"There Are No Atheists In Foxholes"
There's no new submarine news, and I've run out of unclassified sea stories, so here's a story about a Catholic priest celebrating Mass underway on USS Missouri (SSN 780).
Services on board submarines are regularly provided by lay leaders. Hoar added that lay leaders play a pivotal religious role to submariners.How did you take care of your religious needs when underway?
"As members of the military we do our jobs daily, but on Sundays we have the opportunity to gather and pray together," said Roa. "It meant a lot to me to have a Catholic priest on board."
posted by Bubblehead at 2:07 PM
75 Comments:
No new stories...How is that possible?!
3/24/2012 2:10 PM
Well, there's a story about Israel ordering another submarine from Germany, and India about to get a leased Akula-II from Russia, and a Brit submariner getting a posthumous George Medal, but not much about American submarines in the news. Which is a good thing, in almost all cases.
3/24/2012 2:17 PM
While the priest story is somewhat incredulous (if there were ever any "lay leaders" on SSNs with which I am familiar, they never conducted a religious service and were never identified to the rest of the crew), there IS actually some submarine news that may be of interest to many TSSP readers who comment regularly, however.
A new submarine book seeks to give enlisted submariners their due. New submarine book is eagerly awaited.
3/24/2012 5:19 PM
"How did you take care of your religious needs when underway?"
Man, that's a loaded question!
The answer: In the time machine with a sock named Trixie!
Our Lay Leaders are always listed in the POD.
3/24/2012 5:53 PM
I was the protestant lay leader on the last 4 of my 5 boats and attended services on my first boat regularly. We had regular Sunday services, the Eucharist was prepared by priests in advance, by catholic priests for the catholic group and an Episcopal priest did it for the Protestants. When in port, we took advantage of local church services. We often hooked up with Missionaries in the ports we visited and went to their church. In Toulan, there was an Americian “Baptist Missionary” to the French sailors that took us in. We found out while visiting his home after church that their son was at USNA and later I found out he went through the nuke program and onto subs.
As lay leader I sent much time helping anyone that needed assistance in the religious realm. I assisted an Orthodox Jew insuring his dietary needs were meet as best as possible. I helped a Muslim rider from the Rota pool of CT’s, Latter Day Saints and several varieties of Protestant and Catholic groups. Religious folks often got a bad rap because of the assholes that took advantage of the their religious rights to get out of work, I’m sure everyone of you know the ones that had to get relieved for services, but would not spend any off time going to the same services. Don’t knock what the lay leaders typically do on the boats. They give a lot of their own time to attend training so that they could volunteer to help their shipmates.
If you didn’t have a lay leader on your boat I’m sorry to hear that. It is just another sign of where our PC boats are going.
Math Teacher Upstate NY
EMCS/SS Retired
3/24/2012 8:04 PM
http://marshill.com/2010/05/05/mission-critical-the-military-and-mars-hill/
Sends awesome free christian resources. =)
3/24/2012 8:13 PM
It is just another sign of where our PC boats are going.
No, it's just a sign that nobody on that ship gave a crap enough to be lay leader.
Quit blaming everything on the PC boogeyman.
3/24/2012 9:02 PM
Was DD a lay leader?
Floriduh Gold, 97/98. We take the
boat from the Blue after their CO is shyt-canned. We get u/w and Group 9 Chaplain is riding a 70 something day door to door npeb run to see if we have "issues" also. He was a great guy and the crew took him under the wing and he had a great patrol. A couple of enterprising M-divers cut up a set of gold dolphins and brazed in a small cross in the center and the CO presented them to him with a patrol pin.
The rule was, he could only wear them on the boat.
hagar
3/24/2012 10:17 PM
Submarine history: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Laboon
Was chaplain at SubBase NLON in the '60s. The real deal.
3/25/2012 5:57 AM
Never heard of any lay leader program back in the late '80s, and never heard the term "PC" until long after that. Never had a Sunday off back then either.
3/25/2012 7:23 AM
In the early '60's, Sunday was just another day for us. As far as I can remember there were no services held by anyone.
Just an FYI: There are atheists in foxholes and submarines....
