really sure that's going to resonate among the vast majority of voters here in Western Idaho, but it's probably his best shot. Unlike other districts where there might be 35% of the electorate who will always cast their ballots for one party or the other with the opponents fighting for the middle 30%, this district seems to have about a 45-25 split favoring the Republicans (the 49% Sali got in 2006 and 2008 seems to be a floor). Most of the "Pelosi Bad, Boehner Good" voters are included in the already-locked-in 45%, so Labrador needs to focus on winning 5% of the "floating" 30% of the electorate to win. Currently, Minnick is up in the polls, and has about a 16:1 advantage in cash on hand.

This money will enable Rep. Minnick to use Rep. Labrador's own stated positions against him, with little opportunity for Labrador to respond. Examples of Rep. Labrador's positions beloved by the Tea Party but unlikely to find favor with the broader electorate include:

1) Repeal the 17th Amendment (also known as the "Sell Idaho's Senate Seat to whichever company can give the highest paid 'consulting' jobs to the wives of 53 Idaho lawmakers" plank);

2) Return to the Gold Standard (aka the "Give all our gold to China when they cash in their Treasury Bonds" philosophy);

3) Withdraw the U.S. from the United Nations (or the "Look how well our decision not to join the League of Nations worked out" plank);

4) "Publish all campaign donations on your website, including date, name of parent organization as well as the donating entity, and the amount of the donation". (Actually, Idaho voters will probably like that pledge; the problem is, Labrador isn't fulfilling it; his webpage contains no such information. I'm sure he'll say that his "pledge" only takes effect if he wins.)
Here's the deal. The May primary election showed that only about 7-10% of the electorate really supports the extreme Paulite/Tea Party positions (based on the clearly "Constitutionalist" candidates for Governor and the 2nd District Congressional races getting only about 25% of the vote with 30% turnout, in an election where the Constitutionalists would seemingly be much more motivated to vote than the general public). They think there are more of themselves because they're loud, and they mostly hang out with themselves, creating a self-perpetuating fantasy that most people agree with them (or would, if only their voices weren't censored by the mainstream media).

Basically, it comes down to this -- if the Constitutionalists have any hope of becoming a real political force in this country, they need to win this election. This would be the one to win, since they have a personable candidate (one whom I happen to think doesn't actually believe in all these extreme positions he's officially supporting, based on no real data except for one meeting) and a district that reflexively tends to vote for anyone with an "R" after their name. Unfortunately for them, since their actual political views aren't supported by the vast majority of the "floating middle" (or the political elite who give actual money to candidates), they aren't that likely to do so. The Minnick campaign, I'm sure, wants a race where voters get a chance to compare Minnick's experience as a businessman, a veteran and a bipartisan problem-solver to Labrador's record as an attorney and politician; if they can define the campaign that way, they'll probably win. It'll be an interesting 3+ months until November 2nd.

45 Comments:

Blogger Jay said...

I find it amazing that you suggest that selling senate seats to the highest bidder would somehow be worse than what we have now.

Beyond that, however, you are correct, I think, in pointing out that if a Republican can't get a win in Idaho, then the Tea Party effect is probably overstated.

But, as you also correctly point out, voters in Idaho are disgusted with the profligacy, general incompetence, and disregard of the people's will shown by the Obama/Pelosi/Reid cabal. There are dsitricts where the Dem representative may truly be a republican in philosophy, but, the problem is their "conscience" votes aren't stopping their far-Left leadership's agenda, because they helped elect that leadership.

So, unless Walt Minnick is going to state publicly that he will support Republican's for leadership positions (i.e. people who hold the same views as him), he is just as bad as Barney Frank. That's the argument a candidate like Labrador has to make, because that is the truth. Minnick gets to play the role of "principled" Democrat Conservative because Nancy Pelosi has all the votes she needs on nearly every piece of legislation, freeing him up to vote as his constituents expect except on the ONE vote that for him has any significance (and would truly be a "conscience" vote) - the vote for Speaker.

Now, Minnick could argue that in a much narrower Congress, his vote representing Idaho-1 will mean something, which it may, but the odds are good that the 30-60 seats the GOP picks up are coming from guys like Minnick, not guys like Alan Grayson, so Minnick's individual vote on a particular issue is not that damn important.

7/30/2010 12:32 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If Minnick voted for Pelosi as Speaker, he has zero credibility and should be tossed. End of discussion.