3/25/2012 8:02 AM
Anonymous said...
"While the priest story is somewhat incredulous (if there were ever any "lay leaders" on SSNs with which I am familiar, they never conducted a religious service and were never identified to the rest of the crew)"
I suspect you simply weren't paying attention. Services were conducted EVERY Sunday u/w onboard every ship and submarine I served on, as required by navy regulation 0817.
3/25/2012 8:09 AM
With the wardroom taken up with church services on Sunday morning, I couldn't get in to worship at the coffee pot. So I just headed back to the treadmill for an hour long worship service on it.
3/25/2012 8:44 AM
That ain't nothing, we had secret AA meetings on the USS Lipscomb. Remember AA is non denominational and it only works if you began to believe in a higher power.
There was three of us and we held it in the diesel room. I was the nuke, we had a first class torpedoman and a representative from the radio shack. It was regular traditional AA meetings. Read all the time from the Big Book.
Like, how many AA meetings were ever held on a submarine? I wonder if we were the first.
3/25/2012 10:09 AM
Oh there were religous programs in the early 80's. Our CO was really into God...right up until we reached Subic Bay...then he was the first on the beach.
Remember our MWR sponsored floor show at Tom Tom's and the CO sprawled out on the floor with a girl sitting on his face.
A week later he was in the Wardroom leading Big Book training.
Now that's America!
3/25/2012 10:38 AM
Since I have no religious needs, they were easy to satisfy underway.
The title phrase is incredibly offensive, by the way. It basically implies that we're a bunch of cowards who would abandon our beliefs in the face of death. The saying and its implication are both false on their faces.
3/25/2012 3:57 PM
The title is only offensive to those who are easily offended.
I also don't have any religous needs and like the other poster, used Sunday's quiet time to make peace with my wang.
And I am very much a coward....that's why I went submarines.
3/25/2012 4:46 PM
"I suspect you simply weren't paying attention. Services were conducted EVERY Sunday u/w onboard every ship and submarine I served on, as required by navy regulation 0817." - Harold @ 8:09 AM
Harold, I suspect every submarine or ship you served on was a skimmer, an SSBN, or a tender. Easy to prove me wrong: just name one SSN with Sunday services during the Nam era.
Dixon
3/25/2012 6:55 PM
Dixon, I was on Sculpin 70 westpac and services were there foe those interested.
3/25/2012 8:06 PM
כִּֽי־תַעֲבֹ֤ר בַּמַּ֙יִם֙ אִתְּךָ־אָ֔נִי וּבַנְּהָרֹ֖ות לֹ֣א יִשְׁטְפ֑וּךָ כִּֽי־תֵלֵ֤ךְ בְּמֹו־אֵשׁ֙ לֹ֣א תִכָּוֶ֔ה וְלֶהָבָ֖ה לֹ֥א תִבְעַר־בָּֽךְ׃
"When you pass through the water, I will be with you; in the rivers you shall not drown. When you walk through fire, you shall not be burned; the flames shall not consume you.:
-- Isaiah 43:2
3/25/2012 9:54 PM
As a Methodist, I just issue a light request to the Lord when I hit the rack.
1. Keep us on station.
2. Don't let us catch on fire or drown.
3. Make certain we get off the first shot once the bad guys show intent no matter how slight.
It's BEEN MY EXPERIENCE that if you ask the All Mighty for help, one way or another...you'll generally get it. Just remember to be thankful as well.
3/25/2012 10:55 PM
Guess Thresher and Scorpion must of been some of those atheist boats?
3/26/2012 3:56 AM
disgusting....
http://www.guampdn.com/article/20120323/NEWS01/120323014/BREAKING-NEWS-Sailor-arrested-alleged-child-rape
3/26/2012 3:56 AM
Details kind of scarce, but disgusting none the less.
3/26/2012 9:33 AM
I served as the Catholic Lay Leader on an SS and an SSN in the Pacific in the sixties. We had both Catholic and Protestant services every Sunday. There was even a very heavy "Lay Leader Kit" that could be used for services if desired. There were also services on the SSNS and SSBN I served in in the seventies and eighties in the Atlantic.
3/26/2012 9:44 AM
We had lay services on both of the boats I was on in the 90s. It was in the POD, and everything.
Granted, they weren't exactly well attended, but there were a few guys there.
3/26/2012 10:08 AM
One of the S-girls in Pearl Harbor around 1980 had Catholic and Protestant services underway on Sundays. The Catholic Lay Leader was an Italian guy from New Jersey--lots of fun, extremely competent, loved women. Quite the contrast when pulling into a WestPac port to see him leading the charge off the brow to the wine, women, and song.
3/26/2012 10:11 AM
I am a silent reader of this blog, but I have to chime in on this subject after reading such abhorrent posts.
Its loud-spoken submariners such as those who "pray to their wang" or have apparently served on every SS or SSN in the fleet during NAM and never saw a religious service that have unfortunately defined our force. I for one am sickened by it.
Its the silent e'er-do-wells that seem to always uphold the force and their values that sit by shaking their heads in disgust over such a vile reputation. I am sure I will be labeled as a self-righteous drone. But I am sorry, not all of us find our moral fiber in our "wang."
Every boat I have served on has had a religious service of some sort. I have not attended regularly. But I have given my respects to those who do.
To that previously served on every boat in the fleet during NAM ... I appreciate your service, but come on ... grow up already.
Still serving, proudly.
3/26/2012 2:51 PM
Καὶ μὴ κρίνετε, καὶ οὐ μὴ κριθῆτε. καὶ μὴ καταδικάζετε, καὶ οὐ μὴ καταδικασθῆτε. ἀπολύετε, καὶ ἀπολυθήσεσθε.
"Stop judging and you will not be judged. Stop condemning and you will not be condemned. Forgive and you will be forgiven."
-- Luke 6:37
3/26/2012 4:00 PM
"I am sure I will be labeled as a self-righteous drone. But I am sorry, not all of us find our moral fiber in our 'wang.'" - Anon 2:51 PM
"One of the S-girls in Pearl Harbor around 1980 had Catholic and Protestant services underway on Sundays." - Anon 10:11 AM
Above - you fail!
"We had both Catholic and Protestant services every Sunday." - wtfdnucsailor
wtfdnucsailor, great! Wonder why you fail to name the boats that held services EVERY Sunday?!
Could it be because others on those boats cannot back up your story?
Dixon
3/26/2012 7:04 PM
Did the Priest Bang a Seaman?
3/26/2012 7:28 PM
Speaking of praying, the midshipman on her knees in front of Dirty Dave wasn't exactly spitting out Hail Mary's.
3/26/2012 7:34 PM
I appreciate the fact that there is little to no moderation on the comments. It really allows us to see how butthurt some people can be on the internet.
Especially the one where Dixon asked an anonymous stranger on the internet for proof of religious services on his ship.
3/26/2012 8:29 PM
We had Protestant and Catholic services, but the Catholic service didn't have the Eucharist because somebody (a Priest, I presume) found out that they were keeping the Eucharist in a ziplock bag, and that was "unacceptable." I thought it was pretty responsible of the sailor, IMO.
3/26/2012 8:32 PM
@ anon 8:29 - dang, I was all set to flame an astonishingly pathetic douchebag, but I couldn't possibly top your understated brilliance. 'nuff said...
3/26/2012 9:03 PM
καὶ γνώσεσθε τὴν ἀλήθειαν, καὶ ἡ ἀλήθεια ἐλευθερώσει ὑμᾶς.
"...and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."
-- John 8:32
3/26/2012 9:52 PM
Speaking of truth...a final daily word for the day (redundantly speaking, of course):
"Epiousios"
"...the one who seeks, finds..."
-- The One
3/26/2012 10:17 PM
We ran Catholic and Protestant lay services (most) Sundays on the SSN I was on. They were on the POD around 0900, held in the wardroom, and we generally knew who the lay leaders were (While we had them - the positions were often vacant as people transferred). There was a pointed lack of interest most of the time - our Sunday services were followed by Sunday drill sets, so most of us worshipped with our eyelids shut. When we were on missions and the drills let up, our little underwater congregations grew to 3-4 people each service. I never heard of bringing communion underway before - the times I attended Catholic service, it was the Bible readings for that Sunday, a few thoughts from the lay leader, and maybe some of the standard things you would talk about at a religious meeting.