7/30/2010 2:14 PM

 
Blogger wtfdnucsailor said...

A great democrat (Tip O'Neill) madet the profound statement that "All politics is local." and if Rep Minnick is effective in responding to his constituents when asked and takes positions that the great majority of the voters in his district agree with then there is little reason to "throw the bum out" unless the sole reason is the D after his name.

Joel is correct that this is a good test of the "tea party" movement. One of the things I like about the Democratic party is its ability to house both the flaming liberals like Barney Frank, and the fiscal conservatives like a Blanche Lincoln or Ben Nelson. I wish Congressman Minnick the best of luck on NOV 2.

7/30/2010 8:16 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I wish Congressman Minnick the best of luck on NOV 2.

Me too - as long as his luck includes having to look for a new job as a common thief outside of congress.

7/30/2010 9:10 PM

 
Anonymous NHSparky said...

I think you're making a BIG overgeneralizing statement, Joel--the Ronulans are not running the Tea Party, although there are some of their number among them. Something like over 40 percent of the TP folks identify themselves as either Democrats or Independents. While there are a few folks who got caught up in it (and it may well bite the GOP and the TP in the ass come November--think Sharon Angle), Paul is not, never was, never will be, anything more than a curiosity outside the 14th CD of Texas. I had to listen to that squeaky little voice for I don't know how long leading up to the NH primary in 2008, along with the squeaky little voices of all his idiot followers. The mouse that roared, is all it was. Sound and fury, signifying nothing, so to speak.

The Tea Party has a lot of good ideas, but they should have never endorsed or pushed for particular candidates until they had established a firm identity, and frankly, a year wasn't enough time. But even in places like here with virtually NO Tea Party movement, the backlash against Democrats is big, and growing bigger--witness Senator Brown down south, and the fact that my current Congresscritter (Shea-Pelosi, NH-1) can't poll above 35 percent against ANY GOP candidate. Sure, lots of Dems will keep their seats, but a lot of them won't--and some of those are in supposedly "safe" districts.

7/30/2010 10:02 PM

 
Blogger Bubblehead said...

I was trying not to conflate the Tea Party and the Paulites, other than that both are Constitutionalists. I recognize that the Paulite Libertarians are more likely to be anti-war and socially "permissive", while the Tea Party adds the social conservatism. Here in Idaho, the two groups have had some conflict (pro-marijuana legalization Ronulans running for Committee slots against Tea Party types). My aim in combining the two groups was to highlight their link as strict Constitutionalists.

7/30/2010 11:00 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Christ on a stick, Joel, just run for office already. You obviously have the interest, and you've nuked-out all the dynamics, just raise your flag and see who salutes.

7/31/2010 12:46 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As an addendum to my 12:46AM anon post, subbasket, I'm looking in your direction. The roles of the wife are many, but one of the main roles is to push her husband in the direction she knows he is dreaming of. Get to work, lady. Respect intended...

7/31/2010 12:54 AM

 
Anonymous NHSparky said...

I'll go even one further than that, Joel. The Ronulans like to CLAIM they're "strict Constitutionalists", when in fact they're about as ignorant of American history and the Constitution as all those others they deride.

Those outside his clique see him as feeding red meat to his followers with his "plans", but knowing full well he hasn't the plan, the authority, or the stones to even TRY to implement even the most basic of his ideas, like abolishing the IRS, etc., not to mention his incredible hypocrisy about being "small government" when he's one of the worst offenders when it comes to earmarks. Not exactly in keeping with his message. One would hope the average voter would be smart enough to see through the "Constitutionalist" claim.

7/31/2010 6:17 AM

 
Blogger Dave in St. Louis said...

I find it troubling that you, Joel, as an ex-military officer - who swore to support and defend the Constitution of the United States, can so easily and roundly denigrate those out in civilian life who want to do the same.

EVERYONE should be a "Constitutionalist."

BTW, NHSparky, I realize that Taxxachusetts is south of you, but it is disingenuous to say that Senator Brown is from "down south."

7/31/2010 8:08 AM

 
Blogger Bubblehead said...