3/27/2012 12:22 AM
We had them--or at least they were listed in the POD on both my boats. Never attended them, but then again, I haven't gone to Confession since I was but a lowly nub not even out of Prototype.
And after five Westpacs and the dozen or so years since I got out, I'm not sure I have enough time left to confess all my sins now, anyway.
3/27/2012 2:14 AM
1 לַכֹּ֖ל זְמָ֑ן וְעֵ֥ת לְכָל־חֵ֖פֶץ תַּ֥חַת הַשָּׁמָֽיִם׃
2 עֵ֥ת לָלֶ֖דֶת וְעֵ֣ת לָמ֑וּת עֵ֣ת לָטַ֔עַת וְעֵ֖ת לַעֲקֹ֥ור נָטֽוּעַ׃
3 עֵ֤ת לַהֲרֹוג֙ וְעֵ֣ת לִרְפֹּ֔וא עֵ֥ת לִפְרֹ֖וץ וְעֵ֥ת לִבְנֹֽות׃
4 עֵ֤ת לִבְכֹּות֙ וְעֵ֣ת לִשְׂחֹ֔וק עֵ֥ת סְפֹ֖וד וְעֵ֥ת רְקֹֽוד׃
5 עֵ֚ת לְהַשְׁלִ֣יךְ אֲבָנִ֔ים וְעֵ֖ת כְּנֹ֣וס אֲבָנִ֑ים עֵ֣ת לַחֲבֹ֔וק וְעֵ֖ת לִרְחֹ֥ק מֵחַבֵּֽק׃
6 עֵ֤ת לְבַקֵּשׁ֙ וְעֵ֣ת לְאַבֵּ֔ד עֵ֥ת לִשְׁמֹ֖ור וְעֵ֥ת לְהַשְׁלִֽיךְ׃
7 עֵ֤ת לִקְרֹ֙ועַ֙ וְעֵ֣ת לִתְפֹּ֔ור עֵ֥ת לַחֲשֹׁ֖ות וְעֵ֥ת לְדַבֵּֽר׃
8 עֵ֤ת לֶֽאֱהֹב֙ וְעֵ֣ת לִשְׂנֹ֔א עֵ֥ת מִלְחָמָ֖ה וְעֵ֥ת שָׁלֹֽום׃
1
There is an appointed time for everything, and a time for every affair under the heavens.
2
A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to uproot the plant.
3
A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to tear down, and a time to build.
4
A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance.
5
A time to scatter stones, and a time to gather them; a time to embrace, and a time to be far from embraces.
6
A time to seek, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away.
7
A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to be silent, and a time to speak.
8
A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.
-- Ecclesiastes 3:1-8
3/27/2012 6:54 AM
I was always told that God couldn't hear us below 150 feet, therefore it was a waste to give up my Sunday morning.
I wouldn't touch my wang during that time though.
3/27/2012 8:26 AM
8 וָאֶשְׁמַ֞ע אֶת־קֹ֤ול אֲדֹנָי֙ אֹמֵ֔ר אֶת־מִ֥י אֶשְׁלַ֖ח וּמִ֣י יֵֽלֶךְ־לָ֑נוּ וָאֹמַ֖ר הִנְנִ֥י שְׁלָחֵֽנִי׃
9 וַיֹּ֕אמֶר לֵ֥ךְ וְאָמַרְתָּ֖ לָעָ֣ם הַזֶּ֑ה שִׁמְע֤וּ שָׁמֹ֙ועַ֙ וְאַל־תָּבִ֔ינוּ וּרְא֥וּ רָאֹ֖ו וְאַל־תֵּדָֽעוּ׃
10 הַשְׁמֵן֙ לֵב־הָעָ֣ם הַזֶּ֔ה וְאָזְנָ֥יו הַכְבֵּ֖ד וְעֵינָ֣יו הָשַׁ֑ע פֶּן־יִרְאֶ֨ה בְעֵינָ֜יו וּבְאָזְנָ֣יו יִשְׁמָ֗ע וּלְבָבֹ֥ו יָבִ֛ין וָשָׁ֖ב וְרָ֥פָא לֹֽו׃
8
Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? Who will go for us?" "Here I am," I said; "send me!"