I do support and defend the Constitution. The Constitution gives judicial power to a Supreme Court, which means they're the sole source to officially interpret the Constitution. If the Supreme Court rules that actions of Congress are Constitutional, then I'll accept that, even if I might not agree. I believe that supporting and defending the Constitution means supporting and defending the whole thing, not just the parts I like. (Also, judicial review came about when the Founding Fathers were still in power, and they could have easily amended the Constitution to eliminate if had they not agreed with Marshall's reasoning in Marbury v. Madison. They didn't, indicated to me that they supported the concept.) Therefore, I'm OK with the Government giving out "veterans benefits" even though the word "veterans" is never mentioned in the Constitution.

7/31/2010 8:54 AM

 
Anonymous MenatlJim said...

nhsparky, your comment about earmarks displays either your bias, your ignorance, or both. Earmarks do not generate any spending on their own - they direct how money should be spent. I think all money spent by the government should be earmarked. We elect our representatives to spend out money and they are in theory accountable to us. When nameless faceless bureaucrat decide how to spend the money that the government has borrowed in our name. Earmarks do not make the government bigger - they make it more likely that the government can be held accountable for its actions.

7/31/2010 9:15 AM

 
Anonymous MentalJim said...

sparky, I will agree with your sentiment that a lot (most?) of Ron Paul's ideas are not practical. I agree in principle with a lot that he says, but the mechanics of actually instituting his ideas make them virtually irrelevant at this time.

The IRS is not a good example though. It serves no real purpose other than redistribute wealth. The revenue taken in by the IRS essentially just pays the interest on the debt. It doesn't really pay for any actual government service - that is all being done through borrowing.

7/31/2010 9:20 AM

 
Blogger Dave in St. Louis said...

And yet the Supreme Court is fallible. And political.

I point you at Dred Scott vs Sandford and Plessy vs Ferguson for examples.

"Constitutionalists" may not have all their ducks in a row, but at least they believe IN the Constitution. You should be over there fine-tuning what they've got wrong - and making it right - instead of fighting them.

I hate to say this, but guys like the Honorable Walt Minnick betray everything they supposedly stand for when they vote for the likes of the Honorable Nancy Pelosi as their Speaker.

7/31/2010 12:26 PM

 
Blogger Bubblehead said...

Yes, the Supreme Court gets it wrong, so we can work through the political system to elect Presidents and Senators to confirm Supreme Court justices who will make different rulings; maybe that's not ideal, but it is the only real way human nature would allow it to work. I'm opposed to Constitutionalists who call for a "2nd Amendment solution" because they don't think that some program is specifically covered by the Constitution. (Interestingly, they frequently come up with their own clever ways of "finding" justification for the things they like, e.g. "appropriating money for the Louisiana Purchase".)

7/31/2010 12:32 PM

 
Blogger Bubblehead said...

Actually, I should expand on my last answer. Yes, I believe that the Constitution does give the government the power to do a lot of things they're doing now; I guess I agree more with Hamilton and the Adams' than with Jefferson and Jackson in that regard (although Jefferson was able to work around his principles, as in the case with the aforementioned Louisiana Purchase appropriation). The Constitution is not a suicide pact; personally, I think of it more as a pact between the People and the Federal Government, rather than as a framework for an agreement between states. (It starts off "We the People", not "We the States".) I recognize there are those who would disagree, and they have a good argument.

The Supreme Court clearly makes errors, but I think by and large they've done a pretty good job (1840-1900 notwithstanding). One of the most important recent decisions, for instance (Bush v. Gore, 2000), I think was wrong Constitutionally, but needed to be done because of what would have happened otherwise. Likewise, I personally don't think the Individual Mandate in HCR is Constitutional (I liken it to the government forcing citizens to buy carbon credits from Al Gore's company for exhaling CO2), but I'm hoping it'll get upheld, because otherwise we'll end up eventually with Single Payer, which I think is Constitutional. One shouldn't drive the country into the ground by blind adherence to philosophy (like the "sound money" people would want to do); I think the strict Constitutionalists would do that if given absolute power. We live in the real world, not some academic think tank.

7/31/2010 1:32 PM

 
Anonymous NHSparky said...

Negative, MenatlJim. Earmarks (aka PORK) is spending outside the normal appropriations process, as you well know. It's amazing how Paul can claim he's a "small government" guy based on his voting against most spending bills, yet allows hundreds of millions in earmarks (shrimp, anyone?) past his desk. Then, when he votes against the bill, knowing full well it's going to pass anyway, he can say, "Well gee--at least I tried!"

Put it this way--were it such vital spending, why isn't it approved via the normal appropriation process?

Frankly, most of the so-called, "Constitutionalists" I've encountered have only the most rudimentary knowledge of how government works, how the economy works, and how they relate. What they want SOUNDS good up front, but in reality is akin to slamming a car going 100 mph into reverse--sure, it'll stop--FOR GOOD.

7/31/2010 2:03 PM

 
Anonymous Mentaljim said...

Sparky, I'll just agree to disagree with you I guess. My point is that all spending should be earmarked.

Joel, you say that proponents of sound money would drive the country into the ground, but it's clear that the very opposite has actually happened. We have been driven into the ground by the abandonment of sound money. Look at all the debt since Nixon cut the last ties with any type of gold standard. We are racing towards a cliff and our 'leaders' just keep pressing down harder and harder on the gas pedal. I'd rather try to tackle the problem on our terms and not wait for some type of collapse to occur.

7/31/2010 6:32 PM

 
Blogger Bubblehead said...

The Gold Standard may have worked when everyone else was on it, but now... it just wouldn't. Imagine you're an international banker who wants to put your money into currency. Which will you choose? Obviously, the one backed by gold that will likely deflate. There's more money out of circulation. (And since the entire world supply of gold is only worth about $4.5 trillion, there's a much smaller pot of money to start with.) People we buy oil from feel the same way -- it's better to hold onto the dollars we use to buy oil than to buy stuff back from us. More money out of circulation. Then, suppose China cashes in their Treasury bonds, and wants their gold (remember, Gold Standard means full convertibility). There goes most of the rest of our gold -- and we have no way to print any more money. We're reduced to a bartering society. Maybe fine for the 1830s, but it's hard to buy raw materials from across the country if you have to ship potatoes back to pay for it. Anyway, a quick study of history (Panic of 1873, for example) will show that the Gold Standard didn't even necessarily work when the whole world was on it.

7/31/2010 7:02 PM

 
Anonymous PortTackStart said...

All this argument about what kind of monetary standard and whether consitutionialism is any better than radical progressivism seems a little like trying to treat the flu with some motrin (and/or footpowder).

The closest thing we have to a so-called existential threat right now is our $13,200,000,000,000 debt and the projected $1,500,000,000,000 deficits we're going to be running. And the deficits being run by states like California, New York, and Illinois. If major cities go insolvent, and major states can't bail 'em out because they're broke, and the federal government can't help the states without printing lots and lots more money...what happens then?

That's what my interpretation of this whole Tea Party phenomenon is about. A critical mass of people realized that at some point in the near future, unless things change, bad stuff will happen. So to stop this, our fiscal house needs to get put in order: we need to spend less. To do that, we need to reduce the size of the government. I think that's about as good as you can get for a specific Tea Party platform...any closer and you start projecting your own biases into the Tea Party platform.

Joel, for example, you seem to associate the Tea Party with a fringe Libertarian ideology and use that as the basis for what you consider the Tea Party platform. Some of them are just like you say, so I'm sure you can pull out plenty of quotes and references to support your side. Me, I believe they are far more centrist. More towards limiting the federal gov't by promoting individualism in society rather than dependence on social nets, the idea that it's ok to try and fail and get back up and try again without having your hand held by a commiserating Uncle Sam, so we can reform (cut back) the more expensive ones...while also moving back towards giving states more autonomy to allow for more dynamic, local control (but not in the extreme strict-constitutionalist fashion).

But who knows? maybe the Tea Party in Idaho CD-1 is exactly like you say, and in my area it's exactly like I say? That's what I enjoy about watching this whole thing, it truly is a local phenomenon. Where politics was generally very black and white (R or D) with the occasional tweener fiscally conservative D or socially liberal R, the Tea Party is really just a bunch of people saying "hey! stop spending so much money!" and then giving ideas on how to do that that are all over the spectrum. Or at least giving feedback to the political class on what they don't like. Despite what some want to believe, there is really no national Tea Party org that's in charge of any sort of platform, it's all just local chapters.

7/31/2010 11:19 PM

 
Anonymous PortTackStart said...

All this argument about what kind of monetary standard and whether consitutionialism is any better than radical progressivism seems a little like trying to treat the flu with some motrin (and/or footpowder).