9
And he replied: Go and say to this people:
Listen carefully, but you shall not understand!
Look intently, but you shall know nothing!
10
You are to make the heart of this people sluggish, to dull their ears and close their eyes;
Else their eyes will see, their ears hear, their heart understand, and they will turn and be healed.
-- Isaiah 6:8-10
(Much later...)
διὰ τοῦτο ἐν παραβολαῖς αὐτοῖς λαλῶ, ὅτι βλέποντες οὐ βλέπουσιν καὶ ἀκούοντες οὐκ ἀκούουσιν οὐδὲ συνίουσιν:
13
This is why I speak to them in parables, because 'they look but do not see and hear but do not listen or understand.'
καὶ ἀναπληροῦται αὐτοῖς ἡ προφητεία Ἠσαΐου ἡ λέγουσα, Ἀκοῇ ἀκούσετε καὶ οὐ μὴ συνῆτε, καὶ βλέποντες βλέψετε καὶ οὐ μὴ ἴδητε.
14
prophecy is fulfilled in them, which says: 'You shall indeed hear but not understand you shall indeed look but never see.
ἐπαχύνθη γὰρ ἡ καρδία τοῦ λαοῦ τούτου, καὶ τοῖς ὠσὶν βαρέως ἤκουσαν, καὶ τοὺς ὀφθαλμοὺς αὐτῶν ἐκάμμυσαν: μήποτε ἴδωσιν τοῖς ὀφθαλμοῖς καὶ τοῖς ὠσὶν ἀκούσωσιν καὶ τῇ καρδίᾳ συνῶσιν καὶ ἐπιστρέψωσιν, καὶ ἰάσομαι αὐτούς.
15
Gross is the heart of this people, they will hardly hear with their ears, they have closed their eyes, lest they see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and be converted, and I heal them.'
ὑμῶν δὲ μακάριοι οἱ ὀφθαλμοὶ ὅτι βλέπουσιν, καὶ τὰ ὦτα ὑμῶν ὅτι ἀκούουσιν.
16
"But blessed are your eyes, because they see, and your ears, because they hear.
ἀμὴν γὰρ λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι πολλοὶ προφῆται καὶ δίκαιοι ἐπεθύμησαν ἰδεῖν ἃ βλέπετε καὶ οὐκ εἶδαν, καὶ ἀκοῦσαι ἃ ἀκούετε καὶ οὐκ ἤκουσαν.
17
Amen, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.
Ὑμεῖς οὖν ἀκούσατε τὴν παραβολὴν τοῦ σπείραντος.
18
"Hear then the parable of the sower..."
-- Matthew 13:13-18
3/27/2012 10:09 AM
There are some really weird religious people on this blog...
3/27/2012 6:45 PM
Since I’m Druish they wouldn’t let me pray to The Schwartz in public underway.
3/27/2012 7:03 PM
Pretty sure there's something inherently weird about those of us who voluntarily subject ourselves to service onboard a sub.
3/27/2012 7:39 PM
Trolling is getting worse, we might need moderators soon.....
I believe in God and am a non-baptized Christan, but never attended a single Sunday service. Hmm....
3/27/2012 10:21 PM
Couldn't tell you anything that happened on board any particular sub or surface ship during the Viet Nam war- I enlisted in 1973, retired in 1994.
But, when the other (Catholic) guys in the division wanted to hang a rosary on an oxygen generator, I suppled the one that my wife sent me to sea with. Even though I'm not Catholic; she is. And the Catholic lay leader provided a second one for the other generator a week later. He had spares for those in need of spiritual assistance in saying the rosary.
As I said, Navy regs require services be held. Had a discussion once with a chaplain who was stationed on board a larger skimmer with a CO who wanted to drill all Sunday long in preparation for an OPPE, cancelling services in the process. Navy regs were brought to his attention- services were held.
3/28/2012 11:40 AM
We had Sunday services (Protestant and Catholic) in the Wardroom every Sunday morning while underway. If you were on watch, you could get a relief, but I personally never asked someone to suck up my watch and miss some valuable shut-eye for my religious needs.
I personally appreciated the services that were available and found it to be one of the few things that provided a relatively relaxed, equitable environment while at sea.
3/28/2012 12:47 PM
In response to "Dixon" the Anon poster 03/26/12 at 7:04 - I served in BARBEL, SEADRAGON, TREPANG, GATO, and DANIEL WEBSTER. All held lay services on Sundays at sea. When it was permitted, the Catholic Lay Leader was commission a Eucharistic Minister and had communion at those services. Normally, there is a custom on this blog not to specifically ID the subs we served in to "protect the innocent".
3/28/2012 1:33 PM
The S-girl in Pearl Harbor around 1980 was USS Skate (SSN-578), typically moored at S-1A or between the finger piers when I first reported on board. Later we typically moored at S-13, right behind the RADCON barge and across the street from the SUBSASE gym and Beeman's. When underway on Sundays, services were scheduled in the POD and held in the wardroom. The holding of and attendance at such services depended a great deal on the CO and lay leader(s) of the respective boat.
3/28/2012 3:08 PM
We've had services available for several faiths on all 5 of the boats I've served on. All were pretty sparsely attended, but they were available and the POD was kept clear for Sunday morning worship services.
Just for Dixon, here are the hulls:638,670,730B,771,& 772 (Spanning 1990-2009).
Since I'm Jewish, there were no formal services available as I was frequently the only practicing Jew onboard. My lay leader kit was handed down from my Father (who is retired USAF) but I rarely used it. Instead I used a simple servicemen's Jewish prayerbook underway augmented with a Pentateuch and other books from my personal library.
I would sometimes get together with the 1 or 2 (I think 3 was our highest population at any one time) other Jews for specific holidays, but honestly that was pretty rare as I was the most practicing Jew on every boat (and I'm no rebbe).
The fasts were particularly painful underway but I managed, and the crew was very supportive overall (albeit very inquisitive) when I'd eat Matzah on the messdecks during Passover.
I was able to use the TAHS for private time during High Holidays worship underway but usually would just use my rack for privacy (AOW does rounds). The COBs & CO's I've had were very supportive when inport to shift duty rotations or allow for special liberty to attend worship services when I asked (which I didn't do often - usually only for major holidays).
I happily took Easter Sunday, Xmas (or Xmas eve) duty, Ash Wednesday, etc to return the favor.
While I've definitely seen some anti-Semitism underway, the vast majority of my Submarine brothers have been very supportive of my faith.
3/28/2012 5:52 PM
Here's one for those on the boats who may be worshipping...let's call it, to be gentlemanly...a false idol:
1 וַֽיְהִי֙ בָּעֵ֣ת הַהִ֔וא וַיֵּ֥רֶד יְהוּדָ֖ה מֵאֵ֣ת אֶחָ֑יו וַיֵּ֛ט עַד־אִ֥ישׁ עֲדֻלָּמִ֖י וּשְׁמֹ֥ו חִירָֽה׃