The closest thing we have to a so-called existential threat right now is our $13,200,000,000,000 debt and the projected $1,500,000,000,000 deficits we're going to be running. And the deficits being run by states like California, New York, and Illinois. If major cities go insolvent, and major states can't bail 'em out because they're broke, and the federal government can't help the states without printing lots and lots more money...what happens then?

That's what my interpretation of this whole Tea Party phenomenon is about. A critical mass of people realized that at some point in the near future, unless things change, bad stuff will happen. So to stop this, our fiscal house needs to get put in order: we need to spend less. To do that, we need to reduce the size of the government. I think that's about as good as you can get for a specific Tea Party platform...any closer and you start projecting your own biases into the Tea Party platform.

Joel, for example, you seem to associate the Tea Party with a fringe Libertarian ideology and use that as the basis for what you consider the Tea Party platform. Some of them are just like you say, so I'm sure you can pull out plenty of quotes and references to support your side. Me, I believe they are far more centrist. More towards limiting the federal gov't by promoting individualism in society rather than dependence on social nets, the idea that it's ok to try and fail and get back up and try again without having your hand held by a commiserating Uncle Sam, so we can reform (cut back) the more expensive ones...while also moving back towards giving states more autonomy to allow for more dynamic, local control (but not in the extreme strict-constitutionalist fashion).

But who knows? maybe the Tea Party in Idaho CD-1 is exactly like you say, and in my area it's exactly like I say? That's what I enjoy about watching this whole thing, it truly is a local phenomenon. Where politics was generally very black and white (R or D) with the occasional tweener fiscally conservative D or socially liberal R, the Tea Party is really just a bunch of people saying "hey! stop spending so much money!" and then giving ideas on how to do that that are all over the spectrum. Or at least giving feedback to the political class on what they don't like. Despite what some want to believe, there is really no national Tea Party org that's in charge of any sort of platform, it's all just local chapters.

7/31/2010 11:19 PM

 
Anonymous PortTackStart said...

Hah, and Google said the comment was too big to process. Looks like it managed to take it all...TWICE!

7/31/2010 11:21 PM

 
Anonymous MentalJim said...

porttackstart: I don't think it is matter of if major cities will go bankrupt (and states)...it's just a matter of when.

8/01/2010 6:27 AM

 
Anonymous NHSparky said...

I'd say that so far in the thread, PortTackStart at least has the closest description of what the Tea Party started out being--and Joel, he is right on one thing--what I see up here in NH may be very different than what I may see somewhere more conservative (or more liberal), but the one thing that really holds all these groups together is the fiscal irresponsibility of our elected officials on ALL levels. CA is about to go bankrupt. NY can't raise taxes fast enough--ditto Illinois--despite the fact that there are loads of public employees who are guaranteed over $100K/yr retirement pensions. Unfunded liabilities are what's REALLY going to break the bank sooner versus later. And as far as spending at the federal level, don't get me started on the appropriations process and how screwed up it is--sorry, but you cannot justify pork as a means of returning tax dollars back to a district. How about NOT spending those dollars, keeping tax rates down, and keeping the money in the district in the first place?

8/01/2010 7:18 AM

 
Blogger Bubblehead said...

Exactly! The argument that "government spending is out of control and the deficit is a huge danger, so we should cut these programs and avoid raising taxes because that would do more harm to the economy" are perfectly legitimate arguments, and were the Constitutionalists making these arguments, I'd say more power to them. Instead, we mostly get things like "Medicare isn't authorized by the Constitution, even though court cases for 45 years have said it is, because the Founding Fathers didn't specifically mention it", which really doesn't do any good. I'm suggesting they spend their time trying to do what is possible in the real world. Instead, you get questionnaires from organizations like Tea Party Boise (linked in the main article) that goes of into lots of strange tangents that, if implemented, would almost unarguably make the country worse off.

8/01/2010 8:36 PM

 
Blogger Dave in St. Louis said...

Joel,

If you think that the Tea Party is more about whether or not Medicare (disclaimer, I am currently ON Medicare having been on SSDI due to cancer for more than two years) is Constitutionally authorized than out of control Federal Spending, then you either are believing the lies of the media or you have a FAR different Tea Party out in Boise than we have here in St. Louis.

Note: I would have replied sooner, but I've been away in DC for two plus days getting an experimental treatment at NIH/NCI across the street from Bethesda Navy Medical Center and access to the Internet has been limited.

8/03/2010 7:34 PM

 
Anonymous T said...

The Tea party to me seems hilariously hypocritical. For example, you are against federal spending but presumably not Medicare. Well, to balance the budget there's only really a few programs that really matter a lot.

1) Fix medicare spending either through HCR of some sort and/or slashing medicare
2) Social Security - raising age/slashing payments
3) Slash Military budget
4) Raise Taxes

Some form of all of this stuff needs to be done to fix the budget. That's just the way it is. Pretty much everything else is rounding error. Unfortunately, most of that platform is completely unpalatable to the tea party.

8/04/2010 12:22 AM

 
Anonymous T said...

The Tea party to me seems hilariously hypocritical. For example, you are against federal spending but presumably not Medicare. Well, to balance the budget there's only really a few programs that really matter a lot.

1) Fix medicare spending either through HCR of some sort and/or slashing medicare
2) Social Security - raising age/slashing payments
3) Slash Military budget
4) Raise Taxes

Some form of all of this stuff needs to be done to fix the budget. That's just the way it is. Pretty much everything else is rounding error. Unfortunately, most of that platform is completely unpalatable to the tea party.

8/04/2010 12:22 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It was a wake-up call to me when I sat with my family in SD and saw the parade of private ships during the "Parade of Lights". We saw a few modest sailboats go by with their impressive displays and were happy to see them, but when the 100'+ yachts came by with their conspicuous display of wealth (helipad included) came by, my kids said "what do they need all of that for?" , it hit home.

I'm all for working hard and doing well, but at some point I think we need to say "you've obviously done well and can afford to pay additional taxes".

8/04/2010 1:24 AM

 
Blogger Dave in St. Louis said...

t,

What about the bailouts of Chrysler and GM? What about Cash-for-Clunkers?

8/04/2010 9:01 AM

 
Anonymous NHSparky said...

Anon @ 1:24 am--You mean like John "Did you know I was in Vietnam?" Kerry and his $7M yacht that he was keeping in RI to avoid MA taxes? Actually, there comes a point where government has become large enough, not that we make too much. Of course, by liberal standards, I am "rich", even though I don't make $250K a year. I mean, I must be--I have over 40 percent of my pay confiscated by some level of government.

The American Revolution was started in large part because of taxation without representation; in their case, a 10 percent tax on tea. Yes, you read that correctly--TEN PERCENT. Now, as you pay your federal taxes at a marginal rate of at least 31 percent, SSI/Medicare of 15.3 percent, (remember, your employer matches your 7.65 percent), state income taxes, property taxes, vehicle taxes, sales taxes, gas taxes, etc., etc., etc...get the idea?

And when's the last time a poor person signed your paycheck? You do realize that when you tax the rich at a grossly disproportionate level (as we are rapidly approaching) their incentive to perform decreases, and that money never enters the economy. Is it any coincidence that after the tax cuts of Kennedy, Reagan, and Bush, the economy boomed, unemployment shrank drastically, and revenues to the government increased?

I'd say if the results from the primaries last night (particularly Missouri's) are any indication of the direction of the country, the Democrats are in for a VERY bad November, with or without the influence of the Tea Party.

8/04/2010 9:26 AM

 
Anonymous T said...

Dave in St. Louis: Cash for clunkers and the Auto bailouts are chump change in terms of balancing the budget. 1) The government may end up actually making money on the auto bailout and 2) Cash for clunkers was like.... $10 billion total? It's a lot of money, but compared to the $1 trillion deficit, it's barely even a rounding error.

Nhsparky:

While there's basically no doubt that the dems will lose seats in 2010, I don't think it will be as bad as some are predicting due to crappy tea party candidates and think that come 2011, there will still be a democratic majority in the senate and the house.

For proof of this, look at Nevada. 3 months ago Harry Reid looked like a dead man walking. One loony tea party candidate later and it's starting to look like Harry Reid is going to be back for 6 more years.

8/04/2010 10:59 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sparky, I made the comment about the ridiculously rich paying extra taxes, and I'm not a Dem by any stretch of the imagination. I guess I just see people trying way too hard to show how rich they are and I'd like to remind them that they are being dickbags.

Michelle Obama flying her closest 60 friends to Spain for vaca is exactly the type of ridiculous displays of wealth that I hate. Especially when I am paying for it.

8/06/2010 12:03 AM

 
Blogger Dave in St. Louis said...

t,

So we can't start with the cheap and easy stuff?