2 וַיַּרְא־שָׁ֧ם יְהוּדָ֛ה בַּת־אִ֥ישׁ כְּנַעֲנִ֖י וּשְׁמֹ֣ו שׁ֑וּעַ וַיִּקָּחֶ֖הָ וַיָּבֹ֥א אֵלֶֽיהָ׃
3 וַתַּ֖הַר וַתֵּ֣לֶד בֵּ֑ן וַיִּקְרָ֥א אֶת־שְׁמֹ֖ו עֵֽר׃
4 וַתַּ֥הַר עֹ֖וד וַתֵּ֣לֶד בֵּ֑ן וַתִּקְרָ֥א אֶת־שְׁמֹ֖ו אֹונָֽן׃
5 וַתֹּ֤סֶף עֹוד֙ וַתֵּ֣לֶד בֵּ֔ן וַתִּקְרָ֥א אֶת־שְׁמֹ֖ו שֵׁלָ֑ה וְהָיָ֥ה בִכְזִ֖יב בְּלִדְתָּ֥הּ אֹתֹֽו׃
6 וַיִּקַּ֧ח יְהוּדָ֛ה אִשָּׁ֖ה לְעֵ֣ר בְּכֹורֹ֑ו וּשְׁמָ֖הּ תָּמָֽר׃
7 וַיְהִ֗י עֵ֚ר בְּכֹ֣ור יְהוּדָ֔ה רַ֖ע בְּעֵינֵ֣י יְהוָ֑ה וַיְמִתֵ֖הוּ יְהוָֽה׃
8 וַיֹּ֤אמֶר יְהוּדָה֙ לְאֹונָ֔ן בֹּ֛א אֶל־אֵ֥שֶׁת אָחִ֖יךָ וְיַבֵּ֣ם אֹתָ֑הּ וְהָקֵ֥ם זֶ֖רַע לְאָחִֽיךָ׃
9 וַיֵּ֣דַע אֹונָ֔ן כִּ֛י לֹּ֥א לֹ֖ו יִהְיֶ֣ה הַזָּ֑רַע וְהָיָ֞ה אִם־בָּ֨א אֶל־אֵ֤שֶׁת אָחִיו֙ וְשִׁחֵ֣ת אַ֔רְצָה לְבִלְתִּ֥י נְתָן־זֶ֖רַע לְאָחִֽיו׃
10 וַיֵּ֛רַע בְּעֵינֵ֥י יְהוָ֖ה אֲשֶׁ֣ר עָשָׂ֑ה וַיָּ֖מֶת גַּם־אֹתֹֽו׃
In the English? Sorry, but this one is a look-up.
-- Genesis 38:1-10
Be well.
-- The One
3/28/2012 7:37 PM
Perhaps the most astounding evidence of religious services on Cold War nuc subs, Dixon, is provvided by USS Seawolf (SSN 575), which not only had a pipe organ (ask any qualified crewman), but long after that space had been surperceded for SINs (isn't that ironic) still refered to the space as the "prayer room".
And, if you ever watched a certain 1954 motion picture, you can probably guess what may have helped inspire Admiral Rickover to allow such religious allocations..
3/28/2012 7:41 PM
Seawolf also had the "Bitch in the Box" to announce casualties.
3/29/2012 7:33 AM
Anon @ 3/28 5:52...
Also 638, '85-89...
How they hangin', Whalemate?
3/29/2012 7:58 AM
How's the pink VW Bug hangin'?
3/29/2012 12:06 PM
"We had Sunday services (Protestant and Catholic) in the Wardroom every Sunday morning while underway. If you were on watch, you could get a relief, but I personally never asked someone to suck up my watch and miss some valuable shut-eye for my religious needs.
I personally appreciated the services that were available and found it to be one of the few things that provided a relatively relaxed, equitable environment while at sea."
That was my attitude as well. If I was off watch, then I tried to attend -- if quals, sleep and drills allowed for it. I never wanted to rack out someone, or keep someone awake who was off watch to let me go to services.
And I was on the 696 and 715.
3/29/2012 12:36 PM
Anon @ 7:33 AM
Regarding Seawolf's "Bitch in the Box", readers can listen to SSN 575 "Circuit EY" casualty announcements here.
3/29/2012 7:47 PM
Anon @ 3/29, 12:06 -
Dude, that was totally my "lesson" car - as in, I learned the lesson about not buying a car from the used car lot right outside the gate...after EAOS, took it to the local VW dealer to prep it for a x-country trip -- he recommended buying flowers & burying it instead..
On the plus side, I got more p***y in that car than any since...and they weren't ALL Bremelos & Grotapotamuses....
3/30/2012 8:07 AM
So, 728G Chief of the Boat was relieved today, according to navy.mil
Thoughts??
3/30/2012 6:00 PM
http://www.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=66192. So if Brett Prince was relieving Berry in a few weeks anyway, is firing him now at the end of his tour a scapegoat maneuver so the CO doesn't also get the axe?