8/06/2010 9:52 AM

 
Anonymous T said...

Dave:

Sure you can, and I'm not going to argue that some of the small stuff should not be fixed, it's just, if you're serious about fixing the budget, you have to be serious about HCR, Social Security Reform, cutting the defense budget, and finding a way to raise more tax revenue. You can get part of the way there with other stuff, but I don't think it's realistic to think you're going to gut every other program and save the rest. Particularly defense, which I actually think SHOULD be decreased. The amount we spend is just crazy compared to the rest of the world.

8/06/2010 8:03 PM

 
Anonymous NHSparky said...

t, a lot of Angle's decline in the polls was due to $11 million in advertising paid for by big pharma, et al. And yet even so, Reid can't get above 45 percent in the polls. That's NEVER a good sign if you're the incumbent. Look for those numbers to change.

Secondly, look at the primary results so far this year. It's a bloodbath for Dems and their policies. Just this past Tuesday the voters in Missouri (which McCain only won by a 50-49 margin) absolutely handed the Dems their heads on a plate. Carnahan won the Dem primary with 270K votes in a 3-way race. Blunt won the GOP primary with 430K votes in an 8-way race. There were 537 Democrats running for state, local, and county offices. 355 of the incumbents were voted OUT. Of the 43 Democrats who ran unopposed, 19 of them received NO votes. None of the GOP candidates running unopposed received zero votes.

Here in NH, while independents are the largest voter group, Democrats outnumber Republicans by a 3-2 margin. Yet despite all that, over 350 candidates filed for the Legislature as GOP versus 250 Democrat--meaning that it's almost a virtual certainty the state legislature will be going back to GOP hands in November. None of the Democrats running for Congress or our open Senate seat are polling above 40 percent. These are just a few of the things we're seeing SO FAR this year.

So before you declare the Dems as safe this year, keep in mind that 1--they're not, 2--the Tea Party might have SOME to do with it, but not even close to all.

8/07/2010 11:04 PM

 
Anonymous T said...

1) I stand by this: Reid will beat Angle. Period. She's absolutely a terrible candidate. Her views are so far out of right field, it's amazing. She's almost as bad a pick as Alvin Greene in SC. I don't see a future where she can pick up more independents. Basically everything she says alienates somebody. And she runs from the press. If she wins, I'll be shocked. A middle of the road GOP candidate would've taken down Reid in a landslide. As it is, he's up 5 points. It's only a testament to the times we live in that she's even considered a semi-viable candidate.

2) I'm not sure how one loses in the primaries? I assume you're talking about voter turnout... but... so? That doesn't necessarily mean anything.

3) Again, the Dems will lose seats. I don't contest that. I just think those of you hailing the second coming of the extreme right are getting a bit ahead of yourselves. Republicans might manage a narrow majority in the house, but a majority in the Senate is going to be a stretch. Of course, the Senate is so dysfunctional, I'm not sure that it even matters who's in charge...

I think that most of the tea party candidates will be bad for this country if they win. Voters might be mad now, but they don't want to be governed by fringe conspiracy theorists in the long term.

If the republican party actually does achieve a majority I think we're all screwed and so are they. If they win a majority, I don't think your tea party candidates will be able to enact even a third of their ridiculous policy goals, to include HCR repeal, more tax cuts, deficit reduction, 14th amendment revision, etc. But I do think they will continue to try to block unemployment relief and job creation bills. Somehow, I don't think that's a recipe for success in 2012.

8/08/2010 4:58 PM

 
Anonymous Joe Alferio said...

In regards to taxation:

During the Revolutionary War, Benjamin Franklin served in Paris as our liason with the French. He took his grandson, Temple Franklin, as his personal secretary. (OBTW, I'm pretty sure that this IS the Temple that Temple University is named after).

Anyway, soon after arrival Benjamin presented his bonafides to the King. Curious as to his response, Ben kept a close eye on Temple as they walked through the gilded halls of Versailles. From Temple, there was no reaction.

After they returned to there lodgings, Benjamin asked Temple what he thought of the Palace.

Temple replied,

"I think that if we had even a small part of the wealth hanging on the walls of Versailles, we could pay for an Army that would have no trouble beating the British."