My thoughts are: I am glad to see people held accountable instead of soft-landing them. A formal DFC means Berry is done, and should be submitting a Fleet Reserve request ASAP. Did he go to Mast as well?
I also wonder that truly nobody else in the command triad knew about it?!? Hard to believe the CO/XO were completely in the dark on this, and if that IS the case, what does it say about their level of engagement and relationship with the CPO Mess...
3/30/2012 7:37 PM
Chris is not perfect, and would do some things different if he had the chance, but the article tells about 10% of the story. This was a big mess, but the end result is that a good COB who I have a lot of respect for is taking lumps. He would be the first to say he deserves some of them, but I don't know that he deserved them all.
3/30/2012 7:49 PM
Anon @ 7:49 - By all means, share so we aren't just going off the published 10%...
3/30/2012 8:13 PM
So talk about 2-star fucking mafia! Prince back to a KB boat? COB to SQDN CMC back to COB? If your not moving up get the fuck out to let others have the chance. Oh, but that would mean leaving KB and we couldn't let that happen. LOSER.
Too bad for Berry...a permanent non-KB good guy. Guess as he doesn't know where the bodies are buried he's out. KB will continue to fester with the same T-hull inbreeding that makes it a miserable cesspool. Looking fwd to this years' bang bus.
3/30/2012 9:33 PM
"Hazing?" Was this some chicken shit PC BS, or was this really something worthy of being fired over? BTW, name calling, taping, greasing, pinning, drinking, etc. all fall under the chicken shit, PC BS category.
3/30/2012 10:32 PM
(something something "lay leaders" something something "women on subs" something something "AMIRITE?! HA HA HA!")
3/31/2012 9:05 AM
One boat I was one actually had enough people (and someone who wanted to lead it) to do a Buddhist service. They burned incense and everything
3/31/2012 9:08 AM
8:33 anon--
SSGN's are considered major command, so the COB will always be a 2nd tour guy. COB-SQDN-COB rotation in this case is perfectly legitimate.
3/31/2012 10:11 AM
Rumor of another COB going down in Bangor. Details to follow.
3/31/2012 10:28 AM
"SSGN's are considered major command, so the COB will always be a 2nd tour guy. COB-SQDN-COB rotation in this case is perfectly legitimate."
So that makes the Florida firing worse...the chucklehead should have known better. Especially in today's environment.
Today's Navy...A Global Force for...something?
3/31/2012 10:33 AM
Today's Navy...A Global Force for...something?
Homos and chicks with "Kagan face."
3/31/2012 10:39 AM
10:11 anon:
"SSGN's are considered major command, so the COB will always be a 2nd tour guy. COB-SQDN-COB rotation in this case is perfectly legitimate."
Fair enough, but how do you defend the COB-NSSC CMC-COB-SQDRN-COB rotation? This will be Prince's third go-around.
4/02/2012 3:29 PM
While I believe in nothing higher up, I have respect for people that do. If they don't try to convert me and respect the fact that I don't care about their god, we can get along. Tolerance of diversity is lacking in submariners. It is just more evidence that a majority of submariners are childish. If we truly are the best the navy has to offer, I am worried about the trend we are setting. Are we just a bunch of sexist homophobes? I always thought that submariners were the adults of the navy. Just one submarine veteran's opinion.
4/03/2012 10:26 AM
Submariner's have always been a little childish and have that fraternity type atmosphere. We as a group do not fit within society's guidlines of "normal". After all, what "normal" person would willingly go into a steel tube, stay underwater for months at a time while working under stress? No normal person that I know of.
As for being the "best the navy has to offer", maybe it's time to give yourself a kiss. I can think of a lot more people better tahn myself in the Navy...SEAL's and fighter pilots quickly come to mind.
All that said, I wouldn't have done it any other way. 29 years ago to the month I climbed down the hatch of my first boat in my dress whites and a guy bit into my butt and claimed "fresh meat"! We have been friends ever since!
Retired ANAV
4/03/2012 8:35 PM
We took care of our religious needs by going wheels up and hunting bubbleheads!
4/11/2012 6:06 PM
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