Joe Alferio

8/09/2010 7:53 AM

 
Anonymous NHSparky said...

t--therein lies your GCE, minus 10 points. The Tea Party is NOT, wasn't intended to be, nor will it ever be, a "fringe" party like the Libertarians, Constitutionalist Party, Greens, etc. Look at the makeup--40 percent independents and Democrats. Fringe? Really? And while Reid may (and I emphasize MAY win), the point is made, and is being made in races all over the country--the liberal agenda is NOT what we want.

8/09/2010 8:03 AM

 
Anonymous Joe Alferio said...

Further research has me convinced that Temple University is not related to Temple Franklin. However, I do find it fascinating that Temple Franklin was the only son of William Franklin, the last colonial governor of New Jersey and Ben Franklin's son.

Joe Alferio

8/09/2010 10:52 AM

 
Anonymous T said...

Tea Party may not be a "fringe" party, but many of the candidates they've put for office have fringe beliefs. I submit to you a few examples: Any birther (a fairly large number of tea party candidates), Sharron Angle, and Rand Paul. There's probably others. There's also some that are vaguely normal.

Anyway, I don't think any of us can truly predict the elections, but I think we should make a gentleman's wager and bookmark this thread, coming back in November to say SEE I TOLD YOU SO.

My predictions:
- Harry Reid beats Angle by >5 points
- Dems maintain narrower lead in senate (~53-55 seats)
- Dems Maintain narrow lead in House (~225 seats)
- HCR does not get repealed
- No energy Bill in 2010, lame duck or otherwise.

8/09/2010 9:42 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

T, let's be realistic. Obama tries his August surprise which results in millions of people who should have never gotten a mortgage in the first place, getting a bailout. The people revolt, and in November, Pelosi gets her dick slapped and the House goes to 220R/211D. Senate goes 53D/47R with full-on filibuster in place.

B.H.O. will be lucky to survive his first term in office, let alone run for another term.

8/10/2010 12:35 AM

 
Anonymous Joe Alferio said...

To Anonymous:

OK, what do you mean by "B.H.O. will be lucky to survive his first term in office, let alone run for another term."?

Joe Alferio

8/10/2010 5:44 AM

 
Anonymous T said...

anon @ 12:48

We will see. Though I think the republicans' strategy of 1) filibuster everything while the country goes to shit and then 2) blame the other guy is both deplorable and transparent. The only big proposal they've had lately is Paul Ryan's massive giveaway to the wealthy. Wow, color me unimpressed.

More Republican wealthy/business protectionism wrapped in faux-populism and faux-fiscal responsibility. I voted R in every election up until 2008. Seeing what I'm seeing now, it will be a long time before I consider voting R again.

My latest favorite Repub quote come from senator Johanns of Nebraska who was protesting about the state bailout bill because he didn't think it was fair for "Nebraskans tax dollars to be spread around to other states". That's funny, because NE has been on the federal dole for years, receiving an average of 1.1 dollars in allotments for every federal tax dollar collected. In essence, NY, NJ, CA, and other financially strapped states have been bailing NE out for years, but of course, a hypocritical Republican doesn't want to give any other state the same benefit they've had for years.

8/10/2010 6:12 AM

 
Anonymous NHSparky said...

"Though I think the republicans' strategy of 1) filibuster everything while the country goes to shit and then 2) blame the other guy is both deplorable and transparent."

You mean just like what the Democrats have been playing for the past two years, with, "Bush's fault", "inherited", "record deficits" (although you don't hear that last one so much anymore, do ya?)

I also seem to recall the Democrats filibustering most of Bush's judicial and other nominees (Miguel Estrada, John Bolton, etc.), but when it comes to be their turn in power, they don't like it when the shit comes flying back at them, now do they?

My predictions:
--Difference between Angle and Reid (not making call as to who wins) is under 4 percent either way.
--GOP takes over House 224/211
--Senate stays in Dem hands, but barely at 50/48/2 (although Sanders and Lieberman caucus with the Democrats, so we'll call it 52/48.)
--Republicans take over majority of governorships.
--Republicans take over majority of state houses (especially important in states which gain EC votes.)
--Obama's approval rating never gets above 50 percent (I'll go even further and say that after the tax increases take effect next year he'll never see above 40 percent after March of 2011.)
--Major portions of the HCR will be ruled unconstitutional and by 2012 a majority of states will "opt out".
--Any lame duck issues passed between November and January will be repealed and will lead to even greater Dem losses in 2012.

8/10/2010 10:38 AM

 

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